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When one inch of rain causes 90 Million gallons of combined sewage overflow to occur -- The Clinton River jumps from 8ft to 15 ft -- in under 12 hours.
That water goes to Lake St Clair and the Detroit River -- where folks are sand bagging tonight 4/29/2019 in the canals.
Ecoli and bacteria from CSO events sticks to sand, which is just ground up rocks, rough on its surface, perfect for bacteria to stick to, and stay moist.
Pick your news source - plenty exist.
OH well, that will be the lesson to those developers long ago. Do not built your properties so close to the water, rivers, lakes and canals.
Flooding in Jefferson Chalmers neighborhood
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/homeowners-fill-sandbags-to-protect-from-flooding-in-jefferson-chalmers-neighborhood
The flooding has nothing to do with the current rain. This has nothing to do with the inputs into the Clinton River.
This is a seiche.
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/seiche.html
The lakes are way higher than usual due to the winter weather in Northern Michigan. When the lakes are this high and the wind blows in from the north east., That corner of Detroit floods. When the winds are out of the due east The western shore of Lake Erie in Monroe floods.
Seiche is part of it, not all. Something made the lakes high, eh. Weather
https://twitter.com/DetroitWaterDep/status/1123217978093449217
The sewage overflow hugs the coastline with the wind. Example :
https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....connection.jpg
https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....e-st-clair.jpg
https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....wk-monster.jpg
Thanks Ndavies... some of the Great Lakes are reaching some record highs not seen in 40 years....
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ls/2831489002/
https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/04/g...gh-summer.html
https://wbckfm.com/lake-superior-water-levels/
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
And exacerbating the problem is that just a few years before we were dealing with record low lakes levels. In those years many lake front property owners neglected to maintain or rebuild their seawalls and even built homes in low lying areas without them. Most of what has been built on the banks of Lake St. Clair was once nothing more than swamp. It's been drained, filled in and walled off to keep the water at bay, but fighting Mother Nature is a never ended battle.
That said, when the vast majority of Metro Detroit residents rely on the Detroit River for drinking water, controlling untreated sewage runoff into the system needs to be a top priority.
But, but, but, but, but, but ----- It is allowed ----- by law --- via Permit
The sewage overflow underwent a ""treatment"" of some screening,
and a spritz of a bit of sodium hypochlorite as it raged in a dynamic flow , underground in the GWK Retention basin, released into Warren
via the Red Run Drain.
The lakes were this high in 1986. Every time I look at the radar, its raining in Michigan. I think you will see flooding in Detroit, Grosse Pointes and St Clair Shores because the lakes continue to rise until mid summer.
It's episodic. Before that, I remember the sandbagging of '73 throughout SCS, GP, Detroit. People then blamed the USCAE for manipulating the lake levels to avoid dredging expenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by bibs
I remember those barriers wells. The home owners were told not to remove them. Guess, what! They were blocking their view of the water so they removed them. My dad told me today that water is over on Jefferson in St Clair Shoes at the Blue Goose.
Interesting... I rode my bike over to the SCS library yesterday at 11 & Jefferson, just 1/2 mile south of the Blue Goose, and not a drop of water! But then again the Blue Goose is right next to the water, and the Civic Center is over 1000 ft. from the lake.
Add Harrison Township to the mix. Friends of ours have been fighting with a neighbor to fix his seawall for a year. It is now taking the one lane road with it. Water is inches from street level.
Clinton River folks affected as well
https://www.wxyz.com/news/businesses..._6wM910IqqG_7w
Most modern suburban homes built after 1990 will have built in sump pumps. Other homes built before 1990 will not have sump pumps. It's about time to get a sump pump unless you want to deal with a moldly sweaty flooded basement.
In Rochester Hills, my sump pump is running about every 90 seconds. At least I hope it still is!
Clinton River measured by USGS gauges in Fraser on Garfield
now shows 16 ft, double what it was just a few days ago,
and that is Stormwater ENTERING the river , flowing out to Lake St Clair,
not seiche, not wind. The wind keeps it close to the coastline......
https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....linton16ft.jpg
It also had its 3rd consecutive week of Sewage Overflow events.
An overflow means it went somewhere "else" from where it was
original intended to go , designed to go normally.
https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....weekinarow.jpg
From The Eastside Community Network @ECNDetroit Facebook page:
"Neighbors! Our friends and neighbors in D4 are facing an historic flood that happens every ten years and is threatening their homes and property. They NEED OUR HELP!!Please join D4 staff and the city of Detroit in helping fill sandbags for houses in the Jefferson Chalmers neighborhood. Volunteers are asked to commit time between 2 and 8pm, working in 2 hour shifts in the AB Ford parking lot. The Army Corps will be joining in these efforts, providing training on proper filling of sandbags and building of a reliable barrier.
For more information, please text Letty Azar, D4 District Manager at 313-236-3518.
Thank you in advance for either showing up or spreading the word."
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...iKfHh0KrLswrAw
Dearborn Heights
https://scontent.fdet1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...81&oe=5D6A2679
Attachment 38082 Windmill Pointe Park
Quote:
Originally Posted by O3H
Even at today's high flow rate of 5150 cfs [[Cubic feet per second) the Clinton River is dumping into Lake St. Clair less than 1/2 of 1% of what the St. Clair River does on average. The runoff into the Clinton may be responsible for flooding along the river itself, but it isn't what is causing the flooding issues for lake front residents.
I'm sure with enough investment we can even out the flow by requiring more retention basins, permeable surfaces, etc but the Clinton River is the natural drainage basin for almost all of the Northern Detroit suburbs.The idea that we can somehow fight gravity over a multi county area and not send this water into Lake St. Clair is slightly odd.
What is ODD and WHACKED and just plain STUPID
-- is mixing the rain water with sewage from peoples toilets !!!!
All across the country they have a true SEWER system for the toilets,
which flows to a full blown actual Waste Water Treatment Plant that expels - wait for it - drinkable water - potable water
All across the country they have true STORMWATER DRAINS for the rain falling from the sky and they route it to the rivers and lakes.
Places like OAKLAND COUNTY thought they would go dirt bagger cheap,
only 1 pipe for BOTH and absolutely NO true Waste Water Treatment Plant. How about that for a fact. A retention basin doesn't discharge drinking water, never has, never will. It merely attempts to hold it [[retain) until it OVERFLOWS and then all hell breaks loose, as it goes into the rivers and lakes. A total of 14 Communities involved in this mayhem.
This is NOT a WWTP -- but toilet water flows right to it.
https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....7/imgp0042.jpg
Macomb County has its own little itty bitty problem to deal with
- in addition to what Oakland dumps into it and flows to the lake
https://www.wxyz.com/homepage-showca...s-to-spend-30m
YEP, those sand bags will be contaminated with sewage.
Where will they dump the smelly, sewage infested bags when they are done ????????
Rain, causing pain for may in metro Detroit
https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/..._content=wdiv4
I've been listening to flood reports on WWJ radio this morning. They kept reporting that the Southfield was being bailed but they weren't making any progress because the storm drain system was saturated!
Yikes! :eek:
Nothing quite like waiting 72 hours + for the DEQ to release public info.
Perhaps people want to kayak or canoe the Clinton River in MtClemens
this weekend when the sun comes out, some water recreation ??
https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....illionmark.jpg
The International Association for Great Lakes Research [[IAGLR)
is a scientific organization made up of researchers.
IAGLR article , as seen September 13, 2011 :
~ “””over a half-century worth of sediments of significant polluted
sediments appears to be preserved below depths that have been remediated.
When these polluted sediments are stirred up by storm and boat activity,
they might be carried out to Lake St. Clair where much of the Detroit area
receives their drinking water and about a third of all Great Lakes fish are caught“” ~
Fortunately most of Southfield is in the Rouge River system....Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
https://www.bloomfieldtwp.org/PDFFor...atersheds.aspx
Ahhh the Rouge, high class sewage spilled onto the lower elevations
https://www.wxyz.com/news/millions-o...to-rouge-river
The 2-plus million gallons dumped into various parts
of the lower and middle Rouge River in late February,
or the more than 6 million dumped in March ....
As this flows downriver, it meets the Detroit River,
and that’s where we have intakes for the GLWA.
That drinking water is directly affected
SO much for our grand water here in the D. Does ANYONE have a visual map showing these flows, and water areas near the homes, etc. Areas at risk of flooding regularly as we see? Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by O3H
As all the public governments go GIS - the maps become available
Keep in mind there is no UBER map of extreme high detail, with FEMA elevation zones and houses -- that is scalable to the entire state.
From Macomb
https://publicworks.macombgov.org/PublicWorks-drainmaps
Via other sources
https://redrundrain.files.wordpress....e-st-clair.jpg
Two separate problems here.
1. Lake levels: Lake levels vary from year to year. The Great Lakes Survey [[since merged with Coast and Geodetic Survey) used to provide a time graph with lake levels for each of the Great Lakes going back into the 1880s. Not sure what caused the fluctuation, but there was about a five foot variance between lows and highs over time. 1950 was a very low year, while 1952 was a veritable flood. The 1930s and the late 1950s were very low years. There is no "cycle" just random variances. I wonder if that graph is still produced.
2. Clinton River watershed. This is a completely unrelated topic compared to lake levels. Yes, the sanitary sewers need to be segregated from the storm sewers though the idea of combined sewers was an accepted sanitary engineering practice at the time the sewers were developed. Even without the sewers, the Clinton River is often too full or too dry as we cycle through too much or too little rain and snow. I can remember a bad drought my last year in Rochester High School [[56-57) when the wits would write on the bathroom stalls "flush the toilet, Utica needs the water".
Oakland County has had for decades [[50 years) COURT ORDERED lake levels -- meaning flow on the Clinton River is highly, highly controlled.
Spring rise up and Fall draw down are selfish laws for the Lake people .
All tooo often the Clinton Rivers turns into mudville. The water heats up forcing the TAXPAYER paid yearly trout stocking effort to move out of the river, downstream to cooler waters and Lake St Clair. Every year they put trout in [[fish in a barrel concept), rape folks for the license, and the fish leave. About as stupid a taxpayer subsidized plan as there ever was. Been going on for 20 years, put fish, where no fish are, repeat, get fish license money, repeat. Pretty idiotic. Take a hint, the fish don't like it.
Fish and sewage don't mix. Oakland County also created the 12TownsDrain sewage overflow project. BUT taxpayers don't make a fuss, because they are apathetic, and like money being wasted for stupid concepts. There is a reason few people fish at Freedom Hill out of the Red Run Drain.
Sun's out - go get some sewage fish out of the Clinton in MtClemens
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dy0SFCaXQAAUdcS.jpg
Some folks familiar with Google Earth can give this a shot :
https://hazards.fema.gov/femaportal/...WMSkmzdownload
Multiple reasons for this situation.
A few random thoughts...
Drain tiles on farmland. This land used to absorb and hold the rainwater, but now it flows into the tiles and into the nearest drain, creek, etc. almost immediately. That's a lot of runoff in a short period of time.
One of the biggest areas that drain into the Great Lakes is the huge area south of James/Hudson Bay that drains into Lake Superior. If that area gets heavy snowfall, the Great Lakes will get a lot of runoff, eventually.
Parking lots and roofs - those old fields now drain very quickly into the storm drain system.
We'll be glad here in Las Vegas to take any extra water you might have off'n your hands. Lake Mead is steady this spring but expected to drop a bit more during the summer.
Thinking Infrastructure
-- https://wdet.org/posts/2019/05/07/88...cture-problem/