the best hospital in the world?
Please, share your experiences.
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the best hospital in the world?
Please, share your experiences.
Hardly,
Beaumont Hospital and Dr. Aaron Berman, MD Killed My Mother!
truck nutz!
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/4...ge00063pm0.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by izzyindetroit
I see that suburban type vehicle all the time on Woodward. Driving up and down, sitting on the side of the road, weekdays and weekends. Does anyone know the story, I have never seen anything like that before.
Are they good and treated my friend VERY well? Sure. Nicest hospital suites I've ever been in [[spent a New Year's Eve there for a friend - it was a bit scary for a minute, but everything ended up well and there was 100% recovery).
Best in the world? If I've got some messed rare disease, send me to the Mayo clinic or something. But good, yes. So is DMC, so in balance Henry Ford. We actually have some pretty good hospitals. Each has their own specialties.
*your experience may vary*
I have had several experiences at Beaumont, both as a patient and as the son of a patient. With each experience, I ran into the same issues. The Docs were condescending and rude, arrogant beyond belief. On two different occasions, I [[for myself or my mother) requested second opinions, and both times [[docs in diff specialties) the doctors actually said they recommend AGAINST getting a second opinion. The cardiologist actually told my mother that he couldn't work with her that way. [[She went to Henry Ford for a second opinion, the doc their did had a different opinion, she went with him and was fine)
Interestingly enough - There was a study / poll done about the best hospital systems in America. Beaumont did not make the top 10 - However, Henry Ford Health Systems made the top 5. Go Detroit!
Henry Ford Health employs its doctors directly. They are not building up private businesses of thir own. Its just a different animal. More research and science-oriented than a community hospital like Beaumont. I wouldn't voluntarily go to beaumont and never, ever to oakwood - another community hospital.
Henry Ford Hospital is outstanding.
Can't speak for Beaumont... but St. John main hospital has vastly improved in the last 20 years [[all my family members have gone there). The new 7 story Van Elsander Pavilion is outstanding... with beautiful private suites [[where family members are allowed to stay overnight if the need arises)... and I can't say enough about the friendly doctors/nurses there. Mom was seriously ill, and they took wonderful care of her... and she's still alive and kicking...
Henry Ford in the burbs is good, but Beaumont is better. Best demographics of any metro hospital [[doctors want to work there and patients choose it above others).
Henry Ford in New Center; I would not go unless there was a specific specialist only available at that location. Even then, I'd consider my options.
Again, Beaumont is a hospital by a bunch of private businesspeople who are doctors. They need a place to send really sick patients. The hospital measures success by largely financial measures. HFHS [[for which I do not work and no one I know works there) is a scientific center of excellence. The Hospital employs the doctors to its standards. This is the same model that Mayo Clinic operates under.
However, many people I know just don't want to be in the city. or it's too far. A community hospital is the best choice for them.
I wonder if they got the furniture from Art Van :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
I have no idea, but their radio ads are freaking annoying.
Post script re: Henry Ford Hospital [[freom wikipedia):
"Henry Ford Hospital is a 903 bed hospital. Only physicians of the closed practice, Henry Ford Medical Group, can admit to Henry Ford Hospital. There are more than 1,000 physicians and scientists in the Henry Ford Medical Group. This model is the same model used at the Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins Hospital and the Cleveland Clinic."
Well, if it's in Wikipedia, it must be true!Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
"The same model" does not mean "the same quality."
Wayne County Community College is based on "the same model" as Harvard.
Fact is, Beaumont is a better hospital for 95% of procedures.
The guy is a scammer. On another site, he posted he was doing this until Beaumont paid him to go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbroch
no, wc3d is not on anything like the same model as harvard. [[that is a wonderfully inept comparison)Quote:
Originally Posted by crawford
Fact is? by whose measure? Beaumont's PR department?
Beaumont has the luxury to send away patients without insurance. They actually make it clear that if you don't have insurance they will stabilize you and send you somewhere that will treat you [[Read: DMC). For that reason alone I will not go to Beaumont.Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
Beaumont does not have the expertise in many fields so some of the claims that theya re better for 95% of procedures is not rooted in fact.
I've had two surgeries at Beaumont: tonsillectomy and knee surgery. Both experiences were just fine.
Mother had a number of heart procedures at Beaumont, all went very well.
Crawford... your mind is stuck in a groove based on your line of work [[finding taco stand locations in Latin American countries)... so everything you post here goes down to... "location location location"....Quote:
Originally Posted by crawford
Using demographics as a barometer for determining best hospitals is absurd.... but your logic must have a chink in its' armor... otherwise you would have chosen Crittendon [[even better demographics) over Beaumont! :eek:
The woman who died was old already and died on the surgery table, not because of malpractice, but because she just gave up. But some people just don't want their mothers to go and so they need to scapegoat someone, eh? The guy needs to get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbroch
As for me and my family, we dislike Beaumont. We prefer The Henry Ford and St. John's.
I am moving to Belleville shortly. Any suggestions for hospitals out in that area? I need several types of specialists and don't want to be travelling all over southeast Michigan to get my care. Is U of M the best place?
By the way...I had a problem with Beaumont 20 yrs ago or so when my mother was first being treated for a heart condition. But since then, I have been treated there myself twice and have been extremely happy with the care. My problem did not relate to the doctors...they were great...but with the nursing care back then. However, they seem to have improved greatly.
I don't know about side-by-side comparison as far as research and science, but I was involved in a research study at Beaumont regarding heart medications, and it was a very good experience.
Best in Detroit...one of the best nationwide. Born there. Only place I would go for serious issues.
Beaumont is a fantastic hospital, if you're looking for a post-op infection. That was the reason behind them losing their JCHCO [[www.jointcommission.org) accreditation. I was pretty surprised that I didn't see any media coverage about this. Paging Dr. George ;) They were reviewed again after losing it, and didn't get it back. Then I heard recently they now have the accreditation again after an additional review.
As for Rosa Kashat's family, I sincerely hope these tortured souls will accept that the hospital investigated & apologized for the accident. I hope for their sake they start to move on [[she passed over 2 years ago). Beaumont wrote the family a letter explaining that it had never happened to anyone else before, said they were deeply sorry, and took steps to make sure it never happens again. She was morbidly obese, 75 years old, suffering from cardio disease, and fell onto her stomach & hip when they tried to maneuver her on the procedure table. It was an accident. Nothing can bring his mother back. I hope she rests in peace.
I had a loved one die in Beaumont, and wasn't happy with the level of care. Had they been more on their toes with the 'big picture' of his health history instead of cutting his care into a million pieces for the 'specialists', he wouldn't have died that day. But his day still would have come eventually. When he passed, I wasn't consumed with blame, just grief. I still am, and that was years ago.
Anyone know if Fieger is still representing the family on this? If the situation was clearly the hospital's negligence and not just an accident, then why hasn't this been resolved in court? Why does the family need the court of public opinion instead?
Because that dude in the van is batshit crazy?Quote:
Originally Posted by AroundTown
BIBox, you cut right to the chase.
More than one vehicle drives around with that on it. More than one guy doing it as well. Both guys look the same, must be brothers. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bearinabox
Then Rosa Kashat has two idiot, scammer sons? Great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stosh
Beaumont from my understanding is also a teaching hospital in that the Drs are doing their residencies...
my sister worked there as a nurse for about 8-10 months before moving back to Kalamazoo to work...
a co-worker went there for over a year trying to get his knee fixed and they kept rotating him around the orthopaedic department and he never got it taken care of. one DR came in looked at his chart, told him to take some motrin poked his finger along side the kneecap ONCE and said, 'yep, ill write you for some 800s. 3 a day should be fine.' when he finally came to MY orthopod he had an MRI done, and then arthroscopic to repair a torn MCL. hes back to running and playing soccer which he hadnt been able to do in something like 15 months...
i dont down live that way so i dont expect to have to go there for anything...
Beaumont's become sloppy and overrated. My family used it all the time until about two years ago when they short-changed my dad's heart problems. My mom then got him into the heart program at Henry Ford - night and day difference in treatment and results.
All I know is I rushed in with a mangled arm which included a cut artery. They stitched me up and sent me out the door in under an hour, I was very impressed.
I worked at Beaumont for several years in the 80's. At that time the care was comparable to DMC but the attitude of the staff was very "North of 8 Mile". I chose to leave and return to work with real people who treated patients not demographics.
Have been happy with HFHS for years for my own and my family's care, they can't be beat. They are not in it for the buck. Blowmont has tried to hard with their PR.
DO YOU HAVE A BEAUMONT DOCTOR? sick of it..........
I see ads on craig's list offering $15 an hour to carry signs protesting Dr. Berman and Beaumont.
Thomson Reuters:
http://www.100tophospitals.com/winners/hswinners.aspx
not a beaumont in the list. Michigan leads the nation with 11 in the top 100Quote:
THE 100 TOP HOSPITALS®: Health System Quality/Efficiency BENCHMARKS
Health SystemCity, StateAdvocate Health CareOak Brook, ILCatholic Healthcare PartnersCincinnati, OHHealth Alliance of Greater CincinnatiCincinnati, OHHealthEast Care SystemSaint Paul, MNHenry Ford Health SystemDetroit, MIKettering Health NetworkDayton, OHOhioHealthColumbus, OHPrime Healthcare Services, Inc.Victorville, CATrinity HealthNovi, MIUniversity Hospitals Health SystemsCleveland, OH
Why does everything have to be about suburbs vs. city?Quote:
Originally Posted by pkbroch
I don't use the term often, but it applies to that dump. Do I have a personal issue with that place, you bet! My wife worked there as an ER Nurse, and told me stories that curl your hair. When she was injured on the job, they denied her workman's comp claim and put her through hell trying to collect. Just a sleazy money grubbing operation all the way. :mad:
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawford
Citation needed. The fact is that HFHS is better at most procedures and has some of the best physicians in the world. You seem to have an issue with it just because it is within the Detroit city limits. Independent rankings indicate it is one of the top hospitals in the whole country.
I had a colleague who is a cardiac patient who always goes there for anything. She swears it's the best place around & is pleased with her care there. My sister in law works there & doesn't share my colleague's opinion.
Do tell, Uncle Frank?Quote:
Originally Posted by unclefrank
Well I was leaving my apartment in Midtown less than a mile from Henry Ford and DMC and a pregnant woman crashed into the corner of my car. She was going into labor and was driving to Royal Oak to go to Beaumont because she didn't want to have her child in Detroit. Clearly Beaumont is much better than anywhere else in the world. LOL.
Untrue for most procedures. Stitches or the flu do not require globally renowned specialists, they require skilled people who care, in comfortable environment.Quote:
Originally Posted by drjeff
Whether or not it Henry Ford has some of the best in the world is irrelevent to the VAST majority of patients.
Beaumont serves upscale, privately insured demographics, with spacious facilities in a welcoming environment. Henry Ford is overburdened with poor folks on Medicaid, leading to slapdash service and care for all. Its emergency room is a nightmare.
And frankly, I find it hard to believe that "some of the best doctors in the world" would choose to work in an inner-city Detroit hospital affiliated with a lower-ranking medical school, as opposed to Harvard-Mass General, Cornell-Columbia Presbyterian, Cedars-Sinai, etc. In fact, I find it hard to believe that a typical doctor, living in Bloomfield Hills or someplace similar, would prefer a longer commute to a dangerous, barren neighborhood, all for the privilege of serving angry, poor people who can't pay.
Indeed, I do. Location is absolutely key to hospital environment and patient care. And Henry Ford isn't just within city limits; it's smack-dab in the poorest part of the city.Quote:
Originally Posted by drjeff
Ratings A. Based on specialized procedures, and B. For Henry Ford network, not the Detroit hospital.Quote:
Originally Posted by drjeff
There may be an affiliated doctor or two that can do things that can't be done at Beaumont. And I'm sure these procedures are mostly conducted in the suburban branches, where the patients and their doctors actually live. As previously mentioned, I would highly recommend Henry Ford, just not the inner-city operation.
More rankings
http://health.usnews.com/health/best-hospitals
My hospital is St. Joseph Mercy in Ypsilanti.
Had two surgeries, several procedures done there.
Absolutely wonderful hospital, great staff, doctors and surgeons.
Clean and professional.
Heartily recommend to that person residing in Belleville.
You still have yet to post anything factual to support your claim. If Beaumont is sooooo great as you claim a quick google search should give yout tons of evidence to support your claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by crawford
Until then you may as well just admit that you are posting strictly based upon your opinion.
Wow. This thread confirms that it hasn't been "just me" all of these years. My list:
#1 son almost died on the able at 16 months after being over anesthetized during a simple procedure.
Wife screwed up her knee real good. After waiting 5 hours for xrays [[yes, that would be until 5 in the morning), they put her in an air cast, perscribed Vicodin, told her it was just a sprang and sent us on our way with a referral. Lucky, that referral paid off because she wound up having massive knee reconstruction and was in a hip cast for 3 months.
Wife was told during a blood donation that issues were occuring with her blood. She went to Beaumont and was seen by a rude and unprofessional Doctor who told her she had psorsis of the liver and that she very well may have to have a transplant [[she was 23 at the time). He also informed her that she was "grossly overweight" to boot. We got a second opinion down at Henry Ford which reflected that she only had a fatty liver and that everything was fine with that and her weight. That's about two months of my life I'll never get back.
Jefferson78: Thank you for that recommendation. Do you perhaps know of a general physician [[family doctor) or internist, orthopedic surgeon and cardiologist in the area that work out of that hospital? I need all three.
Thanks!
Our family doctor is a Dr. Jason Kahn who works out of Ypsilanti, the orthopedic surgeon who operated on my shoulder is a Dr. Michael Fitzsimmons who operates out of St. Joe Mercy.
Both are highly recommended. I did have back surgery there but cannot recall the surgeons name at the moment.
There are many great orthopedic surgeons there, all specializing in different areas of the body.
I'm sorry I do not know of a cardiologist but I'm sure you should be able to locate one who works at that hospital.
Good Luck to you.
I have never used Beaumont, but my parents have. It is a perfectly good hospital [[although no one I know of thinks it is the best in the country) but it suffers from the usual problem of hospitals that basically have an unrelated bunch of physicians working adjacently but not together. My parents have used that hospital because it is where some of their doctors practice.
The care didn't seem very well coordinated. There didn't appear to be adequate communication between doctors on a case, and they don't necessarily seem to pay much attention to an individual patients needs. My sister who is a hospital social worker [[at another hospital) had to keep checking on them to make sure they were being cared for appropriately.
Second, there is endless log-rolling, with doctors calling in other doctors for seemingly pointless consultations, apparently with the intent of increasing the number of billable incidents. This annoys the patients, who have no idea who all these people are, or why they are there, and they didn't really seem to have the time to figure out what the situation actually was. Patients would be more annoyed if they actually had to pay the bills--in fact it did annoy my mother quite a lot on behalf of Medicare and the taxpayers of America.
I am not saying that makes it a bad hospital. It is not. It is a kind of typical hospital in those respects. My mother had a great doctor there for her hip replacement, and has had an excellent result. However I have to say that in my opinion you really have to credit the surgeon more than the hospital.
The reason HFHS is likely to outperform Beaumont is not that they have better doctors; for all I know they have worse doctors. It is because their model of managing a health practice is superior, and a good team has a lot of advantages over a bunch of even great individuals. And in most cases good health care delivery is a matter of consistency rather than spectacular performance.
Thank you very much, Jefferson78!
Quote:
Originally Posted by crawford
You clearly don't know what you're talking about. First off, the emergency room and hospital that treat the most uninsured and/or medicaid patients in Detroit is the DMC/Receiving Hospital. Secondly, HFHS is not affiliated with any medical school. The DMC is associated with WSU School of Medicine, which produces, by far, the most physicians who practice in the state of Michigan. That includes the guy who was just named chair of Medicine at U of M. Before you start talking out of your ass, at least make an attempt to know the subject.
That's telling him/her Drjeff.
Facts trump BS every time.
No, it is not.
they are all good hospitals.
why are you even making an issue over this.
worry about more important things. really?
Actually, according to Beaumont's ad campaign, this is THE MOST IMPORTANT DECISION YOU'LL MAKE IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE ;)
[[Cue: creepy bell music)
hello...it's an advertisement.Quote:
Originally Posted by AroundTown
are we also going to have a topic on why Bounty really isnt the "quicker picker upper"?
Nine posts and two of them are complaints about ongoing discussion of real topics - and a third is the mocking post above attemting to reduce an honest discussion to an exercise in absurdity:
In the Border Crossing discussion you wrote:
"AHHHHHH! Stop it!
carry the passport!
is it too much to ask?
Really?
it is about 1/8th of an inch thick.
$45?
if you need the money that bad, please let me know, and I will pay your fare, just like I am paying the taxes to keep your stupid schools afloat! "
Earlier in the Beaumont discussion you wrote:
"they are all good hospitals.
why are you even making an issue over this.
worry about more important things. really?"
In fact, there are many bad hospitals and many that aren't very important - Beaumont may be one of those. This is a good discussion that you don't have to read. Why are you so interested in whether anyone is wasting time - just don't read it.
Not saying it is the best hospital in the world. I'm sure I have heard good and bad stories about every hospital in the metro area. I can only speak from my own experience, at Botsford Hospital. . I have had several prosedures, and recent knee replacement surgery [[on both knees at the same time ). My surgeons work out of Botsford and it raised some eyebrows when I told people I was having it done there. I couldn't be happier with the outcome or my treatment there. I liked the smaller, more community feel of the place, and received excellent care, from doctors, nurses and rehab staff. I was in there for 2 weeks so I had care from many different departemnts and staff members. They have a wonderful woman who is their " joint replacement care coordinator" who went above and beyond to make sure all was good with me. Just my 2 cents worth.
Izzy,
I am so sorry to hear that. I saw a vehicle in W. Bloomfiled on Thursday with that on it. I recently lost my mother at Henry Ford West Bloomfiled. Totally unexpected. So, when I saw the SUV [[I think), my heart sunk because I know what I just went through.
Keep me in your prayers and I will keep you in mind.
Claire
Quote:
Originally Posted by izzyindetroit
Sorry to hear about that Claire...
My experience was the total opposite at St. John. The staff rushed mom to the ICU at lightning speed when her blood pressure dropped to 45/35 when an infection set in after colon cancer surgery. They told us that she likely wouldn't make the night. Her surgeon [[from 4 days prior) rushed to the hospital at midnight on a Saturday night to comfort the family.
Fortunately mom did make it... and is still with us...
Beaumont sucks big time! I am talking past and present. My parents both ended up with detached retinas. After surgery at Beaumont Royal Oak, my Mom ended up legally blind in both eyes and my Dad lost permanent vision in one. Dad is now gone, but new surgical Lazer techniques developed by St Johns restored a good degree of vision to Mom after 15 years of virtual blindness.
Recently Beaumont bought out Bonsecour Hospital in GP. An elderly friend had a bad fall at the local GP Krogers. The SOB's transferred her to Royal Oak for treatment. They did virtually nothing for her but the bill was large. She is a widow and has no children. It was not easy for friends and neighbors to visit. Then they transferred her to a Beaumont owned nursing home for rehab. Didn't do much there either.
More recently, [[within the past year) my husband had an accident and needed 4 stitches on his eyebrow. We were in and out in an hour ... the bill $2200 dollars. It will be a cold day in hell if I pay those blood suckers
When the annoying Beaumont voice asks "Do you have a Beaumont doctor?", we usually reply to the radio or television, "If you do, get another doctor!"
In my Mom's care we have found Beaumont to be condescending, rushed, dismissive, uncommunicative, unavailable, and, at times, incompetent.
In 2003 they discharged Mom with poor instructions, 24 hours after a lumbar laminectomy, the crowning insult to over thirty years of inadequate care.
When Mom moved in with us last year we left the Beaumont system and switched Mom's health care providers to the U-M Turner Geriatric Center, where we have been very satisfied.
Whether the event is an outpatient appointment, a simple test, or a long hospital stay, I believe every patient needs an advocate right there with them, pen and paper in hand. Write down what they do, when they do it, and ask questions. A good provider won't be defensive; in fact, they will appreciate the concern. Good medical care is a partnership.
Oh, I see. So you're a deadbeat?Quote:
Originally Posted by sumas
well, this former e.m.t. has been to beaumont in royal oak numerous times, and i've been more than satisfied with the service. i've found the facilities to be modern and accommodating, and the staff - from the receptionists to the physicians - to be clear, helpful, and understanding. after spending years in the health care field, i know what to look for.
and, just to make sure i wasn't deluded, i did a little google search and found this: "Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oak was ranked in eight categories in the 2008 U.S. News & World Report 'Best Hospitals' lists." that sounds like a lot of support for my personal observations and experiences.
different hospitals achieve success in different areas; teaching hospitals are generally excellent, while some hospitals are innovative in various regimens related to treatment of the sick and injured, and also maintenance of well-being. burn units, neonatal care, sports medicine, alternative treatments, cancer treatment, physical therapy...there can be no one best place.
but, again - i have enough experience in the field - and in beaumont's facility - to give it my full-fledged endorsement.
This isn't necessarily about Beaumont but I was wondering why emergency rooms have waiting rooms. Ambulances have sirens and lights so a patient with an emergency doesn't have to be held up by red lights and traffic yet when they get to the emergency room they're expected to wait?
That makes no sense to me. Sincerely.
Why would you not pay your Bill? Is this how Detroit rises?
Well you just explained the flaws of a single-payer health care system in a nutshell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
Jimaz: They have waiting rooms because people are seen in order by the urgency of their problem. If a cardiac or stroke patient comes in by ambulance, someone with a minor cut, or the flu will have to wait. This is why most ER's have a triage nurse when you come in the door. It's not like a doctor's office where you are seen in order.
The problem is that those without health insurance are using the ER's like a doctor's office for all their complaints...some very minor, because there is no where else to go. Recently my 7 year old grandson was a passenger in a car that was involved in a car accident. They were afraid of a back injury. He had to wait over an hour on a backboard with a neck brace on because the ER was so busy, and it was late at night when they do not have as many x-ray techs as during the day. But he survived it and was fine.
I have worked for doctors and in a hospital, as well as being a patient multiple times. Part of the problem today is that we live in a fast moving world with cell phones, ipods, fast food, ATM's, instant food, instant coffee, instant communication and we expect everything to happen in a blink of an eye. Medical care...good medical care, takes time. I don't mind waiting to be seen as long as the care I receive after waiting is good care.
When I was a heart patient in Beaumont, I had excellent care. They kept me informed of everything they were doing, what to expect every step, and how my recovery should go. I have been there many times since for tests, and never had a very long wait. They have always been courteous, efficient and caring.
That wasn't the case in a recent visit I experienced. Patients who were casually joking and ambulatory were admitted long before an immobilized, elderly woman in severe crying pain.Quote:
They have waiting rooms because people are seen in order by the urgency of their problem.
I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt though. Perhaps there were minor staff available for the casual patients but no specialized staff available qualified to handle the problems of the more severely suffering patient. Maybe this was a staff scheduling problem.
Again, in fairness, this wasn't at Beaumont.
The conflict between ambulance urgency and emergency room complacency still haunts me. Waiting rooms are strategically built into an emergency room facility. Ambulance traffic regulations are also strategically built into the code. Yet they seem to be in conflict.
Maybe there's an improvement that can be made here.
I understand this is an emotionally charged political issue right now, but even if it weren't I'd ask the same question:
How can that final emergency-room waiting-room stop-light be bypassed after the ambulance has successfully bypassed all others up to that point?
No politics - just genuine practicality.
I had a work-related injury to a finger joint, and I knew something was wrong, so I had them do an x-ray and the tech, who probably isn't qualified to flip a burger at McD's told me nothing was wrong. A half-blind idiot could look at my knuckle and see a difference. At least I didn't have to pay for that lazy hack to sleepwalk through the motions and bill my employer his idiocy. Those people have coasted on Oakland County residents' insurance for so long they have the place on autopilot.
God help anyone who shows up there with a life-threatening situation. I had way better treatment at Henry Ford when I lived up the street on Trumbull and had a truly life-threatening infection. The staff at HF were totally attentive and caring and brought me back to normalcy in a few days and I give them total credit. Beaumont can suck it.