Hotels in Downtown Detroit

I've notice some hotel brands that never settle in Downtown, yet. But are currently building in the suburbs, with expansions in near future in further suburbs.

With so many boutique hotels opening, is that all we need to expect downtown? National brands are not jumping on the band wagon.

Would love to see a Hyatt Place, W Hotel, Ritz Carlton etc. Not the sister of the brand, but the actual hotel. I know the market determines that, but come on. It's cities smaller than Detroit who has these national brands in their downtown.

What's Detroit's issue?

Detroit is not a tourist destination and it simply doesn't have the corporate presence or volume of conventions that other cities have to justify a ton of hotel rooms.

Nashville, for comparison, has 15-20 high rise hotels that have been recently completed, under construction or in the works.

Amazon HQ2 coming to town, of course, would change that overnight.

W, Ritz Carleton, and Westin are all owned by Marriott. It really doesn’t matter a whole lot which sign is on the door.

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Originally Posted by 48202

W, Ritz Carleton, and Westin are all owned by Marriott. It really doesn’t matter a whole lot which sign is on the door.

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It does matter more than you're implying.

Each of those "signs on the door" offer varying levels of services and amenities to their guests.

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Originally Posted by 48202

W, Ritz Carleton, and Westin are all owned by Marriott. It really doesn’t matter a whole lot which sign is on the door.

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I think it's more about variety, one of my friends always go to a W hotel specifically when visiting cities. This could be reason why he doesn't visit Detroit often. He probably has to settle with other Marriott brands.

Each brands has its style, which makes me believe the reason with having so many under one hotel brand.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

It does matter more than you're implying.

Each of those "signs on the door" offer varying levels of services and amenities to their guests.

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My thoughts exactly, different strokes for different folks.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

I think it's more about variety, one of my friends always go to a W hotel specifically when visiting cities. This could be reason why he doesn't visit Detroit often. He probably has to settle with other Marriott brands.

Each brands has its style, which makes me believe the reason with having so many under one hotel brand.

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It's one thing to be loyal to a brand when you're in town, but to choose not to visit that city because your brand of hotel isn't there would be pretty lame.

Still waiting to see what hotel brand the LCA goes with. An Hyatt Recency will be perfect. Also, the Book Tower Building..easily a W hotel.

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Originally Posted by 401don

It's one thing to be loyal to a brand when you're in town, but to choose not to visit that city because your brand of hotel isn't there would be pretty lame.

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He still comes, but still brings up the topic of "Have y'all gotten a W yet"? He really be disappointed, and settle for whatever. I told him about ALoft, he said ok I guess. That's just his thing.

I think hotels are going to boom downtown soon. You're already seeing a new hotel district being built currently with Shinola, Wurlizter, and metropolitan hotels all going up. Although those are all boutique they signal a growing need for hospitality downtown. LCA is going to further drive that up with more events downtown, and all the pistons games coming here.

The Book tower will have a hotel in it, we already know that. I would expect an announcement within the next 6 months or so on that considering it's going to ramp up with construction soon.

LCA hotel i would imagine would be mentioned soon too. That land is ready for groundbreaking.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

I've notice some hotel brands that never settle in Downtown, yet. But are currently building in the suburbs, with expansions in near future in further suburbs.

With so many boutique hotels opening, is that all we need to expect downtown? National brands are not jumping on the band wagon.

Would love to see a Hyatt Place, W Hotel, Ritz Carlton etc. Not the sister of the brand, but the actual hotel. I know the market determines that, but come on. It's cities smaller than Detroit who has these national brands in their downtown.

What's Detroit's issue?

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There are no Ritz Carltons or W Hotels anywhere in metro Detroit. But W Hotels are a subsidiary of Starwood [[which is now owned by Marriott). Starwood's marquee brand is Westin, and there is obviously one of those in downtown Detroit [[and a couple in suburban Detroit). I doubt there will ever be a W Hotel in suburban Detroit, since those are almost exclusively located in the central city. I would not be surprised to see a W hotel in Detroit within the next five years.

Also, I think you're confusing Hyatt Place with the more upscale marquee Hyatt brand. Hyatt Place is the budget brand for the Hyatt chain, which there are several in suburban Detroit [[these were previously branded as AmeriSuites). There is no Hyatt Regency or other upmarket Hyatt brand in metro Detroit.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

I think it's more about variety, one of my friends always go to a W hotel specifically when visiting cities. This could be reason why he doesn't visit Detroit often. He probably has to settle with other Marriott brands.

Each brands has its style, which makes me believe the reason with having so many under one hotel brand.

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I've stayed in quite a few Ws. The accommodations kind of suck, especially at the U.S. locations, but the bars are usually pretty good. The Aloft at the David Whitney has a vibe that is very close to the W experience. It's closer to the W than any other Aloft I've been to, so I have a feeling that Starwood/Marriott will eventually convert it to a W.

What does it take to land an Hyatt Recency, Ritz Carlton, and a W Hotel to Downtown Detroit? How do they determine that, it has to be something in works. How can you ignore what's happening downtown and not want to join?

Build it and they will come, should be the motto. Being that none of those brands are in the region is very upsetting and disappointing. I just don't understand it, that's all.

Another thing comes in mind, why doesn't our convention center has an hotel like most cities does. We, as a city just seem to do stuff differently. Or is just decades of bad city planning? Just weird.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

Another thing comes in mind, why doesn't our convention center has an hotel like most cities does. We, as a city just seem to do stuff differently. Or is just decades of bad city planning? Just weird.

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You obviously haven't paid too much attention lately. Cobo has a hotel literally across the street and the Suburban Collection Showplace has an on-site hotel as well.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Detroit is not a tourist destination and it simply doesn't have the corporate presence or volume of conventions that other cities have to justify a ton of hotel rooms.

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That is untrue. And I hear over and over again if we want to land better/bigger sports and convention events, we need more hotel space in both the city and suburbs.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

Another thing comes in mind, why doesn't our convention center has an hotel like most cities does. We, as a city just seem to do stuff differently. Or is just decades of bad city planning? Just weird.

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For cobo the stand in is the ren cen Marriott. When the jla replacement studies were done the site could not support a hotel due to ren cen 1000+ room. It’s a drag on entire cbd daily room avg. the Westin keeps rooms empty so as to not drag down rates. Frankly there are too many of the wrong type of rooms not spread across enough properties downtown.

This keeps new work from coming online.

Now the boutiques are being built, but the last new build with a major flag was the Hilton garden inn for the super bowl...over a decade ago. Cleveland, Milwaukee, and Indianapolis all have added several properties [[new and reuse) in their downtowns and suburbs over the same period.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

What does it take to land an Hyatt Recency, Ritz Carlton, and a W Hotel to Downtown Detroit? How do they determine that, it has to be something in works. How can you ignore what's happening downtown and not want to join?

Build it and they will come, should be the motto. Being that none of those brands are in the region is very upsetting and disappointing. I just don't understand it, that's all.

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I think the "build a better mousetrap" theory of marketing went out of favor about 60 years ago. You build a hotel, open a store, make a product or service based on unfulfilled need and downtown Detroit does not currently have nearly enough corporate business to support the upper tier of business hotels you are suggesting.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

Still waiting to see what hotel brand the LCA goes with. An Hyatt Recency will be perfect. Also, the Book Tower Building..easily a W hotel.

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For sure, Book Tower with its downtown location on Washington Boulevard would make an ideal location. Has anyone figured out what Matty is doing [[or planning to do) with Michigan Central Station? I once heard he paid $80k for the site.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

That is untrue. And I hear over and over again if we want to land better/bigger sports and convention events, we need more hotel space in both the city and suburbs.

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It's definitely true.

Detroit is simply not a place people come to in droves for vacation, and most of the automotive-related companies and facilities in the region are in the suburbs [[I should mention, the travel budgets for automotive companies aren't nearly as lavish as the budgets tech and oil companies have). Also, aside from the Auto Show, Detroit really isn't a destination for large conventions.

If the Auto Industry wasn't humming along, we'd probably lose more hotel rooms and name brands, such as when the Ritz Carlton and Hyatt Regency left during Autopocalypse.

The idea that we don't get convention events and a ton of tourism because of the lack of hotel rooms defies logic. If the demand was there in the first place, the hotel chains would be trampling over themselves to ensure there was supply to meet it [[again, see Nashville for example).

I am pretty psyched about Detroit's hospitality business. Our supply of rooms has gone up and up and up, while both occupancy and average room rates have steadily climbed. People visiting metro Detroit now prefer to stay downtown, with so many things to do. Even people visiting the city used to stay in the suburbs. We also have a very nice selection of types of rooms, styles of service, old vs new construction, and prices. You can stay basic and cheap, or go old school comfort, modern chic, etc.

I think we will still see a number of large hotel projects come to the city, some of which might well be major upscale brands. High-end hotels such as Ritz-Carlton make decisions based on average room rates; while on an upward trend, downtown Detroit hotel rooms are not yet averaging $275/night. When they do, we will be very appealing to chains like that.

One other thing to keep in mind is that most major hotels built in any city nowadays are part of a larger project. So, you can't correctly analyze the market by just saying, "Oh, we don't have a Ritz-Carlton." Getting a Ritz-Carlton will occur when the right project comes along for them, with the right development partners at the right location at the right time.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

It's definitely true.

Detroit is simply not a place people come to in droves for vacation, and most of the automotive-related companies and facilities in the region are in the suburbs [[I should mention, the travel budgets for automotive companies aren't nearly as lavish as the budgets tech and oil companies have). Also, aside from the Auto Show, Detroit really isn't a destination for large conventions.

If the Auto Industry wasn't humming along, we'd probably lose more hotel rooms and name brands, such as when the Ritz Carlton and Hyatt Regency left during Autopocalypse.

The idea that we don't get convention events and a ton of tourism because of the lack of hotel rooms defies logic. If the demand was there in the first place, the hotel chains would be trampling over themselves to ensure there was supply to meet it [[again, see Nashville for example).

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But we do have tourists and those tourists need places to stay. Not every tourist is carrying a fanny pack taking pictures. They're rural Michiganders coming in to see a sports game, Ontarians coming to see a show, Europeans drawn to the "Detroit" buzzword, or to my amazement an Arizona couple who, yes, decided to come to Detroit for vacation. And they need places to say.

Why are we not a destination? Because we're not Miami or San Diego? Ok, that's probably based on weather. We're lacking in hotel space and that's a problem when the Visitors and Convention Bureau is pitching Detroit.

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But we do have tourists and those tourists need places to stay. Not every tourist is carrying a fanny pack taking pictures. They're rural Michiganders coming in to see a sports game, Ontarians coming to see a show, Europeans drawn to the "Detroit" buzzword, or to my amazement an Arizona couple who, yes, decided to come to Detroit for vacation. And they need places to say.

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The tourism you describe is obviously not high volume nor profitable enough for the hotel chains.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Why are we not a destination? Because we're not Miami or San Diego? Ok, that's probably based on weather.

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Chicago, DC and NYC are some of the top tourist destinations in the country in spite of the weather. In Canada, Vancouver and Toronto are also huge tourist destinations. So no, you got it wrong there.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

The tourism you describe is obviously not high volume nor profitable enough for the hotel chains.



Chicago, DC and NYC are some of the top tourist destinations in the country in spite of the weather. In Canada, Vancouver and Toronto are also huge tourist destinations. So no, you got it wrong there.

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And they all have great hotel space for big conventions!

Of course we don't have hordes of Asians and Euros coming to Detroit. But we still need hotel space.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

But we still need hotel space.

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We do have hotel space, and it's what the market feels is enough.

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Originally Posted by 401don

Detroit does not currently have nearly enough corporate business to support the upper tier of business hotels you are suggesting.

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Based on my experience traveling to Detroit for work during the summer, the city might be able to support another major hotel downtown soon. I stayed at the Westin Book-Cadillac and the rates were in the $200-$250/night range. The rates were similar at the other hotels in the downtown area, and is similar to what I have paid traveling to Charlotte for business. Charlotte has a higher concentration of hotels downtown than does Detroit.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Based on my experience traveling to Detroit for work during the summer, the city might be able to support another major hotel downtown soon. I stayed at the Westin Book-Cadillac and the rates were in the $200-$250/night range. The rates were similar at the other hotels in the downtown area, and is similar to what I have paid traveling to Charlotte for business. Charlotte has a higher concentration of hotels downtown than does Detroit.

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Charlotte is also a major finance / banking center. It's not the best comparison to Detroit.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Chicago, DC and NYC are some of the top tourist destinations in the country in spite of the weather. In Canada, Vancouver and Toronto are also huge tourist destinations. So no, you got it wrong there.

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Actually, Detroit misses out on a ton of convention business because of the lack of rooms downtown. The lack of hotel space likely depresses Detroit's tourism numbers.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Charlotte is also a major finance / banking center. It's not the best comparison to Detroit.

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Of course I know that, I traveled there weekly for the better part of a year.

The point is that Detroit is able to support similar rates per night as Charlotte. Or at least it was when I was traveling to Detroit.

I think Detroit is and will do fine. We have several new hotels coming on line soon, they have already been discussed. The hotels we do have are different than the usual "chains" that every other city, Nashville, Indy ect.
Also no one has mentioned the 3,4 Windsor, area casinos hotels, and the new foundation hotel,El Moore, ect, that most cities don't have. When the several new ones come online, The hudson site, the Book Tower, LCA , Shinola ,the New West Elm ect, Detroit will stand out with it's unique hotels and not the usual typical chain hotel every other city has. Sometimes it's better to stand out and be different.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Of course I know that, I traveled there weekly for the better part of a year.

The point is that Detroit is able to support similar rates per night as Charlotte. Or at least it was when I was traveling to Detroit.

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The thing is, Charlotte's hotels are able to support those rates despite the slew of competition.

One can argue the Westin, given the lack of competing hotels, is gouging the Detroit market and their numbers aren't really a true measure of what the rates would be if Detroit were a normal market.

This is more of an indication of how hotels struggle on weekends in the dead of winter but I just booked the downtown Courtyard Jan. 20 on Priceline for 79 bucks. This is a Sat. night when both the auto show and a Wings game are on.

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Originally Posted by 401don

This is more of an indication of how hotels struggle on weekends in the dead of winter but I just booked the downtown Courtyard Jan. 20 on Priceline for 79 bucks. This is a Sat. night when both the auto show and a Wings game are on.

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Yeah, that's a darn good rate for a hotel in the heart of a major US city.

I recently had to pay a higher rate than that in a suburb of Oklahoma City!

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Originally Posted by 313WX

The thing is, Charlotte's hotels are able to support those rates despite the slew of competition.

One can argue the Westin, given the lack of competing hotels, is gouging the Detroit market and their numbers aren't really a true measure of what the rates would be if Detroit were a normal market.

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Westin's rates were in line with the other properties. Westin, Hilton and Marriott all have at least 2 properties in downtown Detroit, although only Westin and Marriott have a flagship brand property. However, my point is not that Detroit is poised to become Charlotte or Chicago overnight. But it can probably support another hotel, if not now then in the near future.

Enjoy these while you can folks! I for one am not complaining. Neither are my family or friends that come to visit. Also you have to remember, the climate and market has changed a lot in recent years with Airbnb's online.
I've have friends that come here and stay at Airbnb's.
When I travel stateside and abroad I stay in Airbnb's

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Originally Posted by 401don

This is more of an indication of how hotels struggle on weekends in the dead of winter but I just booked the downtown Courtyard Jan. 20 on Priceline for 79 bucks. This is a Sat. night when both the auto show and a Wings game are on.

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You would not be able to get anything near that price a week before during the media preview. Detroit's prices fluctuate wildly when events are in town due to the limited space. For instance, you really can't find a hotel room during Memorial Day weekend in Detroit for less than $400/night, if you can find one at all.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Westin's rates were in line with the other properties. Westin, Hilton and Marriott all have at least 2 properties in downtown Detroit, although only Westin and Marriott have a flagship brand property. However, my point is not that Detroit is poised to become Charlotte or Chicago overnight. But it can probably support another hotel, if not now then in the near future.

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Just to correct you, Westin is a Marriott marquee [[thus one in the same). It's the only upscale Marriott marquee downtown.

The only other upscale hotel downtown is the Crowne Plaza. Hilton doesn't even have an upscale marquee downtown.


What you say about other properties charging similar rates is interesting. The fact that lower class hotels are charging the same rates as the Westin is not the sign of a healthy hotel market [[again, seems more like price gouging to me).

For the record, it really bugs me that these huge hotels buy up other hotels under their "Brand".

It reminds me when GM brought up several other brands and ran them into the ground, now they been sold off.

I can't believe when they buy up these other hotels they have the "best" intentions , they just want to get rid of the competition, under the guise, oh we have upper and lower priced hotels, and "bring" them under their umbrella and under their family of hotels.

They sweeten the deal by giving "loyalty" points.

it's still just a Marriott they just bought out higher end hotel to make their company look better.

Big multi company chains bug me. I like more competition, it's better for the consumer, in most cases.

Just my thoughts

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Just to correct you, Westin is a Marriott marquee [[thus one in the same). It's the only upscale Marriott marquee downtown.

The only other upscale hotel downtown is the Crowne Plaza. Hilton doesn't even have an upscale marquee downtown.


What you say about other properties charging similar rates is interesting. The fact that lower class hotels are charging the same rates as the Westin is not the sign of a healthy hotel market [[again, seems more like price gouging to me).

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No, it is not. Starwood is owned by Marriott International, but the brands are not yet merged. Westin is the flagship brand of Starwood and Marriott is the flagship of the Marriott brand.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Actually, Detroit misses out on a ton of convention business because of the lack of rooms downtown. The lack of hotel space likely depresses Detroit's tourism numbers.

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My point exactly, if we build them more convention might come. And our chances of getting more hotels is likely.

Just two weeks ago, the lead essay in the NY Times travel section proclaimed Detroit as the nation's most exciting city. Detroit can be
promoted as the perfect site for a quick visit as prosperous folks fly from one coast to the other. Think about Greenfield village, the DIA and the
city's marvelous collection of architecture and public art.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

My point exactly, if we build them more convention might come. And our chances of getting more hotels is likely.

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Here's the bottom line. Hotels aren't going to pour a ton of money into a market if the demand is lacking.

The reason Detroit isn't attracting a ton of visitors is Detroit. Between its limited corporate presence, its negative reputation as a crime-ridden, bankrupt, post-apocalyptic hellhole and the fact that its downtown is relatively unimpressive in terms of attractions, it's no wonder that people overlook it for travel.

The lack of hotels hasn't stopped cities such as Seattle, Denver and Nashville from attracting a ton of conventions and tourists [[they're still suffering from room shortages, despite their hotel booms).

The Warriors came to town and their coach did not have great things to say about staying at MGM. http://www.knbr.com/2017/12/07/steve...ng-experience/.

They should certainly not stayed at MGM, as there are much better options, but a higher end hotel in the arena area would have been nice...

Beyond the specific hotels under active development, we are quite likely to have at least 4 major downtown hotels added sooner rather than later as part of/ adjacent to: LCA, Hudson's site, Fail Jail project and Joe Louis Arena site. Although not yet announced, there was ample speculation the LCA hotel will be high end [[IIRC they were saying JW Marriott).

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Although not yet announced, there was ample speculation the LCA hotel will be high end [[IIRC they were saying JW Marriott).

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I wouldn't be surprised at that. The J.W. Marriott in Indianapolis was built as part of the development spree surrounding Lucas Oil Stadium. If Indy can support a J.W. Marriott then surely Detroit can.

Bear in mind that the hotels in Indianapolis came about right before the bottom fell out with the economy and real estate bubble. A ton of overdevelopment was occurring in cities all across the country during the early / mid 2000s [[unfortunately, Detroit missed that boat).

What they don't tell you about Indianapolis' hotels is that they have trouble filling them to capacity for much of the year. In the post-recession era, you're not going to find hotel chains that will build capacity just for the sake of building capacity.

But even with those facts in mind, Indianapolis is also far more convention-friendly than Detroit. It has a ton of restaurants, bars and shopping near its convention center [[Cobo Hall, meanwhile, is sort of isolated from everything). Also, it has a more central location that is a shorter flight / drive distance from other major cities than Detroit.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

But even with those facts in mind, Indianapolis is also far more convention-friendly than Detroit. It has a ton of restaurants, bars and shopping near its convention center [[Cobo Hall, meanwhile, is sort of isolated from everything). Also, it has a more central location that is a shorter flight / drive distance from other major cities than Detroit.

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Ummmm you do remember since you left Detroit that we do have the People Mover..... Conventioneers and visitors to Detroit Hotels get their brochures in their hotel room extolling the virtues of riding the People Mover... the Detroit Convention & Visitors folks see to that. With convenient access around downtown... who wants to walk in the middle of winter, when the People Mover is just a block or so away from anywhere you want to go in downtown. It makes anywhere you want to go downtown so easy to get to.

Just because ridership is often times low... out of towners do like to use it... and during peak times at Cobo [[or on game/concert days elsewhere downtown)... it does get well used. Getting around from Cobo is more convenient than you make it out to be.....

313 I can't speak for Indianapolis as I have only briefly visited it [[and enjoyed myself). But I think Detroit is now a fairly convention-and-tourist friendly city. Our airport is top notch, our convention facilities are very good, there are tons of places to eat and drink and stay and things to do in Detroit [[and many more in metro Detroit). Many of the hang-ups people would have had about Detroit in the past are fixed or improving. Not all, to be sure. But that's true of every city. Oh, and we're much more affordable than many other similarly situated cities. There is a reason that we keep getting new hotels and the occupancy rates and average room rates increase every year: more people are visiting.

Indianapolis has the massive Circle Center just a block away from its Convention Center, and it's all connected by skywalks if one doesn't want to go out. Plus, it's within a few hours day drive from numerous major cities and a relatively quick flight from most destinations with it being virtually in the center of the country [[true, there's nothing Detroit can do to compete with these things).

Detroit's doing the right things to become an attractive place in the long-term. But my point is it still has a long ways to go before it can command the amenities that other cities have [[including their huge supply of hotels). And it's not going to happen overnight either given the slow pace in which Detroit's making its improvements.

EDIT: With respect to Indianapolis, the overall activity in their downtown is simply far more impressive. They have a ton of foot traffic and gridlocks are common on an average day. They have the most vibrant CBD in the Midwest outside of Chicago and possibly Minneapolis.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

313 I can't speak for Indianapolis as I have only briefly visited it [[and enjoyed myself). But I think Detroit is now a fairly convention-and-tourist friendly city. Our airport is top notch, our convention facilities are very good, there are tons of places to eat and drink and stay and things to do in Detroit [[and many more in metro Detroit). Many of the hang-ups people would have had about Detroit in the past are fixed or improving. Not all, to be sure. But that's true of every city. Oh, and we're much more affordable than many other similarly situated cities. There is a reason that we keep getting new hotels and the occupancy rates and average room rates increase every year: more people are visiting.

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Good point, at this time we can definitely support a few high end hotels and we are in a better position now more than ever. All of the things a major high end hotel looks for, Detroit can offer now. And all I'm saying is, WHERE ARE THE HOTELS AT, TIME IS NOW! We will see a W Hotel and a JW Marriot within 5 years. People are visiting more, one of the top 5 cities currently for best place to visit.

We deserve a few high end hotels DAMMIT!! Detroit is not that bad that we can't support a few of them. We might shock the world and break the bad cycle that we can't "Fill the rooms". We're in a different place now, in this city. Time is now.

So, what I'm hearing is "Detroit doesn't have attractions to get hotels in its downtown area". That right there, I don't understand. My list is too strong to say that's a lie.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

So, what I'm hearing is "Detroit doesn't have attractions to get hotels in its downtown area". That right there, I don't understand. My list is too strong to say that's a lie.

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No... I think it's more like you think we have a hotel problem with a few big brands missing downtown... but with each of the casinos having a 400 room hotel... the coming online of the West Book Cadillac, the Fort Shelby, the reopening of the Crowne Plaza [[with a 2nd potential tower to double the room counts to 800)... the opening of Aloft, The Fountain, the work-in-progress of the Wurlitzer, the Metropolitan and the Shinola... as well as others [[Hudson's, Fail-Jail, etc).... you see a problem, while others don't.

So we don't have a Ritz or a Hyatt... we have 1200 hotel rooms [[the casino hotels) that other cities don't have. So it kind of balances itself out.

if the jobs can be filled, build them. might as well. Get high schools teaching hospitality skills/business management.

according to sales execs within the district detroit, they claim a Live! hotel will be built in the district.
http://cordish.com/portfolio

This thread is an excellent ruler to measure just how far Detroit has come in a few years.

New hotels have come on line last year, this year, and are under construction as we read this with even more rumored to be breaking ground soon.

But, but... We don’t have the brand names people want.

First world problems like this are kinda nice to have for a change.

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Originally Posted by restoretheroar

according to sales execs within the district detroit, they claim a Live! hotel will be built in the district.
http://cordish.com/portfolio

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Whatever happened to the Virgin Hotel rumor to opening in near future in the District? Also, the JDV hotel planned in Brush Park?

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

if the jobs can be filled, build them. might as well.

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That is not the purpose for opening a hotel or any other type of business. The primary purpose of a business is not to provide jobs. The primary purpose of a business is to generate a profit for its owners. A hotel should never be built unless there is an unmet demand for hotel rooms. A hotel is not a jobs factory. Opening a hotel or any other type of business for the sole purpose of providing jobs is a guaranteed recipe for failure.

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Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

That is not the purpose for opening a hotel or any other type of business. The primary purpose of a business is not to provide jobs. The primary purpose of a business is to generate a profit for its owners. A hotel should never be built unless there is an unmet demand for hotel rooms. A hotel is not a jobs factory. Opening a hotel or any other type of business for the sole purpose of providing jobs is a guaranteed recipe for failure.

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This is a very important point, Sy. My favorite thing about Dan Gilbert's activity downtown in the last decade is that he is NOT running a charity. He intends to [[and does) make money on his businesses. For profit enterprises are the lasting ones, and they are the real generators of jobs, growth and progress. Charity, to be sure, has its place in our personal lives, to demonstrate with our own time and money a commitment to helping someone else. But if you want to fix a city, you need businesses to to be able to do business.

Yep. It's a very competitive business: heads-in-beds has to be met, or you close fast. Or there's the long slide downward from lack of staff and poor management towards closure!!

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Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

A hotel should never be built unless there is an unmet demand for hotel rooms. A hotel is not a jobs factory. Opening a hotel or any other type of business for the sole purpose of providing jobs is a guaranteed recipe for failure.

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Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

The primary purpose of a business is not to provide jobs. The primary purpose of a business is to generate a profit for its owners.

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Tell that to your politicians then...

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Tell that to your politicians then...

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I'm not really sure what you mean by that, it doesn't make much sense. But politicians are a big part of the problem. Most of them have never created, much less run a business in the private sector.

The purpose of any business is to generate wealth for the business owner[[s). Jobs are a means to help that happen. With more profit usually comes expansion of the business in order to generate more profit. This, in turn, creates a necessity for more jobs.

Nobody starts a business just to create jobs and lasts very long.

August 27 and 28, 2011: I was looking for a room downtown for cheap. I used Priceline and got the Hilton Garden Inn for $55. Both the Lions and Tigers were playing on the 27th.

July 4-8 2014: Priceline couldn't find me anything at all downtown for less than $150.

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Originally Posted by Király

August 27 and 28, 2011: I was looking for a room downtown for cheap. I used Priceline and got the Hilton Garden Inn for $55. Both the Lions and Tigers were playing on the 27th.

July 4-8 2014: Priceline couldn't find me anything at all downtown for less than $150.

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I experienced the same price increase over the same time period in Indianapolis. Price for a cheap hotel was around $85 in 2011 and the cheapest is now $135. Final four or a convention in town and the prices are stupid. I just drive straight though to Michigan to visit family to avoid the cost.

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Originally Posted by Király

August 27 and 28, 2011: I was looking for a room downtown for cheap. I used Priceline and got the Hilton Garden Inn for $55. Both the Lions and Tigers were playing on the 27th.

July 4-8 2014: Priceline couldn't find me anything at all downtown for less than $150.

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It's all relative to the demand of that particular weekend. Anytime a much anticipated event is downtown, the hotels generally charge two or more times their average rate. For instance, Memorial Weekend prices are always sky high, but that is a reflection of the demand built due to the Movement Festival. They know they can get it.

A look at next Saturday's Lions game [[a rarity to be played on Saturday) shows that nearly no bookings are available, and of what properties are available, they are asking astronomical rates. It appears as though a lot of people will be enjoying the entire night downtown.

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Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

I'm not really sure what you mean by that, it doesn't make much sense. But politicians are a big part of the problem. Most of them have never created, much less run a business in the private sector.

The purpose of any business is to generate wealth for the business owner[[s). Jobs are a means to help that happen. With more profit usually comes expansion of the business in order to generate more profit. This, in turn, creates a necessity for more jobs.

Nobody starts a business just to create jobs and lasts very long.

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It means that your politicians don't understand what you have written, that businesses are there to make money, not create jobs. So if what you say is accurate then politicians should stop selling tax subsidies to the public as job creators.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

It means that your politicians don't understand what you have written, that businesses are there to make money, not create jobs. So if what you say is accurate then politicians should stop selling tax subsidies to the public as job creators.

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Tax subsidies are often necessary in order to help a business expand, thus creating additional jobs as a bi-product. Nobody ever said that jobs are bad. What was said was that the first purpose of a business is not to create jobs. Another poster earlier in this thread said "if the jobs can be filled, build [more hotels]". A hotel should never be built merely to create jobs.

And they aren't "my" politicians. They are our politicians. They represent you just as much as they represent me. There is no need for divisiveness here.

Please people..20 years ago we had essentially four hotels downtown: Marriott in the REN Cen, Courtyard by Marriott [[both newly taken over by Marriott after GM purchased the buildings), Hotel Pontchartrain, and The Antheneum.

Fast forward 20 years and we have everything above plus three casino hotels at 400 rooms each, The Westin, Holiday Inn Express, A loft, Hilton Garden, The Foundation, with The Shinola, The Element by Westin, and The Siren all under construction. Not even mentioning whatever gets built at LCA, Hudson’s, etc. I think we are doing pretty damn good, given all that has occurred in the last 20 years. What is that like a 300%+ increase in hotels?

I do believe that downtown will have a Ritz and full-service Hyatt one day. Remember, less than 10 years ago we had them in Dearborn and they were there for decades so I’m sure we could support them again. I would also be willing to bet that we see more of the select service brands come downtown such as Residence Inn, Fairfield, Home2Suites, Homewood, Hampton, etc.

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Originally Posted by cmubryan

Please people..20 years ago we had essentially four hotels downtown: Marriott in the REN Cen, Courtyard by Marriott [[both newly taken over by Marriott after GM purchased the buildings), Hotel Pontchartrain, and The Antheneum.

Fast forward 20 years and we have everything above plus three casino hotels at 400 rooms each, The Westin, Holiday Inn Express, A loft, Hilton Garden, The Foundation, with The Shinola, The Element by Westin, and The Siren all under construction. Not even mentioning whatever gets built at LCA, Hudson’s, etc. I think we are doing pretty damn good, given all that has occurred in the last 20 years. What is that like a 300%+ increase in hotels?

I do believe that downtown will have a Ritz and full-service Hyatt one day. Remember, less than 10 years ago we had them in Dearborn and they were there for decades so I’m sure we could support them again. I would also be willing to bet that we see more of the select service brands come downtown such as Residence Inn, Fairfield, Home2Suites, Homewood, Hampton, etc.

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Forgot/didn't know that they are building an Element in Detroit. That will be the third SPG property in downtown Detroit once it is finished.

Detroit doesn't have any five star hotels, but I don't think those types of hotels are doing well even in the most visited cities. The Waldorf-Astoria in New York just recently closed for a several year renovation. I believe part of the renovation will be converting some of the hotel space to condo.

Also, this seems a little relevant: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/b...y-program.html

Many people left family behind when they left Detroit behind. Many people stay at hotels when they come and visit that family.

The rumors that Detroit doesn't have healthy tourism are about as reliable as when those people said Detroit only had a handful of millennials and businesses interested in moving downtown.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Many people left family behind when they left Detroit behind. Many people stay at hotels when they come and visit that family.

The rumors that Detroit doesn't have healthy tourism are about as reliable as when those people said Detroit only had a handful of millennials and businesses interested in moving downtown.

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Lol HA, good one! People need to go downtown more often. The ones that disagrees haven't been in Detroit since early 2000's probably. It's a whole new scene downtown from just 5 years ago.

Ok, we now know a few more "new" construction hotels are planned along with a few renovations and a second tower planned for one already established.

The District is planning two "new" construction hotels, one for sure will be high end. The other might be the LIVE! Hotel by Loews, where Hockey Town currently stands. The posh hotel planned next to LCA hopefully will be something along the lines of an Virgin Hotel, W Hotel, Hyatt..etc.

The soon to be demolished JLA will have a possible 30 story hotel built, another high end. Assuming some popular grand hotel will land there with stunning river views.

The beautiful Broderick Tower will definitely be high end, according to Dan Gilbert. And last but not least, the Crowne Plaza second tower addition. Hoping the new building is designed completing different but doesn't stick out too much from its current tower.

Exciting to see what type of new hotels make its debut in Detroit soon!

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Detroit doesn't have any five star hotels, but I don't think those types of hotels are doing well even in the most visited cities. The Waldorf-Astoria in New York just recently closed for a several year renovation. I believe part of the renovation will be converting some of the hotel space to condo.

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The Waldorf isn't being renovated because it wasn't doing well. It was purchased by a Chinese outfit for $2 billion, and they want to carve out some condos in the property, but it will remain a hotel.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

The beautiful Broderick Tower will definitely be high end, according to Dan Gilbert. And last but not least, the Crowne Plaza second tower addition. Hoping the new building is designed completing different but doesn't stick out too much from its current tower.

Exciting to see what type of new hotels make its debut in Detroit soon!

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The Broderick is residential FYI.

But yes, very excited to see the hotel boom in the city. The Metropolitan/Wurlitzer/Shinola block area will give the city its real first hotel block area.

Correction: Book Tower

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

The Waldorf isn't being renovated because it wasn't doing well. It was purchased by a Chinese outfit for $2 billion, and they want to carve out some condos in the property, but it will remain a hotel.

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With fewer hotel rooms because it wasn't performing well financially.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

With fewer hotel rooms because it wasn't performing well financially.

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Hotels are no different than retailers or automobiles in that collective consumer tastes & trends change--and the cycle seems to move ever faster with increased technology. Smaller, more intimate hotels, Airbnb, and minimal service, transient oriented apartment-like offerings are making substantial inroads into the traditional, full service hotel business model.


The Waldorf [[certainly before the refurbishment, at least) was on its way to becoming a dinosaur: garishly ornate, not particularly well-maintained, and appealing to an aging, shrinking market. Granted, in Manhattan, sheer demand will fill just about any hotel--but at a profitable rate? The name of the game in the hotel business [[especially with high-end properties) is Average Daily Rate and word-of-mouth reputation as much as it is occupancy. Unless a hotel is marketing toward stripped-down basics for a budget price, that raises the more complex question as to what amenities, decor, and location customers are willing to pay a premuim for.


The Waldorf's Park Avenue address is prime, but I'm not sure exactly how many young, wealthy tech-savvy customers are all that interested in gold-gilt, overstuffed purple couches and filet mignon. Historical & vintage properties have a niche, but given the wear & tear a hotel bears on a daily basis, it's difficult [[and mighty expensive) to maintain a property true to its original vibe.

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Originally Posted by Onthe405

Hotels are no different than retailers or automobiles in that collective consumer tastes & trends change--and the cycle seems to move ever faster with increased technology. Smaller, more intimate hotels, Airbnb, and minimal service, transient oriented apartment-like offerings are making substantial inroads into the traditional, full service hotel business model.


The Waldorf [[certainly before the refurbishment, at least) was on its way to becoming a dinosaur: garishly ornate, not particularly well-maintained, and appealing to an aging, shrinking market. Granted, in Manhattan, sheer demand will fill just about any hotel--but at a profitable rate? The name of the game in the hotel business [[particualrly with high-end properties) is Average Daily Rate and word-of-mouth reputation as much as it is occupancy. Unless a hotel is marketing toward stripped-down basics for a budget price, that raises the more complex question as to what amenities, decor, and location customers are willing to pay a premuim for.


The Waldorf's Park Avenue address is prime, but I'm not sure exactly how many young, wealthy tech-savvy customers are all that interested in gold-gilt, overstuffed purple couches and filet mignon. Historical & vintage properties have a niche, but given the wear & tear a hotel bears on a daily basis, it's difficult [[and mighty expensive) to maintain a property true to its original vibe.

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TBH, I don't even think the address is really "prime" anymore. I would say "iconic" is the better way to describe it. New York's wealthy elite aren't concentrated in Midtown East/Upper East Side the way they used to be. The establishment and billionaires still prefer that area but the new-money millionaire tech scene is more of a downtown thing.


Before it closed, my colleagues would often stay there when traveling to NYC because it is close to our office and the room rates were comparable to mid-market brands in Manhattan. I have never seen a place like the Mandarin Oriental in range of our company's per diem. They must've been struggling...

Boutique hotel in the Standard Accident Insurance Co. Building next to the Masonic in Cass Park. I'm seriously not trying to make this about Ilitch, but what I am saying is he doesn't own it and it was recently bought. Plans already in motion.


http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...elopment-plans