17 Story 'Collective on 5th' Ann Arbor Receives Criticism

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This proposed building just got through air rights approval. I hadn't heard of this development until recently, so I looked up the project overview that was published on MLive. The project reminds me of Dan Gilbert's development on the Monroe Block. It is similarly open at the base, and seems to include ample public space.

Then I started reading the comments on that page. While the Monroe Block proposal seems to be embraced by the public, the Ann Arbor development is facing a lot of disapproval.

The few who like the development are heavily ridiculed for their poor taste. There is worry that the building will not allow ample light to reach the street. The development is being called an "obscene abomination", "out of scale", and something that looks like it belongs in NYC or Detroit. The people seem to believe the city is out of touch with its citizens and should have demanded the inclusion of affordable housing in the project.

Most of the opposition seems to want Ann Arbor to retain what some describe as "small town charm". One person posted a picture of the Willitz in Birmingham as an example of the type of development that belongs in downtown Ann Arbor.

The entire article can be found here: http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/...-story_de.html

Totally inappropriate scale for a small Midwest college town. Chop it in half and I'm sure it would be fine with locals.

Also replace the glitzy Vegas-y glass with masonry. Currently it could be a condo tower in Kazakhstan, Moldova or Paraguay with the chintzy look.

Looks great to me. I hope its built as shown.

There are valid criticisms of this design, but "blocking the sun" is not one of them haha.

I think it looks great and the site is appropriate for the density. I don't think the NIMBYs will prevail on a height reduction on this one.

Regarding the appearance, I don't think there's anything too glitzy about the facade. It's just plain old glass curtain-wall or window wall system. It's pretty much the developer standard. What makes the building interesting is those terrace balconies which should soften the massing a bit.

If I were an Ann Arbor resident, I don't think I would oppose the building. I'm not very familiar with Ann Arbor though, I've never been downtown there, so my opinion isn't very qualified. I did research the area, and it seems to be located in a dense area. It would be similar to "The Fifth" in Royal Oak, an 18 story apartment building located on Washington and Fifth.

It makes sense to build density downtown. The more people you have living downtown, the more commercial activity you'll see.

This isn't being put in the middle of a single-family home neighborhood. The building would cause some late evening direct-sunlight disruption for the neighborhood to the east.

I'm going to be "that guy" and point out how sad it is that a small Midwest college town and a small Midwest town on the West Side of the state can support projects larger in scale than the state's by-far largest city [[and no, projects backed entirely by Gilbert don't count).

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Originally Posted by 313WX

I'm going to be "that guy" and point out how sad it is that a small Midwest college town and a small Midwest town on the West Side of the state can support projects larger in scale than the state's by-far largest city [[and no, projects backed entirely by Gilbert don't count).

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You are not "that guy". You are right. Actually, in some morbid dark humor its almost comical.

But that's okay. Detroiters seem to understand they have a lot of work to do. Nothing bothers me more than a person who parades around Detroit apologizing for its shortcomings. Don't you just want to yell at them to shut up and get to work?

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Originally Posted by 313WX

I'm going to be "that guy" and point out how sad it is that a small Midwest college town and a small Midwest town on the West Side of the state can support projects larger in scale than the state's by-far largest city [[and no, projects backed entirely by Gilbert don't count).

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Ann Arbor is healthier than Detroit in just about every way, but I will say, these projects are the result of decades of NIMBYism preventing developments from happening, and then the city suddenly allowing a small number of projects to be built.

This one looks to be one of the better designed ones, but I'd just say that no one can complain about those 1960s/70s towers being the ugliest tall buildings in town anymore. :p You'd think that a city like Ann Arbor would have higher quality design but it really doesn't at all.

Ann Arbor is the ultimate place for people who bitch about everything that gets proposed. However, that location is a bit odd for a building that tall.

I would take this downtown in a heartbeat.

A beautiful building which will be built as-is.

Ann Arbor is booming. Almost all the downtown restaurants - and there are tons of them - have people waiting for tables. The sidewalks are crowded every evening. Hard to find places to park. Everything is overpriced, from the restaurants to the real estate. [[I guess that indicates prosperity.) There are existing condos downtown going for over $1 million - Gov. Snyder lives in one. It's ultra-liberal politically. They're doing something right.

While Detroit has Dan Gilbert, AA has U. of M. and the U. of M. Hospital, both tremendous economic engines. [[Over 300 cardiologists live and practice in AA.)

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Originally Posted by drjeff

Ann Arbor is the ultimate place for people who bitch about everything that gets proposed. However, that location is a bit odd for a building that tall.

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There's another proposal, I believe, for the site to the west. It might help balance the height someday. But Ann Arbor always builds tall stuff in unusual locations. As a result the skyline is really spread out. Actually, the same can be said for a lot of college towns.

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Originally Posted by drjeff

Ann Arbor is the ultimate place for people who bitch about everything that gets proposed. However, that location is a bit odd for a building that tall.

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Ann Arbor certainly has lots of people with a history of activism [[tomato, tomahto!). I think there are lots of residents trying to come to terms with the changes. Many people moved to a somewhat sleepy college town; now, the local economy is booming, and changes are accelerating.

I think the building will loom over the Liberty street shopping district, where many of the stores are still in converted single family homes. But, as the diagram shows, it won't be any more jarring than the other tall buildings in town - they just seem to pop up randomly, too.

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Originally Posted by drjeff

Ann Arbor is the ultimate place for people who bitch about everything that gets proposed.

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Residents in desirable communities have no inclination to accept every development proposal. Developers do not run the city; involved citizenry run the city.

It's no coincidence that the most desirable communities are the toughest for developers.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Totally inappropriate scale for a small Midwest college town.

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A city with a permanent population of nearly 120,000 abutting a 4 million metro area is not a small Midwestern college town. Alma, Oberlin, Hillsdale, and Albion are small Midwestern college towns.

Anyway...I do hope they build it. It's sorely needed to have more hotel rooms here [[I know, I work in the industry) but I can understand why people would be against it. Change is never easy.

This project has been winding its way through the planning and approval process for some time. Still has lots of hurdles but there is an excellent chance that it will get built. Ann Arbor is continuing its growth as an economic engine for the state. This project is a major step in that positive direction. More underutilized parks and small scale buildings are not what Ann Arbor should be considering for its urban core.

What a sad contrast when it's possible that Ann Arbor might greenlight a project of this quality for its downtown and Detroit is settling for a stick-built apartment building on the Statler site.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

A city with a permanent population of nearly 120,000 abutting a 4 million metro area is not a small Midwestern college town. Alma, Oberlin, Hillsdale, and Albion are small Midwestern college towns.

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AA is a small college town. Very small Main Street core [[maybe 3 or 4 blocks) and about 1/3 the population consists of students. It just seems "big and vibrant" because we're in Michigan and people are shocked there are actual people walking down the street.

Places like Albion are just nothing villages. They aren't getting condo towers, ever.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

AA is a small college town. Very small Main Street core [[maybe 3 or 4 blocks) and about 1/3 the population consists of students. It just seems "big and vibrant" because we're in Michigan and people are shocked there are actual people walking down the street.

Places like Albion are just nothing villages. They aren't getting condo towers, ever.

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Again, 80,000 people is not a small town. I would say its the low-end for a medium sized town. Downtown PLUS Washtenaw Ave PLUS Briarwood Mall

Not saying those places are getting condos, but when a city grows it goes through growing pains and that means making unpopular decisions in order to grow. Why we are still pretending its 1920 and every city needs a "small town" feel to it. Cities grow, get used to it. Dexter, Chelsea, Manchester, and Saline all provide a nice small town feel to it and I would consider suburbs of Ann Arbor. So that's another 10-15,000 people.

Cities and towns should and do adopt zoning codes/ building standards, etc. for new buildings [[as well as for rehabs). Those rules specify everything from size to materials to street setbacks. They often include things like mandates for min/max # of residences, a certain amount of retail, etc. They also include what exceptions can be granted under the rules, and what cannot. Then when a building plan comes along- that fits the existing guidelines- a bunch of jerks, uh I mean concerned citizens, find their way to the hearings and scream how its awful and should never be allowed. The problem I have is: if you favor X,Y,Z conditions for building then enact it in the building code. Otherwise it is not fair. Builders are obligated to plan and build under existing code, not the code that some NIMBY types would like to enact ex-post-facto to block your monstrosity of a building.

As for this building itself, it's okay by me. I don't love it or hate it. And I spend little time in Ann Arbor anyway, so I don't care. I will say that I would never vote to change a plan because it offends someone's sensibilities.

Oh, and all this makes me wonder with Ann Arbor being an-ultra Leftist town: when did the Left become so reactionary and irritable? They used to pride themselves on shaking things up, being different, doing non-conformist things. Along comes a non-conformist building plan and BAM! they're triggered.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Oh, and all this makes me wonder with Ann Arbor being an-ultra Leftist town: when did the Left become so reactionary and irritable? They used to pride themselves on shaking things up, being different, doing non-conformist things. Along comes a non-conformist building plan and BAM! they're triggered.

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It's awesome how some people politicize everything. [[sarcasm)

Don't paint with such a broad brushstroke a whole side of a political spectrum when it's almost certainly just a tiny minority in Ann Arbor who are opposed to the plan. And whose political ideology you don't know. Could just as easily be Rick and Sue Snyder complaining from their condo around the corner as the imaginary lefties you love to criticize. Keep searching for false pretenses to get your political digs in. It's awesome when people do that too. [[extra sarcasm)

My personal opinion, which doesn't count for any more than Mikey's: I appreciate Ann Arbor's nostalgic historical charm, but no buildings will be demolished and the site is a big surface parking lot across from a transit center, next to the city library. It's hard to find a better location for a tall building. Residences, retail, and hotel rooms will be a big improvement over what's there now. Those are the kinds of things, not parking lots, that belong downtown.

Sorry Bust, but these are lefties. Ann Arbor lefties usually get it right on most issues but they have disappointed on this one. Hypocritical or unreasonable NIMBYism isn’t limited to one political persuasion. MLive had another article on the same day as the one linked by the OP that covered the public comments given at the March 2017 City Council meeting. It was rich seeing residents of the Loft 322 building just north of the site complaining about the scale and density of the project when they live in a recent building that has been derided for its impact on the block. It’s a 4 story, zero lot line condo building with a first floor entirely consumed by a garage, including its aesthetically pleasing 24 foot garage door. The building was allowed its own 30 foot curb cut. The pedestrian front door looks like a fire stair well entrance.

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Originally Posted by swingline

Hypocritical or unreasonable NIMBYism isn’t limited to one political persuasion.

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I totally agree. And that's tiring wherever it comes from.

Just as tiring as it is to witness those with a political axe to grind constantly trying to manufacture false pretenses to discredit those whose beliefs they oppose. That happens here all the time.

The people complaining about this proposal express only their own opinions. It's ridiculous to extrapolate them to claim they represent the opinions of everyone on an entire side of the political spectrum. In fact, the whole idea that the diversity of political opinion fits neatly on a linear spectrum is bunk. Reality is a lot more complicated than that. :)

Addendum:

I'm sure Mikey would call me a "leftie" but I'm proof not all those he's want to so label oppose this plan. I'm willing to bet a considerable majority don't.

Meanwhile I'm Italian-American and see good reason not to celebrate Christopher Columbus. I stand for law and order and oppose stop-and-frisk. Support our men and women in uniform yet stand strongly against police brutality. Love our country and am grateful to our veterans while I respect the protest to kneel during the national anthem to call attention to racial inequality...

According to some here, it would seem such positions are impossible.

It's cynical to turn everything into a political issue, box us into either-or categories, and focus attention on fringe outliers to paint a distorted picture they want to represent the whole. And so very tiring.

I guess I am in the minority on this one. I hope and wish Ann Arbor would continue to be the quaint, charming, quirky college town that it has been for so many decades.

Trying to create a big city environment in Ann Arbor with these 15-20 story condo towers is just another consequence of the adjacent Detroit Metro Area's massive failure to create such an environment in the REAL big city of the State of Michigan - DETROIT.

Interesting point, MasterB. If Detroit had not declined but had grown and diversified over the past few decades like, say, Atlanta or Boston, what would Ann Arbor look like now? I think that it would certainly be thriving, but chances are that it would be a significantly smaller employment center.

I would prefer we build upwards in a concentrated area, where we can then concentrate services, rather than more sprawl out into the countryside. Ann Arbor is growing, housing prices keep climbing, demand is high. Build up, not out.