Funny how people vote down public transportation because of taxes only to get huge costs and taxes levied on them just to be able to drive. The people of Michigan really are useful idiots
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...26262779-story
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Funny how people vote down public transportation because of taxes only to get huge costs and taxes levied on them just to be able to drive. The people of Michigan really are useful idiots
http://www.fox2detroit.com/news/loca...26262779-story
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddz313
My view is that they got it half right...
Oh, the irony of how even though we declined a major transit project our transit systems may end up seeing at least a small ridership boost thanks to this tax...Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddz313
Or they will try to cut corners elsewhere on insurance or something and we can pay for their stay in the grey bar hotel
The roads and infrastructure are an embarrassment and in dire need of repair. The increasing emphasis on subsidies and tax breaks for billionaires, at the expense of preventive maintenance requires that funds come from somewhere else. Redistribution of wealth, away from those who vote for those who redistribute. Useful idiot is a rude term. I think some folks are just too busy trying to keep their heads above the tsunami to engage in rational thought, or read books and news sources from varied points of view.
You don't seem to get it..... the folks of Michigan have been screaming for years about the condition of their roads. I'm all for mass transit.... but we're to spread out for it to do much good in much of SE Michigan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddz313
And don't call our entire state.... "useful idiots".... it detracts from your math/reading skills when your thread heading says we have the highest gas tax in the nation.... we are only #6... not #1. You missed the words "one of the" in the article heading".
The 20% increase in registration fees along with being number 5 or 6 in gas tax now makes us some of the highest taxed drivers in the country. I don't know why mass transit would not do much good though. Also headlines are designed to be short. The people of Michigan voted all these clowns in thinking they wouldn't get gouged because they have R's next to their names thus they are useful idiots
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddz313
This article just shows how bad the local media has become. The Detroit News had a very similar story. Fear and clickbaiting, with "oh look, you the Michigan Taxpayer are paying more and the roads still are awful." Clearly implies something is amiss.
And yet despite this implication, one very huge detail gets left out of the story: Michigan spends the least on roads. For those who aren't familiar with the details of the gas tax, a significant portion of the tax go towards schools. Not once is that mentioned in this article or the Detroit News article about the school portion. Not once. Classic deceptive journalism to generate clicks. Articles like this are the main reason I take the Detroit News with a grain of salt, and won't buy their paper.
Without the school portion being included, the uninformed reader has to assume they are paying more in taxes, and the government is just wasting it, because clearly the roads aren't getting better. Rather than practice good journalism, their pathetic faux news just prefers to mislead people into thinking their gas tax dollars are being misspent.
And this rant is coming from someone who favors shrinking the highways in our urban areas. I still want [[smaller) good roads, and am really, really tired of deceptive journalism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
I keep hearing this argument from people who know next to nothing about public transit, only echoed from somebody else they heard it from without actually understanding how transit work.
The truth is that there are cities with a lower population density than Detroit that have much better public transit than we do. Being "spread out" is not an excuse or a deterrent for creating a comprehensive public transit plan.
Half loaf is better than nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by emu steve
IMO that is how you do it,tax gas so it becomes $7 per gallon and fix the roads,it is proven that the higher the price of gas becomes the higher the ridership for mass transit.
If they get on board and offer an alternative to the burbs willing to move forward the city could create connective routes.
Say for instance connect Hamatrac to the downtown entertainment,sports and shopping district with a park and ride,when events are going on the public rides and does not have to worry about parking and driving back home if they have a few drinks,other times residents now have a choice of where they choose to live and can take the train or street car to work in either direction,the demand after that will create the sub lines.
You will never get everybody on board with a regional transit plan,it is a failure from the start,pick the communities that want to participate and work from there,nowhere in the country is a transit system based on everybody agreeing.
It is hard to present a case when the name calling starts because one does not agree with ones point of view,it does not matter what ones political views are or income level or whatever,if a viable plan is presented that makes sense it can be sold.
There is always going to be opposition and nobody is going to change that.
I would like to see some data for that, especially given that gas prices are way down nationally, and transit usage is up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Most U.S. transit riders are non-choice so it doesn't matter if gas is free or $10/gallon; if you're flat broke and in an urban area you're likely to need a bus. And if you're anywhere else, there is no bus.
User taxes like gas taxes inherently harm lower income households. It's a regressive tax. Income taxes make more sense, but for some odd reason, working class Americans apparently want to give the wealthy even more tax cuts, while increasing their own taxes.
You have that right. But good luck getting upper-class tax deductions changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
For example, taxing pensions clearly takes more money from middle to upper-middle class earners. Very few poor people have pensions. And that was super-popular, as I remember with a lot of voters.
Taxing benefits and pensions 100% is the single best thing we can do to relieve the tax burden on the poor -- by making those who have good jobs pay their fair share -- and not a penny more.
"...but for some odd reason, working class Americans apparently want to give the wealthy even more tax cuts, while increasing their own taxes..." Birmingham's observation is pertinent and interesting.
Funny how some people don't understand that public transit millages fail not because people don't want to pay the extra taxes. They fail because people don't want to pay extra taxes to fund things that they have no need or desire to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddz313
I don't think it's a matter of "wanting", I think it's a matter of not having a choice in either. Where a choice was offered, people voted accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Look for the Highway Trust Fund to be done away with and the abolish the Interstate Highway System to allow is for states to fund their highhway infrastructure through tolls, or taking the further step of privatizing the highways. Its been tested in on a stretch of highway in Indiana I believe in 2006. In the best of all worlds, the cost of the tolls on the consumer could encourage transit options like the failed effort in Michigan or not...How many tolls could you pay on the I-94 toll road to Chicago or better yet that daily commute between Brighton and Ann Arbor or those trucks and cars on the I75 Rouge River bridge? Might make the high speed rail look real good. Of course that could be the next thing to defund...Amtrak. Turn it private but now that the new 'dear leader' has pissed of the Chinese maybe the Russians want to run a railroad?
Our gas tax may not be the highest today but it will be eventually. Remember the yearly automatic escalating increases?
I vote against most tax increases not because I don't want to pay 'extra' taxes... but because I believe that we are paying a reasonable amount of taxes now -- and that what is needed is more efficiency, not more taxes. [[I just have to think about Turkia Mullins for 1 second, and another second for that guy who got a full Wayne County pension for less than 10 years work because he was able to count some other work as WC time or something equally abusive to the taxpayers -- and then I vote NO.)Quote:
Originally Posted by SyGolden48236
Not to mention the fact that the taxes that were being collected all these years, for roads and bridges, were placed into, again without public approval, the general fund, and siphoned off for other projects. Now when the shit has hit the proverbial fan, what's the solution? More taxes. Sorry, I'm tapped out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
Wow, LOL, you all pay no taxes on fuel relative to the rest of the world, and you feel hard done by.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
As I read it, you will pay, after this increase, in the range of .26c per gallon....
Across the border you'd pay 1.05 per gallon in total tax [[fuel + sales taxes)
That goes up to $1.095 on Jan 1, 2017 [[Cap and Trade)
Really folks, you pay next to nothing; and the quality of your infrastructure reflects that.
true Canadian Visitor. and things are not going to improve. I should have married Canadian twenty years ago...Sigh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
All I want to know is, where is Grover Norquist? I thought he forced every Republican to sign a pledge to never raise taxes under any circumstance. Maybe we need a Michigan state version of Grover to get this situation under control.
Donald "dear leader"Trump hasn't taken the pledge...Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement
http://time.com/4354389/grover-norqu...-conservative/
And if he thinks Ronnie was that conservative...
LOL! WOW, what does any of that have to do with my situation? Are you suggesting I should succumb to higher taxes to somehow appease everyone else's situation? If you don't like being gouged in your part of the world, and don't feel you're getting your money's worth, then either work to change it or move.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
I don't recall saying anything about feeling hard done by.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
My point was that you are not.
If you are paying the cheapest price in the developed world for something; and you bitch and moan cause the price rises, to the point where its still the cheapest in the developed world, your being irrational.
Moreover, Michigan is years behind investing in its infrastructure. Catching up will require money.
Your complaints seem to suggest that you think Michigan should grow 'money trees' to pay for bridge and road repair, modern sewage and drinking water systems etc etc.
Back in the real world, the way governments pay for necessary investment is by raising taxes.
If you think privatization would solve your issue, Toronto has a privately owned [[leased) highway [[407).
A ten mile [[16km) drive will cost you $10.42 Cdn without a transponder.
Or just over $6 with; but you'll pay monthly fee of $3.75 for the transponder.
Can't afford that? No highway for you.
Good analogy, and you managed it without the use of name calling or Instant Messaging acronyms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
Clearly by the lack of emphasis people put on fuel efficiency in their choice of vehicles to drive in Michigan there is little thought of the personal expense or an economic determent to the fuel tax.
A regional fuel tax is the proven way to pay for public transport. It makes little sense that it has not been utilized.
Speaking of bitching and moaning, you seem to be doing one hell of a job when someone shoots down your pointless post. I feel bad Canadians are over paying for their highway usage, but again, that has little to do with me or my situation. Anyway, you must still be drunk from last night's celebration because now you've taken to interjecting false statements and using hard facts like "you think". Reread my "bitching and moaning" response post again. [[perhaps a few times?) We, here in MI, have for years been already paying into a roads and bridges tax. Money that should have been set aside for that, was moved to a "general fund", and used elsewhere. Now MI residents are being taxed again, because we're short on funding. Make sense? As long as that money is being kept in that fund, and can be voted on, by our legislative body, to be appropriated elsewhere, history will keep repeating itself. Anyway, Happy 2017, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
^^^ Yet, some will adapt to continue their option to drive their personal cars: My primary vehicle is an older mid-sized sedan, with a small block V6 engine [[it was the best car for the money at the time). I plan my drives strategically, the car coasts great so I am not lead-foot for acceleration or heavy-foot for braking, so I don't have to change my brakes often either.
My next car will be a four cylinder as I have owned them before.
I bought a new car this year and it's a 4 cylinder and I'm surprised how "peppy" it is and I was coming from a V8. It's not as fast as a V8 of course but it drives pretty good on the freeway and most importantly I'm ready for $4 gallon prices.
I voted for the mileage for public transportation and now that I think about it, I'm glad it was voted down. I don't use nor will I ever use the bus. I noticed gas prices went up this morning to reflect the gas tax and then add another 20% in registration fees... I don't want to pay another $100 on my property taxes considering my winter taxes jumped $120 for a school millage. I'm taxed the hell out.
Speaking of bitching and moaning, you seem to do one hell of a job when someone shoots down your pointless post. I feel bad Canadians are over paying for their highway usage, but again, that has little to do with me or my situation. Anyway, you must still be drunk from last night's celebration because now you've taken to interjecting false statements I've made, and using cold hard facts like "you think". Reread my "bitching and moaning" response post again. [[perhaps a few times?) We, here in MI, have for years been already paying into a roads and bridges tax. Money that should have been set aside for the repair and maintenance of, was moved into a "general fund", and used elsewhere. Now MI residents are being taxed again, because we're short on funding. Make sense? As long as that money is being kept in that fund, and can be voted on, by our legislative body, to be appropriated elsewhere, history will keep repeating itself. Anyway, Happy 2017, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
Yeah it lies in part to the engineering. The new domestic 4 cyls may be slow on 'zero-to-whatever' ratio but once they are up they can haul and fairly responsive. I'm not into European cars personally, but VW's had kick-butt fast 4 cyls for ages. You'd see the VW small sedans and hatchbacks haul butt flying on the freeway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
My post was not pointless; and your critique is off-point from beginning to end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
You were plaintive.
I pointed that out, and suggested quite rightly, and factually, that your complaint makes no sense.
Your gas was and is cheap, your taxes were and are low.
Period. You are entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts.
Any comparison must be global.
The fact you have no interest in anything further than your front door does not change the facts in your favour.
***
As to segregating funds. Sure, if you want to, go ahead. As a country you don't even do that for Social Security [[which strikes me as dubious, but I digress).
However, no time like the present to start.
That said, if you redirect all existing gas taxes to pay for roads, you'll blow a hole in the budget that will shut down or gut many other programs.
Since people won't stand for that; you're back to raising taxes, and the question won't be whether to do so, only which ones, and how much.
I would also point out, that the current gas tax generates 800M a year, give or take.............which according to MDOT is about 1/2 of what they need to maintain roads/bridges to an acceptable state.
In other words, even if 100% of the revenue from the existing gas tax were dedicated it would be grossly insufficient.
Of the five local gas stations I routinely survey, four were still at yesterday's $2.35/gal and only one increased to $2.49/gal today. I would have expected them all to increase all at once. Go figure.
The one by my house jumped to 2.45 this morning. I should have filled up yesterday.
I love how Canadian Visitor came all up in this thread and started dropping fact bombs everywhere.:D
I'm fine with this tax increase, but question if it's going to be enough? With vehicles getting more fuel efficient every year, this isn't likely to be a windfall for MDOT.
The title of this thread really needs to be edited [[We're not going to have the highest fuel taxes). But we can claim the highest auto insurance rates in the country. We're still #1 at something!
I Mona have to side with Canadian Visitor just a little bit here because Canadians may be conditioned to higher taxation in regards to higher costs per capita. Just look at the road mileage in the world's major countries relative to the population in the following link and it's fairly clear that the burden for road upkeep and overhaul is huge in Canada. The US is the country with the highest mileage per capita, and comes in at less than six times the size of infrastructure; same for expressways: with ten times the population.
Russia with its 600 clicks of highways. That is something the Reds never got; rolling with the top down, tailgating, corndogs, oops, I digress...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...d_network_size
Where I am at the stations cannot change the price of fuel already delivered,when you receive a new wholesale delivery at the higher price then you can change.
That maybe the case there.
Yes, the fuel tax in Michigan is collected at the wholesale level. This is what makes this an intelligent tax. The state gets the money with as much minimal damage to the local economy as possible. No landlords raising the rent higher using a property tax increase as an excuse to make more profit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
Hawaii, California & New York are traditionally the highest. Today Hawaii's at $3.02/gal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnnny5
I wonder who is rushing around checking the paperwork on that. My guess is nobody.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard
My 4 cyl Honda Accord company car hauls ass. 105 mph is nothing, do it all the time on I-96 or I-75 when there's nobody around. There's more after that too but my craziness has limits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
I never could understand why anybody would buy that car with the 6 cyl engine.
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
I know of a gas station nearby that moves its prices a few cents up or down multiple times throughout the day, just because.
In Quebec there was a big case about collusion between gas stations hiking prices a few years ago. A system was in place to raise and lower above the market adjusted prices.
Governments can also pay for necessary investment by acquiring debt or by ignoring the future cost of current promises or even by selling past investment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
But yes, raising taxes can pay for investment. But it also can pay for the stranded costs of gas plants in Ontario -- or it could pay to reduce the retirement age in Canada from 67 to 65 in a vote-grab.
Yeah, sometimes I wish I had the 4 cyl version of my model car. But I coast alot, so that helps. Dead foot driving will have you at the gas station often!
Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
"dead" foot drivers can't even make it to the gas station;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
^^^ Good catch! Yeah the dead ain't in a hurry!
I meant 'LEAD' FOOT...:cool:...:p...!
As long as the money is used for better roads, this tax will probably save me money. I've owned my truck for 4 yrs and put 70,000 miles on it. Based on 18 mpg [[Ford straight 6 engines are frugal on gas!!), and 70,000 miles, I've purchased 3,888 gallons on gas. Multiply that by the .07-per-gallon gas tax, and it's a paltry $352.16 extra I would've spent on gas over the course of 4 yrs.
Now for the repairs I've done due to driving on these horrendous roads. Since I've had the truck: new front and rear shocks - $170. Replaced front 4X4 inner/outer bearings TWICE - $200. Two control arm brackets - $80. Front axle u-joints and both upper/lower ball joints - $305. Allignment - $80. Add that up - that's $835 in repairs. Subtract the $352 extra for the gas, and I'm still in the black $483. My registration is about $100, so 20% increase is $20 per year, or $80 for four years. Subtracted from $483 = $403. Also, all of the above repairs I did myself. If I had to pay a garage to do them, the repair costs would probably triple.
To be fair, my truck is 20 years old [[1996 F-150 4X4), so I can't quite say that the above repairs are entirely the bad roads fault. And iIdo 90% of my driving in Detroit where the roads seem to be way worse, so my example is kind of extreme. But my point is that if you sit down and do the math, most people will come out ahead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeGeds
People don't know or forget that in 2016, almost 40% of the state taxes you paid at the pump were going toward schools/education. Most states do not contribute any of their gas tax to education.
With the increased portion of the gas tax all going to roads, that percentage going to schools drops closer to 30%. Still a significant amount, and while Michigan has one of the highest taxes on gas, we don't spend anywhere close the most on roads because a significant portion is still going to the schools.
And to be clear, I believe the schools in this state are very underfunded. So I am not against more tax going to schools. But when that tax is at the pump, it confuses people because they think they are paying more for roads than they really are.
As someone who normally screams about tax increases, This tax change is needed. Michigan fuel tax revenue peaked in 2000. It has been falling ever since, even as the number of vehicle miles driven has increased. You can't have falling tax revenues and expect the roads to be maintained. With Vehicles being 30% more efficient than they were 20 years ago and Electric vehicles not needing gasoline, fuel sales continue to drop. With the push for electric cars we will need another way to pay for roads within the next 15 years. So while the tax rate might have changed, this will just boost tax revenues back to where they should be to keep the roads in decent shape.
And while we may have one of the highest tax rates in the country, We won't for long. Every government entity in the world who basis road construction on fuel tax revenues have the same problem.
WOW, What a fact bomb. So, almost half [[40%) of tax collected in MI for roads and bridge maintenance is going for education purposes, and who knows what else. Lottery money revenue is going towards education. What else is being tapped into and misappropriated from the use intended? When you look @ MI high school rankings, MI ranks 28th in the country. I suppose then visitors to this forum are right, we should compare ourselves globally, and probably to 3rd world countries. @ least that way it looks like we're getting somewhere. Tax On!Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus
The real stupidity kicks in when we have based a big chunck of revenues for schools [[ the 6% sales tax of fuel ) on the wildly unstable world oil markets. The Saudis decide to up the production to stick it to the Iranians and whamo! A big hole in the schools budget here in Michigan that has to be made up from somewhere else. It's almost like the idiots in Lansing try hard to set the system up to fail every time from any ripple of economic change.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus
"WOW, What a fact bomb. So, almost half [[40%) of tax collected in MI for roads and bridge maintenance is going for education, and who knows what else?"
Here's what else.
Here's a table I made of all the fees and taxes on gasoline. The pump price is what I saw on the road this morning. This makes the sales tax 13.2 cents/gallon. I note that the local stations have raised their prices by almost 40 cents since I last bought gas, of which only 7.2 cents was the tax increase. [[I have labeled the gas "tax" a user fee if it goes to roads, and a tax if used for non-road purposes.)
And in case anyone notices it, this table shows the correct Michigan gasoline tax, which is only 25.9055 cents/gallon, not the 26.3 that everyone thinks it is. The 1.5% difference is left uncollected, as a favor by the legislature to the petroleum dealers to give them a bit more room for markup, because as everyone knows it's so hard to make a buck in the oil business.
Gasoline Pump Price, gallon $2.599 Retail Price of Fuel before All Taxes $2.015 Total Federal Excise Tax 0.18400 Federal Excise Tax for Roads 0.15440 Federal Excise Tax for Transit 0.02860 Federal Underground-tank Fee 0.00100 6% Michigan Sales Tax 0.13195 State Sales Tax for Schools[[73.33% of 6%) 0.09676 State Sales Tax for Revenue Sharing and Other 0.02906 State Sales Tax for Transit[[4.65% of 6%) 0.00614 Michigan Motor Fuel Tax 0.25906 State User Fee for Roads 0.23715 State Fuel Tax for Transit [[8.5% gas, 10% others) 0.02191 State Environmental Fee 0.00875 Total User Fee for Roads 0.39155 Total Tax for Transit 0.05664 Taxes for Other than Transportation 0.13557 Total of all Taxes and Fees 0.58376
Having read all of this I really do see the necessity as detailed; feel the love and realize ever more distinctly that I cannot ever purchase a new car in Michigan.
Combo: car note, high insurance, and higher taxes. Uh, no. Something has to give, not that I was hankering for that seven-year car finance plan anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandhouse
Great Chart!
For comparison purposes, this is roughly what we face on the other side of the border.
Gas price is $1.16 per litre today. This works out to $4.38 per US Gallon
Of that:
HST [[fed + prov sales tax) is 13%
Fed Excise Tax is 10c per litre [[38c per gallon)
Prov. Gas Tax is 14.7c per litre [[55.5c per gallon)
Carbon Tax is 4.5c per litre [[ 17c per gallon)
Meaning the 'base' retail cost of gas here is in the range of:
.71c per litre or 2.68 per Gallon BEFORE tax.
Meaning .45c per litre or 1.70 per gallon is the tax here.
Or tax equals roughly 38% of the price; this compares to about 20% in Michigan
I'd be interested to know why the 'base' cost is higher here
Gas Tax here is mostly 'general revenue' though roughly 3-4c is passed down to cities/regions directly. Senior levels of gov't do pay cost-shares on most 'major' projects [[subways, commuter rail etc.) as well as 100% for most major highways.
I agree, Good data. I ask because I didn't see the currency conversion from Canadian dollars to US dollars. Is your math in US dollars from the start?Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
I did everything in Cdn, that I converted, while using the US number in USD that was in the chart.Quote:
Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit
Good catch, my bad:
Adjusted Below.
All numbers now in USD
Gas price is USD$.86 per litre today. This works out to USD$3.26 per US Gallon
Of that:
HST [[fed + prov sales tax) is 13%
Fed Excise Tax is [[28c per gallon)
Prov. Gas Tax is [[41c per gallon)
Carbon Tax is [[13c per gallon)
Meaning the 'base' retail cost of gas here is in the range of:
USD$2.07per Gallon BEFORE tax.
Meaning USD$1.19 per gallon is the tax here.
This mostly resolves the difference in pre-tax fuel price, though, not quite.
Canada is a much closer to an apple to apple comparison to the US than France. The distances are great, the economies diverse and the population spread out without a lot of competition to move people and goods without diesel or gasoline, with the only exceptions being dense metro areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian Visitor
In Michigan, we survived 2 out of 3 bankruptcies to our auto manufactures in 1 year's time because they flat out couldn't move any of their inventory of large SUVs. Yet less than a decade later, that's practically all they make. Our roads and bridges are in extremely bad shape plus we have the largest metro area in the country with the worst public transportation system. Next up, somehow, we have the largest Metro area in the state with roughly 125 square miles of a no-go economic zone that is causing hugely expensive social problems. While at the same time, it is much more cost effective to build new in the middle of farm fields many miles from almost everything besides a strip mall, and nothing has been done to change anything with the only exception on the table being to give even larger tax breaks to the billionaires willing to develop at its very core.
Maybe its time to really consider what taxes we can afford to change instead of doing business as usual.
We get it, "You are against all taxes" because corruption in government has existed. You hate unions, and public service isn't as efficient as the private for-profit sector where anything can fail. But none of that changes the fact that we need roads, bridges, schools, police, fire depts, prisons, buses etc... This mindset denies capital improvement and drives up the cost of social issues exponentially.
I just thought maybe we could cover the usual ground quickly.
Michigan’s roads have been an embarrassment for decades. Every summer there are massive road projects but nothing gets better. The state even admits this latest increase will only stop roads from getting worse.
One of the major culprits is Michigan’s gross vehicle weight limit of 160,000 lbs., which is double other states. Ever been in a car stopped on an overpass when a large truck goes past? You can feel the bridge flex in the seat of your pants. Not only are heavy trucks tearing up roads and bridges, they are involved in fatal accidents far out of proportion to their numbers.
Québec and Ontario have similar high level loads permitted. Some roadways here were fixed using polymer mixes in asphalt where too much polymer was used and the roadbed is weak. This causes canals along truck wheel treads; it is freaky to get caught up in this especially in winter when you don't see the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat001
The 7.3-cent-per-gallon tax increase motorists began paying on Jan. 1 and the 20 percent increase in the vehicle registration tax are expected to cost road users an additional $460 million this year. The money is dedicated to transportation funding.
Yet the state transportation budget will only have $160 million more this year for road repairs, not $460 million. That is because the Legislature shifted general revenue funds out of the transportation budget just as new tax revenues were coming into it.
Since 2011 the Legislature began shifting revenue from other taxes into the transportation budget. By last year, the amount of state General Fund revenue transferred to transportation had risen to $402 million — nearly as much as the new road tax hikes will bring in this year.
With the new road tax money rolling in, all but $9.75 million worth of General Fund revenues were removed from this year’s current transportation budget. The $392 million in General Fund money that is now being removed from the transportation budget will be used to pay for increases in Medicaid and public school funding.
And isn't it the case the money is being shifted to pay for public schools in large part because up to $324 million in taxpayer money that would have otherwise gone toward public schools has been diverted to the new arena?Quote:
Originally Posted by CassTechGrad
Detroit Billionaires Get Arena Help as Bankrupt City Suffers
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-09-03/detroit-billionaires-get-hockey-arena-as-bankrupt-city-suffers
"Almost 60 percent of the funds to pay for the arena would come from taxpayers. Bonds would be backed by a combination of about $15 million in annual payments from Detroit’s Downtown Development Authority and $11.5 million from Olympia. Wayne County may also provide support, according to a July 24 memo.
In December, Michigan’s legislature revived the ability of the development authority to take a portion of school-tax revenue generated by property on 615 downtown acres. The money, which had gone toward economic-development bonds, would be used for debt service on a project meeting the characteristics of a new Red Wings arena.
The levy generates about $13 million, said Bob Rossbach, a spokesman for the authority.
The money otherwise would have reverted to public schools and the state’s school-aid fund, according to a legislative analysis. The state will reimburse the district to make up shortfalls, just as did before 2011, said Rossbach.
“It’s not taking money from Detroit Public Schools and putting it into economic development,” Rossbach said."
It sure looks like a giant shell game to me, with legislative obfuscations hiding the real winners from view.
They were only transferring money into the transportation budget from the general fund so that they could meet the matching required to get federal funds. That was never meant to be anything but a temporary solution.
The biggest hole that we still have is that the sales tax collected on gas doesn't go toward the roads. It explains how we collect among the highest taxes on gas yet aren't spending to the same proportion.
Remember we had a ballot proposal in place that would have fixed that. It would have directed all taxes collected at the pump, including sales tax, toward roads, and would have also raised enough [[via a 1-cent across the board sales tax increase) to keep the revenues the same for the general fund. People voted that down and complain that the issues aren't being addressed, the exact issues that the proposal would have taken care of.