Original features of Detroit's grand old squares & parks

I jog through Cass Park every couple of weeks and I always thought with its design of pathways converging to its center, and given the historic nature of the park and the historic architecture that surrounds it, that a Grand Circus Park- or Dupont Circle [[of Wash DC)-type of fountain located smack dab in the middle of the park where all of the paths meet up together would like really nice.

I did a little research and discovered that indeed there originally was a fountain in the center of the park.

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As you can see it wasn't spectacular or ornate, but it gave the park a focal point and an attractive water feature. I hope now that Mr. Ilitch will be revamping the park as part of the District Detroit, he would consider bringing back a fountain to the park. The park is in bad shape, the pavement is crumbling and some of the 1970's-80's elements are starting to show age and neglect.

Cass Park could be midtown's grandest and most elegant public square

In addition, Capital Park also had a fountain in it as well.

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Do you notice all the greenery of the park in the bottom picture? I know that the park was renovated recently, but with all of the investment going on around the park, I hope a re-design of the park is considered that will give it more greenery, to make it a contrast and a refuge from all of the pavement and brick that surrounds it . And of course bring back a fountain/water feature!

I am hopefuly Illitch does a complete makeover for Cass but I am not holding my breath.

As for Capitol Park Gilbert did hint at an overhaul a year or two ago. I love that area but the park is pretty bland with a bit too much concrete for my liking. More green and a water feature would be nice.

Clark Park in Southwest Detroit once had a small lake, with a fancy pedestrian bridge built over it, a wading pool, and a band stand

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The wading pool, which sits empty, neglected, and non-functional, can be seen in this link, page 89

https://books.google.com/books?id=9O...20pool&f=false

Hardly even seen in images of Capitol Park is this "Comfort Station" designed by Van Leyen, Schilling & Keogh and built in 1918.

I think that it's about time to move this damaged and neglected puppy from Palmer Park back downtown where it was built and working.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/712887...93655/sizes/z/


Since Camput Martius is full.... this would make a nice centerpiece for Capitol Park...

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Originally Posted by southen

I am hopefuly Illitch does a complete makeover for Cass but I am not holding my breath.

As for Capitol Park Gilbert did hint at an overhaul a year or two ago. I love that area but the park is pretty bland with a bit too much concrete for my liking. More green and a water feature would be nice.

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I agree,they built urban parks back then to allow for an escape of the concrete jungle and not be a part of it.

Simple but elegant with green spaces and the water calming effect of the water fountains.

Great pictures masterblaster, p69rrh51 and gistok. Thanks.

Of course, few park in Detroit were as picturesque as Waterworks Park once was.

http://cdn.loc.gov/service/pnp/det/4...0/4a12828v.jpg

There were once fountains even in little neighborhood parks. Here's a picture of one in the long-gone Crawford Park. Funny how it now seems to be such a huge technical challenge to keep just a few major fountains up and running sporadically, but it looks like the city had dozens of operating fountains 100 years ago.

http://photos.metrotimes.com/wp-cont...04351492_o.jpg

I can't believe how beautiful these parks once were! I'm in Capitol Park every day and it doesn't even feel like a park to me. I usually walk around it, not through it. If they brought back some of that greenery I might actually stop and spend some time there.

Maybe 10 to 12 years ago, I read on a long-gone website that Palmer Park had an "extended river". So I did some research and found that indeed the park had a canal as seen below.

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Also, Palmer Park had a 2nd lake with boathouse and a casino [[burned down in '45)

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a rustic bridge over the canal
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and a rustic well
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From what I can tell, all of these water features were filled in the 1950's with dirt from the Lodge Freeway excavation. Why did they decide to get rid of these features????

Grand Circus Park had a different fountain on the east side of the park as depicted in this 1906 image. The current fountain has a lady figure.

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Riverfront Park, the oft-overlooked park at the foot of West Grand Boulevard had a very well-appointed landscaping and structure at the water's edge

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Originally Posted by masterblaster

Maybe 10 to 12 years ago, I read on a long-gone website that Palmer Park had an "extended river". So I did some research and found that indeed the park had a canal as seen below.

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Explains my mother's memories of "boating in Palmer Park" as a youngster. I always wondered what the hell she was talking about.

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Originally Posted by masterblaster

Grand Circus Park had a different fountain on the east side of the park as depicted in this 1906 image. The current fountain has a lady figure.

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Originally Posted by masterblaster

Riverfront Park, the oft-overlooked park at the foot of West Grand Boulevard had a very well-appointed landscaping and structure at the water's edge

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Let me see if I can get this right -

Riverfront Park's [[at the foot of West Grand Blvd) original design [[much better than the non-descript park it is today)
Picture is from 1895, notice no houses at the foot of West Grand Boulevard in top photo.

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The fountain on the eastern side of Grand Circus Park:

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Washington Boulevard had a fountain as well

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Owen Park on the east Riverfront had a fountain and a small wading pool for the little kiddies [[see bottom photo)
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Does this park still exist?

Belle had a sheltered pier [[this was probably in the pre-Sunset Point days)
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One has to realize that Grand Circus Park east and west were totally ripped apart in 1955 in order to put underground parking there. Everything was torn out, trees and fountains.

Only what could be saved [[statuary and some fancy fountainworks) was saved, and reinstalled [[not often at the same location)....

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Originally Posted by masterblaster

Owen Park on the east Riverfront had a fountain and a small wading pool for the little kiddies [[see bottom photo)
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Does this park still exist?

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Yes, Owen Park is still there. It's on Jefferson just south of Indian Village. I spent a fair amount of time there as a kid, but even by that time [[1960s & '70s) all of the features you show were gone.

The park has been completely neglected for years, and now serves mostly as a muddy pass through for people driving down to the river to fish or hang out.

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

There were once fountains even in little neighborhood parks. Here's a picture of one in the long-gone Crawford Park. Funny how it now seems to be such a huge technical challenge to keep just a few major fountains up and running sporadically, but it looks like the city had dozens of operating fountains 100 years ago.

http://photos.metrotimes.com/wp-cont...04351492_o.jpg

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We traded frequent cleaning requirements and a wasteful attitude towards water for high complexity and expense. Modern water features have underground holding tanks, filtration and purification systems to avoid algae growth and no make people sick if they ingest water or spray along with high pressure pumps to use that water from the tank instead of city pressure. All this has to be decommissioned and drained every season, another expense. Of course, all this technology needs a control system to operate it. Modern water features are thus hugely expensive, like hundreds of thousands for some of the ones pictured here.

Whereas before there was often simply a pipe with a pool and water often leaked out and evaporated as fast as it was going in. Workers would have to clean the pools regularly as leaves and other organic debris make a mucky mess in just a few weeks in a closed system.

All of these features in the parks require two things:

1. City employees competent to to maintain the plumbing and landscaping.
2. City employees to whom the word "work" is not a nasty four-letter word.

You don't get this with fifty years of "friends and family" hiring and staffing practices.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

All of these features in the parks require two things:

1. City employees competent to to maintain the plumbing and landscaping.
2. City employees to whom the word "work" is not a nasty four-letter word.

You don't get this with fifty years of "friends and family" hiring and staffing practices.

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Fifty years seems like an odd, even number, Hermod. What happened fifty years ago to prompt the change you mention?

Also, what was it like before?

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Originally Posted by Hermod

All of these features in the parks require two things:

1. City employees competent to to maintain the plumbing and landscaping.
2. City employees to whom the word "work" is not a nasty four-letter word.

You don't get this with fifty years of "friends and family" hiring and staffing practices.

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I think this has more to do with the cost of wages now vs. the 1910s. In the past, people power was cheaper. Even Henry Ford's vaunted $5 a day comes out to about $30K a year in today's dollars, and that was considered the pinnacle of pay scales. Most people worked for a lot less; the people mucking out fountains worked for way less.

Back in the day there was a fear that polio was spreading through
public pools. I can't say if this is the reason why, but I think the
fountains were taken out well before African American southerners
become the most prevalent City of Detroit employee ethnic group.

Hermod you hit the nail on head. I recall spending a lot of time in the parks as part of my work schedule, getting things done was a major frustration factor. In the early 70's Palmer Park had a casting pond where folks could gone to work on fishing skills. The pond was on the west side of the park near the golf course. During the summer there were some individuals who would be there on Sunday mornings. I got a chance to see some real experts when it came to casting, fly, bait and spin casters. A quiet sport they enjoyed at the pond. It has probably been filled in or removed.

Well, here is what happened to Eppinger Pond near the Dearborn Civic Center
at Michigan and Greenfield Roads:

http://www.pressandguide.com/article...ewmode=default

And this history page on Palmer Park mentions the casting pond, but
a very nice lake next to it was filled in with debris from the Lodge Freeway
right before I was born on the same day the ribbon cutting for the Lodge
Freeway was held outside Crittenton Hospital, right by the Lodge Freeway
at that time:

https://peopleforpalmerpark.wordpres...f-palmer-park/

And the Phragmites and the pond both have resurfaced. I'd want my money back.

Does anyone remember a small hot dog stand at the SE corner of Temple and 2nd? Iwas across the street from the Masonic Temple and the lady who owned it sold pretty good hot dogs, this is in the early 70's. Reading this post brought back some memories, it was a very small restaurant.

Thanks everyone for sharing their stories, photos, and opinions

It appears that Scripps Park in Woodbridge looked a lot different in the late 1800's to early 1900's than it does now. It contained a library which was originally the mansion of a Mr. and Mrs. George Booth. The park once had a fancy stone-lined cascade and canal running through it as well

I have exceeded my upload allocation, so a link to the article with photos is below:

https://cranbrookkitchensink.wordpre...-land-library/

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Originally Posted by masterblaster

It appears that Scripps Park in Woodbridge looked a lot different in the late 1800's to early 1900's than it does now. It contained a library which was originally the mansion of a Mr. and Mrs. George Booth. The park once had a fancy stone-lined cascade and canal running through it as well

I have exceeded my upload allocation, so a link to the article with photos is below:

https://cranbrookkitchensink.wordpre...-land-library/

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An image of the library.

The library from the James Scripps house was moved across Trumbull to the Scripps Library in 1927.

It wouldn't be the first time in Detroit a park..........[[1896)
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....became a subdivision [[1903)
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Originally Posted by Gistok

One has to realize that Grand Circus Park east and west were totally ripped apart in 1955 in order to put underground parking there. Everything was torn out, trees and fountains.

Only what could be saved [[statuary and some fancy fountainworks) was saved, and reinstalled [[not often at the same location)....

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In Paris they somehow manage to put in multi-level underground parking without disturbing the historic buildings on the site.

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Originally Posted by expatriate

In Paris they somehow manage to put in multi-level underground parking without disturbing the historic buildings on the site.

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Somehow I think Detroit would have ended up with some sink holes had they tried that. After all soil reacts differently than building foundations. Also... the GCP re-do was 60 years ago. Any innovations for underground parking in a different way of creating them, would likely be do to more recent innovations.

From my window I can see that they're ripping out portions of Capitol Park again. Did not notice this earlier today. What do you all think the odds are we'll get more green space, or, dare I say, a water fountain?