Red Wings draft new black player!

Givani Smith [[birthplace: Thornhill, Ontario) is the newest Detroit Red Wing.
Kudos and hopefully he'll have a long career, preferably locally.

Hopefully he will turn out to be a results-producing prospect and get groomed into a featured player on the team.

I hope that the local black press isn't asleep at the wheel. I've been trying to contact an assortment of folks. This should get as much publicity as possible.

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Detroit — It was a late-season game in Flint, between two bad teams, but Kris Draper decided to make the drive.
Draper, who does a lot of amateur scouting these days for the Red Wings, drove to take one last look at Givani Smith, a prospect playing for Guelph.
What Draper saw that night convinced him Smith was the type of player the Red Wings needed to draft.
“Somebody was taking liberties with his teammate, and this was a 20-year-old [[on Flint), which considering Givani was two- or three-years younger, that’s a major difference,” Draper said. “But Givani went in there and defended his teammate. He stood up for him.
“Late in the season like that, Givani could have just skated away. What he did, I liked seeing that.”
It’s a long way off, and there’s no guarantee. But Red Wings fans might have a future fan favorite, a cult hero they’ll love — and opponents’ fans can’t stand.
Smith, the organization’s second-round pick Saturday at the Entry Draft, plays the type of physical and agitating style that is sure to entertain Red Wings fans, but opponents will hate.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/spo...tial/86414704/

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his college/pro history thus far-- http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=252472

I'm sure you mean well but why post that he's black? I would hope we're well past that point in hockey and every sport.

YAY! That will break the color barrier!

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Originally Posted by 401don

I'm sure you mean well but why post that he's black? I would hope we're well past that point in hockey and every sport.

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Well yes and no and I hear you on the why-mention-it. The perception of hockey is that it is the least Afro-American participative of the major league sports. This stands out a bit more in a majority Afro-American city like Detroit and that is why this becomes news. The really big story would be if he was American from Detroit.

I recall there have been Afro-Canadian Red Wings but only minor players for short times.

Along those lines there have been rumors of the Wings getting Montreal's great Afro-Canadian PK Subban, IMO just the man we need for our lame defense.

Given the A) Red Wings [[hockey in general) have historically had a threadbare African American following, B) the vocal angst about the mostly - publicly funded arena and whether there’s anything in it for “average locals” to pay attention to when LCA gets up and running, and C) the narrative about downtown’s “comeback” that seemingly marginalizes black participation, then this is positive news.

Whether this young man ends up being a “star” or not, it’s newsworthy.

Detroit's urban kids are still going to primarily have their basketball and football heroes [[notice I didn't mention baseball, which is another thread) , but here's a chance to turn some heads and say "hey, that's cool..."

It's only newsworthy when you focus on the color of someone's skin and not the content of their character. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Originally Posted by belleislerunner

It's only newsworthy when you focus on the color of someone's skin and not the content of their character. You should be ashamed of yourself.

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Mr. Smith isn't running for public office; and I'm afraid I don't relate to the fake 'colorblind' ethos that some folks think is progressive.:p

If there were a drastic lack of Italian-ethnics in pro hockey, I have no doubt that folks of said backgrounds interest would be piqued at a development like this.

I also don't understand the relevance of the player's race. There are plenty of black or nonwhite players in the NHL these days, including some prominent stars.

Also, the drafted player isn't African American, so it isn't like there's some "local" angle. It's a Canadian athlete who happens to be black, in what is a marginal sport in the U.S.

The local angle is that most black casual sports fans in Metro Detroit don’t give a 'puck' about hockey. ;) With Mr. Smith, there’s a marketing angle that can be tapped into, especially with respect to encouraging younger generations to catch on. Posters, jerseys and other merchandise can be promoted. More urban schools and social organizations may be encouraged to have "hockey game night" outings. Spending money in and around the arena. "Capitalism" and all that good stuff. :p

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

The local angle is that most black casual sports fans in Metro Detroit don’t give a 'puck' about hockey. ;) With Mr. Smith, there’s a marketing angle that can be tapped into, especially with respect to encouraging younger generations to catch on. Posters, jerseys and other merchandise can be promoted. More urban schools and social organizations may be encouraged to have "hockey game night" outings. Spending money in and around the arena. "Capitalism" and all that good stuff. :p

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I guess, but, again, there are already black NHL stars, and I doubt the cities they play in have big black audiences. Ray Emery, Kyle Okposo, Johnny Oduya, Evander Kane, Wayne Simmons, etc. Plus it would be a pretty cynical gambit to prop up a Canadian person of black descent and try and market him as some African American soul brother.

Not liking his latest plus-minus average. First impression is of a Howie Young character. Hope not. We could use some size and muscle not not a meathead who costs the team goals and wins.

It's a real stretch to think promoting a black hockey player in the Detroit market would make the average guy from the neighborhood, who can't catch a bus on his street, feel better about subsidizing the new arena. After all, did the African Americans on the Tigers give the locals a more positive opinion about subsidizing Comerica Park than the new arena? How many African Americans are even attending baseball games in the city relative to football and basketball?

If you think an African American on the Wings would help grassroots hockey interest in the city, just as having more American NHL franchises has encouraged more youth participation in general, that's great. However the cost of playing hockey, let alone the facilities, is prohibitive.

If he makes the team this year it will be a story. If they sign P.K. Suban, it will be a story.

This won't be a story unless he makes the Wings roster.

Someone should really do something about the lack of Italian Americans in the NHL. Ever since Al Iafrate retired, the league just isn't the same.

1953

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

I also don't understand the relevance of the player's race. There are plenty of black or nonwhite players in the NHL these days, including some prominent stars.

Also, the drafted player isn't African American, so it isn't like there's some "local" angle. It's a Canadian athlete who happens to be black, in what is a marginal sport in the U.S.

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That's precisely why it's a big story. I see these other black players on other teams and I say to myself, "If they were good enough to make these other teams, then why aren't they on the Red Wings?" I don't follow sports like some sports fanatics but I listen to 97.1 a lot. However, every time hockey is discussed, the Red Wings seem to go after Russian and European players. I think to myself, "What, no good African American or Afro-Canadian hockey players out there?" And then when I drive downtown all I see are white people in Red Wings jerseys. As an African American who lives in Detroit and follows all four sports teams, it would be nice to see somebody of color on the Red Wings for a change. Hey, my two cents.

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Originally Posted by royce

That's precisely why it's a big story. I see these other black players on other teams and I say to myself, "If they were good enough to make these other teams, then why aren't they on the Red Wings?" I don't follow sports like some sports fanatics but I listen to 97.1 a lot. However, every time hockey is discussed, the Red Wings seem to go after Russian and European players. I think to myself, "What, no good African American or Afro-Canadian hockey players out there?" And then when I drive downtown all I see are white people in Red Wings jerseys. As an African American who lives in Detroit and follows all four sports teams, it would be nice to see somebody of color on the Red Wings for a change. Hey, my two cents.

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As well, sport stars usually do great charitable works in the city they play for. It would be great to see a black player invest his time in inner city youth hockey leagues to show young black hockey players they too can make it to the big leagues.

I'm sure those kids know of PK Subban but they are probably gonna be much more motivated when an actual Red Wing is they same color they are and not playing for some team that comes around once or twice a year.

That's all fine and good, drafting a AA player, as more are venturing into the sport. But it's not going to move the needle in comparison to the NFL, MLB, and NBA which are still more popular in fan and player participation. I saw that the NHL is even putting a team in Las Vegas, we'll see how long that lasts.

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Originally Posted by royce

That's precisely why it's a big story. I see these other black players on other teams and I say to myself, "If they were good enough to make these other teams, then why aren't they on the Red Wings?" I don't follow sports like some sports fanatics but I listen to 97.1 a lot. However, every time hockey is discussed, the Red Wings seem to go after Russian and European players. I think to myself, "What, no good African American or Afro-Canadian hockey players out there?" And then when I drive downtown all I see are white people in Red Wings jerseys. As an African American who lives in Detroit and follows all four sports teams, it would be nice to see somebody of color on the Red Wings for a change. Hey, my two cents.

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Just as an aside, in Canada we refer to black people as African American. So a guy would be an African American Canadian as opposed to African Canadian. The American part is referring to the North American continent I suppose.

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Originally Posted by royce

"What, no good African American or Afro-Canadian hockey players out there?" And then when I drive downtown all I see are white people in Red Wings jerseys. As an African American who lives in Detroit and follows all four sports teams, it would be nice to see somebody of color on the Red Wings for a change. Hey, my two cents.

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I understand that opinion. The only issue with this line of thinking, IMHO, is you could say the exact same thing about Latinos, or Chinese, or Japanese, or Native Americans, or any other group under-represented in professional hockey. It just so happens that in Canada, and certain European countries, hockey is *massively* popular, and a lot of good players come out of those areas.

Different people like different things. Ditto with groups of people, drawn across arbitrary criteria - race, religion, etc... And that's OK. Not everyone has to like everything.

A funny true story to lighten the discussion...

The Red Wings had scored on a penalty shot, rarely called. Everyone ran for the men's room, which is typical after a goal is scored. The men's room was buzzing talking about the goal on the penalty shot. An African American man said in a loud [[stage) voice, "I don't see why it's such a big deal. All he did was sink a free throw."

The entire men's room cracked up.

"Just as an aside, in Canada we refer to black people as African American. So a guy would be an African American Canadian as opposed to African Canadian. The American part is referring to the North American continent I suppose."

And this is an example of why the concept of "race" is stupid.

Note - not calling the poster stupid.

Created by anthropologists in the early days as a way to justify the "white mans superiority" on the food chain, the concept of "race" was flawed from the very beginning.

We're all human – homo sapien sapien. Just because one has geographic variation, doesn't mean they are any less, or more, of a homo sapien sapien.

I frankly don't care if this guy is black or not. Can they hang and play? That's the only thing that should be considered, period.

I could see this being a story if he makes the Red Wings roster. I think that given Detroit's history and demographics it would be relevant especially if he wants to do some community outreach [[let's be honest, how many people in the city go to Wings games or even care about them?) but as a draft pick in 2016 it doesn't seem like a big deal.

the NHL is trying to be inclusive of everyone. The NHL has their HIFE [[Hockey is for everyone) program. It's been operating for over 20 years.

http://www.si.com/nhl/2016/06/28/nhl...youth-programs

And Zetterberg is raising funds for Clark Park rinks
http://detroithockeynews.blogspot.com/

Dave Mathews and Charlize Theron are great African Americans.

[[Just trying to make Baselinepunk's point)

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Originally Posted by 401don

Just as an aside, in Canada we refer to black people as African American. So a guy would be an African American Canadian as opposed to African Canadian. The American part is referring to the North American continent I suppose.

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Certainly not the case where my family lived in Essex and Kent Counties. Some of my family lived in places with significant black populations and they were referred to as black Canadians or Afro-Canadian. But perhaps this has changed recently, with the growth in the term African-American in the U.S.?

Oh, and yes, it would be big news if the Red Wings had a black player who was a full-time regular. There are many black players in the NHL these days, and a few black stars, but you'd never know that by the Wings, who've had very few black players over the years and none who ever became full-time regulars. Despite the fact that the Red Wings play smack dab in the middle of one of the largest black population concentrations in North America. Given the historical paucity of black players in the NHL, the history of race in the U.S., and particularly the history of race and racial relations in this area, it couldn't help but to be a big story.

To me it's not really a big deal. There are black players in the NHL. The Red Wings haven't happened to have any of them yet. I don't think there's any team that would be willing to pass up on a talented player because he was black.

I've heard some people pass some theories about how black people are both disproportionately poor, a smaller percentage of the population, have less interested in hockey, and grow up in areas where hockey isn't a high school sport. Combine all those factors with the cost of playing hockey and you get less black players.

If having a black player on the Red Wings would help develop more black fans, then it would be a very good thing for the Red Wings. But aside from that, I don't think it's that earth-shattering if they do end up having a black guy in the lineup.

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Originally Posted by 48307

I've heard some people pass some theories about how black people are both disproportionately poor, a smaller percentage of the population, have less interested in hockey, and grow up in areas where hockey isn't a high school sport. Combine all those factors with the cost of playing hockey and you get less black players.

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My hunch is that it's due to the U.S. having extremely segregated school systems and also not having hockey programs in school systems that are not predominantly white. Otherwise, it's hard to make sense of how there are more African Canadians in the NHL than African Americans. The population of black people living in the United States is larger than the entire population of Canada.

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

Oh, and yes, it would be big news if the Red Wings had a black player who was a full-time regular. There are many black players in the NHL these days, and a few black stars, but you'd never know that by the Wings, who've had very few black players over the years and none who ever became full-time regulars. Despite the fact that the Red Wings play smack dab in the middle of one of the largest black population concentrations in North America. Given the historical paucity of black players in the NHL, the history of race in the U.S., and particularly the history of race and racial relations in this area, it couldn't help but to be a big story.

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I am totally agreeing with you on this. I think it is really weird to think The Wings organization haven't scored a top ranked player. On the other hand, Subban has become a big star after his being propelled from the Habs farm team in the playoffs, scored and assisted plenty, and dazzled the hungry crowd.

The subject of skin tone doesnt really come up much here, but Russian players have often been knocked down for their nonchalance when playing for Montreal.

In the nearly 100 year history of the NHL, there have been approximately 80 Black players out of the 6,000+ players to have suited up in the league. 1/3 of those players were also bi-racial. Currently, there are approximately 22 Black players in the league out of a total of approximately 690. Therefore, the fact that the Red Wings have had one Black player in their history is far from surprising, much less the makings of any type of conspiracy.

Also, hockey is a distant fourth place as one of this country's major sports, whereas it is one of the two national sports of Canada. On the flip side, football, baseball, and basketball aren't anywhere near as popular there as they are here.

A Black Red Wings player [[not draft pick nor minor leaguer) would be a nice human interest story for Detroit in particular, but he wouldn't increase attendance nor participation. What would increase participation would be more youth leagues which would eventually lead to more play at the high school, juniors, and college levels. From there, those players could go on to the minor leagues as well as the NHL.

People spend far too much time thinking about and worrying about race. There is only one race that matters and that is the human race. Who gives a damn about a person's skin color?

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Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

People spend far too much time thinking about and worrying about race. There is only one race that matters and that is the human race. Who gives a damn about a person's skin color?

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Colorblindness isn't a virtue.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Colorblindness isn't a virtue.

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Uh, yeah it is.

That's kind of the whole point of developing a civil society; one where inherent physical characteristics don't limit ones existence.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Uh, yeah it is.

That's kind of the whole point of developing a civil society; one where inherent physical characteristics don't limit ones existence.

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Until racial inequities are rectified, color blindness is not a virtue. You may seem like a "progressive" or "open-minded" but you're not. You cannot tell me black, Hispanic, and Native communities are not disproportionately negatively affected in many ways [[crime rate, poverty, drug use, incarceration, child mortality, housing, etc) in American society. They are affected in different ways and we as a society have to try to fix them and looking at them "color-blindly" does not help.

Therefore, color blindness is not a virtue. Period.

I've been trying to stay out of this SOS, but here's my $.02. Let's forget all the racial Kool-Aid for a second. You want to be a NHL player? Then get some skates, practice your ass-off, get very good and be able to hold up your end in a pro game. I'm sure @ that point no one's going to say "Nah, she's Black".

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I've been trying to stay out of this SOS, but here's my $.02. Let's forget all the racial Kool-Aid for a second. You want to be a NHL player? Then get some skates, practice your ass-off, get very good and be able to hold up your end in a pro game. I'm sure @ that point no one's going to say "Nah, she's Black".

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Agreed, it's the only way.

Funny how when the subject is achievement skin color does not matter in our completely post-racial society. But when the subject is crime and poverty it's just a shame that those people can't get themselves together.

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Originally Posted by Shai_Hulud

Funny how when the subject is achievement skin color does not matter in our completely post-racial society. But when the subject is crime and poverty it's just a shame that those people can't get themselves together.

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And yet I know people, including myself, that did just that, with a variety of colors.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Until racial inequities are rectified, color blindness is not a virtue.

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You have it completely reversed. Until we have a color-blind society, racial inequities cannot be rectified.

You can never fix racial inequities by rejecting the ideal of a colorblind society.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

You may seem like a "progressive" or "open-minded" but you're not. You cannot tell me black, Hispanic, and Native communities are not disproportionately negatively affected in many ways [[crime rate, poverty, drug use, incarceration, child mortality, housing, etc) in American society.

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Of course they are. That has nothing to do with whether or not we should strive towards a colorblind society. And you're conflating differing outcomes with differing treatment.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Therefore, color blindness is not a virtue. Period.

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It's only not a virtue if you're racist. Otherwise, yeah, striving towards a post-racial society is certainly a virtue.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

You have it completely reversed. Until we have a color-blind society, racial inequities cannot be rectified.

You can never fix racial inequities by rejecting the ideal of a colorblind society.



Of course they are. That has nothing to do with whether or not we should strive towards a colorblind society. And you're conflating differing outcomes with differing treatment.



It's only not a virtue if you're racist. Otherwise, yeah, striving towards a post-racial society is certainly a virtue.

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So until we don't see color is how we're going to fix the problems ravaging minority communities?

I'm not saying a post-racial society isn't a virtue, indeed it is, but combating racial inequities with colorblindness is not the correct way to do it when one must look at race to fix the problem.

But obviously, you are also the expert on race relations in the US, so wtf am I talking about?

Kinda silly, Willie O'Ree broke the color barrier for the NHL[[& in the mid 1900's plenty of teams had black players)...in 1958 O'Ree's been an iconic player out here because of his stints with the L.A. Blades & esp. San Diego Gulls L.A. Kings have a huge African-American fanbase out here, [QUOTE=Hypestyles;508426]Givani Smith [[birthplace: Thornhill, Ontario) is the newest Detroit Red Wing.
Kudos and hopefully he'll have a long career, preferably locally.

I hope that the local black press isn't asleep at the wheel. I've been trying to contact an assortment of folks. This should get as much publicity as possible.

Color doesn't matter, never did in my mind. Bring us another cu!!

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nh...sion/91092346/

The Free Press had an update on Givani Smith a few weeks ago. So far, so good.

The lack of black players in the NHL is proof that there remains implicit bias against minorities. There is a disproportionate number of white players in the league.

I suggest we also commission a study to see if black players are more likely to be labelled as thugs. It would be further proof of implicit bias at work.

We clearly need to fund black youth hockey leagues, with black referees. A new law would be good. Maybe start an organization like BHM modelled on BLM.

Prior to 1900 most African Americans lived in the South and air conditioning and refrigeration were not what they are today. Ice hockey didn't take place down
South but was a community spirit during the long Canadian winters.

These are cultural components separate from racism and classism which
do exist basically everywhere for that matter - Mr. Smith might encounter
some during his NHL career, but most fans will be pleased if he helps the
Red Wings win games, want to trade him if his errors lose games, same
as with any other Red Wing player.

African Americans in Detroit are avid sports fans but since Mr. Smith is not
a Detroiter I kind of don't expect a great initial surge of interest on their
part - might be different if he is a stellar player on the order of Gretzky or
Howe.

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Originally Posted by Dumpling

Prior to 1900 most African Americans lived in the South and air conditioning and refrigeration were not what they are today. Ice hockey didn't take place down
South but was a community spirit during the long Canadian winters.

These are cultural components separate from racism and classism which
do exist basically everywhere for that matter - Mr. Smith might encounter
some during his NHL career, but most fans will be pleased if he helps the
Red Wings win games, want to trade him if his errors lose games, same
as with any other Red Wing player.

African Americans in Detroit are avid sports fans but since Mr. Smith is not
a Detroiter I kind of don't expect a great initial surge of interest on their
part - might be different if he is a stellar player on the order of Gretzky or
Howe.

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[[Leaving aside my implicit bias...)

Culture is certainly a major factor in black participation, but so is the cost of participation. Unless you live somewhere cold enough for frozen ponds for more than a few days a year, you play hockey in leagues, in a artificial and expensive rink, with expensive gear. Basketball can be played alone. Football and baseball can be played with only two. Soccer requires a few more. Hockey requires a few more... plus ice... plus gear.

As to interest, I really do think that black players from any country in the NHL will help this great sport make inroads.

OK, that's enough race talk for now. Let's leave that to BLM, and get ready to tune in the Wings on the Great Voice of the Great Lakes.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

The lack of black players in the NHL is proof that there remains implicit bias against minorities. There is a disproportionate number of white players in the league.

I suggest we also commission a study to see if black players are more likely to be labelled as thugs. It would be further proof of implicit bias at work.

We clearly need to fund black youth hockey leagues, with black referees. A new law would be good. Maybe start an organization like BHM modelled on BLM.

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Man, stop it... :mad:

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http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nh...sion/91092346/

The Free Press had an update on Givani Smith a few weeks ago. So far, so good.

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Hopefully Givani can continue to make the cut and have a role on the team here.

The NHL broke the color barrier years ago when Snopp Dogg started wearing NHL team jerseys. Many in the hip hop community followed.

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Originally Posted by dtowncitylover

Agreed, it's the only way.

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It's the only way, but hostilities run so deep with some people to the point, it's never going to be rectified. At least in my lifetime.