Which areas safe to walk all hours -incl evening?

i see a negative thread "Worst neighborhoods" and maybe 6 months ago I had two on the old board "Best" and "Worst".

More specifically which areas would you feel totally comfortable walking at night or day if by mistake you left your AK-47 at home?

I tend to wander areas in different places and police sometimes tell me "you shouldn't be here" so its best not to be left to my own devices.

My guess -Downtown is cool. I wanted to also add Jefferson/Burns area but the building I like there [[Burgess Book) has been vandalized many times and even in the last 30 days on the crime reports -there's stuff happening less than 100 yards away.

So... where?

Mexicantown [[closer to Michigan ave) and Corktown. I have lived and worked and taken the bus and walked in all sorts of places within the city because I don't have a car, and even compared to downtown and WSU area [[which really never felt safe at all) these areas always felt exceptionally safe. I used to work in Corktown and on a few occassions walked after 10pm when I got off all the way home to my place in Mexicantown and never felt threatened. I can not say that for any other area. Many people would probably disagree, though...

Almost anywhere , north of Eight Mile or west of Telegraph!

It really depends. I honestly don't think you can say anywhere is "safe" at all hours, all the time, because crime is random. The safest neighborhoods in this city have had their share of crime. Criminals are mobile, they don't hang out in one spot. And although there may be concentrations of crime, no area is totally free of it.

Welcome to Detroit... But I think this goes for any major city--Chicago, NYC, Los Angeles, etc.

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Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

It really depends. I honestly don't think you can say anywhere is "safe" at all hours, all the time, because crime is random. The safest neighborhoods in this city have had their share of crime. Criminals are mobile, they don't hang out in one spot. And although there may be concentrations of crime, no area is totally free of it.

Welcome to Detroit... But I think this goes for any major city--Chicago, NYC, Los Angeles, etc.

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I have to agree. The important thing is to use common sense. Stay out of dark alleys, don't initiate trouble for yourself, and be aware of your surroundings.

No areas are really safe if you're looking to carpet bag or slumlord.

People won't welcome you with open arms.

east detroit - You have the same integrity as kwame without the education.

On the last thread you trolled that i lectured people about eating fish caught in the river - then you hid when I asked you for some evidence or a link.

Cowards like you can hide and lie behind anonymous screen names- very classy!

Did I say anything about going into rental properties? I just want an old building that has architectural value that I can use for a summer home as the summers are hot here. I could lease out a floor but that's more for someone to watch rather than to be a landlord.

As others have explained to you - Detroit needs all the investors it can find - one building at a time. Get a job and buy your own house - instead of being jealous of others - even you can afford one at these prices.

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Originally Posted by Ocean2026

east detroit - You have the same integrity as kwame without the education.

On the last thread you trolled that i lectured people about eating fish caught in the river - then you hid when I asked you for some evidence or a link.

Cowards like you can hide and lie behind anonymous screen names- very classy!

Did I say anything about going into rental properties? I just want an old building that has architectural value that I can use for a summer home as the summers are hot here. I could lease out a floor but that's more for someone to watch rather than to be a landlord.

As others have explained to you - Detroit needs all the investors it can find - one building at a time. Get a job and buy your own house - instead of being jealous of others - even you can afford one at these prices.

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Do you turn hostile that quickly in real life? If so, you probably shouldn't walk around Detroit at all. Eventually someone will try to talk shit to you, and if you respond like that you'll probably get your ass kicked. Just a bit of friendly advice...

No lol it took him doing this twice - he finds where I post talks about carpetbaggers and whatever else is bothering him and then when I call him on it -he hides.

This was a nice thread until he trolled it. I do alright in most "bad" neighborhoods but am only used to Buffalo - Pittsburgh - Cincy- DC. I just like looking at nice old buildings -when people ask me "What are you doing here -can I help you?" I just ask what they know about the building I'm looking at.

This thread - read the title -was basically asking about other people's experiences, not giving East Detroit more opportunities to vent about his issues.

He's certainly free to start his own thread about Carpetbaggers - people with jobs - or whatever he's too cheap to pay his shrink to work out for him lol

I walk through brush park daily and haven't had any problems. Loneliness is the biggest problem no one else about. I walk from campus martius to med center. I'm thinking the more people walking about the safer things are.

thanks -Brush Park area has lots of nice buildings too from what I understand.

Detroit does not need more "landlords", especially those not available year-round.

Yes, I have a job. Yes, I own a house.

No, I don't like ... what's the new politically correct term.... "distance challenged landlords [[DCL)".

No, I won't do free tours or take free pictures or give a free community report to a potential DCL.

Yes, I will comment that we do not welcome DCLs.

Especially those who alternate between asking for free property information and then slamming Detroit or Detroiters. Such as when said potential-DCL remarked that Detroiters are stupid for importing their "seafood" with the Detroit River in such close proximity. It was in the Harmonie Park thread... unless it was deleted.

No apologies. No DCLs. We aren't that desperate. You won't encounter a red carpet.

Midtown is probably the safest. I've never had any trouble there at all. I've walked at all times of the day/night and never had a problem. But to be safe, lets say north of MLK.

New Center if fairly safe at all times. I've never been scared to walk there at night.

Downtown is safe at all times. The most well known by suburbanites. The riverwalk is also safe the entire span.

Corktown is okay to walk at night, but only in popluated areas. I'm too scared to walk in areas with just industrial buildings, empty lots or surface parking.

Mexicantown/West Vernor is okay all times. As with Springwells to the west.

...and then there is Woodbridge. I live here. I'm never scared to go out at night, but I've heard countless stories of muggings. I know dozens of people who have been held up in woodbridge, many of them several times. This isn't true of other neighborhoods I listed outside isolated incidents. But I have yet to encounter / be a victim of a mugging.

If these neighborhoods, along with a few others, were integrated better, and were more built up, Detroit could have a huge urban core of stable up and coming neighborhoods.

Sigh. You can actually walk plenty of other neighborhoods besides the ones that are always mentioned here during the daytime. [[Yes, even if you're white.)

It's a block-by-block, sometimes house-by-house thing. Just get to know people who live there and they can give you the scoop. [[That's a general rule of thumb ANYWHERE on the globe, actually.)

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Originally Posted by English

Sigh. You can actually walk plenty of other neighborhoods besides the ones that are always mentioned here during the daytime. [[Yes, even if you're white.)

It's a block-by-block, sometimes house-by-house thing. Just get to know people who live there and they can give you the scoop. [[That's a general rule of thumb ANYWHERE on the globe, actually.)

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English is spot on.

I don't know if I would say downtown is safe, or the Riverwalk. I haven't fogotten the bloody t-shirt I saw one morning on a park bench in Hart Plaza. Never found out what happened, but that much blood did not come from a papercut.

I guess I would say that any area can be dangerous if the right combination of people come together there. Just because nothing has happened to YOU, doesn't mean an area is safe. You simply have to use common sense, and be hyper-aware of your surroundings and people in them.

Even here in rural Minnesota, I don't like to walk any of the towns alone at night, and even a late night trip to Wal-Mart has me watching everyone closely. I don't care where you go, you are not 100% safe. Just some places you are less safe than others.

Corktown, Hubbard farms, Hubbard Richard, CBD, Lafayette park, Indian village, University district, Rosedale, Grandmont, Palmer woods, West village, sherwood forest, East English village, New center commons, woodbridge, Palmer Park...
Areas that are OK... Boston Edison, Lasalle gardens, Brush Park, Morningside, Bagley. to name a few...
I personally even feel comfortable in brightmoor so I guess I am the exception.... Honestly I walk my lab mix all over and never have a problem....

Urban, what's the lab mixed with, Satan? LOL. I though I saw a couple of nubby horns poking out! No wonder you feel safe!

Just kidding. Keeping it light.

I would agree any of those areas feel safe to walk, but with the way I look, few people would probably mess with me.

As to East Detroit's carpetbagging issue, I guess I fall into that cagtegory. I was born and raised in Detroit, haven't live there in 20+ years, but recently bought a home in Southfield which I plan to live in half the year to start.

Like many of the other posters, I can afford to restore only one house, but wanted ample land, and the closest I could find an acre of woods near Detroit was Southfield, and have already used several Detroit sources to aid in the renovation.

The architectural salvage place on Grand River, local lumber and flooring stores, tile is next, local plumbing, heating, and tree/landscaping companies. I fully intend to use local sourcing for the work, and feel it contributes to the economy.

If the home had sold to someone else, it would probably have been a rental, and wouldn't have had the kind of work done to it as I am doing.

I disagree with East Detroit in the concept of not encouraging out-of towners to buy and lease homes. There are enough empty ones that could be occupied- which is the key here, and whether or not they're rentals or not, locals who can no longer afford to own their own home, had job losses, etc, need to rent.

Certainly corporate owners of large numbers of houses is not the ideal situation, but individual investors with fewer than a dozen homes to rent doesn't bother me.

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Originally Posted by Lorax

Urban, what's the lab mixed with, Satan? LOL. I though I saw a couple of nubby horns poking out! No wonder you feel safe!

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I am no good at photo shop so no horns in this pic... Well I guess for a 60 lb lab mix she could be intimidating but I think people are much less likely to approach you when you have a dog with you unless they are dog lovers.... :D

i was walking my bike down a busy congress st at randolph last night after the games and one of a group of guys right behind told me "i'm going to kill you". great place to walk

Urban, your lab is too cute to be intimidating! Great pic.

Gravitywalker, I agree a group against one person IS intimidating, and I have been accosted verbally downtown in years past, but I have been robbed at gunpoint in Chicago on a street of million-dollar houses, so go figure.

Sorry, Gravitymachine. I was thinking space/Luke Skywalker when calling you Gravitywalker.

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Originally Posted by gravitymachine

i was walking my bike down a busy congress st at randolph last night after the games and one of a group of guys right behind told me "i'm going to kill you". great place to walk

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There was lots of trash littering all over the place last night. I had one dude tell me that I had a cool hoody but I shouldn't be wearing it because im not a nigger. Then something about representing which at that point I had walked away. I think some people really get a thrill from pushing others buttons for the sake of it. It's like their own lives are so decrepit that it's pure entertianment to make a huge ass of themselves in an attempt to make others feel the most uncomfortable.

There are plenty of places around here that I feel comfortable walking in at any hour, but there are the ones that make me nervous whenever. They might be the same exact neigborhood. Just keep your eyes open and blend in as well as you can.

I think that goes for most places. While staying in a relatively nice hotel in downtown Albuquerque, I felt perfectly safe walking wherever, but a co-worker was mugged on a street immediately behind the building.

I had car problems and had to stop on Lahser just south of McNichols. I felt perfectly comfortable there, but a man came out of his apartment to watch over me while I waited for AAA, because he didn't want anything bad to happen.

Staying in DC, I walked everywhere, any time, while local co-workers were shocked that I did that and survived. So far, I have luckily met only very friendly helpful people.

Lets be honest here. You can be safe in most.. not all areas in Detroit. In depends on your attitude and street smarts. Some people walk down the street looking like a mugging waiting to happen. Other people can send a message to strangers they pass on the street by giving them a look that says 'don't even think about messing with me' People are always sizing you up no matter where you walk and if you look like easy pickings they will try you. Thats just about any city. Toronto was the only city I felt I could let my guard down.

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Originally Posted by firstandten

Lets be honest here. You can be safe in most.. not all areas in Detroit. In depends on your attitude and street smarts. Some people walk down the street looking like a mugging waiting to happen. Other people can send a message to strangers they pass on the street by giving them a look that says 'don't even think about messing with me' People are always sizing you up no matter where you walk and if you look like easy pickings they will try you. Thats just about any city.

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Exactly. Ninety percent of succeeding in any situation is acting like you belong there.

Of course, anything can happen to any one at any time in any given neighborhood. So I keep my guard up all the time -- whether I'm in Brightmoor or Brighton.

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Originally Posted by firstandten

Lets be honest here. You can be safe in most.. not all areas in Detroit. In depends on your attitude and street smarts. Some people walk down the street looking like a mugging waiting to happen. Other people can send a message to strangers they pass on the street by giving them a look that says 'don't even think about messing with me' People are always sizing you up no matter where you walk and if you look like easy pickings they will try you. Thats just about any city. Toronto was the only city I felt I could let my guard down.

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as a whitegirl growing up in detroit i can tell you that this is absolutely correct.

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Originally Posted by Johnnyrocker

I would say just about every area is safe, but then again I have a CCW and a .40 cal. If you are feeling adventurous try McNichols and cameron ask for "shorty" he will show you around.

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You can have a .40 on your hip and a .38 in your pocket, if somebody gets the jump on you it's over.

The neighborhoods around Balduck Park on the far east side are pretty safe, even to walk at night. There are no alleys in those neighborhoods, aside from the alleys behind the business strips.

I can't speak for other neighborhoods...

It seems like the criminals are the same as in any other major city--they're out there waiting for the right opportunity, but there are fewer people walking around Detroit making it seem like a far more desolate and dangerous place. Abandoned neighborhoods seem far more dangerous than busy neighborhoods with people walking all around you.

Worst thing that happened to me yet happened in East Dearborn.,and I was in my car.So stuff just happens all round.

Ocean, I am not sure you would be safe walking anywhere in Detroit at night. Compared to major cities, Detroit is not a safe city. There is no comparison between New York, Chicago, San Francisco, and Detroit. To claim they are on the same civic level is a lie. The only major US city that comes close in terms of danger is Miami.

Detroit is no longer a major city itself. It should be compared more accurately to St. Louis, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Minneapolis/StPaul, Nashville, Charlotte, New Orleans, etc. In that comparison, Detroit is not the worst, but it is right there at the bottom and always in the running. Do yourself a favor Ocean, do not wander around Detroit without a local.

Chicago is safe? Really? Detmich, go to Chi-town, wander around, say, E 71st and S Jeffery for a couple hours. Have your loved ones post a message here and let me know how it went.

All cities have rough neighborhoods, and always have. Big cities and cities with a lot of disinvestment have more of them. There are parts of Detroit where I feel comfortable walking around any time of day or night, like the West Vernor part of Mexicantown, and there are parts of Detroit I never feel comfortable on foot, like East Vernor around Cadillac. The same holds for New York, Chicago, Denver, any major city I've spent time in.

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Originally Posted by professorscott

Chicago is safe? Really? Detmich, go to Chi-town, wander around, say, E 71st and S Jeffery for a couple hours. Have your loved ones post a message here and let me know how it went.

All cities have rough neighborhoods, and always have. Big cities and cities with a lot of disinvestment have more of them. There are parts of Detroit where I feel comfortable walking around any time of day or night, like the West Vernor part of Mexicantown, and there are parts of Detroit I never feel comfortable on foot, like East Vernor around Cadillac. The same holds for New York, Chicago, Denver, any major city I've spent time in.

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Without belaboring a point, the fact that you need to point out where it might be safe to walk illustrates the underlying issue that Detroit is not safe. Millions of tourists and business people visit Chicago every year and wander around on foot from Millenium Park and the museums up north to the Gold Coast without a care. Even more visit New York and never worry for a second as they stumble around Manhattan. That is not the situation in Detroit. You know that, and your denials don't alter the plain and simple fact that Detroit has an outrageous and oversized crime problem.

Perhaps it is a symptom of a dying city. That is why I think comparing it to other cities of its own size is relevant. The thriving ones, Milwaukee, Mpls/Stpaul, have much lower crime rates. The dying ones, St Louis, New Orleans, Baltimore have very similar crime situations. The funny thing is, no one in NO or Baltimore or STL denies the horrible crime rate. Detroiters just can't seem to get to the point that they will admit the reality of the situation. That apppears to be the MO in every aspect of the region, from dealing with the car industry to discussing Cobo Hall, or analyzing race relations.

Anyway, saying that Detroit is safe on this website will not help the situation in the least. But let yourself have a go at it, since everyone else in town seems to be doing so.

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Originally Posted by detmich

Without belaboring a point, the fact that you need to point out where it might be safe to walk illustrates the underlying issue that Detroit is not safe. Millions of tourists and business people visit Chicago every year and wander around on foot from Millenium Park and the museums up north to the Gold Coast without a care. Even more visit New York and never worry for a second as they stumble around Manhattan. That is not the situation in Detroit. You know that, and your denials don't alter the plain and simple fact that Detroit has an outrageous and oversized crime problem.

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So when people go to visit New York or Chicago you never hear them asking which places are safe or not to visit? Really? I don't think so. I don't know where you are getting your opinion from but its kind of off. Because someone not familiar with an area asks which places are generally safe to walk does not automatically mean that the entire area is unsafe. My parents used to ask which parts of Manhattan were cool to walk in and during what time, does that mean that all of Manhattan is a crime infested hell hole filled with people in denial about how much of an hell hole it is?

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Originally Posted by President Sekou

So when people go to visit New York or Chicago you never hear them asking which places are safe or not to visit? Really? I don't think so. I don't know where you are getting your opinion from but its kind of off. Because someone not familiar with an area asks which places are generally safe to walk does not automatically mean that the entire area is unsafe. My parents used to ask which parts of Manhattan were cool to walk in and during what time, does that mean that all of Manhattan is a crime infested hell hole filled with people in denial about how much of an hell hole it is?

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No mayor. When someone asks where is it safe to walk in Manhattan the answer is "anywhere". When someone asks is it safe to walk in downtown Chicago to visit the museums or shop or see the architecture or walk from their hotel to Wrigley Field the answer is simply "yes". That is not the answer in Detroit. You know that, and you are simply being facetious because of a misplaced defensive response.

No tourist visiting Detroit should be walking around at night without a local, period. No respectable hotel that I have been to in Detroit recommends that its out of town guests walk around after dark. That is the truth, not just some made up willy nilly grab for straws. The staff at those hotels are absolutely correct in doing so. If you were to stay at a hotel in Queens outside of Kennedy airport the staff does the same thing because that area of Queens is not safe. The problem in Detroit is that the entire city is unsafe relative to major cities in the US. You can pretend that visiting Detroit is just as safe as visiting Boston, but that only exposes the weakness of your position, because any reasonable and sane person who has visitied both cities would know that you are lying.

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Originally Posted by detmich

No mayor. When someone asks where is it safe to walk in Manhattan the answer is "anywhere". When someone asks is it safe to walk in downtown Chicago to visit the museums or shop or see the architecture or walk from their hotel to Wrigley Field the answer is simply "yes". That is not the answer in Detroit. You know that, and you are simply being facetious because of a misplaced defensive response.

No tourist visiting Detroit should be walking around at night without a local, period. No respectable hotel that I have been to in Detroit recommends that its out of town guests walk around after dark. That is the truth, not just some made up willy nilly grab for straws. The staff at those hotels are absolutely correct in doing so. If you were to stay at a hotel in Queens outside of Kennedy airport the staff does the same thing because that area of Queens is not safe. The problem in Detroit is that the entire city is unsafe relative to major cities in the US. You can pretend that visiting Detroit is just as safe as visiting Boston, but that only exposes the weakness of your position, because any reasonable and sane person who has visitied both cities would know that you are lying.

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If I were to accept your position I would state that all of Chicago is extremely dangerous because of Englewood or all of New York is dangerous because of Jamaica Queens. Your generalizing unnecessarily. Some parts of Detroit are dangerous, while others aren't. That's not the position of an apologist thats a realistic assesment of life here just as it is in every major city in the world.

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Originally Posted by President Sekou

If I were to accept your position I would state that all of Chicago is extremely dangerous because of Englewood or all of New York is dangerous because of Jamaica Queens. Your generalizing unnecessarily. Some parts of Detroit are dangerous, while others aren't. That's not the position of an apologist thats a realistic assesment of life here just as it is in every major city in the world.

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You probably would make those statements, and they would in fact be the position of an apologist. You would also be trapped in a logical fallacy, but that is a lesson for another time.There is no argument where there is not fact or reason. So I never think that I will change your position. You will cling to your belief as stubbornly as a born again clings to Genesis. Reality does not matter and the truth will not cause the scales to fall from your eyes.

I do think that someone like Ocean might be fooled into thinking that he or she could come to Detroit and wander around to take in the delicious local flavor. To allow that to happen would be irresponsible to say the least.

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Some parts of Detroit are dangerous, while others aren't. That's not the position of an apologist thats a realistic assesment of life here just as it is in every major city in the world.

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Sounds accurate to me.

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When someone asks is it safe to walk in downtown Chicago to visit the museums or shop or see the architecture or walk from their hotel to Wrigley Field the answer is simply "yes". That is not the answer in Detroit.

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You are wrong. The cultural center and areas around the arenas in Detroit are safe.

Check in as a guest at the Ren Cen Marriott. That evening, after dark, tell the concierge that you are from out of town and want to walk over to the Book Cadillac. See what the response is.

Now, check in at the Drake in CHicago, and say that you want to walk down to the Nikko for Sushi. Tell me what the answer is. Do the same thin walking from the Pierre to La Bernadin in New York. You know full well what the answer will be.

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Check in as a guest at the Ren Cen Marriott. That evening, after dark, tell the concierge that you are from out of town and want to walk over to the Book Cadillac. See what the response is.

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Take the People Mover?

I grew up in Detroit but lived in Chicago for 20 years. Detmich makes some comments that are correct...downtown Chicago and many neighborhoods in the city are far safer than Detroit. I say that as a native Detroiter and a supporter of the city. However, in any city you need to take precautions...know where you are...act appropriately. I have been in many areas of Chicago that are equally as threatening as some in Detroit. There are just many more areas that you can safely walk there...

1) Far-east, near Harper Woods/St. John Hospital. I believe a lot of cops still live over there. If nothing else, they'll keep their own block safe, one would think.

2) Telegraph/Grand River.

3) Downtown-From the Rencen and Cobo to at least Comerica park, probably even a bit further, and Greektown. I would even say Chene Park isnt too bad.

4) The apartments on the River-Harbortown, Riverfront towers, etc.

5)Berry subdivision, now that Kwame isnt throwing any more [[alleged) parties

"When someone asks where is it safe to walk in Manhattan the answer is "anywhere". When someone asks is it safe to walk in downtown Chicago to visit the museums or shop or see the architecture or walk from their hotel to Wrigley Field the answer is simply "yes". That is not the answer in Detroit."

That might be the answer you'll get in Manhattan or Chicago but it wouldn't be true. I've been to parts of both downtowns where I didn't feel safe walking around at night. As others have stated, crime can occur anywhere and in big cities, the idea that you can wander wherever you want at night oblivious to the potential for crime is ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"When someone asks where is it safe to walk in Manhattan the answer is "anywhere". When someone asks is it safe to walk in downtown Chicago to visit the museums or shop or see the architecture or walk from their hotel to Wrigley Field the answer is simply "yes". That is not the answer in Detroit."

That might be the answer you'll get in Manhattan or Chicago but it wouldn't be true. I've been to parts of both downtowns where I didn't feel safe walking around at night. As others have stated, crime can occur anywhere and in big cities, the idea that you can wander wherever you want at night oblivious to the potential for crime is ludicrous.

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Here, let me help you guys with this:

"I'm rubber you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you"

"I know you are but what am I?"

"No, you are."

Keep repeating the mantra, that is the only way a mantra has power correct?

http://www.freep.com/article/2009040...oit+police+say

Pretty good report after the Final Four for such a dangerous place.

"Keep repeating the mantra, that is the only way a mantra has power correct?"

I'm sorry, I didn't know that what you said trumped what any of us has experienced. I apologize and bow before your genius.

How about some statistics backing up your claim that going anywhere in Detroit is less safe than going anywhere in Manhattan or Chicago. That shouldn't be too difficult for you to show.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"
I'm sorry, I didn't know that what you said trumped what any of us has experienced. I apologize and bow before your genius.

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You are forgiven.

Clearly this dude has never been outside the tourist areas of any major city in America, so why are you all bothering responding to his stupidity?

Hey no name calling IHD.

The difference is, in major metropolises you can wander around on foot for several hours and never be in an area that is "dangerous", for lack of a better word. In Detroit, or St Louis, or New Orleans, you can wander around for several blocks, at best, before you are "in a heap o' trouble, boy". The difference is that StL and NO admit the problem, while Detroiters haven't gotten past the first step in their twelve step program.

Again, I am not saying people shouldn't visit Detroit. Just that encouraging them to wander around on foot is a dis-service. I suppose that the truth often hurts.

"The difference is, in major metropolises you can wander around on foot for several hours and never be in an area that is "dangerous", for lack of a better word."

What cities have you visited? You're delusional if you think this is true.

Novine, try 100% of Manhattan, 95% of Queens and Staten Island, and 80% of Brooklyn and the Bronx.

All these areas are completely safe to walk around in during daylight hours, and almost all are safe at night.

In Detroit, it would be something like 30% of the city is completely safe to walk around during daylight hours.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"The difference is, in major metropolises you can wander around on foot for several hours and never be in an area that is "dangerous", for lack of a better word."

What cities have you visited? You're delusional if you think this is true.

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Again Novine, Detroit is not that different from many other of America's dying smaller cities. Baltimore, Cleveland, StL, Kansas City, et cetera. The "delusion", I would call it "denial", is this silly claim that Detroit is still a thriving major metropolitan center. Sadly, it is not. That doesn't mean that there aren't cool things about Detroit, but being a walker friendly city isn't one of them.

Maybe Detroiters just need to grow up? I don't know. I do know that denying the truth does not change it.

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Originally Posted by detmich

Again Novine, Detroit is not that different from many other of America's dying smaller cities. Baltimore, Cleveland, StL, Kansas City, et cetera. The "delusion", I would call it "denial", is this silly claim that Detroit is still a thriving major metropolitan center. Sadly, it is not. That doesn't mean that there aren't cool things about Detroit, but being a walker friendly city isn't one of them.

Maybe Detroiters just need to grow up? I don't know. I do know that denying the truth does not change it.

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Where on Earth are you getting the information that Baltimore or the other cities mentioned are dying? Baltimore is expected to gain population in the next census and has many thriving areas/neighborhoods. Yes, it has tough pockets and sections but it has no where near the problems Detroit is facing.
Also, walking is very much an option in Baltimore as I do it daily. Would I have 10-15 years ago? Probably not. But today without hesitation. Sadly, misery wants company so lumping other places into Detroit's madhouse does not help.

I've come to the conclusion that he has no idea what he is talking about, anyone naive enough to assume all of Chicago and NY is completely safe to walk about, and all of Detroit is completely unsafe is not worth arguing with. Only Siths and idiots deal in absolutes.

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Originally Posted by President Sekou

I've come to the conclusion that he has no idea what he is talking about, anyone naive enough to assume all of Chicago and NY is completely safe to walk about, and all of Detroit is completely unsafe is not worth arguing with. Only Siths and idiots deal in absolutes.

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Not all of anywhere is perfectly safe. The problem, relatively speaking, none of Detroit is. Nicely deflected though, the person who says the truth is obviously an idiot. How's the real estate selling in Detroit? I'll bet since prices are down people are swarming into those really cheap safe areas right in Downtown. You folks are right, All those buyers must know something I don't.

When someone asks where is it safe to walk in Manhattan the answer is "anywhere".

Wrong. Some areas north of 100th is sorta shady at night [[Spanish Harlem, Inwood, Washington Heights, etc). How about the projects on the Lower East Side?

You're right, Detroit has no completely safe zones. However, the areas most visited and walked are alright if you're smart about how you go about your business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crawford

Novine, try 100% of Manhattan, 95% of Queens and Staten Island, and 80% of Brooklyn and the Bronx.

All these areas are completely safe to walk around in during daylight hours, and almost all are safe at night.

In Detroit, it would be something like 30% of the city is completely safe to walk around during daylight hours.

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Uhhhh, you're trying to tell me that 100% of Manhattan is "completely safe" during daylight hours? Sorry, no.

Of course, no place is completely safe, and some are more dangerous than others. You can't let your life be determined by fear, however.

My kids and I walk around my Detroit neighborhood [[Woodbridge) almost every day. Nothing has happened to us yet, and I'm not stupid enough to move away from my city just because I am not perfectly safe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoHeartAnthony

You're right, Detroit has no completely safe zones.

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Thank you. All I am saying is that it is untruthful and irresponsible to tell someone like Ocean that they can come on up to Detroit and wander around the city on foot to get a feel for the neighborhoods. Why this gets so much anger in response is beyond me. Kill the messenger perhaps?

I think a guy like Ocean is free to wander if he so chooses. He better do his research though, know his directions, and be well-prepared for what ever comes his way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoHeartAnthony

When someone asks where is it safe to walk in Manhattan the answer is "anywhere".

Wrong. Some areas north of 100th is sorta shady at night [[Spanish Harlem, Inwood, Washington Heights, etc). How about the projects on the Lower East Side?

You're right, Detroit has no completely safe zones. However, the areas most visited and walked are alright if you're smart about how you go about your business.

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Um, I said [[and we were talking about) daytime. No place in Manhattan is remotely unsafe during daytime hours.

No, not East Harlem, not Washington Heights and not Inwood.

No, it is not unsafe to walk past a housing project in Manhattan [[you do realize there is public housing in every neighborhood in Manhattan, even the very best ones?).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prodigal_Son

Uhhhh, you're trying to tell me that 100% of Manhattan is "completely safe" during daylight hours? Sorry, no.

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I do not know how to to come up with a safety barometer, but I am sure of this: there is no neighborhood anywhere in Manhattan that could be compared with Woodbridge in Detroit in terms of relative safety.

Woodbridge is MUCH more dangerous than anything in Manhattan. Whether it's fine for you is another question; everyone has their own personal requirement of minimum safety.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crawford

Um, I said [[and we were talking about) daytime. No place in Manhattan is remotely unsafe during daytime hours.

No, not East Harlem, not Washington Heights and not Inwood.

No, it is not unsafe to walk past a housing project in Manhattan [[you do realize there is public housing in every neighborhood in Manhattan, even the very best ones?).

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I quoted detmich, not you.

But anyway, you should probably stop dealing in absolutes, it's pretty illogical. There has been crime committed in the daytime in Manhattan, believe it or not. You're acting as if it would NEVER happen.

This is a stupid thread.

I second Bear's remark.
This thread was not totally doomed at its outset, but it quickly sank.
Just for the record, I don't think the corner of Livernois & Tireman looks that scary or dangerous.
If you walk around with an anxious, hope-I-get-out-of-here-alive look, every spot in every city is dangerous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravine

I second Bear's remark.
This thread was not totally doomed at its outset, but it quickly sank.
Just for the record, I don't think the corner of Livernois & Tireman looks that scary or dangerous.
If you walk around with an anxious, hope-I-get-out-of-here-alive look, every spot in every city is dangerous.

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Again, a lie to make Detroiters feel better about Detroit. You could look like that all day on the Miracle Mile of Michigan Avenue and no one would bother you. You could do the same thing just up and down Park, Madison, or 5th in Manhattan. PLease, let's just call a spade a spade, Detroit is dangerous. So why deny it?

"Detroit is dangerous. So why deny it?"

Because it's not true. No doubt there's parts of Detroit that aren't safe. No one has denied that. Your claim that everywhere in Detroit is unsafe is a lie. I'm a typical suburbanite. I've walked various stretches of Woodward [[and the Miracle Mile in Chicago and 5th in NYC) where a typical tourist might go both during the day and night. I've never felt like my personal safety is at risk or that I'm in a dangerous area. I've been in enough good and bad parts of big cities across the US to know the difference. It's an obsession with you to repeat that lie and I know you'll continue to do so. But repeating it doesn't make it true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoHeartAnthony

I quoted detmich, not you.

But anyway, you should probably stop dealing in absolutes, it's pretty illogical. There has been crime committed in the daytime in Manhattan, believe it or not. You're acting as if it would NEVER happen.

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Of course; there's obviously lots of crime in all big cities [[excepting maybe Japan or Singapore).

My point isn't that Manhattan doesn't have crime; it's that on a relative basis, it cannot be compared to Detroit. Yes, bad things happen in Manhattan too, but the statistics for that jurisdiction are wildly different than the statistics for Detroit.

Manhattan's crime rate is below the NYC average, and NYC's crime rate is basically one-fifth of Detroit's crime, so Manhattan is logically MUCH safer than the vast majority of Detroit.

This has been a good thread.

Let me clarify - and maybe fine tune it.

One can look at statistics and show for example that Detroit has more assaultive crime than NYC and way more than say El Paso-ok we don't need to argue that. Years of statistics will win out over anecdotal evidence [[ie. "but my uncle knew someone who had a YUGO and it drove just fine")

Likewise we can all agree that a violent crime can happen in any neighborhood in America and such happens frequently.


What I'm getting at is areas where one can generally walk without being even hassled, sized up as potential prey, and where there isn't any visible signs of current or recent activity. So if you're walking on the riverfront and a car blares by stops and the occupants get out and shoot you, its not necessarily that that neigbhorhood isn't safe its more a Detroit of Urban Crime incident. Likewise there may be some areas that are really vacant. They might not look nice and they can be extremely poor but perhaps have few occupants --maybe older residents that haven't been able to flee or fix things up.

Maybe areas that "feel " safe 24/7 would have been a better title.

"but my uncle knew someone who had a YUGO and it drove just fine"

I liked Nick and Nora's Infinite Playlist.

Just now re-checking this thread and noticing that detmich called my statement "a lie to make Detroiters feel better about Detroit."
Bullshit. And, if you're going to shuffle around this forum calling statements with which you disagree "lies," you will be spending a lot of time getting your ass kicked.
My statement is not a lie. Predators smell fear, and that scent is not blown away by the wind in Chicago, nor is it covered up by the stench of garbage in Manhattan.
I'm not trying to make anyone feel better, or worse, about anything. In fact, I have been repeatedly castigated for making comments, about Detroit, which were perceived as being overly negative, arguably racist, or just too snide for the tender ears of some of our more zealously defensive Pro-Detroit associates.
In any case, detmich, feel free to continue picking a fight with me. I'm sure the rest of the forum will enjoy the results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravine

Just now re-checking this thread and noticing that detmich called my statement "a lie to make Detroiters feel better about Detroit."
Bullshit. And, if you're going to shuffle around this forum calling statements with which you disagree "lies," you will be spending a lot of time getting your ass kicked.
My statement is not a lie. Predators smell fear, and that scent is not blown away by the wind in Chicago, nor is it covered up by the stench of garbage in Manhattan.
I'm not trying to make anyone feel better, or worse, about anything. In fact, I have been repeatedly castigated for making comments, about Detroit, which were perceived as being overly negative, arguably racist, or just too snide for the tender ears of some of our more zealously defensive Pro-Detroit associates.
In any case, detmich, feel free to continue picking a fight with me. I'm sure the rest of the forum will enjoy the results.

---

Not trying to pick a fight with anyone. If anything, the fights were picked with me for stating the obvious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravine

If you walk around with an anxious, hope-I-get-out-of-here-alive look, every spot in every city is dangerous.

---

That, Ravine, is quite simply a falsehood. I'll say it again, on the corner of 5th Avenue and 57th street that look will not put you in danger. It's on the faces of tourists everyday. Nor will it put you in danger on Michigan at the Water Tower. Nor on Boston's Freedom trail. Attack me and say I am being contentious all you wish.

All I said is it is irresponsible to tell someone who is visiting Detroit for the first time that it is safe for them to walk around town. That seems to have set of a cacophony of bullshit in response.

"All I said is it is irresponsible to tell someone who is visiting Detroit for the first time that it is safe for them to walk around town."
OK; we can shake on that one, detmich.
But, while we may agree more than we disagree, that is not all you said. You called my comment "a lie," and compounded the affront by presuming to identify my reason for making the comment. Kinda pissed me off, but I'm not going to harbor any ill will over it or chase you down on the playground during Recess.
I still say the look I described is a magnet for trouble in any city where there are nogoodniks wandering around looking for folks to take advantage of, and I would like to think that you are not suggesting that Chicago & New York are free of that character-type.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detmich

Not trying to pick a fight with anyone. If anything, the fights were picked with me for stating the obvious.


That, Ravine, is quite simply a falsehood. I'll say it again, on the corner of 5th Avenue and 57th street that look will not put you in danger. It's on the faces of tourists everyday. Nor will it put you in danger on Michigan at the Water Tower. Nor on Boston's Freedom trail. Attack me and say I am being contentious all you wish.

All I said is it is irresponsible to tell someone who is visiting Detroit for the first time that it is safe for them to walk around town. That seems to have set of a cacophony of bullshit in response.

---

There are other parts to Boston, Chicago, and NYC than the most popular areas. Just sayin'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ravine

"All I said is it is irresponsible to tell someone who is visiting Detroit for the first time that it is safe for them to walk around town."
OK; we can shake on that one, detmich.
But, while we may agree more than we disagree, that is not all you said. You called my comment "a lie," and compounded the affront by presuming to identify my reason for making the comment. Kinda pissed me off, but I'm not going to harbor any ill will over it or chase you down on the playground during Recess.
I still say the look I described is a magnet for trouble in any city where there are nogoodniks wandering around looking for folks to take advantage of, and I would like to think that you are not suggesting that Chicago & New York are free of that character-type.

---

Ravine- Yeah I was tired of getting beat up, so I did call it a little too strongly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NoHeartAnthony

There are other parts to Boston, Chicago, and NYC than the most popular areas. Just sayin'.

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Of course, no one said otherwise.

And those other areas are probably a little more dangerous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ocean2026

This has been a good thread.

Let me clarify - and maybe fine tune it.

One can look at statistics and show for example that Detroit has more assaultive crime than NYC and way more than say El Paso-ok we don't need to argue that. Years of statistics will win out over anecdotal evidence [[ie. "but my uncle knew someone who had a YUGO and it drove just fine")

Likewise we can all agree that a violent crime can happen in any neighborhood in America and such happens frequently.


What I'm getting at is areas where one can generally walk without being even hassled, sized up as potential prey, and where there isn't any visible signs of current or recent activity. So if you're walking on the riverfront and a car blares by stops and the occupants get out and shoot you, its not necessarily that that neigbhorhood isn't safe its more a Detroit of Urban Crime incident. Likewise there may be some areas that are really vacant. They might not look nice and they can be extremely poor but perhaps have few occupants --maybe older residents that haven't been able to flee or fix things up.

Maybe areas that "feel " safe 24/7 would have been a better title.

---

I'd say you have a pretty good understanding of things, I wouldn't be too worried about violence. But here is my take on a few "nice" neighborhoods:

University District, [[where I grew up and my parents still live): Safe and Walkable- But there is no where really to walk to. Same I believe to be true of Palmer Woods, Sherwood Forest, Green Acres, and Rosedale park.

Boston Edison: Lots of home for your money, safe of physical harm, some chance your home will get broken into.

Woodbridge: great community, walking distance to bars & restaurants. Because it is such a "nice" community and because of the nievity of WSU students criminals sometimes see it as an easy target for petty theft, muggings. Kind of annoying but the worst that will happen is that someone will break your car window or steal your wallett. If you park in your garage, and walk with your dog or a friend you will be fine. Same can be said about corktown.

Brush Park: If I had the money I'd move there. So close to downtown, so much barren land, it is not a good place for "Crimes of opertunity". I think It would be safe.

Hubbard Farms: Nice homes, Good community, Safe walk to bars/restaurants of Mexicantown. Only drawback is that you get crazies from the yorba walking up and down your street littering. Also when I lived there high school kids would take pacakges that I got delived off my porch. But I never felt like I would get assaulted or broken into. Most people who live there have a dog and a gun so criminals don't view it as a community of victims.

East English Village: it's fine, IMO kind of booring and far, and houses are not too impressive, but there are a lot of cops living there and it's close to the Grosse Points, so i'd assume it would be safe. But there is not too much to walk to there.

Indian Village: Beautifully homes, beautifull neighbors, safe durring the day, I've heard a lot of stories of stolen cars and people getting held up in their driveways. Same idea people come there to prey on the wealthy liberals. But if you are rich enough to afford your city taxes, insurance, utilities, and upkeep on one of those monster homes. Losing your car or wallet every 10 or 15 years should not be that big of a deal. Same can be said of west village to a lesser extent.

Downtown: I'm not much for condos [[I've got 4 dogs) but if you want a condo I think downtown is completly safe.

Midtown: The bums make it look scary, but everyone who lives there is either a college student/hipster or both. Plus there are lots of bars, restaurants. It's basically where I hang hout and I always feel safe. You just need to realize that bums can't afford guns, are too old/disabled to hurt you, and for that matter are usually to lazy to bother even trying. They just look scary cause they are crazy, but they are harmless.

North Corktown: I live in an apartment here while I'm rehabing a house here. Because of all the empty lots, and the hand full of dilapitated homes, it is not nearly as impressive looking durring a neighborhood drive through as any of the previously mentioned neighborhoods. However, the new housing stock is filled with good, mostly young, hard working people who all want the urban experience. The old housing stock is a mix of house rehabilitors such as myself, and old hillbillies that have been here forever. This neighborhood is well lit, we have neighborhood patroll, taxes are cheap, there is develpoment, and and the whole neighborhood seems to go to sleep early. At night all you can here is crickets cherping. More importantly this neighborhood is stable. There are no forclosures in the whole neighborhood. For that matter there is only one home for sale at all in this neighborhood. So if you can talk one of the speculators who are holding onto some of the uninhabited homes into selling you will be buying into a great neighborhood. Enough of my push for people to move into my new neighborhood. I feel completely safe here. I've had no problems here and I'm about a 5 minute walk to woodbridge, corktown, and motor city casino. And about a 15 minute walk to downtown or midtown. I think my neighborhood is great, I've lived and worked all over the city and this is where I settled. So take that for what it's worth.

All of this being said there are very few areas I actually feel unsafe walking, Davison & Linwood, 6 Mile & Gratiot, Near City Airport, are a few examples, and believe me if you are in one of these neighborhoods you will know it and leave quickly. I just dress neutral and act natural, and in 28 years of living in Detroit I've always been compleetly fine.

I'm sick of typing, hopefully this was helpfull

Message me if you have specific questions

Even parts of paradise aren't safe at night. I have friends that just returned from the Hawaiian Islands, and they were warned by their tour guide and hotel concierge not go out alone at night. I don't recall which island this was on...they visited 3, I believe.

I think I see sort of a method to Ocean2026's madness, here.First, he wants to give abandoned houses to illegal aliens. Probably some nice old Detroit architecture there. It's safe to walk around there, because illegals aren't going to do anything to get the police involved in anything.. This thread could turn out to be a pretty good roadmap for muggers. Watch it, folks. I know from the other threads I see O2026 posting on that he has a real hard time dealing with cold hard facts when they don't support his positions. Stirs up the pot pretty good. I used to live in Detroit many years ago. I'm in California, now, so I can't offer any first hand experiences that would be relavent here. I think this Ocean guy lives in Texas..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Novine

"Detroit is dangerous. So why deny it?"

Because it's not true.

---

Forbes disagrees with your statement:

"Unfortunately for the Motor City, Kilpatrick, 38, is just one ripple in the area's sea of crime. Detroit is the worst offender on our list of America's most dangerous cities, thanks to a staggering rate of 1,220 violent crimes committed per 100,000 people."

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/23/mos...an-cities.html

That is a hell of a rate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Roq

Forbes disagrees with your statement:

"Unfortunately for the Motor City, Kilpatrick, 38, is just one ripple in the area's sea of crime. Detroit is the worst offender on our list of America's most dangerous cities, thanks to a staggering rate of 1,220 violent crimes committed per 100,000 people."

http://www.forbes.com/2009/04/23/mos...an-cities.html

That is a hell of a rate.

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Rule number 1 - never tell the truth if people don't want to acknowledge it.

I live in Lafayette Park, which I consider a nice area and I love it, but I don't consider it as safe as the neighborhood I previously lived in, in Port Huron. Two very different animals.

Crime can happen anywhere. It's more likely to happen in some places than others. Overall, Detroit as a whole is more dangerous than most American cities, but it has areas that are safer than others. There's nothing parochial in that statement. It's fact. Crime happens here. One simply has to be smart about it.

Another thing to consider is the geography of Detroit and its neighborhoods -- the layout and distribution of people means you can't perfectly compare this city and its neighborhoods to others that are set up in other ways.

Is all of Detroit some lawless post-apocalyptic dystopia? No. Is it a Pleasant Valley Sunday? No. Just because someone walked a couple times from one place to another and didn't get mugged doesn't make it safe. Just because someone got their bike stolen doesn't make it Gaza City. Detroit is what it is, and you're a fool not to be cautious. Even around the stadiums on game days there is crime. Hence, the legions of cops.

If you think it's so safe, leave you car unlocked all the time and don't use a Club.

If you think it's so dangerous, stay away.

Of, be smart and be aware of your surroundings.

The issue of Detroit being a safe city is off the table --It’s not safe – if you want actual statistics read the blurb and follow the link below. That doesn’t mean we write off the whole city, but that we have to address the underlying issues that made it that way [[but that’s another thread). The “safe� areas of Detroit are different from other cities in that they are small islands of perceived safety in a large sea of unsavory areas. There is no continuous safe zone that stretches for any distance in Detroit, and let’s face it; Detroit isn’t that large of a city anymore. There is a lot of good left but there is a lot of bad that needs to be extinguished in order to reform the city and make it feel safe for everyone, not just the “street smart�.

America's Most Dangerous Cities
By Zack O'Malley Greenburg
Friday, April 24, 2009provided by Forbes.com
Top 5 Most Dangerous Cities:
No. 1 Detroit, Mich.
[[Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn, Mich., metropolitan statistical area)
Population: 1,951,186
Violent Crimes per 100,000: 1,220


http://finance.yahoo.com/real-estate/article/106978/America%27s-Most-Dangerous-Cities

This thread is a Rorschach Test. I have a friend whose professor stepfather won't lock their door because he refuses to "give in to the paranoia" but because we're from Detroit & have a few cops in the family tree we practice the "Sacramento Vampire Rule" whereas Richard Trenton Chase, a serial killer you may Google by either name & was the source of a pretty scary movie by the guy who did the Exorcist called "Rampage", operated under the proviso if you left your door unlocked he took as tacit approval from his victims he could come in & butcher you, drink your blood, feast on your body parts, take a knife to any sex or waste organs & stuff animal poop in your mouth. I would rather live my life without confusing any Sacramento Vampires, personally...I've been enough muggings, shoot outs & race riots