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One possible solution to people using the transit center as a mass public restroom, and its consequent filth, is to charge a fee - say 25 or 50 cents - to use a restroom stall, a common practice in Europe.
http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...uate/77502118/
Are cats still getting bathed in the sinks?
I agree that a nominal fee, normal in the rest of the world, would solve most bathroom issues.
^^^ OH the horrors...:[[... I heard cats don't like water!
Heaven forbid anyone that has to go into one of those 'eh, bathrooms!
Isn't THAT what transit centers are for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
From the article:Quote:
Originally Posted by 467riverfix
Heck, if the number of free restroom facilities is limited even more, maybe DetroitYES! will enjoy another cesspool thread. ;)Quote:
Because of a limited number of free restroom facilities in the downtown area, the transit center plays host to more people than it was designed to accommodate, he said.
I have a friend who lives in France. He's from around here, he went to Mumford. He said in France people just go the bathroom in alleys or anywhere there's a little privacy. He said that's acceptable over there.Quote:
Originally Posted by 467riverfix
Cleaning the restrooms 3-4 times daily is insufficient for a public facility that sees this many visitors and that attracts a sizable homeless population. I've never been in the transit center, but if they don't already have them, full time attendants /custodians during peak usage times would be the obvious solution. Also, lines at the men's room are almost certainly due to a shortage of urinals. That's an easy and inexpensive addition to just about any public restroom facility.
I utilize the transit center; I’ve seen the recent stories on television. I have never seen a line to use the restrooms – not in the year I’ve been back in Detroit. There are issues with the electronic boards, they generally work as far as displaying which bus stops at which bay, departure time portion of the board seems to have more off days than on days, this is a moot issue as the buses hardly follow the times displayed on the boards. The transit center can be something of a bazaar – cigarettes, chips, pop, candy, H20, weed, bus tickets, bus passes, cell phones are sold en masse.
Typically, the transit police are hermetically attached to their chairs; the chairs, as well as the guards, can be found in the security office. There are cameras everywhere, I have never seen an issue inside or outside the transit center. Not sure about the ticket machine being out of order, tickets can be purchased at the walk up window during business hours, I buy my passes at my local CVS. The transit center is not a warming shelter, there is a time limit as far waiting for a bus goes – 45 minutes I think, a person would have to far exceed that time limit prior to one of the guards getting up out of their chair and asking someone to move along. I never knew, or was even aware of the fact that there were heating elements – who knew.
Worry about late buses, drivers leaving the yards late.
And DDOT, to increase revenue try repairing the fare boxes, there are some days I don’t pay all day, as every bus I gotten on, the fare box is not in service.
everything needs to be fixed there. Total renovation is in order.
Again? Maybe you'd like to underwrite the project?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypestyles
Another solution is to at least double the bus fare price. In Windsor, it's a single fare of $2.75 getting raised to $3 in July. I looked it up for New York City, it also says $2.75.Quote:
Originally Posted by SDCC
I googled the fare price in Detroit. It's only $1.50 adults, $0.75 students, $0.50 seniors. Fares should be raised to at least $2.75 to cover those costs. More fares = more money to deal with your issues. Rents and real estate prices have skyrocketed in downtown. Raise the bus fares too.
It would be terrible public policy to force riders, who are among the poorest, most desperate, most vulnerable Metro Detroiters, to absorb 100% increases in transit costs. They shouldn't have to pay a huge regressive tax for management's stunning incompetence.Quote:
Originally Posted by davewindsor
And Detroit's fares aren't too low; Windsor's fares are too high. Detroit's fares are in line with most cities. In NYC the average cost of a fare is something around $1.80. The $2.75 fare you're quoting is for a single one-way ticket which almost no one uses, because every other ticket option is much cheaper. There are daily, weekly, monthly, reduced-price for certain groups, and various bulk ticket options.
Why would we expect people who use something to have to pay for it? That's far too logical. It's more fun to expect another entity, or group of people, to pay for it once we choose to not maintain it and let it fall into disarray. Our middle name is Entitled. We are Detroit proud.
It's hardly "entitlement" to not ask the poorest Detroiters to pay the full cost of transit fares. There's no place in the Western world where transit fares are fully covered by the farebox.Quote:
Originally Posted by belleislerunner
That's why we have an graduated federal income tax system. I guess we could do away with taxation and go 100% user fees, forcing the poor to pay $10 for a bus ride, but I'm not sure why that would make any sense.
Still another solution would be to restore it to it's intended purpose as a Transit Center, and not a mismanaged hang out for for the homeless. Now before we get all up in arms @ Honky Tonk for being a white privileged racist, hear me out. Gilbert and Ilitch effectively did away with all of the low income housing in the Cass Corridor. People write about the deplorable conditions @ shelters. Doesn't anyone think maybe it's time to address some real issues, like homelessness, in Detroit, and not shelter them @ the City's Transit Center? From Wikipedia:Quote:
Originally Posted by davewindsor
"It began construction in 2007 and was opened for service in July 2009 at a total cost of $22.5 million."
7 years old, $22.5 mil, and it's already falling apart? Now what? Scrap it, put the taxpayers on the hook for another one, and start the downfall process all over again?
Damn, I actually agree wholeheartedly with Bham. Maybe I better check myself...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
OK, I'm listening. So what exactly is your solution? How do you get there? Turn the fail jail into a large homeless shelter and ship downtown's homeless there? Who's going to pay for it? A large bond issue funded by the difference in doubling the bus fares?Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Government corruption and wasteful overspending has been a problem in Detroit for a long time. What's your solution, aside from stating the obvious? Privatization? Contracting bus services out to a private company like toll collection and maintenance of the US side of the tunnel?Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Change the name to the Kwame Kilpatrick Transit Center then all the disfunction would make sense
Bus fare in New York also includes free transfers, including into its expansive subway system. Service is 24-hours, relatively very frequent, and reliable. Mass transit is the preferred option for most people in NYC, regardless of income. Clearly that is not the case in Detroit. Besides everything is more expensive in New York. People make a lot more money there too. The median household income is about $26,000 in Detroit compared to $51,000 in New York.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroi...and_employment
http://project.wnyc.org/median-income-nabes/
I'm totally with you on this: Bus fare in Detroit should not cost as much as in New York.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davewindsor
Maybe just getting the employees to do their damn jobs and police the Center like they're supposed to, would be a great start. As far as turning the Fail Jail into a Homeless Shelter, that would be a start too. Here, read this. It's a different way to approach the issue other then throwing them out in the street because Hipsters want to stare @ Herringbone floors, or letting them reside in a public transit center.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...aved-millions/
Wow, and I agree with Honky too [[in fact, he posted a link to the very same subject I was about to post about). Will wonders never cease?Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
This is true to some degree in Paris [[ I saw a guy taking a shit inside the metro there once and it's pretty common to encounter the smell of piss or shit there) but not in any other city or town I've visited in France.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
This guy said they consider it a human right to go to the bathroom in France and they do it just about anywhere. I've never been there, but that's what he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by drjeff
I guess that's what makes Paris such a huge tourist destination, the public defication.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
We live near Nuremberg Germany. Here the going rate for a public restroom is 50 cents. However in both the urban centers of Nuremberg and Munich there are free facilities for homeless. Included with the restroom facilities is a free shower once a week.
I do not know who funds this but I will say that both city centers are extremely clean and smell fine. I have walked through several ally ways and actually noticed the lack of urine smell [[the exception being during Oktoberfest.)
On the opposite side of the spectrum we visited Paris last weekend and as beautiful as it was the smell of urine was everywhwre! We stayed right on the Avenue De Champs Elysees and even there we were not immune to the smells.
The restrooms probably just need to be cleaned more. Generally transit station bathrooms are cleaned every hour.
When this thing was going up, I predicted that the station wouldn't offer proper shielding from the snow, wind, and rain, and that it was improper to design a station with the canopy roof like that.
Oh, how I was criticized:
It's not that you're being unfair. It's that you hate anything that you are unfamiliar with. You're not open to new things. There are always the people who resist change, even if it is for the better. You bitch and moan about everything to the point that you come across as a miserable human being.
How about instead of whining and bitching about every possible little thing that could go wrong with this thing, you give it a chance. Let them finish the work. Let people start using it. Hell, go ahead and use it yourself. Within time, it will become familiar to you, and you'll wonder why you even cried over it in the first place.
So, um, who's crying about the quality of it now? The station's longtime USERS? And things are so bad they're considering downgrading what the station is named for? Pouring millions more into "fixing" this thing?
OK. I'll just note Detroitnerd: 1; RPTC Boosters: 0.
As you were.
Does anyone know when Detroit last had a fare increase? I think these are about the same fares as when I was last on a DDOT bus almost 20 years ago. Granted, the service has only deteriorated since then...Quote:
Originally Posted by davewindsor
The last DDOT fare increase was from $1.25 in January 2003. By contrast, the last SMART fare increase was from $1.50 [[used since 1993) to $2.00 in 2010.Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
So much for the ten cent "student fare" I paid in the 1951-1953 time frame with good, clean, reliable DSR buses.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtburb
There are more people that live in poverty or near-poverty in New York than in Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by bust
The problem with Detroit's transit system isn't its expense; it's that it is virtually useless. The only people who use it are those who have no alternative because of financial reasons and high school kids. Those who have the bus system as their only option have severely limited opportunities because of it. At least if you're living in poverty or near-poverty in New York having physical access to the job market is not one of your problems. Maybe the answer to this problem in Detroit is subsidize cars for the poor.
:confused: enough said?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Maybe in absolute numbers, only because NYC has 8 million people versus Detroit 600,000+ people.Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
But the fact is poor people in NYC are a much smaller percentage of the total population versus the poor people in Detroit.
This. There is absolutely no reason to take transit in Detroit. The people taking transit are overwhelmingly the most desperate, isolated folks who don't have financial or social resources to drive/get driven.Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
That said, they are fully deserving of dignity and a functional system, and the utter lack of concern regarding D-DOT is pretty contemptible. This goes for both city and suburban "leadership" who don't care about transit unless it's on rails and a rich dude is paying for it.
I don't disagree with all of it but I think in the past 5 years DDOT and SMART have tried very hard to make do with the resources they have. I took the 460 Woodward back from downtown into Royal Oak and was impressed. It had been about 5 years or so since I last took a bus from Royal Oak up to OU a couple times and back, which was quite the experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
For one the bus was on time, it was a new bus, it had a marquee on the inside to alert of the next street. This wasn't the case 5-6-7 years ago. SMART has also done a great job, though there's a lot more, replacing stop signage and schedules at each stop and erecting stop shelters.
I wouldn't have objected to those billionaires you alluded to giving their money to DDOT or SMART, but that's not what happened.
Yes, New York has 20% below the poverty line [[it's 40% in Detroit). That's still a very large percentage of the population that is very sensitive to small changes in cost of living.Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
But what if they made the cars longer, so they could hold more people? Then they could have the longer cars go up and down major routes and pick people up and drop them off.Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
So I have noticed some positive changes at the transit center. I’ll dive in with the transit police, they are now doing their jobs – finally. Transit police are actually walking around the transit center; I’m referring to outside the actual center. Transit police are making rounds around the transit center – and hold the phone – they are walking completely around the block. Additionally, the cubicle that they occupied is now an information center – and another shocker the lights are actually on. When transit police occupied the space the lights were never on, didn’t want anybody to bother their naps. Transit police are now located in a cubicle closer to the waiting area, the lights are on, and the cubicle faces the outside area, which is another benefit. I also noticed that some of the entrepreneurs that used Rosa Parks as their business address are gone.
The center itself smelled like cleaning solution, which is positive. There is now a charging station for cell phones, there are two flat screen monitors, which I believe will [[future tense) broadcast buses arriving and departing. I didn’t visit the restroom but the facility was not busy at all as it was mid-morning. I never noticed the center being dirty but cleanliness appears to be on the uptick as well.