On average, millennials in Michigan are doing even worse than their counterparts in Mississippi.
http://www.attn.com/stories/4570/mil...ome-in-america
Just the above realization alone is going to be a pretty hard sell if you're begging the young and educated to "forget Chicago."
I don't get what that chart means. I mean it doesn't say anything about education levels or ages. It just says median income. So that includes a 19 year working at Taco Bell? I don't understand how you get anything about the young and educated.
Also, one needs to understand that the cost of living is much lower here than many other areas of the country, so a dollar goes farther here than it does in Chicago or the west coast.
Further, with what types of degrees are these millennials graduating? A degree in anthropology, urban studies, art, music, philosophy or communications, among others, is not going to land a high earning career.
When I was 19, I only worked in the summer and made no where near 19k but my goal was to finish college and just to make spending money. That's why this map means nothing.
As was said, the report needs to give us the parameters to have any merit. Not much you can decipher from that crap.
Looks like our broke ass Millenials will need to rely on their repurposing skills and lay off the overpriced craft beers and new farm to table restaurants.
I see the "everything's fine, we have no problems here" brigade is out in force. Sure, houses and apartments are less expensive here than in some other places, but what about food? Clothes? Cars? Utilities? Got any evidence that a higher percentage of kids here than in other places are in college and only working summers to earn spending money? Got any evidence that a higher percentage of college grads here have degrees in "impractical" majors than in other places?
Face facts folks, we've had close to five years of the low-tax, low-service, "business-friendly" experiment, and it's failed. Michigan is on its way to the bottom of the barrel.
Cost of living isn't exactly cheap downtown or in Royal Oak or in most of the places these kids want to live. If you want to live around Mack and St. Jean or Schoolcraft and Plymouth you can live pretty I expensively but I don't see too many millennial moving to areas like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SyGolden48236
But then, they will have another set of issues to deal with, living in those areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
Just like all the broke ass Baby Boomers who have $10,000 in their retirement accounts because they leveraged their houses to buy a cottage, 2 boats, a Vette & Escalade need to do the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTime
For those of you that don't believe thr article, I have two questions.
1. Why do you think Michigan isn't one of the poorest states for millennial?
2. What do you think makes Michigan so great for Millenials?
The cost of living argument doesn't make sense, at least not to me.
We are all being paid in dollars here in the U.S. There are no currency adjustments. Everything costs about the same nationwide, except for housing, and pricier housing means higher returns.
A box of cereal or an oil change or a t-shirt costs the same in California and New York as in Michigan. The only difference is real estate, which, again, has much higher year-over-year returns, so while more expensive, it's a better investment. It's like comparing Apple stock to Yahoo stock or the Swiss Franc to the Colombian Peso and concluding that Yahoo and the Peso are better investments just because they're cheaper.
And in Metro Detroit, good neighborhoods with top school districts, and solid real estate appreciation, aren't cheap. Good luck getting a decent-sized home for anything less than 500k in Birmingham. Good luck finding new[[er) construction in Novi or Rochester Hills for less than 500k.
While I agree for the most part with you Bham, I don't know how you can tell me a hamburger in NYC is the same price in Detroit is the same in LA is the same in Souix Falls. I think there are differences in services and goods, but an $8 versus $18 burger in a city isn't the difference between make or break for a Millennial. You hit on it being housing and real estate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
There is definitely a big difference in costs between states. According to this site, there is at least %25 difference between what a $100 would buy in Michigan compared to California.
What does $100 buy in your state.
http://consumerist.com/2014/08/19/ho...hat-shows-you/
I would say, generally speaking, yeah, a hamburger costs the same in all those places.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg19
There are some highly localized tourist-oriented markets, like Times Square, or Beverly Hills, where you might pay a dollar or two more for a burger, because of insane real estate costs and a captive market, but your typical burger in your typical neighborhood in the NYC or LA regions will cost the same as in Metro Detroit.
There might be some slight differences. Produce is probably cheaper in CA. Gas is a little cheaper in MI. Sales taxes vary slightly. But, generally speaking, I think housing is the only major difference in relative costs.
What, outside of housing, is significantly more expensive in CA? Nothing major.Quote:
Originally Posted by ndavies
Those COL websites are silly because they only take housing costs into account, and not housing returns. It's like saying a person feeding their 401k is poorer than someone who doesn't.
Not true. A friend moved from Detroit to Chicago and he constantly complains about the higher cost of living, [[things). Think about it, if you own a hamburger place, and your housing is X amount of dollars, Your burgers are going to have to cost more to absorb your cost of living. [[rent, storefront, waiters, cooks, etc., their housing)Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
The cost of living varies greatly across the country. Yes, housing costs greatly affect this. Housing costs are the biggest part of most people's monthly expenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Here's a few more websites that back the data.
How about one from CNN Money:
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/
Try Detroit Vs San Francisco or new York.
Governing.com
http://www.governing.com/gov-data/me...2014-data.html
And here's a US government list of websites recommended for comparing states costs
http://www.state.gov/m/fsi/tc/79700.htm
If there wasn't a difference there wouldn't be all these sites comparing the differences.
Try gas prices, for one thing. And "housing returns" don't really help renters. And yes, even the burgers are more costly hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Bham, let me make sure I understand your argument. It sounds like:
"I don't believe that things cost different amounts in different places, despite widespread evidence to the contrary."
Prices vary by market. So do salaries. Its a thing.
1953
My nephew got married 7 weeks ago. He's very early 30's in sales, she's a 2nd year attorney. They both make a very good income, close to 100k a year each or maybe a little more. They live in a flat on some street in Royal Oak not real close to downtown but they can walk it. After all is said and done their living expenses are north of $2000.00 a month. Royal Oak isn't exactly cheap these days, neither is downtown or midtown Detroit.
Free community college would be a good start. Young people and able-bodied adults need better career options. The traditional high-school-diplomas-only factory era is long over.
Millennial wouldn't be so poor if they didn't spend so much money like crazy. You see so many young people bragging about visiting 25 countries, traveling all over Europe etc.. Seriously, when did someone making 35k a year become world travelers. There are plenty of jobs out there but this whole instagram world of going to events every week, luxury vacations etc... has a price and many will be in a world of hurt when they hit 50. I can say this because I'm a millennial and I see what goes on.
There are material differences in cost of groceries in expensive places like New York than cheaper places like Metro Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-l...york-manhattan
https://www.nerdwallet.com/cost-of-l...y-life/detroit
I fall into the camp that this map doesn't really mean anything. I don't think this is a measure for where robust economies or high paying jobs are located. It also probably doesn't say much about the future of what the future will look like in terms of better paying jobs.
Connecticut, the state with the highest overall median income in the country, is barely above Michigan and is the same as Alabama, which is one of the lowest income states in the country. There also isn't really that much variance among the states, since the vast majority of states [[rich and poor ones) fall within a band of $2000-$3000. Also, Alaska has by far the highest median income for millennials, which could mean that Alaska pays young people more money to do the same jobs they do everywhere else, or it could mean that that state's population of young people skews older and Alaskan millennials tends to be further into their higher earning years.
^^^You got it, especially with the bolded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don K
Texas, Iowa, Oklahoma, Louisiana and Nebraska all have a cost of living lower than Michigan, and yet millennials in those locales [[all things considered) are still much better off in terms of income than they are in Michigan.
It takes more than a Bachelors Degree as well, which is now equivalent to a HS diploma in the eyes of a lot of companies. Need a Masters Degree to make hay now a days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypestyles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid
Not necessarily true.
Depends on the Master Degree.
Got two and a half [[grad cert.) me self and haven't really broken the bank -- most likely will never do so staying around here.
There ain't shit around here job-wise regarding what my Master degrees are in.
Almost every other State in the Union, including O-fucking-Hio has more jobs for me than here.
And I'm not the only one; there's a ton of us out here in the area -- and not just in my field.
Completely my fault for the route I took; it's just me -- I couldn't bring myself to become a Capitalist Whore or else I would have gotten a Business degree like half a million other people do/did.
But if you're not a capitalist whore then you're un-American and everything is your own fault and pull up your own bootstraps because of the liberal arts path you chose because you didn't conform to the model of a capitalist nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baselinepunk
Ha yeah the BBs made some dumb life choices too. Let me know when you find out a way to repurpose a Jet Ski into a friggin park bench.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeg19
college is more expensive here than many places and many jobs want you to have experience but won't help you get that experience.Michigan has lots of crabs in a barrel
Today on WWJ I heard that when the Fed raised their interest rate ¼% today, it took Wells Fargo just 12 minutes to raise their rates accordingly for their borrowers but they're going to raise the rates they pay to their depositors "sometime in the future."Quote:
Originally Posted by Baselinepunk
Wells Fargo: role model for Capitalist Whores.
I gotta be honest, I think I could do that! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by TTime
You are correct. In most cases, it depends what the Masters is in. But my friend's son just moved to Atlanta, because in his curriculum, he just couldn't find a job here. Many are probably going to have to leave the state, to find better opportunities. The Gov says Michigan is on the come-up, but I fail to see it, unless they are low paying or specialized jobs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baselinepunk
Let me guess, it's in Speech and Communications?Quote:
Originally Posted by Baselinepunk
Well think of it this way. The higher cost of living results in a better return of services and neighborhood amenities. At the same time, some things are lower. Chicago has no income tax. Many Michigan cities do. Illinois income tax is slightly lower than Michigan's but the sales tax is higher. Chicago property taxes are slightly above average. Rents are average in comparison to Michigan cities unless you live by the lake or downtown. In the end things even out a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by SyGolden48236
Finally...income. My job field and related positions pay double and in some cases even more than that then back in Michigan. With my rent costing $2000 more annually than a comparable condo in Michigan...plus great mass transit access and a vibrant and safe neighborhood full of shopping and restaurants, it makes little sense to go elsewhere unless I had a family and therefore different needs
Great points wolverine.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolverine
Yes, there's usually a relationship between higher costs of living and a better return of services and amenities. But not always. An important consideration: those services and amenities specifically important to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolverine
And don't make your decisions on taxes or you may end up in South Carolina, or Nicaragua. Few but for fogeys would make that choice. Let's be optimistic!
For most, career prospects are key to the decision.
Not sure if we agree or disagree, but I guess the former. :)
I laugh at this because if you are in engineering or medical in Michigan, you are doing quite well. Yes, your bachelor in arts degree is probably worthless in Michigan.
HahA yes and amenities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
But I declined engineering at Michigan for somewhere else.
I get my snow plowed, garbage picked up, the city even plows my sidewalks if I get over 4 inches of snow. They suck up the leaves in the fall when I put them on my street. Police are at my house within 2 minutes. Quite a dining scene within a 1 mile radius from my house. Airport is 30 mins away. Oh yeah, I don't have a bus to take me to the "Farm to Table" gastropub. Yes, worthless shit amenities.Quote:
Originally Posted by bust
Congratulations. I remember and appreciate garbage collection. [[Still have it. Those other things too.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
I realize I wasn't clear but I generally agree with your simple assessment of Michigan's economy. And there are good reasons to choose Michigan even for those outside the handful of fields with good job prospects there. But that it lacks good opportunity in so many areas says a lot about what amenities are uncommon there. And disparaging attitudes about liberal arts and social sciences will not attract them.
I live 8 miles outside the city limit of Detroit and I have all of the above and more. [[except for the leaves, I mulch them)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
sounds like you and Cliffy live in the same neighborhood...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
Income, expenses and taxes are all dynamic. I would think it would be important not only to figure out where they are, but where they will be.
http://image.mlive.com/home/mlive-me...678-mmmain.jpg
http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/in...h_for_mic.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Ah, that's a big ole negative, Red Leader.
"But if you're not a capitalist whore then you're un-American and everything is your own fault and pull up your own bootstraps because of the liberal arts path you chose because you didn't conform to the model of a capitalist nation."
I've had my boot straps pulled up to my ears for over 30 years and still no "American Dream".
Safe place to stay, food on table and transportation [[that we pay threw the nose for) is the only "dream" we've achieved so far.
I've been called a Commie Basterd [[among a bunch of other things) since Bush the Younger went into Iraq to fight his dad's war. Sure, it hurt a bit when it first happened, especally when it comes from friends and family, but fuck it -- what do I care at this point?
I used to have a lot of faith in this area regarding getting ahead in life.
Now, not so much. Everything has changed for the worse in this State -- which breaks my heart to pieces.
If you said that everything has changed for the worse in the US for people without higher education, I would agree. Michigan always gets a bad rap in here by people who chose to get useless degrees. The fact is that people with no degree or useless degrees are struggling in the whole country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baselinepunk
I agree, but your Governor doesn't seem to think so. Took them over a year to come up with a plan to fix our shitty roads, and in the end, the "customers" of this state, as he likes to say, will still get the shaft with higher taxes and fees for vehicle registration.
It looks like it might have been worth your time to have done so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baselinepunk
hey at least they are living their lives and enjoying it at the same time. you sound jealous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy
Yes, everyone is an adult and can make their own decisions. Some people choose to visit 25 countries, some people choose to be workaholics, and some people find something in the middle. At the end, we will see.Quote:
Originally Posted by casscorridor