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The Grosse Pointe Shores mansion built by furniture magnet Art Van Elslander that once had one of the highest price tags in the state ended up selling for the relatively bargain rate of $3.75 million.
Compared to the original $15.9 million asking price, the sale for the sprawling Lake Shore Drive estate was the equivalent of a clearance center bargain — a trademark feature at Art Van Furniture.
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/new...sold/20672827/
The Andersons are a very nice couple and will take proper care of the place.
De Flation Boss, De flation
Attachment 25275
Considering his consulting firm makes $200M a year and they gave a grant to WSU for $25M, buying that place for $3.75M is cheap. He probably paid cash.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oo7plyr
Well, there goes the neighborhood......
Is this a large and/or prime lot? It's a pretty vulgar and tacky home [[with rumors of foundation issues); perhaps the Andersons have plans to demolish and rebuild?
It's a very imposing structure. Lots of everything that is more like a showcase at his stores than a home. It would need considerable renovation because it is dated inside. They moved west to Oakland awhile ago. Not sure who if anyone has been in residence there. Spectacular view of the lake so it has a lot of potential.
That house isn't going anywhere.... if someone wanted a tear down... they could have purchased 50 other properties along that stretch of Lakeshore for a fraction of the cost of this one. It is made of quality materials... and some features, such as floating staircases, just aren't affordable to all but the truly wealthy.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAcc
Some may find this garish... but it's little different than what would go up in Newport or Bel Air or Palm Beach. It's just a bit beyond what we expect here in Michigan.
I am a bit amused by the "tear it down" mentality. ;)
They tore down Rose Terrace soooooo......Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheels
Sooooo the Rose Terrace estate was such a vast [[very deep) piece of property that they replaced it with 25 McMansions [[just checked via Google earth) on 2 streets they put thru the property.
The Van Elslander property [[taking into account the Grosse Pointe Shores likely zoning restrictions) probably couldn't fit more than 2 residences [[if the put them one behind the other... maybe 4 residences). I don't think the numbers would make it viable as a tear down like Rose Terrace was....
The place is just '80s millionare over the top. It's the kind of place you'd find in Houston during the oil boom not in Newport or W Palm Beach.
Do you think they get a lot of fish flies there during the summer ?
But that does beg another question.... who owns that property next to the Grosse Pointe War Memorial. There were 3 or 4 houses torn down to put up some very pricey Condos... but I believe the mortgage meltdown ended that... and the land is still empty. :confused:
No, Only one street was placed through the Rose Terrace Property. That street was named Rose Terrace and the homes on it are hardly McMansions. They are modest, albeit 1970s constructed single family homes. Not much good came out of the 1970s in terms of architecture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
You are mistakenly thinking that the street named Dodge Place was platted on the Rose Terrace estate. Dodge Place was platted ten years after Rose Terrace was subdivided. It was created from the Charles Swift, later Horace Dodge Jr. then James Ranger estate.
The property immediately east of and adjacent to the War Memorial is still owned by the War Memorial. They tore down the dilapidated house that existed on the property. To the east of that is the McMillan's home. Just east of that are two properties owned by David and Sherry Cotton's children, one of which has had a lovely home built on it. The condominium project was scuttled by intense opposition from area residents. The Cottons bought the properties from the would-be condominium developers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
To be fair, the Andersons aren't developers, they're filthy rich. And filthy rich people raze tacky and dated mansions to build modern trophies all the time. Here's a $4.5M home on the western Michigan lakeshore that was razed to build a mega-mansion: http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapi...e_on_mark.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Maybe they keep it, but a tacky 25-year-old mega-mansion on a prime piece of land is an ideal candidate to meet the wrecking ball. Upkeep, taxes, foundation issues, etc.
Here's a 1.1 acres lot [[with a teardown) down the street, asking $1.4M: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/90...88605225_zpid/
Furniture boy's lot is 3.75 acres...
No, I was not referring to Dodge Place, only Rose Terrace St. The street Rose Terrace St. loops around as though it is 2 streets, although all with the same name.... and here we see a Google Earth map showing that there are indeed 25 houses placed within the former Rose Terrace Estate property...Quote:
Originally Posted by SyGolden48236
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ro...950d06fb22f233
Also... when I use the term "McMansion"... I was referring to the general term for large houses built in many areas in the outer fringes of Detroit's suburbia, which we generally use on this forum. That term does have a whole other connotation when speaking strictly within the Grosse Pointe Lakeshore area confines....
Yeah, it depends what the owners want to do with it... but I don't think it is as tacky as you do... Pastiche yes.... but there are a lot of features from older styles utilized in this house, and done so with quality materials and an attention to detail. I view it as less dated than many other modern houses... especially when one looks at modern homes of the rich and famous in California or elsewhere... but that's just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAcc
With this being the largest and most expensive house built in the Grosse Pointes in many decades, I tend to think it will remain... but time will tell. And when you've got the money that these new owners do... even expensive foundation work, if necessary still shouldn't be a problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitBoy
You can find houses just like that being built right now in the Dallas area.
Why the hell does the Detroit News keep going on an on about how this place was so desirable and such a bargain? If it was so great it wouldn't have gone for 1/4 of its asking price.
Because a lot of the staff live in the Pointes and they don't want people to understand how much the neighborhood has declined.Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
Seems like a prime spot. And if they rebuild, I'd love to see what they build on the spot.
Because the News and Freep [[whether knowingly or they're just idiots) has no idea of anything related to market values and locational preferences in the region. Everyone knows if the same home were in Northville it would have 2x the value and if in Bloomfield/Bham/Franklin it would have 3x the value.Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
If you blindly red the News and Freep you would think all the rich people still live in the Pointes, Hamtramck is still Polish, 7 Mile is still Chaldean, the Jews live in Southfield, downtown/midtown are boomtowns, gentification is a major threat in Detroit, sprawl is some new phenomenon, and other assorted nonsense.
I assume they aren't that stupid, they just have an agenda that blends nostalgia for past times with wildly exaggerated claims about present trends..
Gee.... I guess that the 2 late billionaires [[both of whom died in 2014) William Clay Ford Sr. and Ralph Wilson who were neighbors a couple of houses down on either side of the Van Elslander estate... must not have gotten DetroitBoy and Bham1982's memo that this area was Ghettoville. Funny that..... ;)
I'm sure you're well aware that there's a middle ground between Grosse Pointe "not having all the rich people" [[as I stated) and "ghettoville" [[as you stated).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Obviously the Pointes are affluent, but they haven't been the region's wealth center in 40-50 years, but you would never know it if you read the local rag papers. If they have even 10% of the region's high-end wealth I would be extremely surprised.
Lakeshore has declined? Lmfao.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitBoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gpwrangler
Well you tell us why a house for sale for $15M went for $3M? That means the property value has declined which means the market says the area is less desirable. Or perhaps you think the house went for cheap because the view isn't good?
The Elslanders built the largest house in the Pointes in the last 50 years... and there are very few left that could equal it in size. So with most of the neighboring houses only a fraction of the size... no one should be surprised that the price was reduced.
No one is arguing that the Grosse Pointes of today aren't what they were 50 years ago, wealth wise. But I learned long ago that many of the still wealthy folks don't like 15,000 square ft. houses. I know of 2 millionaire's who lived on Tonnacour Pl. in the Farms... their houses are only 3000-4000 square ft. in size. One lady was the descendant of the founder of Champion Spark Plug, the other was a developer of apartment complexes in Michigan, Florida and Arizona [[was 1/2 owner of Muirwoods in Farmington Hills, and previous owner of Buhl Building). Been to both their houses... nothing special.
They, like many of the folks living in that neck of the woods don't require fancy homes or cars... they just like to live comfortably without acting like the Kardashians. Just because they don't show it, doesn't mean that there's not still a lot of monied people living in the Pointes....
Lakeshore Drive hasn't really declined [[maybe somewhat on a relative basis to other areas, but not on an absolute basis), and the property was just absurdly overpriced.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitBoy
I'm surprised they got over $3 million, I would be very happy at the sales price if I were selling that property.
$15 million, in Michigan of all places, is insanely expensive. You can get really enormous, nice-looking real estate in super-prime Manhattan or London or Beverly Hills at that price. And it won't look like interior decoration from hell.
So what are you saying? Grosse Pointe isn't on a par with Manhattan or London or Beverly Hills?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
You're insulting the aristocracy of the Pointes!
$3 million is not cheap. The new owners probably like it just fine, just like the rest of us you say "left years ago". You're not getting anywhere trashing someplace you [[your parents?) moved away from years ago. You obviously know nothing about this place.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitBoy
With all due respect, if you're going to name drop, I recommend dropping better names than two dead 80 year olds, who lived in Gilded Age fortresses on the water. Hardly a representation of the overall health or wealth of the Pointes. Further, interesting that Clay Jr. chooses to call Ann Arbor home. In my eye, it appears most of the real wealth is living in recluse in their Gilded Age mansions while they die. The kids and grandkids have fled for Bloomfield Hills or more than likely out of state.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
I find the Pointes charming, but the Detroit creep truly terrifies me. That said, there are tony Chicago neighborhoods [[Hyde Park, for example) that buddy up to Chicago slums, so I actually think Grosse Pointe could hold on. But the biggest issue is the Chicago PD are legit and will crack heads, and Detroit PD are completely worthless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAcc
That's right, baby. They sure did. BTW there are 45 homes listed for $2.5M or more in just Bloomfield Hills and W Bloomfield alone not counting everything to the west. Some people need to get a map and visit the place where real affluent people live today in the area. And it isn't ghetto or ghetto adjacent either.
Sorry to call you out, but perusing zillow shows this is a gross exaggeration. I found less than five tacky Oakland County monsters from the past couple of years that closed north of $3M. I'm not so sure this house sells for any more than $4M if it was on Orchard Lake or next to Bob Seger on Upper Straits.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
And these were all 15,000 square feet homes on waterfront? Source, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by MAcc
GP, compared to prime parts of Oakland County, is much cheaper. It isn't close.
And Orchard Lake/Upper Straits are hardly the most expensive parts of the county. On a per square foot basis, they aren't close to the top.
Somewhere like Quarton Lake area, or Bloomfield Village, you pay $1 million for a typical 60's colonial, you pay $2 million for a larger, upgraded mini-mansion, and you pay $3 million+ for anything really nice. Those values, on a per square foot basis, are probably close to 3 times what you pay in the Pointes.
Bham82, your numbers are dated. Typical 1960s colonials in Bloomfield Village are more in the $500k-$600k range. BV average is in the $800k range. The "good stuff" is in the $1.5m to $3m range. It's still one of the best areas in Metro Detroit.
These numbers weren't even accurate at the depths of the recession.Quote:
Originally Posted by Towne Cluber
Dated 3,000 square foot 1960's colonials are $1 million in BV. You cannot get at 800-900k, to say nothing of 500k. A relative of mine recently purchased in BV, and it was a dated colonial, sale price around $1 million [[I will PM you the address if you prefer).
The big homes, closer to Quarton Rd, go $2 million and up. Note that there are no huge homes in BV, obviously nothing will be apples-to-apples comparison to the Art Van house; home sizes don't go beyond 5-6 thousand ft. or so.
And prices are slightly higher across the Birmingham line, moving closer to Quarton Lake. I would wager Quarton Lake [[which is just a nothing pond) has the highest per square foot prices in the state.
Bham82, I know of two people who just sold in BV, one for right at $500k and one slightly above that mark. I know of a third person that just bought there for well under $1m, not to mention several others that bought during the recession for well under $1m. I just checked some real estate sites that confirmed my numbers. At the depths of the recessions those numbers were lower. This isn't the 1990s anymore.
Perhaps the market for grotesque oversized houses is stronger in Oakland County.
Seriously, that house was built to one person's rather eccentric tastes. There was never any reason to think it would sell for anything like what it cost. I have the same problem with my own country house [[on a much smaller scale, thank goodness)--my wife and I renovated it at excessive expense to our own taste, which is much better than Van Elslander's, but we knew we could never get the money back out of it, because it is quite small, and any normal person spending that much money on a house wants a bigger house. The next owner will probably tear it down, unless maybe they keep it as a guest house or we give it to our daughter. We didn't care; we could afford it. So could Van Elslander.
I will PM you the sale. This is a dated house, typical colonial, nothing special, $ 1 million.Quote:
Originally Posted by Towne Cluber
Even the less desirable Bham neighborhoods have nothing family-sized at 500k. Poppleton Park is much cheaper and there's nothing available at 3,000 sq. ft. for less than 800k. Neighborhoods west of Woodward cost more than Poppleton.
There's a hell of a lot in the $800k-$2M range, no doubt. But the mega mansions are probably deemed more of a tacky hassle than anything. I mean you think Alon Kaufman can find someone to pay $10M for his monster some day? Unlikely. I recall a Novi mega mansion and a place on Vaughan in BH that sat on the market forever -- I think both sold for $2M to $3M. I think your numbers are 10 years removed from reality. Birmingham is still very healthy though, for sure. Probably the safest bet in Metro Detroit residential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
1. It may be likely that the property was purchased for location only, and may be a tear down an rebuild, only shows the actual divide between reality and money for the super wealthy... think of it, if you make 100K, which is a very good income, and you go out to eat and spend $500, to a guy that makes $1 milliion, thats a $50 meal to him... a guy that makes 10 million can drop a 500 bucks out his pocket and it like the average guy losing a $5..........
2. smart money is leaving GP, other than those that have 2-3 other residences... if you have means for a decent lifestyle GP is not a good bet....... look at the number of 500K plus houses on the market, seems like a bargain until your ULS kid gets shot in the D
My point is apples-to-apples. You're right there won't be many comparables because there aren't many 15,000 square foot homes. But if you do the apples-to-apples comparison there is a significant price difference based on location.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAcc
If you say "what can I get for 500k", "at 1 million", "at 2 million" in Bloomfield Village or Birmingham and compare to what you get at equivalent price in the Pointes you will see an enormous difference in type of home. At a minimum we're talking 2x the price for equivalent.
I don't think, historically, there was always such a gap.
I have a lot of friends that grew up in the Pointes and were not friends with nor would they ever associate or so much as acknowledge the caliber of characters these girls were riding around Detroit with. Untouchables vs. aristocrats. They're proper, ambitious and only associate with private school kids. I think there are two Grosse Pointes. Just as there are two Birminghams. I believe Bloomfield Hills is about the only zip code you can't infiltrate without $300k for a house. The girls smoking weed in Detroit live in crappy $150k homes a few blocks from Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose
I wasn't talking about the general Pointes... everyone knows that large areas of them are middle class, such as the Woods. I'm pointing out that there still are a lot of monied people living there. And yes... William Clay Ford Jr. lives near Ann Arbor... but most of the rest of the Buhl Fords and Brush Fords still live in the Pointes. In fact one of them ripped down Dodie Fords house in the Farms [[the one with the 5 million dollar weather vane)... and built a new house in its' place.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAcc
Also, one would hardly call Ralph Wilson's modern rambling ranch house on Lakeshore a Gilded Age Fortress...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Bham82, I gotta hand it to ya that was one helluva precision verbal airstrike about the local rag pundants you laid out there. Kudos my brutha
Bham and DetroitBoy have laid down some hot takes this week, for sure.
wow, cant believe the squalor of a crappy 150K GP home.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MAcc
anyway, I have a kid a monteith, he's got friends in GPS that have what you might describe as mansions, 5000 sq ft ,inground pools, all the fun shit..... and there are others in modest bungalows of 1200 sq. ft.... all mixiing well.....
anyway, we live in a crappy 150K gpw house..... have to constantly remind the spoiled kids how lucky they are.... its all perspective
I live in a "crappy" house too. I feel fortunate to have it. Have friends all the way to the lakeshore and we all get along just fine. By the way, so do my friends and family in Detroit. Most of the shit and divisiveness seems confined to this forum [[a lot of the after midnight posts are especially sick)Quote:
Originally Posted by Goose
People on here hate to see Detroit trashed but feel perfectly fine throwing rocks at GP. I turn on the news every morning and am thankful for where I live.
MAcc, the home on Vaughan in BH sold for $4m, but was asking $15m. The Novi place was estimated [[supposedly) to cost between $18-25m but was asking $5.5m at last check.
Bham82, I'm not doubting your one story [[especially since you sent a PM), however, it seems that you're basing your stance on a sample size of one along with outdated beliefs. I would also note that the area that you speak of is closer to Indian Mound, which more expensive than the rest of Bloomfield Village. Also, Birmingham's Quarton Lake area isn't the most expensive in the area/state. Try Rathmor Road and Martell Drive in BH.
Elmgate, Trillium, and Pontiac Trail on Upper Straits and Dow Ridge on Cass > any BH street.