Harnessing Regional Wealth: Companies That Could Move to Detroit

In the spirit of other good threads about what we'd like the downtown of 2020 to look like, and what sort of new small businesses are in demand in the city, I wanted to simply list some major employers located outside the City of Detroit who should be targeted for a move to the central city. Some may be more inclined than others. Some may have solid reasons for having a suburban campus, based on what they do. But I feel strongly that many can and should move to the central city, and that such a move-- as with Quicken and Compuware-- grows the pie and changes the growth vectors and perception of the city [[it would be nice to boast of having over 10 Fortune 500s in the city) and the region. It goes without saying that each such move would heat up the city's housing market, increase central city population, spur retail development, and increase transit usage/demand [[including regional transit). Dan Gilbert has allegedly attracted at least a few other businesses, and he reportedly constantly lobbies others in his local rotary club, so to speak, to come on down. Well, here are some more he can go after, and all of us too, using our collective, if small, influence:

Penske Automotive Group- #194 on Fortune500. Bloomfield Hills. The boss seems invested in changing the city…but his corporate HQ is a missing piece in the equation.
TRW Automotive- #165 on Fortune 500. Livonia.
Kelly Services- #468 on Fortune 500. Troy.
Lear- #177 on Fortune500. Southfield.
Masco Corp- #323 on Fortune 500. Taylor.
Visteon- #351 on Fortune 500. Van Buren Twp.
BorgWarner- #352 on Fortune 500. Auburn Hills.
The Detroit Pistons Basketball Club- Auburn Hills [[previously Detroit-based).
Chrysler Group LLC- Auburn Hills [[U.S. HQ)…has opened a small space in Dime Bldg.
Flagstar Bank- Troy.
Meadowbrook Insuance Group- Southfield. Largest business insurer based in MI.

And then there is this company called Ford.

Thoughts? Additions? Seems to me that many of these companies have impediments, such as owning their 'house' and likely not being able to find a buyer, like Chrysler or the Pistons. Others, who lease, should have more flexibility. Any insight as to which of these companies leases, or owns property that could be easily sold, would help.

Well, if your employees bought houses within a convenient [[or slightly less convenient) commute to your location, many of them would be real unhappy to find they would have to schlepp into downtown Detroit every day. Some companies value their employees more than others do and would take their wishes into account.

Taxes have some influence. Detroit is one of only 21 cities in the state with a city income tax. And it has the highest city income. The state might switch to one property tax rate for all properties in the state including those owned by non-profits. Then the city income taxes might be removed. We made some start on revising the state's tax system in Tuesday's election. Let's move toward a fixed property tax rate for all properties in Michigan and remove some of the local taxes including the income tax and Detroit's utility tax.

I wouldn't mind if they all moved into the city-- especially if they were spread out and not just downtown. This is why it's important for a proper land survey to be taken to identify all the far-gone blighted structures, so they can be torn down. Then city planners would have a better handle on what areas could be re-zoned and promoted to investors to possibly create a business campus.

It would help to slow sprawl. All of a sudden that house in Independence Township isn't looking so good now that you work in Downtown Detroit instead of Auburn Hills\Troy\etc...

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Originally Posted by Mackinaw

And then there is this company called Ford.

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Technically, it's called Ford Motor Company.

But in any event, FoMoCo and the Ford family are too heavily invested in Dearborn [[see the Fairlane estate). Keep in mind they [[relatively recently) moved their offices that were downtown into a new-ish building in Dearborn. They're not relocating anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Well, if your employees bought houses within a convenient [[or slightly less convenient) commute to your location, many of them would be real unhappy to find they would have to schlepp into downtown Detroit every day. Some companies value their employees more than others do and would take their wishes into account.

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Good point.

The vast majority of the employees at these companies live in exurban communities where a commute into downtown would be very inconvenient, and given the state of Detroit's neighborhoods and now the decline of many inner ring suburban communities, many of them probably wouldn't want to move closer to work IF their companies moved downtown.

I think the most likely to move downtown is definitely Penkse, then maybe TRW or Borg Warner. I welcome any new corporate entity if it means more jobs in Detroit. The nationwide shift is for companies to be headquartered in a large urban area, so I believe we will see a few of these move downtown in the future. It takes a while to move large companies, so it may not happen for 10-15 years.

I don't see Ford or Chrysler moving downtown any time soon. As much as I would love to see Ford pull a GM and build a new 50-story office building on the Hudson site, I doubt it will happen for a long time. Ford will have a tough time selling their old, dated, monolith of a HQ to anyone, considering it's meant to hold a Ford-sized company [[and what Ford-sized company is willing to move to Dearborn nowadays?). Chrysler's shopping mall-esque HQ is also too big and inconveniently located to attract any serious buyers, so they will be stuck in Auburn Hills for the foreseeable future.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Technically, it's called Ford Motor Company.

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I thought it was called Ford's.

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Originally Posted by 48307

I thought it was called Ford's.

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Like "Federal's Dept Store".

I don't really see why an auto supplier would move to downtown Detroit. Of that list I think Penske, Kelly Services, Flagstar and Meadowbrook would be the most likely candidates for a dmove to the city. It would be nice for Detroit to have a bank headquartered downtown again.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't really see why an auto supplier would move to downtown Detroit.

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Before filing for bankruptcy, Visteon intended to move some offices into One Kennedy Square.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Like "Federal's Dept Store".

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And Kmart's.

I like this new plan to move all major companies into Detroit. You have my full support.

The first 7 on your list have been where they are for quite some time, and it seems to have owned out nicely for them. They will need a very good corporate reason to leave where they are now, as well as a very good reason to choose the city for a new location.

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Originally Posted by renf

Taxes have some influence. Detroit is one of only 21 cities in the state with a city income tax. And it has the highest city income. The state might switch to one property tax rate for all properties in the state including those owned by non-profits. Then the city income taxes might be removed. We made some start on revising the state's tax system in Tuesday's election. Let's move toward a fixed property tax rate for all properties in Michigan and remove some of the local taxes including the income tax and Detroit's utility tax.

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Well put. In a similar vein, I would like to see insurance reform that would place SE Michigan under a single rate structure to eliminate the red-lined rates that punish CofD residents and businesses.

Those who choose to live in the City of Detroit 'pay' enough by dealing with crime issues and inferior services. It is unfair that they are also financially penalized because of them. It is well-known that those insurance rates also lead to 'bunking' to a avoid the higher rates by maintaining outside addresses thus depriving the City of revenue sharing and legislative clout.

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Originally Posted by jiminnm

The first 7 on your list have been where they are for quite some time, and it seems to have owned out nicely for them. They will need a very good corporate reason to leave where they are now, as well as a very good reason to choose the city for a new location.

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Minus the Pistons and Chrysler/Ford [[due to their huge respective campuses in the 'burbs), I think a fair amount of these businesses may be enticed to move into the city as they need to replace suburban-loving retiring employees with urban minded young professionals. The entire thing about younger people wanting to live in more urban areas is not a total myth, there is a very very healthy chunk that would prefer to live in a Ferndale or Midtown or Downtown or Royal Oak instead of a Troy or Auburn Hills or whatnot.

McLaren in Livonia on 8 mile would be a good candidate. They employ over 100 engineer types and do testing and fabrication of drivetrain components. They are trying to expand by adding a few stories to their existing building, and building a parking ramp to accomodate more employees, but residents are fighting the re-zoning, and so far, city council is siding with residents. Hate to see another Livonia company say bye-bye [[like Rock Financial did), but if residents are fighting the expansion, they may have to move. Here's the article:
http://www.hometownlife.com/article/...moving-forward

Hopefully Gilbert comes through and brings a couple of new companies to Detroit. Preferably startup technology companies.

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Originally Posted by 48307

I thought it was called Ford's.

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That's Fordz, with a "Z".

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Originally Posted by JoeGeds

McLaren in Livonia on 8 mile would be a good candidate. They employ over 100 engineer types and do testing and fabrication of drivetrain components. They are trying to expand by adding a few stories to their existing building, and building a parking ramp to accomodate more employees, but residents are fighting the re-zoning, and so far, city council is siding with residents. Hate to see another Livonia company say bye-bye [[like Rock Financial did), but if residents are fighting the expansion, they may have to move. Here's the article:
http://www.hometownlife.com/article/...moving-forward

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What absurd Nimbyism-- talk about biting the hand that feeds you. If you are a downtown building owner, you should be calling their execs to get them to call off their plans. I am sure Mike Duggan would join you on the call, too.

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Minus the Pistons and Chrysler/Ford [[due to their huge respective campuses in the 'burbs),

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Sure but with the Domestic 2 and what'll be left of Chrysler--- Both Ford and Chrylser maintain the HQ and R&D at one campus. GM NOT being in Warren is the strange one. Something I'm sort of surprised didn't happen during the bankruptcy. White elephants like the snazzy landmark HQs AND sprawling redundant office facilities 10 miles away usually don't both make it through. FWIW, allegedly the move from the RenCen was bandied about and then was quietly kiaboshed by higher authority because it would have been terrible optics. So, we should all thank ourselves as taxpayers for coughing up the dough to let GM keep its house AND cottage AND boat....

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The entire thing about younger people wanting to live in more urban areas is not a total myth,

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Agreed...which is why they move to places like Chicago. What is "myth" is that any company around here ...like a Kelly Services, has any reason to give a shit. When Kelly services DOESN't have 100 applications for ever job opening they're trying to staff, MAYBE they'll pick up their heads and wonder why... however, I don't see the answer EVER being, "well, it'd be really great if we had a downtown Detroit office building for this business".

We keep talking about the symptoms and not the disease. Detroit had all these places [[minus ford ...it's been in Dearborn forever) poached from it because they were either directly bribed to move to where they are or they followed clients and customers that were bribed to move out there. and by bribed I mean either through direct tax subsidy, or indirect subsidy in the form of cheap, new office/manufacturing space and cheap new houses, and "free" infrastructure.

Detroit isn't getting any of these companies back [[or any company at all) without luring them here with straight up cash on the table....or hoping a Billionaire owner [[Gilbert, Illitch..et al) is feeling charitable. And even with the charitable ones, it's apparently a tough sell. For example, I'm surprised Penske hasn't at LEAST moved the flag [[ala "Chrysler house") considering all his boosterism.

I know it's not feasible, because of detroit's legacy costs and it's bankrupt and it's a zero sum game of robbing peter to pay paul and the "free" infrastructure easily funded in the burbs is considered "wasted" on detroit...but it would be interesting to see what some serious LB Patterson type poaching could do. "Hi Masco? Yeah, it's Detroit here... Yeah, the city with the mansion your founder donated for the Mayors to live in as recognition for all DETROIT did for him...yup, still there. Crazy huh? So, you know how Ann Arbor gave you 10 million to set up your cabinets division out in BFE and move 350 jobs there? how's 500 million in both direct cash payment and infrastructure build out sound to relocate that division, along with the HQ up from Taylor...along with anything else you have lying around the metro area?

I mean shit, that's probably less than what Jones Day is going to make on the bankruptcy. /sarc

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Originally Posted by bailey

Sure but with the Domestic 2 and what'll be left of Chrysler--- Both Ford and Chrylser maintain the HQ and R&D at one campus. GM NOT being in Warren is the strange one. Something I'm sort of surprised didn't happen during the bankruptcy. White elephants like the snazzy landmark HQs AND sprawling redundant office facilities 10 miles away usually don't both make it through. FWIW, allegedly the move from the RenCen was bandied about and then was quietly kiaboshed by higher authority because it would have been terrible optics. So, we should all thank ourselves as taxpayers for coughing up the dough to let GM keep its house AND cottage AND boat....

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GM floated the idea but the Obama administration nixed it because they believed it would not significantly cut costs. Like you said, it would've been very bad optics... and not much reward. Could you imagine how Detroit's bankruptcy narrative would look if GM had moved out of Detroit while being supported by federal dollars? The government showed a lot of good foresight in the decision, IMO.

Not only that, but I really don't think Warren is set up to absorb a company the size of GM. 12 Mile, Van Dyke, Mound, and 696 are all a clusterfuck around rush hour on top of on going construction because of how shitty the roads are. Downtown Detroit is much better built to handle traffic exactly because it was designed to. The suburbs are pretty badly built at handling traffic. There needs to be a lot more freeways slicing up Oakland and Macomb County than there currently is.

Anyway, I'm actually more in favor of out-of-state companies locating in Detroit rather than local suburban ones. Just because a company moves from the suburbs downtown doesn't mean people will move with it. Most people don't even live in the same suburbs that they work in so it really wouldn't make that big of a difference resident-wise. Sure, a certain percentage of people will be more enticed into living in Detroit, but unless you're young, single, and already looking to live in a downtown/urban area, I wouldn't expect many workers to move. At least with out-of state companies, there's a better chance at having a fresh new population of residents rather than just shifting of the tri-county area.

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Originally Posted by bailey

FWIW, allegedly the move from the RenCen was bandied about and then was quietly kiaboshed by higher authority because it would have been terrible optics. So, we should all thank ourselves as taxpayers for coughing up the dough to let GM keep its house AND cottage AND boat....

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So how much do you think that will cost per capita across the entire country?? A dime, a quarter, 50 cents? When we look at the damage to the city that would have caused... it hardly seems worth mentioning, when spread out among the entire nation... unless your last name is Fouts! :p

As many start ups as we can get going. It's was the amazons and starbucks types that let Seattle lose Boeing to chi town with little more than a wave and a few choice words.

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Originally Posted by bailey

Detroit had all these places [[minus ford ...it's been in Dearborn forever) poached from it because they were either directly bribed to move to where they are or they followed clients and customers that were bribed to move out there.

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Minus Chrysler too. They were headquartered in Highland Park with a smaller part of the facility overlapping into Detroit.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

As many start ups as we can get going.

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Correct, endogenous growth from within it probably our best bet. Who knows which of the many successful starts from the last five years could be the next big thing at a national levels. In the meantime, though, established regional entities with the ability to move should not be overlooked. Moving to Detroit is not just playing musical chairs-- not in our current circumstances. Looking at Penske as a really obvious target.

Lets see, I have fifty or so employees in my office out on Big Beaver. Detroit comes calling with an attractive package. Do I hate my employees enough to subject them to a city income tax, a commute through unsafe areas, paying for parking, and having to run a gauntlet of panhandlers to get from the parking to the office?

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Lets see, I have fifty or so employees in my office out on Big Beaver. Detroit comes calling with an attractive package. Do I hate my employees enough to subject them to a city income tax, a commute through unsafe areas, paying for parking, and having to run a gauntlet of panhandlers to get from the parking to the office?

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You could offset the city income tax for your employees with a raise using some of the tax incentive savings you received from the city.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Lets see, I have fifty or so employees in my office out on Big Beaver. Detroit comes calling with an attractive package. Do I hate my employees enough to subject them to a city income tax, a commute through unsafe areas, paying for parking, and having to run a gauntlet of panhandlers to get from the parking to the office?

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Not only that, but real-live people walking around, pianos on the sidewalks, food trucks, riverwalks, lunch outside, and a dude selling self-produced Star Trek-themed rap cds.

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Originally Posted by Mackinaw

In the spirit of other good threads about what we'd like the downtown of 2020 to look like, and what sort of new small businesses are in demand in the city, I wanted to simply list some major employers located outside the City of Detroit who should be targeted for a move to the central city. Some may be more inclined than others. Some may have solid reasons for having a suburban campus, based on what they do. But I feel strongly that many can and should move to the central city, and that such a move-- as with Quicken and Compuware-- grows the pie and changes the growth vectors and perception of the city [[it would be nice to boast of having over 10 Fortune 500s in the city) and the region. It goes without saying that each such move would heat up the city's housing market, increase central city population, spur retail development, and increase transit usage/demand [[including regional transit). Dan Gilbert has allegedly attracted at least a few other businesses, and he reportedly constantly lobbies others in his local rotary club, so to speak, to come on down. Well, here are some more he can go after, and all of us too, using our collective, if small, influence:

Penske Automotive Group- #194 on Fortune500. Bloomfield Hills. The boss seems invested in changing the city…but his corporate HQ is a missing piece in the equation.
TRW Automotive- #165 on Fortune 500. Livonia.
Kelly Services- #468 on Fortune 500. Troy.
Lear- #177 on Fortune500. Southfield.
Masco Corp- #323 on Fortune 500. Taylor.
Visteon- #351 on Fortune 500. Van Buren Twp.
BorgWarner- #352 on Fortune 500. Auburn Hills.
The Detroit Pistons Basketball Club- Auburn Hills [[previously Detroit-based).
Chrysler Group LLC- Auburn Hills [[U.S. HQ)…has opened a small space in Dime Bldg.
Flagstar Bank- Troy.
Meadowbrook Insuance Group- Southfield. Largest business insurer based in MI.

And then there is this company called Ford.

Thoughts? Additions? Seems to me that many of these companies have impediments, such as owning their 'house' and likely not being able to find a buyer, like Chrysler or the Pistons. Others, who lease, should have more flexibility. Any insight as to which of these companies leases, or owns property that could be easily sold, would help.

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There are 700,000 of you; instead of looking for what you can "steal" from other Cities why don't you build your own Companies?

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

You could offset the city income tax for your employees with a raise using some of the tax incentive savings you received from the city.

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Beat me to the punch there. A few jobs ago my group had an outpost in the D... the old guard insisted the flag remain there...but they eventually lost that argument and was shuttered shortly after I got there--primarily because all the new management blood lived in exurban Oakland county and expenses of keeping Detroit were cutting into end of year bonuses for equity holders....I digress.

Anyway, for us at the downtown office, parking was paid and there were other perks given to offset the rather tiny matter of the income tax. Which of course created its own conflict as it was seen as "unfair" and unearned extra compensation for us by the exurban dwellers who worked out of the suburban office because THEY didn't get them...or [[what was really cheesing them off) access to free parking when they wanted to come into town for games.

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Originally Posted by coracle

There are 700,000 of you; instead of looking for what you can "steal" from other Cities why don't you build your own Companies?

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I'm sure you'll CC that to LBP and Fouts and Hackel and every economic development office in every major meto area in the entire world that looks to lure companies to their municipality right?

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Lets see, I have fifty or so employees in my office out on Big Beaver. Detroit comes calling with an attractive package. Do I hate my employees enough to subject them to a city income tax, a commute through unsafe areas, paying for parking, and having to run a gauntlet of panhandlers to get from the parking to the office?

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Now let's not exaggerate. The city income tax can be offset with a raise, driving on any highway or Woodward is not an unsafe commute, there aren't too many panhandlers in the core of downtown anymore, and parking isn't that expensive unless you have a private garage like at One Kennedy Square.

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Lets see, I have fifty or so employees in my office out on Big Beaver. Detroit comes calling with an attractive package. Do I hate my employees enough to subject them to a city income tax, a commute through unsafe areas, paying for parking, and having to run a gauntlet of panhandlers to get from the parking to the office?

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Well to start with... you must already hate your downriver employees.... subjecting them to taking the long way around via I-275/I-696/I-75 just to avoid the horrific unpleasantries of driving on the Freeways THRU Detroit.... :eek:

Now we are getting into some good merits discussion. Hermod, I think most of your concerns are overblown, illogical, or outdated, and if your employees are something other than robots, i.e. people with brains that require stimulation and hearts that require human interaction, then your concerns will be outweighed by the benefits of the urban work environment. I could not imagine working in an office park with noplace to go outside; I have been privileged to have my choice of employment location and always be located in a downtown. Walking and moving about has been proven to increase brain activity and blood flow. Aside from the physical and mental health of your employees, you should care about their productivity. The legal briefs and analyses I write are generally better when I take time to think, and when I walk somewhere outside for lunch or coffee my make the blood flow. I cannot think, and I cannot get my blood flowing, by staying at my desk, or by walking down the first floor of the building to a cafeteria and coming back up. Nor can I stand the thought of not having options as to how I live my daily live. I MUST get a car. I MUST drive on a highway daily. I MUST eat the cafeteria food or DRIVE or pay delivery to get anything else. And if I want to dare see a show, ballgame, or have social time on a weeknight, which I like to do frequently, I'll need to leave early and sit in traffic to go downtown.

I would never work at your office on Big Beaver road. And you should really lobby to get that road name changed.

Big Beaver Rd? Why would anyone who isn't from Troy/Sterling Heights want to work there? Unless you're a stone throw from Somerset, working in endless suburbia doesn't sound too enticing to me. It's easier to drive downtown from the western suburbs, Ann Arbor, downriver, Grosse Pointe...probably even Royal Oak than it is to drive to somewhere on that awfully named road.

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Originally Posted by Wings

Now let's not exaggerate. The city income tax can be offset with a raise, driving on any highway or Woodward is not an unsafe commute, there aren't too many panhandlers in the core of downtown anymore, and parking isn't that expensive unless you have a private garage like at One Kennedy Square.

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Driving on any street in Detroit isn't "unsafe." Only a cetain type of foolish person would think otherwise.

Gratiot is jacked up every day in/out of downtown during rush hour with suburbanites from Macomb County...

I hope that state's leader will consider the issue of city income taxes. On Tuesday we voted to eliminate one tax with the revenue to be made up by some mysterious yet to be fully determined source. I believe that Detroit's income tax is higher than the limit set by the state. Detroit, I believe, obtained permission to temporarily impose an income tax above 2 percent. Presumably, if gambling revenues greatly pick up - and they are now moving in the other direction - the city will reduce the income tax rate.

It is time for an evaluation of the very many taxes the state imposes. We could have a much
more equitable tax system in Michigan and eliminate the city income tax in the 21 locations that now impose it.

I sometimes peruse metromodemedia.com and write suburban companies that are expanding and looking for new space to consider locating in the city. I bet if they received enough well written suggestions selling the move to Detroit, someone might start to pay attention.

Stealing companies from the suburbs does not grow wealth for the entire region. All it does is move people around. Downtown does not need another huge corporation, it needs lots of small companies. What is better is try to be innovative at what we currently do, and try to build stuff we currently import from outside the Detroit area.

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Originally Posted by Mackinaw

Now we are getting into some good merits discussion. Hermod, I think most of your concerns are overblown, illogical, or outdated, and if your employees are something other than robots, i.e. people with brains that require stimulation and hearts that require human interaction, then your concerns will be outweighed by the benefits of the urban work environment. I could not imagine working in an office park with noplace to go outside; I have been privileged to have my choice of employment location and always be located in a downtown. Walking and moving about has been proven to increase brain activity and blood flow. Aside from the physical and mental health of your employees, you should care about their productivity. The legal briefs and analyses I write are generally better when I take time to think, and when I walk somewhere outside for lunch or coffee my make the blood flow. I cannot think, and I cannot get my blood flowing, by staying at my desk, or by walking down the first floor of the building to a cafeteria and coming back up. Nor can I stand the thought of not having options as to how I live my daily live. I MUST get a car. I MUST drive on a highway daily. I MUST eat the cafeteria food or DRIVE or pay delivery to get anything else. And if I want to dare see a show, ballgame, or have social time on a weeknight, which I like to do frequently, I'll need to leave early and sit in traffic to go downtown.

I would never work at your office on Big Beaver road. And you should really lobby to get that road name changed.

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Have you ever been to Chrysler? Their paths and trails through the forest put to shame any mid-afternoon bum-shit dodging stroll in CBD. Been in the area of Town Center in Southfield? A walk under the trees along the upper Rouge is pretty awesome, too.

The city needs everything it can get. Home grown, innovative, high growth companies are the best route to creating more regional wealth, but a strong central city will also need to pull some more companies from the suburbs, any kind be it major corporations [[probably unlikely) to small and mid sized companies.

Here's a crazy thought. Remove city government offices from the City-County Building [[CAY) and put them into some of the vacant buildings [[not owned by Gilbert) along Woodward/Griswold/Washington Blvd, and or Broadway. Then tear down the CCB/CAY and offer the property up to a company that wants to build a world class world headquarters building on that property. Imagine if we could get Ford out of their "Glass House" in Dearborn. Now that would be a coup.

Also, before it was announced that a New York based company had bought the old Wayne County Building, I definitely felt that Jeffrey Figer should have bought that building and moved his law offices from Southfield to there. Somewhere I remember a commercial or ad in the paper where he and his lawyers were standing on the steps of the Wayne County Building. Now, that would have been a coup.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

You could offset the city income tax for your employees with a raise using some of the tax incentive savings you received from the city.

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That would be nice but the satellite office I work for of 35 people, I don't think is big enough to get tax incentives. Most of the tax incentives I've seen are given to companies like BCBS and QL who move 100s or 1000s of workers. And since our numbers are soft, corporate couldn't afford to give us raises to offset the income tax. So while my company would fit in perfectly downtown, we have to stay in the suburbs. :mad:

Royce I like where your head is at, but there is no need to do that. We've got three city-controlled front-and-center development parcels for a new corporate HQ: Monroe Block, Hudson Block and Ford Auditorium [[though they probably just want to hold onto it for something lame like a bigger hart plaza). Then there are probably a half-dozen ready made other parcels for tall things, like Randolph @ E. Fort [[whole block), a few small blocks around the financial district that would be perfect for tall, slender buildings, and take your pick of parking lots east of the Ren Cen. In short, no need to move mountains, or city hall.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Stealing companies from the suburbs does not grow wealth for the entire region. All it does is move people around. Downtown does not need another huge corporation, it needs lots of small companies. What is better is try to be innovative at what we currently do, and try to build stuff we currently import from outside the Detroit area.

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Planner,
I agree that growing business from within is the best option, with second best being a move from another region into the metro area. However, I disagree that a company moving from the suburbs to Downtown is a zero sum game. When an area like Downtown Detroit has been down and out for so long, when something positive happens, it is usually a catalyst. The ROI is immense, because TBH, Detroit needs employment more than Troy does. That is not a subjective statement, it is fact.

When visitors come into town and see a vibrant downtown, word spreads. With a healthy downtown core, the metro area is going to be considered a lot more for corporate moves and expansions. It is a case where if you can fix the weakest link in the chain, the chain as a whole improves.

I will agree that after a certain point, which Detroit has not yet reached, it does become closer to a zero sum game. However, there is still housing to consider. When a company locates downtown, their employees are much more likely to live closer to the urban core [[not necessarily Detroit, but more likely Livonia than Walled Lake). If a company opens in Wixom, the employees can live in Brighton or Walled Lake. So therefore having employment Downtown helps to curb sprawl and helps us generate tax revenue to reinvest in ailing infrastructure.

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Originally Posted by coracle

There are 700,000 of you; instead of looking for what you can "steal" from other Cities why don't you build your own Companies?

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So using your logic... maybe we should "steal back".... what was built in Detroit to begin with??

Paging AAA in Dearborn... and Plante Moran in Southfield.... come on back.... ;)

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Originally Posted by JDKeepsmiling

Planner,
I agree that growing business from within is the best option, with second best being a move from another region into the metro area. However, I disagree that a company moving from the suburbs to Downtown is a zero sum game. When an area like Downtown Detroit has been down and out for so long, when something positive happens, it is usually a catalyst. The ROI is immense, because TBH, Detroit needs employment more than Troy does. That is not a subjective statement, it is fact.

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The reality is that there is plenty of office and industrial space everywhere in the metropolitan area that is underutilized. When this happens, rents stay low and leases are signed at bargain rates. Most buildings and communities outside of Detroit proper do not want to lose their businesses and will do what they can to entice them to stay.

The cost of doing business downtown is fairly high when you start to include things such as additional taxes, parking for clients, etc. Granted a lot of this is assumed in the lease or in the operating costs but it is there. Not all of Detroit's area for doing business is downtown. In fact the vast majority of it is not. That is where the risk/reward is and it is also where people live [[remember there are still over 700k who live in the City proper, 90-95% whom do not live near the CBD). This is where we need innovative smaller businesses. It would also do a heck of a lot more to make Detroit vibrant both in appearance and improve its economic condition.

Planner, the regional glut of office space is not related to the notions that JD hits on, which is that higher concentration downtown is better for the region, in addition to Detroit itself. One can agree or disagree with the premise that it helps the region, but the fact that the region has too much space is not an argument against the premise, nor an argument against encouraging companies to move downtown. It is just a fact, and it calls for us to take measures that encourage 1) migration to the region from other states and 2) vigorous endogenous growth [[I think we're starting to see this; we are much more entrepreneurial than we were in 2008), while leaving it in the hands of building owners to deal with their glut of space or try to improve their space to command higher rents, regardless of where they are located. These are important concerns, but don't directly relate to the pros and cons of the proposal being discussed.

But the proposal being discussed may in fact relate to the glut of space [[i.e. lack of regional employers). As JD argues, and again, we can agree or disagree, our ability to accomplish #1 above is probably enhanced if we have more urban concentration. I agree, And I would argue that #2 might have enhanced potential, too. Ironically enough, even though so much is done virtually, physical concentration of ideas-makers and implementers still matters. See Silicon Valley, Boston, and most recently, Detroit. Business and innovation communities are still a real thing, so I think consolidating/concentrating/collapsing people across this particularly sprawling region into smaller spaces or corridors, be it entirely downtown Detroit, or perhaps the whole Woodward corridor into southern Oakland County, is quite possibly in everyone's best interests.

Mackinaw, economically when one makes a decision to move somewhere it is not always altruistic. This is particularly true for a corporation or small company. It is based on the lowest cost to operate as well as the best place to make a return on your investment.

The glut of space [[you seem to think that only office space matters, but industrial and retail are still very large sectors, particularly here) in the region does come into play. The more of it there is, the less it is valued. I can see how low rent and no local income tax for most employees would be a very attractive feature to locating a business. Another would be in the cost of doing business. Detroit has taxes on utilities, it also has a higher premium for transportation, be it parking or the cost of operating public transit. It also has smaller footprints in many places that makes it hard to get product in or out of the plant. This is reality. This is why smaller is better in terms of locating businesses in the City.

Am I saying I would boo a fortune 500 company coming to Detroit? No way! I am saying that it makes better sense to concentrate on getting smaller companies in the City than large HQ or a new Factory that will wipe our another neighborhood.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Am I saying I would boo a fortune 500 company coming to Detroit? No way! I am saying that it makes better sense to concentrate on getting smaller companies in the City than large HQ or a new Factory that will wipe our another neighborhood.

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100% agree We want to catch lightning in a bottle. Fast growing businesses. The more small companies and start ups the better the chances of that happening.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Am I saying I would boo a fortune 500 company coming to Detroit? No way! I am saying that it makes better sense to concentrate on getting smaller companies in the City than large HQ or a new Factory that will wipe our another neighborhood.

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I would never be okay with that, either. Poletown was a travesty. To clarify, this is not something we should encourage under the view promoted here. To the extent industrial expansion from a land-use perspective somehow occurs organically, that's fine [[we're seeing that in Corktown, but, the sites were actually already industrial, at least in the last generation), but we should never seek out the scenario you mention. I was mostly talking about corporate HQs and employment centers, and indeed smaller employers.

Altruism, though a real thing for economic actors, obviously cannot be counted on. I agree. This is why tax incentives/abatements are a proper measure to take when they can make a deal happen. And to the extent that across the board reforms can occur to make the City more appealing for employers [[and to administer benefits fairly and not only to desired new entrants), those should be vigorously pursued.

According to Crains, Comerica's Asset Management Group is moving from Birmingham to downtown Detroit, 411 W. Lafayette specifically. They are moving 21 employees downtown.

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Originally Posted by Wings

Big Beaver Rd? Why would anyone who isn't from Troy/Sterling Heights want to work there?

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Why wouldn't they? It's a lot more convenient to where decisionmakers live than most places in the metro area. This means more time for family, leisure, and whatever you actually enjoy in life.

I go to work to work. I'm not there for anything else. And it isn't like there are good alternatives in the area anyways. Downtown Detroit isn't exactly a pleasant pedestrian experience.

Anyone else hear that some good office space is about to become available? A little consortium known as Rogue got the boot today. Smart money also says that a local lux auto brand is lining up for a move east a few states. You read it here, first.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Why wouldn't they? It's a lot more convenient to where decisionmakers live than most places in the metro area. This means more time for family, leisure, and whatever you actually enjoy in life.

I go to work to work. I'm not there for anything else. And it isn't like there are good alternatives in the area anyways. Downtown Detroit isn't exactly a pleasant pedestrian experience.

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That's not true. There are plenty of "decisionmakers" looking to live in Northville/Novi/Plymouth, Ann Arbor, even Grosse Pointe that would hate a longer commute to Troy than Detroit.


That is personal preference, a lot of people aren't looking to go to work to sit at their desk for 8 hours and never leave the office. And you clearly haven't been downtown during lunch time on a business today. Absolutely thriving around Campus Martius, CBD, Greektown, etc.

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Originally Posted by Wings

That's not true. There are plenty of "decisionmakers" looking to live in Northville/Novi/Plymouth, Ann Arbor, even Grosse Pointe that would hate a longer commute to Troy than Detroit.

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Ok, and how does that contradict what I wrote?

I said that most decisionmakers are close to Troy. The fact that some are in other locales is quite obvious.

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Originally Posted by Wings

That is personal preference, a lot of people aren't looking to go to work to sit at their desk for 8 hours and never leave the office. And you clearly haven't been downtown during lunch time on a business today. Absolutely thriving around Campus Martius, CBD, Greektown, etc.

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You clearly haven't traveled outside Michigan if you consider downtown Detroit "absolutely thriving".

It's among the deadest downtowns of any major city on the planet, and I don't even know why this matters, as if people are picking jobs based on the possibility of skipping out on work to take pleasant strolls through the January tundra.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Why wouldn't they? It's a lot more convenient to where decisionmakers live than most places in the metro area. This means more time for family, leisure, and whatever you actually enjoy in life.

I go to work to work. I'm not there for anything else. And it isn't like there are good alternatives in the area anyways. Downtown Detroit isn't exactly a pleasant pedestrian experience.

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Downtown Detroit is obviously a much more pleasant pedestrian experience than Big Beaver Rd [[or anywhere else in Troy).

Proximity to "decision makers" is such a flimsy argument for why a company would choose to locate a business in Troy. It's much more likely that "decision makers" would chose to locate themselves near the business, if that's a major concern.

Benzinga, a Southfield based financial news tech company is moving to Detroit in early 2015. Great news keep them coming into the city!
http://www.freep.com/story/money/bus...roit/19642347/

Yet unfortunately Covisint is doing the opposite, packing up and leaving downtown Detroit for Southfield...and taking 250 jobs with them. Why couldn't Covisint be convinced to stay downtown?

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Originally Posted by Mind field

Yet unfortunately Covisint is doing the opposite, packing up and leaving downtown Detroit for Southfield...and taking 250 jobs with them. Why couldn't Covisint be convinced to stay downtown?

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pretty sure they were bleeding money and got priced out of downtown

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ndustrial-park

Penske and Lear?

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Originally Posted by gameguy56

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ndustrial-park

Penske and Lear?

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I suppose we'll then have to hear more whining from L. Brooks Patterson about companies being poached...

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Originally Posted by gameguy56

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ndustrial-park

Penske and Lear?

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That would be HUGE if they uprooted from Oakland County. Aren't they both fortune 500 companies? Or I'm guessing this wouldn't be a headquarters move, just an expansion into the city.

Has there been any update on this story. I assume we're only talking about an operational facility and not a corporate presence.