Armed robber thwarted at Packard - "no crime committed" say police

Yesterday myself and Django were on Concord Street on the eastern side of the Packard Plant for some photography of the building's exterior.

There is 24/7 security on-site now, but only one guard at any given time. The guard is friendly enough, un-armed and keeps a close eye on things. He won't allow access to the inside of the plant [[stick to the main streets) and says he phones the Sheriff if anyone is found inside.

Anyway, I was shooting some pix on Concord while Django sat in his pick-up truck. The next thing I hear is Django saying "Get in the car!". I looked around and saw some youths in hoodies walking towards me. [[Hoodies in summertime?)

I picked up my camera bag, walked over to the pick-up and threw the bag into the back of the truck. Then I went back for my tripod. As I walked towards the car with it, I noticed one youth running straight towards me. I threw the tripod into the truck and dived into the back of the truck, lying on top of my equipment.

By this stage the youth had reached the truck and was holding what appeared to be a Glock pistol. He was standing at the passenger window and yelled "Give it up!".

Django was in the driver's seat unaware that the kid had a gun. I could see it plainly. The next thing I heard was the screech of our tires on the road and we got out of there.

As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot. Luckily the youth didn't fire, or maybe he only had a replica or unloaded pistol.

I asked Django whether we should report the matter to Police. He seemed to think there was little point, but we saw the Packard security guard driving by and pulled up beside him. He phoned police and three or four squad cars arrived in quick time.

We did our best to give a description of the thugs. The police went cruising around to look for them but I don't know what they found, if anything.

According to the police no crime was committed because the thieves got nothing from me and "seeing someone with a gun" is not a crime.

We made it out safely, but a guy brandishing a pistol within inches of us is "not a crime"?

Where was yours?

I'm Australian. I don't live in Detroit. I'm not a US citizen or a US resident, so presumably I don't qualify for a pistol licence [[?). Does anyone know if that is correct?

Really now if the guy was waving a gun at you and you felt in fear for your life you could'a used it legally. Running was the first thing on the agenda but it sounds like he had you.

Florida has got it right now and I'm waiting on Michigan to do the same.

Florida warning shot law

You seen first hand the cops attitude towards your situation. Can't blame 'em.

If you can answer the questions lawfully and not denied by the NICS background check I think you could.

The concealed permit is something else.

https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

You had no business being there. I mean its the most dangerous city in America and you're shooting pictures of some old broken down factory. We've all heard the warnings on this board about that area and how people are waiting there to rob you. Can you imagine getting killed because of taking photos of the Packard... Dude, don't risk your life for photos anymore.

Brandishing a pistol is a crime in Michigan. Allowing someone to see a pistol probably isn't. Based on your account, I would say that there was a crime in there.

So would I... a plainly aggressive act, running straight towards us and pulling out a pistol while saying "Give it up!"

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Originally Posted by night-timer

I'm Australian. I don't live in Detroit. I'm not a US citizen or a US resident, so presumably I don't qualify for a pistol licence [[?). Does anyone know if that is correct?

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Only legal Michigan residents can purchase a pistol in Michigan.

The Packard Plant is probably the best place in Detroit for thieves to pick up expensive cameras.

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Originally Posted by night-timer

According to the police no crime was committed because the thieves got nothing from me and "seeing someone with a gun" is not a crime.

We made it out safely, but a guy brandishing a pistol within inches of us is "not a crime"?

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That's still attempted robbery. How the fuck do the police disregard that?

I find the title of this post a bit misleading, because actually no crime was "thwarted". I would say it's more like you escaped in one piece and were lucky to still be alive. The perp could've easily emptied his Glock, [[are you sure it was a Glock and not a Sig or a Taurus?) into you, lying there helpless in the back of Django's pickup, for being a smart-ass, and not doing as you were told. With all the hundreds of thousands of Packard ruin-porn shots floating around on the internet, why bother? Why take the chance? The whole ruin-porn thing has kind of come and gone anyway. Curious, though, does Django give his customers a refund if they're shot through the head?

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Originally Posted by Cliffy

You had no business being there. I mean its the most dangerous city in America and you're shooting pictures of some old broken down factory. We've all heard the warnings on this board about that area and how people are waiting there to rob you. Can you imagine getting killed because of taking photos of the Packard... Dude, don't risk your life for photos anymore.

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Most people don't have any business going around pointing their gun at others and trying to take their things. Can you imagine being able to rob people and get away with it just because they "should have known better"? Why doesn't every criminal use that excuse all the time?!

I must've driven by as this was all going down. I was on my way home from Belle Isle when I was passed by two DPD Dodges on Grand Blvd. They stopped in front of the Packard plant where a guy in an old brown Crown Vic [[the security guard?) was waiting for them. I wondered what was going on since the cops were in too big of a hurry to be going after trespassers.

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Originally Posted by scottn55

I must've driven by as this was all going down. I was on my way home from Belle Isle when I was passed by two DPD Dodges on Grand Blvd. They stopped in front of the Packard plant where a guy in an old brown Crown Vic [[the security guard?) was waiting for them. I wondered what was going on since the cops were in too big of a hurry to be going after trespassers.

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The Packard security guard sits in a gold coloured sedan. I don't know the make or model because I'm not familiar with your local US cars. The Police arrived and the three or four squad cars were all parked on the intersection of Grand Boulevard and Concord, just near the Packard footbridge above Grand Boulevard. I don't know anything about guns, either - it was a small black pistol. Could've been anything.

Night Timer is a professional photographer, hes not just taking quick snaps of ruin porn but taking large often times 360 panoramas. When we started out taking pics in the city I had told Night Timer that if I tell him to "get in the truck NOW" he should get in the truck asap. When I saw these two with full hoodies up walking toward us I quickly pulled up to N.T. and told him to get in the truck NOW. He scooped up his bag and did not walk back but ran to the the truck dumping all his gear in the back then went back for the tri pod and literally jumped into the back as I hit the gas. I was concentrating on getting the frick outta there so I didn't get a look at them but when I heard him say "give it up" I then knew he had a gun. We were lucky he didn't shoot. Night Timer is convinced I did the right thing but it could have gone wrong because of that decision I had to make.

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Originally Posted by animatedmartian

Most people don't have any business going around pointing their gun at others and trying to take their things. Can you imagine being able to rob people and get away with it just because they "should have known better"? Why doesn't every criminal use that excuse all the time?!

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http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ssaults-thefts

Django did the right thing getting us out of there. I know there were risks, but I have to get the job done. I guess it's not for everyone, LOL.

Great teamwork between me and Django. Scotch on the Rocks afterwards tasted great and everyone in the bar was amused by our little anecdote.

Sorry this happened. I'll never take that kind of work for granted again.

I'm curious if you guys are planning to return to finish the job. Maybe with your own security next time?

BTW, Django and myself were NOT trespassing at the Packard. I openly introduced myself to the on-site security guard and told him I would be sticking to the main roads only. I did not at any time enter the plant or trespass. We were on/around Grand Boulevard and Concord Street.

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Originally Posted by Cliffy

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ssaults-thefts

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So what, are the police going to ask victims if they checked the internet before going to Packard? In that particular thread, most of the cases occurred on the property and pretty much all parties involved were trespassing. However, in this thread, the OP was on public property. Regardless, why are you defending the actions of criminals? They're the ones who are doing wrong and shouldn't be allowed to take other people's stuff, violently or otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Jimaz

Sorry this happened. I'll never take that kind of work for granted again.

I'm curious if you guys are planning to return to finish the job. Maybe with your own security next time?

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I'm not sure, Jimaz. I had planned to film a few interviews there. I'm not sure what security arrangements or precautions to put in place. Whatever happens, I'll be taking a break from that plant for a few days, that's for sure.

For years I've had to be cautious when carrying expensive equipment. Detroit is obviously a prime example.

I told the cops, "I know this is a run-down area to be in, but the Packard is a tourist attraction in its own strange way".

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Originally Posted by night-timer

Yesterday myself and Django were on Concord Street on the eastern side of the Packard Plant for some photography of the building's exterior.

There is 24/7 security on-site now, but only one guard at any given time. The guard is friendly enough, un-armed and keeps a close eye on things. He won't allow access to the inside of the plant [[stick to the main streets) and says he phones the Sheriff if anyone is found inside.

Anyway, I was shooting some pix on Concord while Django sat in his pick-up truck. The next thing I hear is Django saying "Get in the car!". I looked around and saw some youths in hoodies walking towards me. [[Hoodies in summertime?)

I picked up my camera bag, walked over to the pick-up and threw the bag into the back of the truck. Then I went back for my tripod. As I walked towards the car with it, I noticed one youth running straight towards me. I threw the tripod into the truck and dived into the back of the truck, lying on top of my equipment.

By this stage the youth had reached the truck and was holding what appeared to be a Glock pistol. He was standing at the passenger window and yelled "Give it up!".

Django was in the driver's seat unaware that the kid had a gun. I could see it plainly. The next thing I heard was the screech of our tires on the road and we got out of there.

As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot. Luckily the youth didn't fire, or maybe he only had a replica or unloaded pistol.

I asked Django whether we should report the matter to Police. He seemed to think there was little point, but we saw the Packard security guard driving by and pulled up beside him. He phoned police and three or four squad cars arrived in quick time.

We did our best to give a description of the thugs. The police went cruising around to look for them but I don't know what they found, if anything.

According to the police no crime was committed because the thieves got nothing from me and "seeing someone with a gun" is not a crime.

We made it out safely, but a guy brandishing a pistol within inches of us is "not a crime"?

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You too were at the wrong place and wrong time. Almost got killed by black males wearing hoodies. That would be a lesson to you both. Don't scope out any abandon buildings in the ghetto hoods in Detroit without some protection. I learn that while I did some snooping at some dangerous and abandon buildings in Detroit long ago. I have my piece with and my Street Prophets with me.

Attempted armed robbery and the police were not concerned? WTF.
Glad you guys made it out of it without getting hurt.

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Originally Posted by night-timer

I'm Australian. I don't live in Detroit. I'm not a US citizen or a US resident, so presumably I don't qualify for a pistol licence [[?). Does anyone know if that is correct?

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That would be correct

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1tj2zJ2Wvg

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Originally Posted by animatedmartian

So what, are the police going to ask victims if they checked the internet before going to Packard? In that particular thread, most of the cases occurred on the property and pretty much all parties involved were trespassing. However, in this thread, the OP was on public property. Regardless, why are you defending the actions of criminals? They're the ones who are doing wrong and shouldn't be allowed to take other people's stuff, violently or otherwise.

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Common sense. Don't be walking in the "hood" with expensive equipment and setting up photography shoots. Just like I don't walk 6 mile and Gratiot. Because their are ghetto thugs ready to pounce on me.

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Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That's still attempted robbery. How the fuck do the police disregard that?

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On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

The cops hit this right. Your word against someone else's. I say that guy with the gun actually just found something of yours on the ground and wanted to return it. His social skills are a bit lacking. And he carries a gun because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood. He's actually quite a nice guy, I hear.

Django gives a good tour. He is knowledgable and informative. Sounds like he did the right thing and hats off to NightTimer for following orders.

next time, though, forget the tripod. Yes I know they are expensive, but not worth the cost you almost paid. Also, keep a handful of singles in your pocket and throw them in the air when being chased.

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Originally Posted by gnome

Django gives a good tour. He is knowledgable and informative. Sounds like he did the right thing and hats off to NightTimer for following orders.

next time, though, forget the tripod. Yes I know they are expensive, but not worth the cost you almost paid. Also, keep a handful of singles in your pocket and throw them in the air when being chased.

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Gnome, that's great advice and I truly appreciate it. Thank you! Those tid-bits of local knowledge and street advice are good.

Myself and Django met for a few beers tonight as a post-script to our Packard adventure yesterday. We work well together and we are on the same wave-length. I'm glad he was there for me.

On a separate but similar topic, maybe I'm too charitable, but I almost feel sorry for those "stick-up kids" yesterday; three young men in their 20s [[in the prime of their lives) living such a negative and desperate lifestyle. They wanted to do me harm, but I still feel for those poor, young men.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

The cops hit this right. Your word against someone else's. I say that guy with the gun actually just found something of yours on the ground and wanted to return it. His social skills are a bit lacking. And he carries a gun because he lives in a dangerous neighborhood. He's actually quite a nice guy, I hear.

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Wesley, sorry but I'm from Sydney, Australia. I don't understand a word of what you just said.

And who, or what, is S&F?

S&F = Stop and Frisk. Just guessing. :)

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Originally Posted by aoife

Attempted armed robbery and the police were not concerned? WTF.

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Don't worry, Lord Gilbert got three teen girls charged with felonies for tagging his property. You know, real criminals.

Pure Detroit.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

On one hand, we fight against S&F. Then on the other hand, we complain that the cops don't make judgement calls. Which do we want.

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This is not really a correctly framed question. I didn't see anyone suggesting that police not make judgment calls, but of course people want police to use good judgment. The problem with stop and frisk isn't that people are stopped and frisked. The problem is that they are stopped and frisked for no particular reason, or for an illegitimate reason, which is both a waste of police resources and an imposition on those being stopped, and which makes it hard for the police to have a constructive relationship with the community they are policing.

On the other hand, if someone complains that they have just been threatened with a handgun, that is an actual reason to stop someone, check to make sure the gun is legal, check if they have outstanding warrants. The two situations have basically nothing to do with each other.

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Originally Posted by Cliffy

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ssaults-thefts

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Yep, this is the most eye opening thread about crime in Detroit, excepting for DetroitNerd's "Ooooh, something awful happened in Detroit!" comment about a guy being beaten nearly to death by group of people in Detroit. DetroitNerd's contention that the whole affair was a joke, was confirmed by the Courts in Detroit.

The thread you posted makes it very clear, that being in the area, justifies the actions, of those who would help themselves to what is "available".

So if getting beaten into a comma is a joke, "Ooooh", and simply being at the Packard Plant justifies the actions of others, what happened to the OP would be a crime anywhere but Detroit.

you go to that neighborhood at your own risk. It looks the way it does for a reason. The locals are disadvantaged, not much opportunity or money around and you my Australian friend looked like an opportunity. People around there know outsiders are drawn to the Packard. Its also a depopulated area, some blocks have a couple houses and if they target people in the neighborhood there is a better chance their victim will know who they are or will be able to find out without much trouble. Plus people in the neighborhood dont have much for the taking to begin with.
I think you made the right decision to GTFO. Might have taken the truck, all of your belongings and left you both standing there. They could have just shot you and took your shit too. Dont let there be a next time but seriously. A tripod isnt worth getting shot over

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Originally Posted by Danny

Almost got killed by black males wearing hoodies.

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night timer said 'youths' but never what color their skin was. maybe you were witness to the party ?

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Originally Posted by compn

night timer said 'youths' but never what color their skin was. maybe you were witness to the party ?

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and the probability that his assumption was in error?

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Originally Posted by compn

night timer said 'youths' but never what color their skin was. maybe you were witness to the party ?

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I'm sure they were white youths LOL

coulda been a juggalo gang member!

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Originally Posted by rex

It looks the way it does for a reason.

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Because it's had a big ass abandoned auto plant sitting and rotting there for the past 60 years.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Because it's had a big ass abandoned auto plant sitting and rotting there for the past 60 years.

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No actually i mean because its one of the most impoverished neighborhoods in the nation. Feel free to disagree

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Originally Posted by animatedmartian

That's still attempted robbery. How the fuck do the police disregard that?

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It looks like the DPD is playing the "lets manipulate the crime statistics game" like the NYPD to make the city sound safer than it actually is. It sounds like someone higher up is telling front line officers not to process crimes that have a low chance of getting cleared. So by an officer not registering a crime happened, it looks like the crime rate in Detroit went down and the clearance rate for solving crimes went up when the DPD is just refusing to register a crime happened. It's wrong. The NYPD is notorious for not processing serious crimes and the DPD is following their example. I posted a long thread about what the NYPD was doing and how the 81st Brooklyn precinct was busted when one of their officers told the media about what they were doing here==> http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?15627-40-less-crime-would-do-wonders-for-Detroit`

Someone needs to tell Mayor Duggan this is unacceptable.

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

It looks like the DPD is playing the "lets manipulate the crime statistics game" like the NYPD to make the city sound safer than it actually is. It sounds like someone higher up is telling front line officers not to process crimes that have a low chance of getting cleared. So by an officer not registering a crime happened, it looks like the crime rate in Detroit went down and the clearance rate for solving crimes went up when the DPD is just refusing to register a crime happened. It's wrong. The NYPD is notorious for not processing serious crimes and the DPD is following their example. I posted a long thread about what the NYPD was doing and how the 81st Brooklyn precinct was busted when one of their officers told the media about what they were doing here==> http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthread.php?15627-40-less-crime-would-do-wonders-for-Detroit`

Someone needs to tell Mayor Duggan this is unacceptable.

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Dave Windsor, I think you speak the truth... thanks to all of you for your insights, your opinions and for your Detroit local knowledge!

Ok everyone, lets all calm down with some reality. The mayor doesn't have to be called in immediately. First and foremost did not 4 patrol cars respond? Not bad, not bad at all for a possible attempted robbery; two guys in hoodies one running with a gun, everyone is okay, nothing damaged or stolen and there isn't anything to go on like a vehicle or a known associate or identity, just two guys in hoodies. What would really be the point in filling out a bunch of paper work? The cops already know that this particular bad guys future has been settled one way or the other, but that this event is not going to be the one that settles it. Drive around see what you can see, who might still be hanging around sounds a little more practical. Pass the word around to the cops that work the packard plant area that a photographer tourist had a close call with bad guys should be a reasonable plan of attack. What are they supposed to do start dragging guys in for a line up? Based on what? A hoodie? Everyone knows that the DPD has plenty of work to do and they do exactly what the rest of us do, prioritize, and respond accordingly. The priority I would think is to respond to serious calls as quickly as they can where they can do some good. Not wasting valuable time on a complete dead end just to make someone feel better about having to make a fast exit flashing expensive camera gear in a very rough part of town.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Ok everyone, lets all calm down with some reality. The mayor doesn't have to be called in immediately.

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1. what fookin good are 4 cops [[or 400) when the criminals run free and the police abandon the search?
its like you get 4 firefighter trucks to show up at your burning house, but then they dont bother trying to save your house and let it burn.

2. a report is useless? do you seriously believe that? what if they got a sketch artist from night timer and catch the guy and link him to this crime so he ends up doing time for his misdeeds?

isnt that a huge gripe with the city currently on this forum? that judges go easy on 'they boys' and criminals are rotated out of jail very quickly? well if they linked this guy to multiple crimes he would be behind bars for longer periods of time.

did the armed robber touch the truck? maybe they can pull his prints?! ever think of that?

3. i do agree with you about the mayor. because the mayor isnt in charge of the police force.
you'd have to call kevyn orr and hes not takin your calls, sucka!

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Ok everyone, lets all calm down with some reality. The mayor doesn't have to be called in immediately. First and foremost did not 4 patrol cars respond? Not bad, not bad at all for a possible attempted robbery; two guys in hoodies one running with a gun, everyone is okay, nothing damaged or stolen and there isn't anything to go on like a vehicle or a known associate or identity, just two guys in hoodies. What would really be the point in filling out a bunch of paper work? The cops already know that this particular bad guys future has been settled one way or the other, but that this event is not going to be the one that settles it. Drive around see what you can see, who might still be hanging around sounds a little more practical. Pass the word around to the cops that work the packard plant area that a photographer tourist had a close call with bad guys should be a reasonable plan of attack. What are they supposed to do start dragging guys in for a line up? Based on what? A hoodie? Everyone knows that the DPD has plenty of work to do and they do exactly what the rest of us do, prioritize, and respond accordingly. The priority I would think is to respond to serious calls as quickly as they can where they can do some good. Not wasting valuable time on a complete dead end just to make someone feel better about having to make a fast exit flashing expensive camera gear in a very rough part of town.

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I basically agree with this, but it isn't adequate. If someone tells the police that they either just had a gun brandished at them, or that someone just attempted an armed robbery, it doesn't seem unreasonable for them to be told that given the small amount of information available and limited police resources, the DPD isn't going to be able to follow up on this. It is less reasonable to be told that seeing a gun isn't a crime.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

What are they supposed to do start dragging guys in for a line up?

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YES!

A police lineup serves two purposes:

1) They may actually catch the perp.

2) It sends out a message to everybody else that this sh*t ain't gonna be tolerated anymore and the police are cleaning up the city. Word travels fast that the police are taking matters like this seriously when people are getting dragged in for a lineup. This becomes a deterrence for any future wannabe robbers.

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

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Originally Posted by Django

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

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Right on.
I think it's important that this moment especially is being well-documented in Detroit. Some dismiss this as "more ruin porn" and that may be the case in some instances, but Detroit is rapidly evolving and its current condition is not static.
I applaud your and NT's efforts in detailing this unique metropolis.
Also, I'd like to highlight NT's sympathy for his would-be attackers. Such compassion is extremely rare, especially mere hours after a potentially life-threatening experience.
Bravo to you both.

Nothing like exciting commentary to accompany the photographs.

Vini, Vidi, Vici

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

YES!

A police lineup serves two purposes:

1) They may actually catch the perp.

2) It sends out a message to everybody else that this sh*t ain't gonna be tolerated anymore and the police are cleaning up the city. Word travels fast that the police are taking matters like this seriously when people are getting dragged in for a lineup. This becomes a deterrence for any future wannabe robbers.

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I would guess that you watch to much TV. Arrest people based on what? Again hoodie? Skin colour? From the OP Post they have nothing to go on. The point is they do have areas that need to be patrolled. Known bad guys with mug shots in the car that they should be looking for because the already have warrants for arrest with evidence etc... Radio calls that need to be answered. Detectives with huge case loads already aren't all that interested in taking on a his word vs. his word case when they have cases with actual evidence that need the work. Of course if anyone is the type that always knows exactly how a professional should do their job because they know everything this is all moot. I am always amazed in my career when I am called in to solve problems because some idiot called in a pro to do the work and then told him exactly how it needed to be done and when I call the pro he states "that's how they wanted it so I did it, it's not what I recommended or would have done myself" let the pros do there job that's why their pros.

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Originally Posted by Django

I was just in shock that four cop cars showed up while one unit took our info and description the other three just hung around chatting with each other until they said "okay, we have your information" The DPD showed up very quickly but not one took off to roam the area looking for two in hoodies with a gun. Night Timer does not know the area but I do very well for the last 14 years and that's why I encourage people to hire someone who does know an area like this if they want to photograph it. The areas in Detroit are constantly changing and archiving these changes I believe are important. Night Timer is not an imbedded reporter in the Gaza strip but is taking his chances documenting the change that is happening in Detroit and I have a lot of respect for that. I only wish I had taken more pics with my 35mm back in the 90s to compare it to todays sights. Night Timer has put a lot of time and money into coming here to Detroit to photograph and interview people from all over Detroit and he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it.

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Just curious, what is Django Tours "Plan B" in case Night Timer didn't or doesn't make it into your truck in time? What if the unthinkable happens, and he does get shot, what's the plan? "He's documenting the change", is he staying for the Packard Plant rehab? Detroit may not be the Gaza Strip, but the dangers are very real. Look @ the poor kid from the Nethearlands. Shot in face, unidentified body, lying tagged in the morgue. That certainly would dampen that cavalier spirit.

What is plan B? You give up the gear, if he gets shot or I get shot we wind up in the hospital or the morgue. What is the point of your questions. We don't all just sit at home and play it safe, some of us take chances in life. I follow my gut and do the best I can. Are we going to stop shooting the Packard? hell no.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Just curious, what is Django Tours "Plan B" in case Night Timer didn't or doesn't make it into your truck in time? What if the unthinkable happens, and he does get shot, what's the plan? "He's documenting the change", is he staying for the Packard Plant rehab? Detroit may not be the Gaza Strip, but the dangers are very real. Look @ the poor kid from the Nethearlands. Shot in face, unidentified body, lying tagged in the morgue. That certainly would dampen that cavalier spirit.

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You are asking a hypothetical question and drawing conclusions based on an answer that was not given; then you correlate a separate incident with little in common with the OP scenario.

i have known Django for awhile and he does not conduct his tours with anything close to a cavalier spirit. You seem to be blaming the victims in this scenario. By extension anyone living within the metroplex could be blamed if they become a crime victim. After all, if you are robbed while changing your car tire, you should have paid extra for run-flat tires and not had the hubris to drive on a public roadway. Everyone knows the roads here are terrible, so it's your own fault if you get robbed.

I am afraid the logical extension of your premise condemns us all to the callous disregard of our countrymen.

Moreover, the second guessing game has no winners. To posit a set of events that didn't happen can go on forever. What if the truck had stalled? What if the gunman stumbled and fell under the truck? What if Night Timer had swung his tripod and clocked the gunman? What if the Security Guard was there and got involved? What if an oncoming car sideswiped the truck ... on and on to no useful conclusion.

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Originally Posted by Django

What is plan B? You give up the gear, if he gets shot or I get shot we wind up in the hospital or the morgue. What is the point of your questions. We don't all just sit at home and play it safe, some of us take chances in life. I follow my gut and do the best I can. Are we going to stop shooting the Packard? hell no.

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My advice Django, Don't go out the ghettos of Detroit exploring abandon buildings alone or with anyone else without protection.

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Originally Posted by gnome

You are asking a hypothetical question and drawing conclusions based on an answer that was not given; then you correlate a separate incident with little in common with the OP scenario.

i have known Django for awhile and he does not conduct his tours with anything close to a cavalier spirit. You seem to be blaming the victims in this scenario. By extension anyone living within the metroplex could be blamed if they become a crime victim. After all, if you are robbed while changing your car tire, you should have paid extra for run-flat tires and not had the hubris to drive on a public roadway. Everyone knows the roads here are terrible, so it's your own fault if you get robbed.

I am afraid the logical extension of your premise condemns us all to the callous disregard of our countrymen.

Moreover, the second guessing game has no winners. To posit a set of events that didn't happen can go on forever. What if the truck had stalled? What if the gunman stumbled and fell under the truck? What if Night Timer had swung his tripod and clocked the gunman? What if the Security Guard was there and got involved? What if an oncoming car sideswiped the truck ... on and on to no useful conclusion.

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Thanx for explaining and for your opinion. To me your tire analogy comparison would be akin to "awww @#&$, I got a flat tire, hope I can change it and get out of here in one piece" to "you know what, dammit, I'm going to drive to the corner of Warren and Bewick, unarmed, and change my tire just to prove I can". When people post things like "As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot", and "he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it", a lot of questions pop up in my head.

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Originally Posted by Cliffy

I'm sure they were white youths LOL

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No, there were black males wearing Trayvon Martins out hustling in the ghetto hoods of Detroit looking for trouble. They have their piece and ready to rob, shoot and kill anyone who stands in their way. They are not afraid of the police, getting busted or going to prison for the rest of their lives. They want something that society is not giving to them and they will take something from any innocent victim at any cost. That's the way it is in Detroit.

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Originally Posted by Danny

My advice Django, Don't go out the ghettos of Detroit exploring abandon buildings alone or with anyone else without protection.

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The best suggestion yet.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Thanx for explaining and for your opinion. To me your tire analogy comparison would be akin to "awww @#&$, I got a flat tire, hope I can change it and get out of here in one piece" to "you know what, dammit, I'm going to drive to the corner of Warren and Bewick, unarmed, and change my tire just to prove I can". When people post things like "As the car edged forward, the youth was now beside the flatbed, with me lying in it. I could've easily been shot", and "he will not be scared off by a couple of punks, I respect that. He's here to do a job and he is going to do it", a lot of questions pop up in my head.

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I think I see where you are going with that, and if I do, I might not disagree; however, my previous comment was based on the general dislike for hypotheticals. We don't know what would have happened with Plan B because Plan A worked. While they might be fun things to play with, hypotheticals usually lead to conclusions not held in evidence.

For my pennies, Danny has it right, but Django makes an ok life for himself with giving tours. Through the years, folks have come from all over for tours he gives. Books have been written about those tours and they authors have come to this forum to laud Django for his efforts.

to my knowledge no one has ever been injured on one of his tours, no one robbed and no one disappointed.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

The best suggestion yet.

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Agreed,with a name like that I'd expect a Colt SAA at the least. Tool up Django

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

I would guess that you watch to much TV. Arrest people based on what? Again hoodie? Skin colour? From the OP Post they have nothing to go on. The point is they do have areas that need to be patrolled. Known bad guys with mug shots in the car that they should be looking for because the already have warrants for arrest with evidence etc... Radio calls that need to be answered. Detectives with huge case loads already aren't all that interested in taking on a his word vs. his word case when they have cases with actual evidence that need the work. Of course if anyone is the type that always knows exactly how a professional should do their job because they know everything this is all moot. I am always amazed in my career when I am called in to solve problems because some idiot called in a pro to do the work and then told him exactly how it needed to be done and when I call the pro he states "that's how they wanted it so I did it, it's not what I recommended or would have done myself" let the pros do there job that's why their pros.

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If a guy in a hoodie brandished a gun and did the same thing in the parking lot at Somerset Mall in Troy, I wonder if the police would say, f' it, I'm not writing up a report because this is not a crime or looking around the neighbourhood and rounding up suspects that match that general description. Seriously, do you think cops would do that elsewhere in metro??

If the cops are so busy, why did 4 patrol cars show up??

This is a serious matter. Suppose the perp that brandished the gun actually tried to pull the trigger, but his gun jammed or he forgot to take off the safety [[there are dumb robbers out there) there could have been a fatality. And because they didn't take him off the street, the next victim could very well be a fatality. But to you, someone brandishing a gun in an attempted robbery is not a crime.

On a separate but similar topic, maybe I'm too charitable, but I almost feel sorry for those "stick-up kids" yesterday; three young men in their 20s [[in the prime of their lives) living such a negative and desperate lifestyle. They wanted to do me harm, but I still feel for those poor, young men.[/QUOTE]

N-T, Man I hate to rain on your good karma vibe because I can hear you are speaking from the heart but don't for a minute feel sorry for these scum bags who traded in their "human being card" for a Glock... They place no value on your life and would leave you lying in a pool of your own blood for a five spot. Once you have been victimized your life is never the same, I was
carjacked and shot at 23 years ago on the eastside, I thought I was fairly street smart but dude got the drop on me just the same....ya got to know your environment

Had a similar instance where I watched a young man empty a gun at ground level [[what he was shooting at was behind a building from my view, but presumably at people since it was St. Patricks day and people were everywhere).

I called the cops, by the time they showed up all parties had fled and they weren't even interested in the 9mm luger shells on the ground. They didn't even document it. Most cities have "their finest" but DPD is "the worst".

Whenever I hear about crime statistics in Detroit "going down" I just shake my head.

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

If a guy in a hoodie brandished a gun and did the same thing in the parking lot at Somerset Mall in Troy, I wonder if the police would say, f' it, I'm not writing up a report because this is not a crime or looking around the neighbourhood and rounding up suspects that match that general description. Seriously, do you think cops would do that elsewhere in metro??

If the cops are so busy, why did 4 patrol cars show up??

This is a serious matter. Suppose the perp that brandished the gun actually tried to pull the trigger, but his gun jammed or he forgot to take off the safety [[there are dumb robbers out there) there could have been a fatality. And because they didn't take him off the street, the next victim could very well be a fatality. But to you, someone brandishing a gun in an attempted robbery is not a crime.

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4 patrol cars showed up because they wanted to catch a bad guy with a gun.
What description are you talking about? OP said "hoodies" was all they had. Here in America you can't just start "rounding up suspects" anywhere. Where is this Windsor you hail from? Old gangster movies? nazi Germany? Or some third world dictatorship?

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

4 patrol cars showed up because they wanted to catch a bad guy with a gun.

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Ya, they stopped what they were doing and showed up. So why didn't they finish what they started? Four patrol cars is enough resources to do it.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

What description are you talking about? OP said "hoodies" was all they had.

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Don't be ridiculous. There's a colour of the hoodie. There may be lettering on the hoodie. The person wearing the hoodie had a general height. There is a general weight. Was he wearing black jeans, blue jeans, track pants or shorts? Was his shoes white, red, black? There may be distinctive inflections in their voice. There's a difference between in the way a 15 year old and a 40 year old talk and move. There are a lot of factors that can narrow down the identification process. The OP said hoodie for expedience, but obviously there were other identifying factors. The PD is not gonna round up people wearing 10 different colours of hoodies.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Here in America you can't just start "rounding up suspects" anywhere. Where is this Windsor you hail from? Old gangster movies? nazi Germany? Or some third world dictatorship?

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Are you kidding me?! They do it all the time in other parts of America. Not too long ago, my dad was visiting Jacksonville Florida and stayed at a national franchise motel. After midnight, a few masked men kicked the door in, armed with shotguns, robbed him and my step mom and took off. He called the police. The police rounded up suspects who matched the general description, he identified them, and they were charged. They do it all over the country. They just are not doing it here.

What set my alarm off was that they were wearing hoodies on a a hot summer day with hoods up. One was grey the other a darker color. Who the hell weares a sweat shirt on a 90 degree day. They were both about 5'6" both slim running at us with a gun, that's about all I noticed. The police seemed to be taking scribbled notes my Aussie friend said, seemingly to appease us as if he was doing something. Honestly even if the four cop cars did take off to scope out the few blocks where this happened on Concord the hoodies and guns were dumped and they most likely split up knowing full well we called the police on them so I doubt anything would have come up but it seems like they could have spared three of the four cars to check out the area but they all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

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Originally Posted by Django

What set my alarm off was that they were wearing hoodies on a a hot summer day with hoods up. One was grey the other a darker color. Who the hell weares a sweat shirt on a 90 degree day. They were both about 5'6" both slim running at us with a gun, that's about all I noticed. The police seemed to be taking scribbled notes my Aussie friend said, seemingly to appease us as if he was doing something. Honestly even if the four cop cars did take off to scope out the few blocks where this happened on Concord the hoodies and guns were dumped and they most likely split up knowing full well we called the police on them so I doubt anything would have come up but it seems like they could have spared three of the four cars to check out the area but they all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

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Your spider sense was dead on. People can post all the pseudo-racist, neo-nazi, Dr. Feelgood DPD crap they want on here. Street sense will tell you somethings up, and start making exit plans NOW. My only issue is you really need to start thinking about some kind of back-up plan. These guy's are targeting "spelunking" and photography people as victims. Things aren't as they were 15 years ago, but you know that. Too many stories floating around about the not-so-fortunates. You don't want to start your own thread about your demise.

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Originally Posted by Django

but they, [[cops), all just hung out on Concord and E Grand Blvd until we left, not sure what they did after that.

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There's saftey in numbers...

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Originally Posted by Danny

You too were at the wrong place and wrong time. Almost got killed by black males wearing hoodies. That would be a lesson to you both. Don't scope out any abandon buildings in the ghetto hoods in Detroit without some protection. I learn that while I did some snooping at some dangerous and abandon buildings in Detroit long ago. I have my piece with and my Street Prophets with me.

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If you go into abandoned buildings with a gun, you could be charged with carrying a firearm while in the commission of a crime. Not a good idea.

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

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Originally Posted by neavling

If you go into abandoned buildings with a gun, you could be charged with carrying a firearm while in the commission of a crime. Not a good idea.

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As long as you have a firearm that is totally yours with a license [[not concealled) for protection. Please see second amendment of the Bill of Rights.

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Originally Posted by Django

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

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Danny, I'm not going to argue with you about the Second Amendment. I'm just telling you it is a crime to be in the possession of a firearm [[legally or not) while committing a crime.

Depends on which crime it is.

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

Ya, they stopped what they were doing and showed up. So why didn't they finish what they started? Four patrol cars is enough resources to do it.



Don't be ridiculous. There's a colour of the hoodie. There may be lettering on the hoodie. The person wearing the hoodie had a general height. There is a general weight. Was he wearing black jeans, blue jeans, track pants or shorts? Was his shoes white, red, black? There may be distinctive inflections in their voice. There's a difference between in the way a 15 year old and a 40 year old talk and move. There are a lot of factors that can narrow down the identification process. The OP said hoodie for expedience, but obviously there were other identifying factors. The PD is not gonna round up people wearing 10 different colours of hoodies.



Are you kidding me?! They do it all the time in other parts of America. Not too long ago, my dad was visiting Jacksonville Florida and stayed at a national franchise motel. After midnight, a few masked men kicked the door in, armed with shotguns, robbed him and my step mom and took off. He called the police. The police rounded up suspects who matched the general description, he identified them, and they were charged. They do it all over the country. They just are not doing it here.

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Me ridiculous? Let's look at what you are saying, the right criminals were in the line up for the crime where your dad was a victim. According to you the local PD just "rounded up suspects" for a line up. Somehow I don't think we are getting all the facts of what led police to the guilty criminals.

It really doesn't matter what you or I think about it but people have rights in the USA and if any PD thinks they can ignore or bend those rules they will pay a heavy price. It is NOT 1958 anymore. Have you ever heard of Jeffery Fieger? The only reason he is famous is because his firm made him very wealthy taking hundreds of millions [[have heard over a billion) of dollars over the years out of Detroit's coffers by litigating mistakes and failures of the DPD. It is no longer fiscally possible for the DPD to not be as professional of a police force as they can make themselves. Why do you think Kevyn Orr still has complete control of the DPD even though he has returned and or shared power of all other city services with Mayor Duggan? The city is bankrup. In order get new patrol vehicles the DPD had to rely on the generosity of others. The DPD worked 12hr shifts for years, had their personnel cut by almost a third in a decade. Quit blaming crime on the guys that are fighting it on the front lines with their lives.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Quit blaming crime on the guys that are fighting it on the front lines with their lives.

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You mean I can actually start blaming the actual criminal? WOW! As nothing but a fly on the wall, I like this.

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Originally Posted by FlyOnTheWall

You mean I can actually start blaming the actual criminal? WOW! As nothing but a fly on the wall, I like this.

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Yes, yes, yes, please do! Can you leave mothers and young children out of it though?

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Yes, yes, yes, please do! Can you leave mothers and young children out of it though?

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I never blame young children, they are helpless, but then again the mothers..... That depends. It depends on what I see from the wall. Are the mothers druggies, welfare queens, or some one that is really trying to to raise a viable family?

I always support the ones that are trying such as Ben Carson's mother. I respect her. A LOT! It is the other ones....

Gotcha, if the kid wins a Presidential medal of freedom than alls good. Did Walter win a Presidential medal of freedom into your heart?

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Gotcha, if the kid wins a Presidential medal of freedom than alls good. Did Walter win a Presidential medal of freedom into your heart?

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The kids have to win nothing..... The mothers should at least try. The kids have no choice, the mothers do.... Can't you see that?

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Originally Posted by Django

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

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Good place for a stick up.

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Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit

Quit blaming crime on the guys that are fighting it on the front lines with their lives.

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Whoa, you're putting words in my mouth now. Reread my earlier posts. I'm not blaming the front lines. I respect them for job they do and they do their job. As I said earlier, those are commands coming from higher up not to pick up suspects to manipulate the crime rates to make them look lower than they actually are and the clearance rates higher than they actually are. Commands from people like the Police Chief, the Mayor and Kevin Orr.

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Originally Posted by Django

Lets just get something straight, I will not carry a gun, I own long guns for hunting back when I was young but never a handgun. Even if I could get a permit I wouldn't carry. We did not enter any building. This all happened on Concord a block North of East Grand Blvd in front of the old DHS building.

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I don't really think it matters in which part of Detroit this happened, inside a building or not, you represent a quick score to a professional thief [[carrying a gun makes him a professional) I would say if you are going to be shooting film in sketchy locations throughout the city then having a firearm to protect your life might be a "life extending" move...screw the equipment that can be replaced. But along with CCW are the psychological aspects of taking another life and all the training required to be able to successfully draw and fire a weapon in a one on one situation, but based on your post it seems like your just willing to live with the risk of losing your life...Its a choice but hey this coulda been a one time bad deal and won't happen again for another 5 or more years.

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Originally Posted by davewindsor

Are you kidding me?! They do it all the time in other parts of America. Not too long ago, my dad was visiting Jacksonville Florida and stayed at a national franchise motel. After midnight, a few masked men kicked the door in, armed with shotguns, robbed him and my step mom and took off. He called the police. The police rounded up suspects who matched the general description, he identified them, and they were charged. They do it all over the country. They just are not doing it here.

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OK, I'll bite. How did he identify masked people in a lineup? Not that people are good at identifying people in lineups even if they see their faces.

I've always wanted a mask identical to my own face — just to mess with people's heads.

Would it be worthwhile for DPD to set up a sting operation in this area? Just asking.

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Originally Posted by mwilbert

OK, I'll bite. How did he identify masked people in a lineup? Not that people are good at identifying people in lineups even if they see their faces.

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I already explained it. Are you telling me that if I wanted to shoot someone or rob a bank or a person, all I have to do is wear a mask while doing it and I'll never be convicted of a crime because the victims and witnesses never saw my face because of the mask?? Do you really want to go on record saying something so childish?

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Originally Posted by Jimaz

I've always wanted a mask identical to my own face — just to mess with people's heads....

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OMG. You can do that.

ThatsMyFace.com

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

I don't really think it matters in which part of Detroit this happened, inside a building or not, you represent a quick score to a professional thief [[carrying a gun makes him a professional) I would say if you are going to be shooting film in sketchy locations throughout the city then having a firearm to protect your life might be a "life extending" move...screw the equipment that can be replaced. But along with CCW are the psychological aspects of taking another life and all the training required to be able to successfully draw and fire a weapon in a one on one situation, but based on your post it seems like your just willing to live with the risk of losing your life...Its a choice but hey this coulda been a one time bad deal and won't happen again for another 5 or more years.

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You are right East Side Cat, it doesnt matter where you are. These I can confidently say were not pros but just opportunistic kids with a gun. They will no doubt go to prison a few times in their life and learn how to become a professional criminal. Having a gun does not make you a pro and if they were pros they would have gotten the gear without a shot fired and I thank the Lord for not having a shot fired. They were big and shiny wearing Ding Dongs wearing hoodies in 90 degree weather.
No I do not think I could live a sane free life if I had taken a life with a gun. I do not feel buying a handgun will be the answer to violence. I truly laugh that people think that if everybody had a gun there would be less violence in the country. I will not carry a gun and I will take my chances. I have faith that people are generally good at heart and do not want to shoot a stranger. In this instance at the Packard I made a split second decision to get the fuck out of there and I decided to step on the gas and it goes through my mind ever since that I may have gotten Aussie shot or killed all in the name of a few thousand dollars in photo equipment. I just do not feel more guns is the answer.

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Originally Posted by Django

You are right East Side Cat, it doesnt matter where you are. These I can confidently say were not pros but just opportunistic kids with a gun. They will no doubt go to prison a few times in their life and learn how to become a professional criminal. Having a gun does not make you a pro and if they were pros they would have gotten the gear without a shot fired and I thank the Lord for not having a shot fired. They were big and shiny wearing Ding Dongs wearing hoodies in 90 degree weather.
No I do not think I could live a sane free life if I had taken a life with a gun. I do not feel buying a handgun will be the answer to violence. I truly laugh that people think that if everybody had a gun there would be less violence in the country. I will not carry a gun and I will take my chances. I have faith that people are generally good at heart and do not want to shoot a stranger. In this instance at the Packard I made a split second decision to get the fuck out of there and I decided to step on the gas and it goes through my mind ever since that I may have gotten Aussie shot or killed all in the name of a few thousand dollars in photo equipment. I just do not feel more guns is the answer.

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Brother I agree with everything ya said and when I said "pros" I was pointing out that they had made a conscience decision to take their crime gig to the armed level [[which means more time in the pokey). Also speaking from experience it can turn ugly and violent in a Nano second. When I was carjacked back in '92 I was in familiar and "relatively" safe surroundings parallel parked in front of my house in GPP on Maryland and St Paul [[a few hundred feet from Detroit) I was blocked in kinda tight by other cars front and back. like I said in a earlier post I was a born and raised street smart Detroiter who initially thought I was just being pan handled but when faced with the words "check it in " I understood differently and chose to quickly remove myself from the situation and in doing so Brother man put a round in the back of my car...next morning the detective said he was aiming for my head...I owned a pistol at the time but was not a permitted CCW.... had I pulled a gun it likely would've had the same outcome, he had the drop on me. I chose to carry my weapon starting the next day as I also worked in some less than desirable parts of Detroit like Gratiot & 94 and city airport area not to mention getting shot at kinda shook me up, but I honestly never felt easy about having the protection of a gun knowing if it came down to it I'd then have to use it and knew I'd end up in a worse situation not having the carry permit. Good luck out there and keep yer head on a swivel.

A simple solution: stay the hell out of areas like the one around the Packard plant. There are plenty of websites one can visit to see pictures of the place. Does this chap from Australia think he is gong to take some award winning, never before seen, picture and become famous?

Everybody knows that neighborhoods like that are killing fields. It is best not to venture into them. Especially when you're carrying expensive equipment and you obviously look like you don't belong there.

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Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

A simple solution: stay the hell out of areas like the one around the Packard plant. There are plenty of websites one can visit to see pictures of the place. Does this chap from Australia think he is gong to take some award winning, never before seen, picture and become famous?

Everybody knows that neighborhoods like that are killing fields. It is best not to venture into them. Especially when you're carrying expensive equipment and you obviously look like you don't belong there.

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Hell I'm wondering if the cops coulda run Django and Night timer
downtown for creating an attractive nuisance.

You know them kid's curiosity got the best of them seeing perishable and nonperishable low hanging fruit, so to say.

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Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

Hell I'm wondering if the cops coulda run Django and Night timer
downtown for creating an attractive nuisance.

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Great idea in theory, but it has no basis in law.

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Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

Great idea in theory, but it has no basis in law.

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You expect Cops to know the law? http://www.hvacproforums.com/styles/...ilies/wink.png

They could really make you wish you hadn't did what you did.

Tell it to the judge.

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Originally Posted by SyGolden48236

A simple solution: stay the hell out of areas like the one around the Packard plant. There are plenty of websites one can visit to see pictures of the place. Does this chap from Australia think he is gong to take some award winning, never before seen, picture and become famous?

Everybody knows that neighborhoods like that are killing fields. It is best not to venture into them. Especially when you're carrying expensive equipment and you obviously look like you don't belong there.

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Because that would be a cowards response. Night Timer is a complete pro dedicated to his job working for the Associated Press who takes small risks like photographing Detroit. There are a lot of other journalists taking much bigger risks in the Middle East and various other countries throughout time who made huge impacts on the worlds conscious with just a single picture. All you have to do is look at the covers of LIFE magazine or National Geographic over the years to see what a photojournalist is trying to convey and what a single image can do to the collective concious. Night Timer is a complete professional, the favorite of all the journalists Ive shown Detroit. I've worked for some wonderful journalists too, National Geographic, other AP Press photographers as well as the BBC. None has taken their job so seriously as Night Timer. He is willing to get in the dirt and I try my best to keep him clean. The city is constantly changing over the years and some are slow to notice that. I find it very important to document as much history as possible through the years even if it is just a crumbling building shot. Journalists chose there profession full well knowing what they are getting into and risks are taken. Some people rather work behind a desk filling out forms or whatever but for me I bow to the risk taker.

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Originally Posted by Django

Because that would be a cowards response. Night Timer is a complete pro dedicated to his job working for the Associated Press who takes small risks like photographing Detroit. There are a lot of other journalists taking much bigger risks in the Middle East and various other countries throughout time who made huge impacts on the worlds conscious with just a single picture. All you have to do is look at the covers of LIFE magazine or National Geographic over the years to see what a photojournalist is trying to convey and what a single image can do to the collective concious. Night Timer is a complete professional, the favorite of all the journalists Ive shown Detroit. I've worked for some wonderful journalists too, National Geographic, other AP Press photographers as well as the BBC. None has taken their job so seriously as Night Timer. He is willing to get in the dirt and I try my best to keep him clean. The city is constantly changing over the years and some are slow to notice that. I find it very important to document as much history as possible through the years even if it is just a crumbling building shot. Journalists chose there profession full well knowing what they are getting into and risks are taken. Some people rather work behind a desk filling out forms or whatever but for me I bow to the risk taker.

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I do the same too, with my clients from my film company. But we carry protection by any means necessary. Next time you want to take your clients on the grand tour of the ghetto hoods in Detroit, carry your protection from security squads to having a piece. Ignorant folks wearing Trayvon Martins, don't give a _____ about you! They want to money, clothes and anything that you have. I have been those situation when I been robbed three times in the ghetto even at gun point. Give them what you want and by their judgement call the robber will decide to kill or spare you. This is way the of life in the poor ghetto hoods in Detroit and you know better.

Just like in the Bible. Jesus' disciples notice his robe was missing and thief took it while they sleeping in the Judean wilderness. One of the disciples said 'The thief took my robe.' Jesus said, 'Then you should go and find that thief and give him your cloak.'

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Originally Posted by Django

Because that would be a cowards response. Night Timer is a complete pro dedicated to his job working for the Associated Press who takes small risks like photographing Detroit. There are a lot of other journalists taking much bigger risks in the Middle East and various other countries throughout time who made huge impacts on the worlds conscious with just a single picture. All you have to do is look at the covers of LIFE magazine or National Geographic over the years to see what a photojournalist is trying to convey and what a single image can do to the collective concious. Night Timer is a complete professional, the favorite of all the journalists Ive shown Detroit. I've worked for some wonderful journalists too, National Geographic, other AP Press photographers as well as the BBC. None has taken their job so seriously as Night Timer. He is willing to get in the dirt and I try my best to keep him clean. The city is constantly changing over the years and some are slow to notice that. I find it very important to document as much history as possible through the years even if it is just a crumbling building shot. Journalists chose there profession full well knowing what they are getting into and risks are taken. Some people rather work behind a desk filling out forms or whatever but for me I bow to the risk taker.

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Give me a break with this pseudo-heroic nonsense you keep posting already, will you? Now you're comparing shooting ruin-porn to the men and women in the trenches fighting overseas? You're making money plain and simple. Good for you. You're also putting yourself and every one with you @ risk by refusing to pony up for security. @ least the pro photogs overseas have a security detail assigned to them. They're not wandering around enemy territory aimlessly.

Even the television news reporters are accompanied by armed security when they do stories in the killing field areas of the city.

And the embedded reporters working in the war zones overseas are protected by the best security in the world- the U.S. Military. Reporters and photographers don't wander indiscriminately around Kandahar and other such places.

In a small way I feel that people who go exploring in the killing fields of the city are no different than the ice fishermen who go out on unsafe ice in the winter and endanger not only their own lives but the first responders' lives as well when the ice flow breaks way and they get set adrift.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Give me a break with this pseudo-heroic nonsense you keep posting already, will you? Now you're comparing shooting ruin-porn to the men and women in the trenches fighting overseas? You're making money plain and simple. Good for you. You're also putting yourself and every one with you @ risk by refusing to pony up for security. @ least the pro photogs overseas have a security detail assigned to them. They're not wandering around enemy territory aimlessly.

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Not to take sides, but we would call them kind of excursions around the D when I was living there Manure Tours.

Usually we would be drinkin PBR of course and we must of knew what we were doing causing we never got busted for Trespissing or jacked by the cops or thugs.

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Originally Posted by Dan Wesson

Not to take sides, but we would call them kind of excursions around the D when I was living there Manure Tours.

Usually we would be drinkin PBR of course and we must of knew what we were doing causing we never got busted for Trespissing or jacked by the cops or thugs.

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Those were different times. We all did stupid stuff. [[and if you didn't, it's high time you did) The worst that happened was a fist fight. It's a totally different mind-set these days. Interfaces are more permanent.
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Honky do you even read what I write before you respond. I spoke of Night Timer taking a small in comparison risk of taking pics in Detroit to as the likes of Magnum Photographers. I don't compare myself to anyone in the trenches of war. Speaking on being armed now we are getting into a new area in this convo of actually hiring a security guard who is armed. The discussion started out that some of you thought I should be armed which I clearly don't want. I can see the smarts in hiring a for real bodyguard and not just Django the dude from Dyes who gives tours. Im not any kind of martial arts expert or permit carrying gun owner Im just making a few bucks showing some people around the Detroit I know and am familiar with. My Aussie friend does not have the means to hire a security force as hes already paying me. I actually cringe at the thought of an overseas journalist asking me for help and me having to say "well you can hire me but you really should hire armed security for our protection" Im just not going to live that way. Night Timer knows of the dangers and we went over some simple rules when we go out and shoot.