Lost Fisher Mansion, anyone recogonize it?

I'm doing a sizable research project on the World of Architectural Antiques, a former architectural museum & store in Troy, MI built by Joseph A Bianco in 1985. The American Polish Cultural Center purchased the building in 1989 with many architectural pieces from former mansions & hotels still remaining.

I was told by the builders son [[AJ Damman Co) that the exterior stone is from "one of the Fisher houses." So far I think I can rule out the Boston-Edison district houses & also the Palmer Park houses. From the old photos of the Grayhaven Fisher houses I found I don't see any stone work.

Attached is a picture of the stone on the building. Anyone know of a Fisher house that had such work? My main suspect now is maybe a Grosse Ile home, though I haven't found any photos yet [[and yes, those limestone inserts in the stone are from the Rose Terrace, Grosse Pointe!)Attachment 23028

Its definitely not from the Fisher mansion that was at the foot of Lenox across from the Handicap center, I made many a trip to the property as a teenager when it sat empty in the very early 80's [[a victim of imminent domain as was the Koerber and Garwood mansions) . Ice skating in the boathouse was a blast!

After a double take, it just might be from the Garwood Mansion

That must have been fun! Yeah, definitely not from the Charles Tudor style on Lenox. This photo I found claims it burned in 1980. I think William's house is the one next door you can see in the far right corner. Is that the boat house you skated in?

I thought the same thing about the Garwood after looking at some photos of the stone, so I asked the builder again today & he said Fisher house.....though it was 30 years ago & his father was running the company at the time. It's possible he could be mistaken. I'll have to compare the photo's again when I get home.

I'm thinking it would have had to be something that went down between 1971-ish & 1985 [[Joe Bianco's collecting years before building the place). Also leaning more towards the mid 80's cause I can't see anyone storing that much stone for a long period lol

I think that may be the ruins of the Charles Fisher mansion which was on the canal, opposite the Gar Wood mansion.

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/19639.jpg

The nearby Lawrence Fisher mansion on Lenox is still very much standing, and is in use by the Hare Krishna movement.

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/6790/19646.jpg

Neither looks like a candidate for your stone. However, the Gar Wood mansion, seen in the background here, certainly does.

http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/5/125033.jpg

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

I think the caption on that photo is in error. I believe that's the ruins of Grayhaven, the Gar Wood mansion.

The nearby Lawrence Fisher mansion on Lenox is still very much standing, and is in use by the Hare Krishna movement.

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The Fishers bought the whole strip on Lenox. Charles & William built on the far east, both of which are long gone, & Lawrence on the west, yes, still standing. I'll post the pics when I get home :)

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Originally Posted by YourCorner

The Fishers bought the whole strip on Lenox. Charles & William built on the far east, both of which are long gone, & Lawrence on the west, yes, still standing. I'll post the pics when I get home :)

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You're correct. Upon further research, I was mistaken. Post above has been corrected.

No worries & thanks for replying EastsideAl =) How'd you find that so fast?!? I think it took me two days to figure out where Charles & Williams mansions were in Grayhaven lol. Here's a pic of Williams, but it looks like it's in construction/unfinished, don't you think?

Is that the boathouse you skated in EASTSIDE CAT?

It does look a lot like the Garwood, but the Garwood's stone is much more staggered. The fire was in July 1976, which begs the question, how long would the stone have laid around after that?

APCC Stone & Garwood stone side by side....hmmmmm....

Fun stuff. And there happens to be a 'little' DetroitYES thread on the Garwood.

I have to say that when I first looked at that picture, the stonework really reminded me of the Garwood. No way I could verify that, but it just jumped out at me.Attachment 23039Photo by John Collier

There was a phenomenal amount of stone there.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Fun stuff. And there happens to be a 'little' DetroitYES thread on the Garwood.

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Lowell, some excerpts from that 'little' thread may have led me to posting on this forum for help ;) I will admit though, I haven't read it all lol

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Originally Posted by old guy

I have to say that when I first looked at that picture, the stonework really reminded me of the Garwood. No way I could verify that, but it just jumped out at me...

There was a phenomenal amount of stone there.

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Once I discovered Garwood I thought so too old guy. Thanks for the even better close up pic! =)

It seems like the stone work is too staggered compared to the APCC...though I suppose it would have possible to just pick out more of the same rectangular shape. There is A LOT of stone on the APCC.

I still would like to find some photos of the Fisher's Grosse Ile mansions. Mike Damman has been a great source so far & I wouldn't want to discredit him with out looking at the Grosse Ile homes. Any ideas on those?

Looks like I have some reading to do on that Garwood thread! lol

I found a Grosse Ile one! It's located at 19013 Parke Ln. If you view the slide show it says:

"The 1928 pool room is the only original structure from the home of a Fisher brother."

Definitely a possibility, I see stone work thru the window on the left!
Attachment 23042
Photo Credit: David Clements

The pool house
Attachment 23043
Photo Credit: David Clements

Thou there is also a picture of a 1950's addition to the pool house, which looks like where most of the stone is located. Maybe they tried to match the original stone...or maybe I really just want this one to be it lol

It would be a little out of my time line according to some real estate information that claims the original house was built in the 1920's & the house that's there today was built in 1960, renovated in 2001.

Fisher House Grosse Ile link:
http://search.reel-scout.com/location_detail.aspx?id=014-10006909

Another Great Thread on DetroitYes!!!..Boy at first sight it really does look like the Gar Wood Stone...Agree with Old Guy!!!..Very Intresting....Whaler

Thanks Whaler! Does anyone know how long the stone at Garwood laid around there or if anyone salvaged it? I tried to read thru the Garwood Mansion thread, but found it a little hard to follow & many of the pics & links don't show =[[

In other news, I found another set of photos of the Balmoral Fisher Mansion & some details at the APCC look very similar.

Attachment 23040
This balustrade looks the same shape & size of those on top of the sign wall at the APCC.

Attachment 23041
The balustrade on the APCC sign wall, rear view.

I've been trying to find houses that had this same type of stone rail. Most have the more French looking one that is much fatter at the bottom. Maybe it was salvaged from some renovations or from a home built by the same architect?

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Originally Posted by YourCorner

In other news, I found another set of photos of the Balmoral Fisher Mansion & some details at the APCC look very similar.

This balustrade looks the same shape & size of those on top of the sign wall at the APCC.

I've been trying to find houses that had this same type of stone rail. Most have the more French looking one that is much fatter at the bottom. Maybe it was salvaged from some renovations or from a home built by the same architect?

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Of course the balustrade at the Balmoral Fisher mansion is still in place.

Attachment 23044

You can't see anything like it in this picture, but perhaps some of these parts are from the Fisher mansion that burned down in 1994, which was nearby in Palmer Woods on Wellesley.

http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...y=1;view=image

Still in place, yes, but maybe a renovation or the same architect on a different property.

I wish there were more pictures of the Wm. Fisher estate in Palmer Woods :/ Unless there was some major renovations going on there before 1985, it wouldn't fit the timeline when the World of Architectural Antiques / Cultural Center building went into construction.

I'm still poking at the Grosse Ile homes [[I edited that post with pics if you didn't see above). Too bad Wayne County has poor online property records. I probably will end going thru endless Newspaper Archives =O lol

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Originally Posted by YourCorner

Still in place, yes, but maybe a renovation or the same architect on a different property.

I wish there were more pictures of the Wm. Fisher estate in Palmer Woods :/ Unless there was some major renovations going on there before 1985, it wouldn't fit the timeline when the World of Architectural Antiques / Cultural Center building went into construction.

I'm still poking at the Grosse Ile homes [[I edited that post with pics if you didn't see above). Too bad Wayne County has poor online property records. I probably will end going thru endless Newspaper Archives =O lol

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There are a number of articles regarding the burned William Fisher mansion in Palmer Woods. We actually had numerous threads on this site about it over the past 12 or 13 years. You can also find various news articles about it at the Burton Collection. I had some photos of the front facade of the home. However, the Wm Fisher home was made of red brick...they called it the "clipper ship" mansion.

Thanks Patrick =) I found a better photo of the front
Attachment 23058

Historic Images - 1991
But, unless some of that railing was taken from it before or around 1985, it doesn't fit the time line either.

My Father just told me this weekend that Joe Bianco had the stone stored behind Proto-Plastics for about a year before he built the World of Architectural Antiques. The site Plan Review from the City of Troy was November 1984, so it probably had to come from something that went down in 1983-1984.

Anyone know anything about the Grosse Ile Mansions? I emailed their Historical Society, but haven't heard back yet. What about William's home on Grayhaven? The pictures I've found look like it's still under construction & just show the boat house & lot.

You can only see a portion of it here in the Charles home fire photo.

Attachment 23059

Does that look like stone to anyone????

So, I took a drive today to the area frequently quoted as the location of the Fisher mansions "at the North end of Parke Ln" on Grosse Ile.

The known Fisher mansion location, that only has the pool house original structure, has quite a bit of stone work around the outside of the grounds.

Attachment 23062

Here, again, is the Cultural Center in Troy

Attachment 23063

Any thoughts??? There were also some other areas along the North end of Parke Ln that had pieces of stone walls that looked similar.

Well, it looks like all the research & stalking of the Fisher mansions was for not [[though enjoyable). I've acquired an old brochure of The World of Architectural Antiques, which lists the origins of some of the architectural pieces installed in the APCC.

The stone actually came from the "Dodge & Weber Mansions - Grosse Pointe"

I was just going to post a picture, but my scan is 42MB! lol From an old Grosse Pointe News article, the Weber Mansion was located around Lake Shore & Provencal & torn down sometime in 1984 for the Windemere Place development.

Anyone familiar with it?

I haven't done that much poking around yet & I'll reduce the size of the photos to post.

Sorry I got into this tread so late. Joe Bianco was well known in the collector car world and often invited car groups out to his home. He always talked about how he bought architectural pieces, stonework, etc. from Rose Terrace, the Dodge mansion in GP.

No worries Packman41. The Rose Terrace pieces of the building are easy to spot, but do you know anything else about any of the other pieces in the old World of Architectural Antiques, Proto-Plastics or his home???

Here are the scan photos of the brochure =)

[IMG]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3760/...c031b15e9f.jpgWorld of Architectural Antiques PG1 by yourcorner75, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3805/...ae745befca.jpgWorld of Architectural Antiques PG2 by yourcorner75, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3686/...580d04c8b7.jpgWorld of Architectural Antiques PG3 by yourcorner75, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3763/...ab5979eaab.jpgWorld of Architectural Antiques PG4 by yourcorner75, on Flickr[/IMG]

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Originally Posted by YourCorner

Well, it looks like all the research & stalking of the Fisher mansions was for not [[though enjoyable). I've acquired an old brochure of The World of Architectural Antiques, which lists the origins of some of the architectural pieces installed in the APCC.

The stone actually came from the "Dodge & Weber Mansions - Grosse Pointe"

I was just going to post a picture, but my scan is 42MB! lol From an old Grosse Pointe News article, the Weber Mansion was located around Lake Shore & Provencal & torn down sometime in 1984 for the Windemere Place development.

Anyone familiar with it?

I haven't done that much poking around yet & I'll reduce the size of the photos to post.

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Hello all, first post longtime lurker.

You are correct the stone and railing came from the Weber mansion that was on Lakeshore just south of Hank the Deuces mansion which is now the Windemere Pl. condos.

Went thru it many times as it was being dismantled. Talked with Mr Bianco many times. Home was not that impressive on the interior, had a rather large ballroom as I recall. House had a cold uninviting feel about it.
Original plans were found on the property including the landscape plan that showed extensive formal gardens that went to Kercheval.

Dont confuse this home with the Weber home on Weber Pl in GPS.

Fantastic gpwforever! Thank you for confirming that! =)

From what I gather, the Weber mansion was the home of Richard & Eloise Webber, correct? Which also begs the question, is it Weber or Webber? I've seen it in the Grosse Pointe news archives both ways.

Any idea where I can find a photo of it? Ooooo I want to ask you a million questions now! lol Was there an auction or did the developer handle the dismantling & selling off of the estate? Any thing else you could tell me about the home or Mr Bianco would be immensely helpful & greatly appreciated =)

If anyone wants to know where a sizable amount of the stone facade from Rose Terrace is, here's some photos of the old Proto-Plastics, formerly owned by Joe Bianco, now Classic Systems.

[IMG]https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2930/...5e01070c90.jpgOutside old Proto-Plastics by yourcorner75, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3742/...ae0ce9db07.jpgRose Terrace Facade at old Proto-Plastics by yourcorner75, on Flickr[/IMG]

And this one is just for you Packman41. A mural of classic cars & car makers inside the building. There's also a ton of painted parking lines from Joe & his son Frank's collection of Bianco Classic Cars.

[IMG]https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3777/...18a314b058.jpgAutomotive Mural at old Proto-Plastics by yourcorner75, on Flickr[/IMG]

A huge thanks to the current owner of Classic Systems who let me tour & photograph the plant. He even scanned the pages from the 2010 auction catalog!

I wish I was working on this project 2 years ago though. There were a lot of items that he tore out & threw out!!!! I would have been more than happy to take any of it off his hands.

I purchased this photograph before learning that the stone facade was not from one of the Fisher mansions, so I figured I'd share.

Here's a photo of the William Fisher mansion in Palmer Woods before it burned down in 1994 from the Detroit Free Press [[1991).

Attachment 23276

And also the back of the photo with the Free Press photo identification sheet & a article clipping.

Attachment 23277

Apparently, this Willie Ozier, Jr who claimed to have purchased the mansion was a shady character. I'll have to find the full article, cause this sounds interesting.

I'll only upload these pics to Flickr [[a more permanent place) if I have enough room after everything else, so if you want it, right-click & steal it. Be forewarned though, even though I purchased it, I don't have total "rights" to it. That still belongs to the Free Press.

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Originally Posted by YourCorner

Fantastic gpwforever! Thank you for confirming that! =)

From what I gather, the Weber mansion was the home of Richard & Eloise Webber, correct? Which also begs the question, is it Weber or Webber? I've seen it in the Grosse Pointe news archives both ways.

Any idea where I can find a photo of it? Ooooo I want to ask you a million questions now! lol Was there an auction or did the developer handle the dismantling & selling off of the estate? Any thing else you could tell me about the home or Mr Bianco would be immensely helpful & greatly appreciated =)

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It's Webber. Richard H. Webber was Joseph L. Hudson's nephew and became head of J.L. Hudson's upon his uncle's death. Before building the mansion in Grosse Pointe he lived in Indian Village at 1483 Iroquois between St. Paul and Agnes.

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Originally Posted by EastsideAl

It's Webber. Richard H. Webber was Joseph L. Hudson's nephew and became head of J.L. Hudson's upon his uncle's death. Before building the mansion in Grosse Pointe he lived in Indian Village at 1483 Iroquois between St. Paul and Agnes.

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Thanks for confirming that EastsideAl =) I wanted to be sure before pursuing a whole line of research down that avenue lol

How do you guys know all this stuff anyhow? Most of my previous projects have just been in the legal & financial area. People & places is a whole other world. Any tips for a newbie?

Here is a listing of the building of the home from the Dec. 30, 1922 issue of the American Architect.

Attachment 23288

I still can't find a picture of it though. It is mentioned in W. Hawkins Ferry's "The Buildings of Detroit". but there is no picture of it, only a picture of the nearby Backus mansion that was designed by the same architect. That architect was Robert O. Derrick, who also designed several other mansions in Grosse Pointe, and some other local landmarks like the Henry Ford Museum.

Attachment 28064Attachment 28063I thought this was a neat juxtaposition of images, I took the photos of the empty boat house/servants quarters back in 1981.Attachment 28061Attachment 28062

That's pretty spiffy! I never did find photos of the Webber mansion [[probably could if I made the trek over to the Grosse Pointe Historical Society/Library. They wanted money to email me anything lol).
Even though they weren't part of my research, I still love the Fisher Mansions. We went to the Estate Sale at the Palmer Woods one that went up for sale last year. Amazing!...gee, I should post pictures of that lol

Designed by Brown Preston & Derrick for Richard H. Webber. 437 Lakeshore Drive built 1923-1925 Grosse Pointe Farms, MI.

Demolished: 1984