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Pitiful. The Heidelberg Project homes were deliberately set by a firebug who don't give a care about Detroit's art.
In the last 2 nights I have heard an inordinate amount of fire trucks. My Mom told me some idiot has been setting fires in HP too.
Not a fan of the Heidelberg Project but arson is arson. Hopefully the police can find the person or persons involved and bring them to justice.
Wow! I was just there last month for a photo shoot with a group... goodness!
Also not a fan, but this sucks. photos:
http://detroitfunk.com/?p=9463
Here are several news links:
Heidelberg Project fire deemed suspicious; Guyton says work will continue
http://www.freep.com/article/2013050...n-fire-detroit
http://www.freep.com/article/2013050...e-burns-Guyton
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...#slide=2408371
I'm not cool with the arson, but the Heidelberg Project is just a bunch of organized garbage. I wouldn't miss it.
that 'organized garbage' brings in loads of tourists from around the world on a daily basis.
i heard on the radio bing said he would demolish 10,000 buildings in his first term. what number is he at now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmike76
That attitude is no better than the one that lets the rest of the city burn.
I think that you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't want one building in this city to burn down. Not one. I said that I'm not cool with the arson. All I'm saying is that I don't like the Heidelberg Project. I think it's ugly. I don't get the message. Art is subjective and I just don't get why a bunch of polkadots painted on an abandoned house draws people. As for Bing tearing down buildings, I'd be fine with Heidelberg being one of his targets. I'm allowed to disagree with people on the merits of Heidelberg and still have a good attitude about the city.
Heidelberg is analogous to Harcore Pawn to me. Sure, it draws a lot of viewers and has some popularity, but that show makes me ill because their bread and butter is to show angry, out-of-control customers that reflect badly on the city. It's bad press and it's embarrassing. In my mind, any abandoned buildings are bad press for the city. I'm not saying that that they should all be torn down [[pre-emptive strike against angry posts); some should definitely be rehabbed IMO [[MCS for example). But Heidelberg is a bunch of abandoned homes with no historical signficance. I don't want to hang my hat on decay when it comes to tourist destinations.
I love the Heidelberg, always supported Tyree. I love riding by and seeing cars and even busses lining the street with art lovers.
Am I crazy or are there a hell of a lot more haters on this site compared to 10 years ago? Dyes was so much more fun back then.
I don't think I'm being a hater, just offering my opinion. We can love the D but not love everything in it.
The thing that I found odd about the Heidleberg project was that it was basically sprawled across land Tyree did not own, and painted on city property. Meanwhile, he put up a sign saying that you could not stand on city property and take pictures. Does Tyree still have that stricture? Does anyone know?
Hopefully this is a step towards razing the entire block of moldy stuffed animals and piles of garbage.
The Heidelberg is not a pretty picture in and of itself, it calls attention to the many lives lived in the now disabled neighborhoods of Detroit. It aint michelangelesque, it is more like Chamberlain's sculptures of crushed car bodies and Rauschenberg's assemblages. It aint pretty but as I said, it says something about Detroit that vacant houses alone dont. It says look at me, I'm a house, some family lived here and you may hate me, but I'm not going to let your memory forget me that easily. Kerplunk.
The fact that Heidelberg exists shows a bit of sanity in Detroit exists outside the abandonment we deplore. Without a piece of art such as Tyree's expression allowed, the city would feel more desolate.
I'm confused. People support Heidelberg but get bent out of shape over taggers? Who actually owned the house?
I get pissed at tagging too, but Heidelberg shoots light on a part of the city that people would rather forget about. It's like taking out old pictures from a shoebox and feeling the pain of old memories, the melancholy of old age somewhat. It may be more useful than plain tagging, it certainly is less furtive and anonymous.
When Tyree Guyton starts plastering stuffed animals and shoes on every building that's either been abandoned or up for sale in the City, then we'll have a fair comparison. I hope this ends some of your confusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
So we're each allotted a block that we can tag? Got it.
Except it isn't "we're", it's just the same old dozen guys plastering their names all over PRIVATE property, all over the City. So I guess you don't "got it".Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
So does the artist own the property or not? if he doesn't, then he's no different than the taggers. What message is the city sending if they allow this project to stay, allow tagging in the Dequindre cut, but then bust taggers everywhere else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Obviously the wrong one to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
So you're not going to answer my basic question. I think I got my answer.
tyree never owned the property as far as i can tell.
Seriously, you're on the damn internet. Google is your friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/1998/08/guy-a20.html
It was a rhetorical question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandman
you piss and moan just for the sake of pissing and moaning. he's no different than taggers? like his art or not, he took blighted properties and tried to make something interesting and beautiful out of it. he then started art and education programs to help out the city's youth. a lot of taggers doing that? is tyree out there marking up occupied buildings or writing his name repeatedly around town for the fun of it? no clue whatsoever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
also, just so you are aware, many of the paintings in the cut were commissioned, not the work of vandals. the murals in the dequindre cut arent causing graffiti all over the city and unlike you most people know the difference between the two.
I always liked the Heidelberg project, but I didn't like it when Tyree banned picture taking.
I know it is not the most popular opinion here which is why I held back from saying it for so long but good riddance. I know it has brought in some people to look at it but it is an eyesore. It is nothing more than stacked trash, polka dots painted on abandoned houses, and water logged stuffed animals stapled to various surfaces. There is absolutely no redeeming qualities to the Heidelberg Project. I actually question the sanity and intelligence of the people who like it. Sorry that is just the way I feel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
I know where you are coming from on this and you make sense like others who dismiss the project per se. It is not an embellishment or a rehab or a gentrifying gesture. But think about it not being there for a moment, just imagine having the 80 or so thousand properties left vacant and charred on the vast city grid without a single strong statement about the distress.
I dont like interpreting other artists' work, but I think that the gesture is important, it is not ruin porn to my mind.
One sculptor who died too young in the seventies was Gordon Matta Clark. Thsi guy's work was really powerful and engaging. It also was done with houses slated for demo.
I've taken lots of pictures there. When did he do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBeall
What such prohibition? I was there less than two months ago and observed a yellow school buses of high school teens snapping away from two different school districts - one being a DPS school. For the 'purpose' of learning photography with their instructor.
Tyree was there was there very friendly. I took a few photos the same day...
Over the past 25 years I have worked with people from all over the world and they have always taken more pictures and had a bigger smile at the Heidelberg project then at the DIA and to me that speaks volumes.
I really don't get the appeal. It's like Bozo the Clown meets hoarders.
If you keep whining looking for an answer, it's no longer a rhetorical question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
I don't really mind the Heidelberg Project. In fact, I used to love it, but isn't it getting a bit tired and worn out? I mean, the dude has been hanging up stuffed animals and throwing shoes around for 30 freaking years now. Is he really an artist, or is he doing it for the publicity? Most artists evolve and grow in their styles and techniques. Or I guess you could just put polka dots everywhere for half a century.
The Europeans I worked with I also traveled to some of their countries and they showed me there museums and they put the DIA to shame IMO. They had never seen anything like the Heidelberg project and they were totaly fascinated by it
I was talking to another poster and trying to make a point that the artist doesn't own the property since the other poster seems to evade that aspect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandman
I get it. And yes, everyone knows he doesn't. And yes, again, he used to go putting paint dots all over town on abandoned property. Known history.
I stop by the Heidelberg on a regular basis and for many years, I'm constantly watching it evolve. You dont need a brush and paint or a chunk of clay to create something beautiful. Funny thing is the haters just bring more interest to the whole story. Most likely the Heidelberg wouldnt be a worldwide attraction if were not for people like these and those on city council who had much of it torn down years ago therefore getting it the great press it deserves. I had much the same situation while stacking rocks on Belle Isle. If it were not for three the women who made a big stink about them I wouldnt have gotten the attention I did back in the early 00's.
I also noticed all but one opponent of the Heidelberg on this thread actually lives in Detroit. Honky Tonk is the only one who lives in Detroit that opposes the project. Im going by their profiles of what they claim as where they reside. I just find that interesting thats all
I just don't understand why this gets a pass and tagging does not. Who is determining what is art and what is vandalism?Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
No I don't live in Detroit anymore. I don't want to live in a place where junk thrown in empty lots is called art. This would definitely not fly in the suburbs. Yet council gets criticized now for previously wanting to remove garbage thrown on city property under the guise of art.
Heidelberg does not just look like junk was just thrown in a lot. The lawns are mowed, the street is safer than any in the area, a lot of care has gone into this effort even though you consider it junk. Walk five blocks and see if you find a more active block, hell you could go 15 blocks if you dont count the traffic on Gratiot. Detroit has long been due for a comeback and its not going to come overnight. You cant expect taggers to disperse because the DPD says in the Freep theres a new crackdown. If there is a key to rebuilding this city its going to start with people who who dont mind taking over a squalid part of the city and making what they can with it. Look at Greenwich Village NYC, the place was a ghetto until artists moved in. Snap your fingers a few more times and see what happens. A beautiful place to live is a key to bringing in people to live and work, Tyree has made a small but beautiful niche in this city which many believe in. The Corridor when I first moved in 20 yrs ago was a mess but artists kept moving in but look at it now. You can stay up in Sterling Heights and armchair whats good for us but remember you gave up on us and you have to admit, Detroit is on the upswing right now after dozens of years. Do you see any tagging going on in the Heidelberg? They wouldnt dare.
"Honky Tonk is the only one who lives in Detroit that opposes the project." Hello, I can hear you, you know. WHAT "project" do I oppose? I drive by Heidelberg regularly, during the course of business, and I see kids with cameras taking photos all the time. If Tyree DID impose a photography ban, it certainly doesn't appear it's being enforced. What DID happen to the "rock stacking" project by the CG station? I actually took kids there from my old 'hood, met the artist, and they stacked some rocks with his help. Great fun and I thought it looked cool. Somewhere in my archives is a photo shoot I did of it in it's heyday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
It doesn't look better than the rest of the neighborhood. Where in Greenwich Village is there a bunch of multi colored junk piled in an entire block of vacant lots? This project has been around for about 15 years but the neighborhood hasn't improved. Obviously this "beautiful" block hasn't brought anyone to the area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
Actually I live in Warren now. Warren is a good city to armchair Detroit's issues. Warren like Detroit has lost significant population yet Warren doesn't have things like the Heidelberg because they have a dedicated blight enforcement that would fine people for piling their junk on city property. Also don't have some of the highest crime in the country and can keep the streetlights on without a state subsidy. It's kind of hard to sell me on this Detroit upswing when the city lost 25% of its population this past decade, has its highest homicide rate ever, and the city is bankrupt. When I lived in Detroit in the 90's, the population was still around a million and had numerous middle class neighborhoods and things were getting built like the stadiums and casinos.
No but you do need to actually create something beautiful not a bunch of neatly arrainged trash. There is nothing beautiful about the Heidelberg Project. There is a lot of art that I don't like but can see the merits of. You mentioned the rock stacking while it isn't my thing but at least it somewhat resembles art. To me Tyree Guyton is just a step above the guy who pisses in a jar and calls it art.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
Why does this matter? Just because I live in Flint I am not allowed to have an opinion? Sorry for giving a shit about "your" city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
I'd STILL like to know WHAT "project" it is, I oppose??????Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
Yeah and I don't really oppose it either. I just think it is worthless and am not saddened by the burning of the house. The only thing about this story that annoys me is the act of arson.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
If Heidelberg is truly a significant art project why have I never heard of any place else copying of improving on the concept? In most cases people look at it as an oddity, but not something they would want in their own neighborhood.
That's not my point, why do people feel I oppose it???? Django, you up yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
If I read another negative point about Heidelberg Project, I will personnally come to your house, drag you out, tie you to a tree and staple Teddy Bears and Tonka Trucks over your vinyl siding while you watch...
Ok Canuck, let's do it again but this time put more emotion into it...
Speed, rolling...Action!
Good luck. My house is brick and Warren police will actually respond.Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck
That's why there's Warren peace.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Lol, Nice.
I like Heidelburg except for the stuffed animal house, that creeps me. I see art and whimsy in everything else.
Just imagine, in a few more years you will visit "The Henry Ford", and there it will be, The Heidelburg Project!
The cool thing about the Heidelburg Project is that you can superimpose your own meaning over it. Like all great art, it asks to be interpreted, and yet no interpretation ever seems to be enough.
I don't know if anyone remembers, but Tyree Guyton did a month long exhibit @ the DIA. By invitation.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickBeall
Not only that, but last year he was invited, and served, a one-year arts residency, in Switzerland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Whether you like his work or not, art being subjective, you can't deny he has a quite a following. Just connect the dots.Quote:
Originally Posted by marshamusic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Charles Manson had a following, doesn't validate his work.
It smells when you start pulling things out of your a$$. You're comparing Tyree Guydon to Charles Manson? Why don't you try Adolph Hitler, he had a following too? Gimme a break, you don't like his stuff, you don't like his stuff, but let's not get stupid. Thanx.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
Whether his stuff is good or not, he put his art on property he doesn't own and imposed it on the neighborhood.
It's called hyperbole you idiot. I did not compare him to Manson I simply stated that they both had followings, but I think we all know that just because a few idiots like what you do doesn't make it good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
First off, I really don't care for Tyree's art style. I like some of it, some of it is pure genius, most of it is meh, to me. But I like what he's doing, what he's done, and can certainly tell the difference between an artist and a vandal destroying private property. Your starting to let your hatred of Tyree Guyton and his art interfere with your train of thought. I do know what hyperbole is, thank you, none the less,it was a dumb-ass comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
Actually, that's exactly what it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
For that matter, Manson is still releasing music and people are still buying it.
You're doing the same thing on this forum, but I doubt anyone would call it art.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
Maybe Tyree's art would not be Tyree's art if he owned the canvas. That may be part of the secret ingredient. I don't think Tyree even knows why he does it. I think he did it, and made up "explanations" later. His stuff is like an apocalyptic Disneyland: Colorful, well used, well loved, things left to the elements like there was some nuclear war which turned people into shadows, just leaving the "things" behind. An army of shoes with the people incinerated where they stood. Or it's an echo of Dudley Randall's poem "Ballad of Birmingham"
... Then lifted out a shoe.
“O, here’s the shoe my baby wore,
But, baby, where are you?”
Or you could create interpretations of individual groupings that he has had there. All the art is exposed to the elements. All of it is temporary, though it is all so big and colorful it looks permanent. But it is only the mad man's fixed idea that keeps it that way. I remember in year's past there was a circle of drinking fountains. Normally, people might gather around a drinking fountain or water cooler to talk, but here was a grouping of water fountains. What would they talk about?
A poet could go in there and animate all those objects with words. Another poet could go in there and animate them with wholly other words and wholly different meanings. Someone less articulate might go in there and feel the totemic power, but be unable to do anything but take pictures.
Ha ha, unless, my pet peeve, Tyree still does not allow people to stand on public property and take pictures of other things on public property.
And some hate it. Some love it. All feel the power. Some of the people who lived in the neighborhood hated it. You have to sympathize with them. Others loved it. Controversy. And at it's heart, an unknowable truth, an unknowable truth that is nevertheless in all our hearts.
I know it is written on your heart, because you can't stop talking about it.
Bravo RickBeall, splendidly put together!
Please tell me you didn't just confuse Marilyn Manson with Charles Manson. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by noise
I don't hate Tyree, I have no feelings either way. I just stated I do not like his art and said that just because some people like it doesn't mean it is good. You are the one who seemed to take this way too friggen personal. Get over yourself dude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Sorry Honky Tonk, I misspoke, I thought you posted you did not like the project.
So we've met on Belle Isle, I met so many people during that time I doubt I could place your face as I worked with a lot of kids down there. That was a great time in my life.
Sholin, I dont live in Warren or Sterling Heights because I certainly wouldnt be welcome. I enjoy the freedom of Detroit, we are a rare breed that can see the beauty in the decay. Most people like the security and neatness of the suburbs obviously but I am not one of those people.
This site used to be Detroiters talking about Detroit and not so much looking down the nose from suburbanites. Used to be a lot of fun and a lot friendlier.
I hereby declare the Heidelberg beautiful and thats that;).
I have a few suggestions that you can do with yourself too.Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Whatever dude. Have fun with yourself. I will no longer reply to your childish posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheels
Yeah right, you expect an artistic project to be duplicated ad nauseam like a fast food franchise to prove it is a success.
If you didnt have guys like Tyree, you would be swamped in a sea of repetitively manicured lawns and service stations galore with no let-up. There are other examples of people who forged their own idea of beauty in a similar way upontheir immediate environment. They are not all Gaudis or Gehrys but their importance in the vast landscape of repeated gestures provides respite and inspiration to many. Look at Simon Rodia's life's work in Los Angeles; It is now on the National Register of Historic Places and is a California State Park!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Towers
THAT???? Why it looks like a bunch of old scrap metal and bicycle wheels someone spot welded together! Why doesn't he cover it with vinyl siding or paint it or something? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by canuck
How long could something like that exist in Detroit though before the scrappers would tear it down?Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
A fiver says one weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by aj3647
Quote:
Originally Posted by aj3647
I''m sure a lot of folks thought the same thing about it being in Watts, if you get my meaning; wink wink, nod nod, lol, rolleyes, kerplunk and all that other stuff.
Thanks Canuck for the link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watts_Towers Ive always wondered about those towers and now I read the story and a good one too. Poor guy had to leave town because of the haters and now its a National Historic Landmark. Very relevant to this thread.
Is Marilyn Manson still releasing records? Who is buying those?Quote:
Originally Posted by gumby
An Indie Go Go fundraiser for The Heidelberg Project to purchase equipment and supplies needed to rebuild after the fire...
Art from the Ashes: Reclaiming the Canvas
http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/ar...ing-the-canvas
Sept. 23, 2019
"Detroit — Arson investigators are questioning a person of interest in connection with a Monday morning fire at a building that's part of the popular Heidelberg Project art installation.
"Deputy Fire Commissioner David Fornell said the individual was taken into custody and that the city's fire marshal is on the scene of the east side blaze that broke out just after 6:45 a.m. at the project's "You" building on Mt. Elliott, south of Mack."
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...ng/2416995001/
messed up. unfortunately it will probably happen again.
Saw it with my own two eyes. Sad to see pop up go up in smoke. Police found that firebug that burned the building down.
Maybe they should secretly construct a fireproof decoy house just to frustrate the firebugs?
Maybe Illitch should buy the whole area.
As I have stated here several times the fire bug is Guyton. Every time he needs money a building goes up in flames. After that the sympathy money just rolls in! I am biding my time until I can legally take of flamethrower to that piece of crap.
There is a bar/restaurant in Utica that is fantastic but it burns down every 25-30 years. It's a thing sometimes.
Point is, this would not surprise me. Guyton is a smart dude.
You must be referring to the Shamrock. They keep rebuilding though!Quote:
Originally Posted by bartocktoo
Yes I was...and for my money tied for the best non-slider burgers with Redcoat in this area!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
Guyton was a former DFD firefighter. Not at all saying he did this but, if he chose to, he would likely know the ropes. What argues strongly against his not doing so, from my artist viewpoint, is that he put a tremendous amount of effort into those houses, from collection of items, to countless ladder climbs and more, not to mention how the overall project has been diminished by their loss, and he certainly couldn't have had insurance policies on any of them. No money, just a demolition bill instead.
I fail to see the 'win' in it. I don't know any artist who puts their heart, soul and effort in a major work then destroys it AND [in this case] risks an arson felony charge which becomes a murder charge should a fireman happen to die fighting the fire. He would know that too.
There are a lot of people who do not like the project, ranging from aesthetic taste, to flat out jealousy, to pranking kids. Look there.