Signs say Closed for Construction and Under New Management. Now owned by the Cotton Family, who have purchased a good deal of property on that end of Kercheval in GP Park.
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Signs say Closed for Construction and Under New Management. Now owned by the Cotton Family, who have purchased a good deal of property on that end of Kercheval in GP Park.
It's all part of the bigger plan. Relax.
Hit up Harry's in the meantime.
I know it is going to re-open, I just hope they don't take it too upscale.
Agreed. That WAS the beauty of Janet's Lunch. Any idea who this Cotton family is? With Janet's closed, Meuller's closed, ACE relocated, my world is shattered. What next? Head banging heavy metal concerts on Belle Isle? Thank God Pointe Hardware is still in tact.
Country Kitchen
Was that the PS West of there? That was a shaky place, but a nice mix of customers. I used to see Detroiters and GPers coming out of there. Ever been to the Texas Bar? Looks interesting to me. What's "Harry's"? On Clifford?
I have never been eagle-eyed by regulars more fiercely than walking into the Texas for one of my cousin's son's shows, when he was still in high school. It was freaky-weird, I expected to hear Dueling Banjos break-out from somewhere.
As for the Country Kitchen, they are recommended...but don't be surprised if every third visit you seem invisible. I've seen more frustrated guests there than anywhere else, and have been subject to it myself twice.
Dunno about any Harry's besides the Clifford one either...but I'd go across the street to visit Greengo's brilliant beauties for some healthier fare instead. Might just have to do that now...although it is too wet for a stroll. ugh.
I would go even broker if I went to the Sprout House regularly. They inspired me with their smoothies so much that I burned out our blender. Now I have none.
But Greengos knows just how to tempt me with their Facebook prompts. Damnit.
HT, a True Value Hardware is moving into the old Ace location in the Village. As for Mulier's they had been mailing it in for years! Although one of the Mulier family members has moved to Village Food Market as a butcher[[you can get your Ace fix and walk across the street). Janet's also was a shell of its former self, and I am interested to see what they want to do with the diner.
HT, the Cottons make a s**tload of money off of our taxes. They do 3rd party medical billing mainly through medicare/medicaid. The latest issue of the Pointer has an article on them. The very large mansion on Lakeshore just past the Alger house is being built by one the family members.
The food at Janet's was never something to brag about. But it had a cool retro vibe. It was a true neighborhood place.
But one way in which it had slipped in recent years was cleanliness. The floor was a constant disaster. The grill and other kitchen equipment exposed in the center of the cool U-shaped counter were embarassingly scuzzy [[is that a word?) The place had developed such a level of grime that it was clear that the proprietors really didn't care much about their customers. People notice this stuff and stay away.
I was there a few weeks ago, and yes, currently it IS a cluster*&%@. Once they get all their stock out and get organized, I think they're going to be a very profitable store. I find it hard to believe they couldn't pay their rent @ the old location. They had a lot of good traffic there. As far as parking, how can you go wrong being located on an old car dealer lot? PLENTY of spaces to choose from. Unfortunately, both the new ACE and The Village Mkt. are a bit too far for me now to run across the border, [[time & materials, gas prices), everytime I need something for a repair @ home. I guess I'll have to make like a REAL Detroiter and haul it in from the 'burbs on my way home from work.
How do GP residents deal with all the meters? Do most places validate?
I always wondered how this works. I can't imagine everyone walks around with a bucket of change for every time they go to the library or grocery store.
Maybe I'm missing something, but there's that whole strip going East on Mack.
I can't think of anyplace in Birmingham [[or in any other suburb) with a similar setup. All the supermarkets and the like have normal free surface parking.
In the Pointes, if you want Kroger, or Trader Joes, you have to pay for parking, I think. Is there a way around it?
It's actually being built by both sons. There is supposed to be a second house built on the accompanying lot [[i'm guessing it won't be as big due to size of the lot).
As for the family, I grew up a few houses down from the cotton's. The parents still live in GPP down the street from my parents. All-in-all, a really nice family and they are trying hard to change Grosse Pointe [[as a whole) into an even more desirable place to live. Unfortunately, they are getting push-back from older Grosse Pointer's that don't want change. However, there is enough younger blood moving in and running for office positions that I think we will see some real positive changes the next couple of years.
Not sure about the Borders/Ace hardware block. We have heard lots of rumors including everything from one or more high end retail shops [[not TV) to Beaumont acquiring the whole block for offices. This is actually the the first i've heard of True Value moving in. Due to the proximity of ace and pointe hardware i'm a little skeptical about this rumor.
As for Ace, it's my understanding they needed to get out quick, hence the disorganized layout. They are supposedly going to renovate the new store in stages.
Again, this is all hearsay so take for what it's worth as rumors run rampant in GP.
I assume they are like that because Kroger and Papa joes own the lots. I can't think of any other public road or deck in downtown Bham that isn't metered or pay.
In GP all the surface lots are city owned. Some one older than me will have to comment, but i don't recall a time when they were ever not metered.
While a bit uncommon, I don't understand why one would be flustered at seeing meters.
Re the Beaumont offices rumor. Fairly certain that the zoning requires the first floor of all buildings in the village be retail. I suppose Beaumont could buy...er I mean..."argue" for a variance.
The decks in Birmingham are all free for two hours, and free Sundays. And no way would they ever put a supermarket where you have to park in the decks or feed the meters.
It isn't really the "wow, parking sometimes costs money downtown" issue I'm curious about, but rather the placement of supermarkets and the like in areas where you need to deal with paid meters and the like, but it's probably just because the Pointes don't have much sprawly big-box stuff, and like to keep the commercial stuff in downtown environments.
The good part, of course, is that the streetscape looks much nicer in the Pointes, with less big box strip mall garbage everywhere.
Yup. and again, the meters were there before the Kroger. Could they put them in now without an outcry... probably not.
In any event, the lots and all street parking is free on sundays in GP as well. Which i would think is the busiest time for Kroger.
Also FWIW the Kroger up on Mack and Vernier is a free lot...while all the rest of Mack is metered.
Kind of beating a dead horse the lots in B'ham are far away from where we want to be unless you are going to the library, and you are comparing a very small 3 block area to a much larger area i.e. "downtown" Birmingham. Its apples and oranges when its all said and down. Everyone here deals with it and for the most part nobody complains except when they have to pay a meter violation.
A few thoughts.
First, the whole parking meter fiasco. All three branches of the library offer free parking. As for shopping, the parking fees in the Village are 50 cents an hour. Most stereotypical shoppers [[women) have at least two quarters in thier change purse most times. TJ's validates, and the lot behind the former Ace has an addendant/machine that will provide change and/or accept credit cards. It makes sense to have meters on the actual streets, to make people who are going to be there for a longer trip park in the back and keep the front spaces turning over... similar to Birmingham's street meters. In addition, BHam, the two stores that you provided as examples of no-brainers for free parking are neither in Downtown Birmingham nor part of larger shopping districts [[where multiple independently owned buildings compete for parking spaces). They are both not much more than [[very nice looking) strip malls located across Woodward from Downtown Birmingham [[on private property without risk that people will park there and walk off-site to shop elsewhere).
Second, the West Park area [[Janets lunch, etc) is being developed as a upper-end restaurant district. And, sorry to say, I heard from more than one source that the hardware store finally sold out as well after holding out for a long time. I have heard that there is a proposal taking shape to cut off Kercheval to through traffic before Alter.
Third, I have heard that the Village ACE decided to move to their new location because they did not own the building and the rent was rising somewhat quickly. They bought the building on Mack themselves, renovated, and moved in. I was excited, as it is closer to my house, but I was very upset with my first visit there. I'm letting myself cool down a bit an giving them a chance to get all thier stock and systems worked out before I give them another chance. The aisles were tiny, the merchandise was poorly organized, the registers are basically four machines along one long service counter [[like a Barnes and Noble, except I have a shopping cart and giant merchandise like a trash can that I'm trying to maneuver to my register). I'm glad to hear on another post that thier move was hasty and they have plans for more thorough rennovations as time goes by... they should let thier customers know that!!
Those empty storefronts aren't all attributable to the start of paid parking. Most of it is due to developer Hakim Fakhoury bailing on developing all those storefronts after extended disputes with the city. That's the major reason. In comparison, the parking is miniscule.
You are correct on the west village plan is to block off kercheval at alter. Not sure if this will fly as they would be blocking it off from Detroit, and other posts have commented on this being a bus route that can't be denied access, but we'll wait and see. There was a write-up in crains on the whole renovation [[http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20130120/NEWS/301209966)
It sounds like it will be a very great and promising investment for GPP. The west village section has always been way underutilized IMO.
My understanding of the ACE move was more than just the rent [[although that was a huge issue) but also they wanted to build out again and they were denied the ability to do so. Back when it was Damman's hardware it was only half the size. The first expansion [[which was noticable by the elevation in the floor) was done some time in the late 1990's-early 2000's. I guess they wanted to expand again and take over the defunct Borders but couldn't coupled with rents being outrageous justified the move. I'm hopeful they can make a run on Mack as this would be a great alternative to having to run out to Lowes/HD everytime i'm doing a project.
I'm so glad we are finally willing to get these key issues discussed fairly and openly!!
;-)
Well the Paid Parking was a direct result of him. The DDA floated Bonds for the Parking Structures for his development. They were going to be paid back by the increase in taxes the development brought in. The Parking Structures got built but the rest of the project did not. So the DDA has to make those bond payments and the only way to do it was to charge for parking.
West Dearborn needs a total overhaul of the street structure to calm traffic and open up sidewalk space, it could be a very viable downtown area in less than 5 years. The issue is that Dearborn won't let it happen. The reason Dearborn has changed so much is people here got old. It's the same issue in East Dearborn -- I actually wonder what the planners and DDA do there -- they are some of the worst in Metro Detroit. The City really should be amazing and leadership over the past 20 years has caused it to fail old people dont like change so they vote for the same people.
As for Grosse Point - I think it has the same issue as Dearborn with old people, but that seems to be changing. The major issue I see is that the Points used to only have ghetto on the south - now it is on the west as well. How many GP shop at Eastland now -- How many used to go there 15 years ago.
We went to Janet's once. Sat at the counter on stools that seemed about 1 foot high. Food was average. Checked it out one time and that was good enough.
Janet's is a loss for nostalgia value, but I haven't eaten there in a few years now. The food just got worse and worse, and the place got grungier and grungier. Here's hoping that the new owners keep enough of the nostalgia value to preserve what was special and charming about the place, but update and improve the rest.
Mulier's was a real loss, but perhaps I'm biased because my mother and my late grandmother bought their meat there for years, and the owners were distant relatives of ours. But they were the best place for meat in this part of town, and were great on handling special orders.
The hardware store situation is bizarre. That new Ace store is farther away and strangely set up. I miss having them on Kercheval. Pointe Hardware is only good for limited things, but they are an institution in the cabbage patch and I would hate to see them go. It would be like losing the Rustics [[and then where would my relatives go?).
I hope they don't really close Kercheval. A lot of Detroiters, like my mother, come that way regularly to go the the stores in GP. But then I guess keeping us out may be part of the plan...
So theres' a big Detroit Newsarticle detailing some pretty ambitious plans.
I don't know the Pointes well enough to have an opinion on whether this will work, but it seems to be heavily geared towards forming an impermeable wall between the Pointes and Detroit.
First, the Cottons are investing big bucks in the Cabbage Patch, with subsidized rents for college students [[a pretty obvious gambit to keep out black Detroters moving in from the East Side), and second, they plan to block Kercheval and create a pedestrian mall, which is odd.
First, how can you shut down a major street into an adjoining community, and second, where in Michigan has there ever been a successful pedestrian mall?
Link: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2.../BIZ/302280376
If you think about the physical arrangement, the blockage and ped mall really is mostly about removing through traffic and promoting this five-block stretch as a restaurant destination without through traffic. It's not like the plan includes an electric fence or moat... Detroit is still the same distance away. So people have to drive 1/4 mile out of the way to get around there... or just walk the same route as they would have.
Part of the article talks about closing the street for a ped mall and an office building... that would be a little extreme to literally build a building across the street. But, I guess, not surprising. Maybe I'm talking myself out of this.
I think the pedestrian mall part is certainly unconventional. Pedestrian malls have a very poor history in the U.S., and I can't think of any working examples of what they hope to create.
I do like the restaurant focus, though. The east side of the metro area isn't exactly bursting with good restaurants, and you would think there's an underserved market.
Most of GPs crime comes in from Detroit.
I'm not so sure that's entirely the reason. From my observations, the Beaumont Medical Dynasty is rapidly expanding in that neck of the woods. I see a lot of "kids" [[ok, I'm old) in scrubs walking around that end of town. I think the hope or idea is to make that end some kind of medical residency/training section. IMO.
Well it appears the info regarding the True Value is accurate.
http://grossepointe.patch.com/articl...ead-in-village
I think the "under served by restaurants" meme is really out of date. There are tons of restaurants from Vernier to Alter on Mack. There are two " restaurants of the year" on the Hill. [[The Hill & Dirty Dog) as well as a few other spots [[Nini, Jumps, soon to be Luxe in the old Lucy's). The Village has what? 5 restaurants and 4 Bagel/coffee places? Kercheval in the Park has a handful of places and getting more restaurants.
I mean throw in the random fast food options, pizza places, and Carry out places like Dish...as well as the private clubs and I wonder how many more restaurants this area will support.
True but how many decent restaurants are there? The Hills sucks the food is lousy[[especially since it changed hands and the owner's daughter has been clueless trying to manage the restaurant). The D.D. is excellent but you cannot talk during the music. Jumps is also decent but even at 50 I am usually the youngest by 20-30 years in the place. The Village Grille serves low grade dog food and Sidestreet is not much better. The Thai restaurant is tolerable. The clubs are limited to members and their guests only although they have been one of the biggest impediments to restaurant development for years. Plus how many mediocre/worthless Italian restaurants do you really want? Don't get me started on how bad most of the pizza is here[[but not all). When its all said and done there is not much variety which is why I am looking forward to the development in the Park, it could be a step in the right direction.
Blocking off Kercheval and creating a pedestrian mall is a bad idea for so many reasons it's hard to know where to start.
First, as any planner will advise, this creature of mis-guided 20th Century thinking only succeeds in creating thriving districts in very limited circumstances. E.g., very high volume tourist traffic, very high density [[think high-rise Manhattan, Chicago, Vancouver) residential populations nearby, or nearby captive populations like college students. GPP fits none of these categories. Kercheval Road is the equivalent of a small town Main Street. Small Town Main Street retail and restaurant owners need foot traffic AND vehicle traffic. Main Street customers don’t necessarily need to park right in front of the door, but they do need to scope out where the door is, and whether the business is open, etc. It’s basic shopping habit. A pedestrian mall on Kercheval Road in GPP anchored by an [[ugh!) medical office building is guaranteed for ghost town status within 5 years.
Next, if the Cotton family is as philanthropic as suggested, why aren’t they exploring how such a massive investment on Kercheval Road east of Alter Road could be a catalyst for development west of Alter Road, a few yards away in – Detroit. Why wall off their investment? Take advantage of the cheap land, work with Detroit Future City, find other partners and figure out what will succeed. Not suggesting a gift or a handout to Detroit, I’m suggesting the Cottons think bigger and better. Implementing a plan that blocks an important secondary collector road at the Detroit border with the ass-end of a medical building is short sighted and will guarantee that Kercheval Road from Alter Road to Conner Road is lost to the future urban forest.
Also, the politics of closing the street are awful. Do the Cottons think that security will be enhanced? Fat chance. And it will justifiably be seen as a “Keep Detroiters out” tactic. Creating a playground for white surburbanites, etc. The project will be permanently stigmatized. [[And really, what’s to stop [[code word alert) non-shoppers and non-diners from sauntering in, occupying benches and planters for hours on end and causing trouble.)
Also, even “desireable” customers to the area who are arriving from the west need to reach Kercheval somehow. If the street is blocked, are folks supposed to wind their way through the very narrow adjacent residential streets. All of these streets are so narrow that parking is only allowed on one side. Plenty of kids playing too. Exactly the kind of streets that don’t need more traffic.
Successful small town Main Streets require an intensity of use that can only be achieved through a combination of vehicle and pedestrian traffic. Closing Kercheval Road is a sure loser of an idea. Hopefully GPP decision makers understand this and quickly shoot down the idea of closing the street.
The Cottons are turning the vintage Standard gas station on Kercheval into a fine dining resturant. Nice to see a building like that being saved.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
If this is the place I am thinking about I went once. Seemed family-owned quaint, very friendly but food not remarkable.
What was remarkable was the fact that I didn't notice they did'nt take VISA/MASTER until the bill came. I offered a check as I had no cash and they we're so nice as I apologized for not noting their policy. I left a tip and oddly they never cashed the check!
A significant amount of business also comes from Detroiters. I doubt if the population of the Pointes alone is enough to sustain the 3 retail areas on Kercheval. Especially so for GPP, since large numbers of people from further out in the Pointes are unlikely to travel that far west.In any event, I think closing off Kercheval to auto traffic [[but not to pedestrian traffic) is at least as likely to fail disastrously as it is to succeed.
A big part of the problem is that GP skews so old, which makes sustaining restaurants, bars, etc. difficult [[not to mention any reasonably fashionable shopping). Anything that brings younger people with a little money in, and helps them with a reasonably priced place to live, would definitely be an improvement.
Of course, as proposed by Swingline above, with the near-emptying out of the neighborhood, positive development on the other side of Alter would be even more beneficial. But I guess that will have to wait for economically better, and more tolerant and less fearful, times.
Swingline I agree with you about closeing Kercheval, the pedestrian mall and parking. On the other hand I think the Cottons are not philanthropic they are looking to get a good return on their investment. I do not see that happening to the west of Alter, maybe you have a few suggestions for a way to profit from development in that area?
As for any upscale project exclusivity it what makes it work, everyone cannot be included.
As for getting to Kercheval 99.9% of those who will be patronizing the area from other parts of town will arrive from the Cadiuex or Moross exits off I-94 or from E. Jefferson. NOBODY except for those living just across the border uses Kercheval to enter GP fromt the west.
Harry's is a breakfast/lunch/dinner restaurant located on Mack just north of Somerset. It's been there for years.Quote:
http://goo.gl/maps/Gj6ly
https://plus.google.com/109741106041...ut?gl=us&hl=en
I don't know that you could reasonably say the food at the Hill "sucks". I haven't noticed any drop off. The menu has changed a little, but "suck"? c'mon.
I'm with you on most of the rest. DD has started to relax a bit during the week though. Village grill has NEVER served anything by semi- decent diner food and its been around for 30[[?) years. it's a casual place to catch a ball game have some beers and eat greasy food...or a place to take kids. Not for a culinary experience. It's a "Big Boy"..or a Rams Horn equivalent and it fills a niche.
I don't understand it either, but for some reason Jumps is an local institution. but again, apparently it has it's niche.
City Kitchen is good and thriving. Da'Eduardos is always good. Cafe Nini is tiny, but very nice. Noble Pig is really good. Blue Fin is expanding.... I'm happy to see the new additions to the Park [[and the new stuff coming in the Village and on the Hill) , but I think you're giving short shrift to what is around now.
Yes the food SUCKS especially for the price you pay, the Hill has not severed a good meal in years and has been living off its "reputation" for quite a long time. Everyone I know who has been a long time Hill patron has been complaining about the bad food. City Kitchen has good food, but has skiddish service once and awhile but overall a nice place. Da'Eduardos is in the worthless Italian category, but Cafe Nini is quite nice and they owned by the same family. I wish Nini could expand a bit. I have yet to try the Noble Pig. The Blue Fin is good and I hope expansion to the death zone does not hurt them.
As for giving the short shift for what we have described one needs a car and several minutes to get around to the number of restaurants, while more[[in number) and far better restaurants are all within walking distance in Ferndale to name one area. I am very interested to see what happens to the old Wright-Kay building in the Village, I have always thought that the location would make a great spot for a restaurant.
Bailey when is comes to fine dining you are at a loss as my wife is a far superior chef compared to the chefs at all the establishments mentioned here and my idea of good fare is quite different than most.
Told to go pound sand by whom? Sellers? The City? Would love to hear a name and a credible source. It would seem that there would be plenty of sellers in that area for a buyer like the Cottons with cash. Even the worst kind of speculators have to know that there is no gold mine when it comes to property on Kercheval in Detroit.
I took my first spin on a stool in Janets with my Old Man back in '69, as I grew up over the years and eventually learns the ills of excessive alcohol consumption I found that a plate of hash browns, two over easy, bacon and a side of dry rye would put you in post hang-over heaven!!!
EASTSIDE CAT - Janet's has had a liquor license for a few months, so it would be one-stop shopping for you, so to speak...
I think this plan nicely illustrates the problems with the "let one rich guy buy up a bunch of property and do whatever he wants" school of urban revitalization. The skillset required to design a successful urban district is different from the skillset required to make a big pile of money starting an HMO [[or, say, selling pizzas or hawking mortgages, to pick two other completely random examples). Americans have this weird tendency to assume that anyone capable of getting rich by doing one thing in particular must be hypercompetent in general, and that just isn't the case.
valid point. However, I don't think the Gilbertonian/Illitch comparison applies to the Cottons in GP. Kercheval in the Park is not being "revitalized". It's a stable, intact business district. It's being redesigned and evolving. Both of which are being embraced by the vast majority of residents. I've not spoken to one person that says it shouldn't happen. Skeptical? sure. Want to know more about it? yes. Against it? Not one.
AGREED! Bob Larsen almost ran that place into the ground, but that's what happens when you don't know what you're doing and have a restaurant as "a hobby." Black mold and rodents and bad food, oh my! Honestly, aside from returning after years to discover that the awesome hashbrowns of my youth now sucked, having to deal with that DB totally turned me off from going back.
I have heard that the Cottons are just revamping a little, clean and bandage it up, but keep the same form. I hope they keep Linda and her drawn on eyebrows!!
The one thing you have to appreciate is that the service is first rate, they actually know what they are talking about, and can do a lot of extras not done at Home Depot.
I once went to Ace in the Village and asked one of the clerks about getting a valve for my steam radiator. He actually said with a straight face that their selection of automotive parts was very limited.
There has been a lot of rumors going around about the development on Kercheval, the latest is that the Janets Lunch building has been condemned
and that the building will be torn down. I hope my source is wrong.
Water and structural damage.
http://www.heraldonline.com/2013/03/...rk-closes.html
First the Bronze Door, then Diamond Lil's now Janet's Lunch - is nothing sacred in GP anymore! GP Charles is depressed, even further.
C'mon GPCharles the BD and DL have been gone for how long? While the BD was a cool place and the Deuce always added a little color, was DL that great? As for Janet's in 35+ years all I remember was a very dirty, smelly place with shitty food. Every time someone talked me into going because Janet's had "cleaned" up my skin would start crawling minutes after I arrived. Although my father did meet his mistress there and was on the phone with her while six kids were pumping bullets into him. I am very exited to see what replaces Janet's as well as the rest of the projects underway.
It's true, it's true - sarcasm does not translate well on the internet.
I WAS KIDDING, for Pete's sake!!!
Giving Harry's a tryout this weekend.
I wonder, did they transfer the liquor license from Janet's Lunch to Red Crown?