What would be the outcome of the Kilpatrick Corruption Trial?

Printable View

February-13-13, 10:42 AM
Danny

What would be the outcome of the Kilpatrick Corruption Trial?

Just last year former Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, his father Benard Kilpatrick, their goon squads Bobby Ferguson and Former DPW board member Victor Mercado were charged up to 19 counts of fraud, extortions, embezzement and accepting bribes while excercizing their duties for Detroit City Government.

What would happen if all of them were found 'GUILTY IS SIN!' from all of those counts? Would you cheer or be sad that their 'playa maya' and his thug mafia is failed their principles.

Having KING KWAME and his thug knights to be put in bars for almost 20 years might cool them down and give them time to think about their troubles and how they can redeem themselves so that their image remains intact.

Only time will tell. Feel free to comment.
February-13-13, 11:00 AM
Hypestyles

whatever the verdict, I'm really sick of hearing about all of the principal parties involved. Whether an acquittal, conviction or something else, Detroit needs help badly.
February-13-13, 11:15 AM
Gary

It wouldn't break my heart to see all of them get locked up, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they managed to beat at least some of the charges.
February-13-13, 12:04 PM
Wesley Mouch

If indeed Kwame is guilty -- which I do believe, but of course will be dedided by a jury of his peers based on evidence -- then I do hope the sentence is severe. Municipal corruption at all levels is a problem everyone in the US. Its not unique to Detroit. We just notice it more because there's not enough money around to paper it over.

I do predict a big fall here -- because Kwame so believed he was above every law at every level. Martial, social, political, business, earring.
February-13-13, 12:19 PM
Zacha341

Yes, back in the day when it was 'papered' over was the heyday. Everyone got paid that was part of the 'friends and family' clique!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

... We just notice it more because there's not enough money around to paper it over.

I do predict a big fall here -- because Kwame so believed he was above every law at every level. Martial, social, political, business, earring.
February-13-13, 12:45 PM
DetBill

I personally dont think it takes a rocket scientist to see they are all guilty as hell.. as with KKs earlier situations, they still probably only found out about half of it.I do have a long standing fear though dealing with a Detroit jury that they will get off of most if not all charges,, After all , KK and his buds are "human beings with a family". What that has to do with his crooked behavior has me confused...If anything he should be more ashamed of himself , but , he ofcourse is not. Entitlement is permanently etched in their brains.
February-13-13, 12:50 PM
Honky Tonk

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetBill

I personally dont think it takes a rocket scientist to see they are all guilty as hell.. as with KKs earlier situations, they still probably only found out about half of it.I do have a long standing fear though dealing with a Detroit jury that they will get off of most if not all charges,, After all , KK and his buds are "human beings with a family". What that has to do with his crooked behavior has me confused...If anything he should be more ashamed of himself , but , he ofcourse is not. Entitlement is permanently etched in their brains.

He already paid back $13K in restitution, what more do you want?
February-13-13, 01:00 PM
grancan

Based on his level of arrogance, I was relieved to not see his face among the pictures in the Free Press this morning listing the Mayoral candidates for the next election. Oh, I forgot, he's a Texan now. Sorry!
February-13-13, 01:07 PM
DetroitPlanner

Should he be convicted he and Bobby should be made to work double shifts at the water department fixing water mains until the restitution is paid off. He will be required to wear a tether and live at Momma's. Once it is paid off, he should serve the rest of his sentence in prison.
February-13-13, 01:11 PM
5speedz34

Regardless of the outcome, it will be nice to finally have some closure and be able to move on from this story.

As much as I would like to see them all get guilty convictions I really have my doubts over whether it was a truly 'criminal enterprise' as the Feds try to paint it.
February-13-13, 01:43 PM
Wesley Mouch

Quote:

Originally Posted by 5speedz34

Regardless of the outcome, it will be nice to finally have some closure and be able to move on from this story.

As much as I would like to see them all get guilty convictions I really have my doubts over whether it was a truly 'criminal enterprise' as the Feds try to paint it.

I'm likewise suspicious of use of RICO racketeering statutes, but if you believe criminal acts took place, and you believe it was a group action [[that is they acted together to defraud), then it does seem to be a 'criminal enterprise' by dictionary definition. It sure looks like they collectively acted to steal to me.

Closure? Well, only so far as KK and gang. Real closure will be when there are no other 'criminal enterprises' afflicting our city, country, school districts, airports, etc. That's the closure I'd like to see.
February-13-13, 02:05 PM
Lowell

If he is found guilty, as I highly suspect he will be, the best outcome will be the message "If you try to use public office to steal from the public, we will hunt you down, all the scoundrels you have collaborated with, place you on trial and lock you up for a long time."

I think that message is out there loud and clear now and anyone who is still scamming has to be thinking twice and shutting down.
February-13-13, 02:08 PM
Wesley Mouch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowell

If he is found guilty, as I highly suspect he will be, the best outcome will be the message "If you try to use public office to steal from the public, we will hunt you down, all the scoundrels you have collaborated with, place you on trial and lock you up for a long time."

I think that message is out there loud and clear now and anyone who is still scamming has to be thinking twice and shutting down.

Lowell, your optimism is laudable, but history tells us that corruption in government returns constantly like weeds in a garden. If we ever think we've 'solved' this problem, we'll be wrong. Constant vigilance. Constant. Forever.
February-13-13, 02:31 PM
Tig3rzhark

When Kwame is found guilty, I'm pretty sure that the feds will step in and do an all-out audit of the City of Detroit.

I know that the state is doing it, but it seems that we need the feds to kick in and check the books too. It's not going to be enough.

I met Kwame Kilpatrick in person, and took a pic with him. At that time, I never thought that he would let the power of his office go to his head. It didn't take long for him to prove me wrong.

We got enough problems here in Detroit, not only caused by him, but by everyone after him and before him. No matter where he goes, or how much he pays back in restitution, it will never be enough for what he has done to this city.
February-13-13, 03:00 PM
Strong

I feel for his family. Kwame is a personal friend. I volunteered on both of his campaigns. He had tons of potential and my heart is sadden to see this happen. I wish he would not have done what they have charged him with.
I will pray for him and his family.
February-13-13, 04:10 PM
Lowell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strong

I feel for his family. Kwame is a personal friend. I volunteered on both of his campaigns. He had tons of potential and my heart is sadden to see this happen. I wish he would not have done what they have charged him with. I will pray for him and his family.

I feel sorry for the kids who will suffer for the sins of their elders. As for the rest of the family, I suspect that the complicity is spread throughout and if they weren't a part of it, like his indicted father appears to be, they had to be turning a blind eye to it. All that money and opulence doesn't magically appear.

I also feel sorry for you and others who worked for his election and, as many of us did, saw great potential in him. He had everything needed to lift up this city, education, connections, youth, charisma and intelligence. Such a waste.
February-13-13, 04:54 PM
leapfrog

I'm still not convinced of a conviction. All it takes is one Juror........

[[and I hope I'm wrong in this case)
February-13-13, 04:56 PM
leapfrog

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowell

I feel sorry for the kids who will suffer for the sins of their elders. As for the rest of the family, I suspect that the complicity is spread throughout and if they weren't a part of it, like his indicted father appears to be, they had to be turning a blind eye to it. All that money and opulence doesn't magically appear.

I also feel sorry for you and others who worked for his election and, as many of us did, saw great potential in him. He had everything needed to lift up this city, education, connections, youth, charisma and intelligence. Such a waste.

When KK was running for reelection, in an interview he said he would not want his children around Gay people, and the usual bigoted homophobic BS.
Considering how much damage HE has done to his children with his inability to follow the law, I now have a very difficult time feeling sorry anyone in that family.
As far as I'm concerned, not enough bad things,can happen to that man or his wife.
February-13-13, 05:30 PM
Ray1936

A hung jury wouldn't be surprising. That aside, I truly believe that people run for public office for one of three reasons:

1. An overwhelming ego.
2. "What's in it for me?"
3. [[1) and [[2) above.
February-13-13, 06:04 PM
Meddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strong

I feel for his family. Kwame is a personal friend.

Screw his family. The whole worthless bunch is crooked as hell. Cheeky Momma needs to get locked up too. The guy's just plain garbage and is largely responsible for the low image of Detroit worldwide.

If you're as much of a city cheerleader as you pretend to be, you'd be calling for him to be hung from the fountain at Hart Plaza at high noon.
February-13-13, 09:39 PM
ccal

Quote:

Originally Posted by DetBill

I personally dont think it takes a rocket scientist to see they are all guilty as hell.. as with KKs earlier situations, they still probably only found out about half of it.I do have a long standing fear though dealing with a Detroit jury that they will get off of most if not all charges,, After all , KK and his buds are "human beings with a family". What that has to do with his crooked behavior has me confused...If anything he should be more ashamed of himself , but , he ofcourse is not. Entitlement is permanently etched in their brains.

Detroit jury? Do you understand how the federal court system works? Jurors were chosen from the Eastern District of Michigan,not just Detroit.
February-13-13, 10:43 PM
Zacha341

My family and I were involved in the first campaign, but after we saw his penchant for greed and corruption we moved on. I for one did not vote for him second round. I had a gut sense that his actions first term were not a 'one off' or a slip, but WHO he was...

Still it has been sad in a way for him, in the face of what could have been. Far worse for Detroiters: the audience and residents living in the fall out. Still, I get no personal joy for seeing him and partners in corruption potentially going to the pen - big time - but it what it is: the reaping.

It [[the greed, corruption, coverups, and engagement of others therein) got beyond what he could manage - charisma and 'cash' withstanding!

After a point, you cannot control or stop what people say and ultimate testify sitting upon hard seats of a courtroom covering their own butts.

Even when they where once gainful gleeful recipients of the corruption!

Just too many moving parts. KK made bad choices, compounded and overlapping -- only serving to dig himself further deeper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strong

I feel for his family. Kwame is a personal friend. I volunteered on both of his campaigns. He had tons of potential and my heart is sadden to see this happen. I wish he would not have done what they have charged him with.
I will pray for him and his family.
February-14-13, 09:08 AM
kenp

When he first became Mayor I was in total support, loved his enthusiasm and was excited about what he was doing in the city. It was like things were starting to move forward. By the time of his re-election It was obvious he was a fraud.
I dont wish prison on anybody but it seems warranted.
It only takes one jury member to say no and he is a free man, we shall see.
February-14-13, 10:00 AM
MidTownMs

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccal

Detroit jury? Do you understand how the federal court system works? Jurors were chosen from the Eastern District of Michigan,not just Detroit.

You are absolutely correct. I am always surprised at the number of people who do not know the difference between a federal and a state offense.
February-14-13, 10:38 AM
jackie5275

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lowell

I also feel sorry for you and others who worked for his election and, as many of us did, saw great potential in him. He had everything needed to lift up this city, education, connections, youth, charisma and intelligence. Such a waste.

I always thought he was too young, too immature, & too inexperienced to run Detroit. I think his immaturity played a significant part in his downfall.
February-14-13, 10:53 AM
Cincinnati_Kid

Quote:

Originally Posted by leapfrog

I'm still not convinced of a conviction. All it takes is one Juror........

[[and I hope I'm wrong in this case)

I'm with you. He might get charged for some of the crimes, but I bet him, his Daddy and Ferguson get off on some of the others.
February-14-13, 11:10 AM
rb336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I'm likewise suspicious of use of RICO racketeering statutes, but if you believe criminal acts took place, and you believe it was a group action [[that is they acted together to defraud), then it does seem to be a 'criminal enterprise' by dictionary definition. It sure looks like they collectively acted to steal to me.

RICO is racketeering. It does not have to be done by more than one person, and is applied to anyone who has committed at least two instances of a number of crimes. For the KK gang, bribery, extortion, embezzlement and fraud are the crimes that apply to RICO
February-14-13, 04:06 PM
313hero

Boy the media has done a good job on you guys. Damn shame in my book.
February-14-13, 04:10 PM
313hero

If you follow the FACTS of this case they SHOULD get off Scott free. More than enough reasonable doubt. Hatred and half truths fuel your opinions. I bet half of y'all ignorant son's still think he killed a stripper. And y'all wonder why...
February-14-13, 04:32 PM
TKshreve

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

If you follow the FACTS of this case they SHOULD get off Scott free. More than enough reasonable doubt. Hatred and half truths fuel your opinions. I bet half of y'all ignorant son's still think he killed a stripper. And y'all wonder why...

You're writing skills are directly proportional to your ability to disguise the obvious bias and shill-like status you possess.

They're guilty as sin and should spend a long time in jail. For how much they cost the city, it is justified to want to see their asses thrown in jail for a long time.

Losers.
February-14-13, 04:44 PM
313hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by TKshreve

You're writing skills are directly proportional to your ability to disguise the obvious bias and shill-like status you possess.

They're guilty as sin and should spend a long time in jail. For how much they cost the city, it is justified to want to see their asses thrown in jail for a long time.

Losers.

LOL Typical response. Just typical. And they cost the city how much??? Look at the City NOW. 5 years later. Hmmmmm. I guess its just so easy and comfortable to Blame KMK. SMH so typical. What are they "guilty as sin" of??? Oh thats right whatever the media said they are guilty of. SMH and yall wonder why we all just cant get along
February-14-13, 05:52 PM
Meddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

Boy the media has done a good job on you guys.

Which Kilpatrick are you?
February-14-13, 05:57 PM
rb336

Seriously? you think they should get off? what leads you to "reasonable doubt?"
February-14-13, 06:01 PM
313hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meddle

Which Kilpatrick are you?

So Typical. It's all the same. Typical. It's just funny now. I've been following this fiasco for a long time and it's a damn shame how much the media and prejudices can make all this happen. Granted KMK wasn't a saint but he dont deserve all this. So many BOLD FACED LIES written and reported about him is nuts. The witnesses in this case were shredded. The government can't even tell us how much was given,earned or bribed or kicked back. Feelings are fueling this not hardcore evidence.
February-14-13, 06:15 PM
Meddle

You MUST be related. No one else would defend them.
February-14-13, 06:31 PM
MidTownMs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meddle

You MUST be related. No one else would defend them.

Are you serious...hundreds of people have defended them?
February-14-13, 07:01 PM
grancan

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

If you follow the FACTS of this case they SHOULD get off Scott free. More than enough reasonable doubt. Hatred and half truths fuel your opinions. I bet half of y'all ignorant son's still think he killed a stripper. And y'all wonder why...

How are you getting the FACTS of this case? Are you in the courtroom every day or just skimming info from the newspapers like the rest of us? Ferguson got off last year because one juror was co-opted, not because he wasn't guilty. The rest of this group is dirty as the day is long, but supporters like you will rally behind them right up the steps to the gallows. Wake up and get your head out of the sand. The last five years is a direct result of the pillaging they did while in power. That's their legacy. We have to live with it.
February-14-13, 08:19 PM
Wheels

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidTownMs

Are you serious...hundreds of people have defended them?

No one with half a brain!
February-14-13, 08:24 PM
313hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meddle

You MUST be related. No one else would defend them.

Try talking to some Detroiters that's under 40 and lived here our entire lives. Try it. You going off of your circle. People all over the country still love him and support him. Didn't he go to jail for not reporting 2k that a Pastor from Chicago gave him? Tell me what KMK did and not some old pillaged Detroit crap. Remember its not one embezzlement charge. Hmmmmm. Propaganda works wonders doesn't it?
February-14-13, 09:25 PM
rb336

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

Try talking to some Detroiters that's under 40 and lived here our entire lives. Try it. You going off of your circle. People all over the country still love him and support him.

and that is a sad statement about our country
February-15-13, 02:01 AM
corktownyuppie

Quote:

Originally Posted by rb336

and that is a sad statement about our country

I would universally say I wish I had the means to help pay for every Detroiter under 40 to spend 1 year in Atlanta, DC, or New York.

Maybe it's they who need to "get out of their circle" and see how much better life could be with real leadership, education, and cooperation.

[[and it's not just Detroiters under 40. I'd send lots of suburbanites on my "exchange student" experiment, too.)
February-15-13, 08:42 AM
kenp

Of course he has supporters. There are plenty of individuals he helped out within his circle. Plenty are still holding some of the money like the Chicago preacher.
February-15-13, 10:41 AM
313hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenp

Of course he has supporters. There are plenty of individuals he helped out within his circle. Plenty are still holding some of the money like the Chicago preacher.

Typical. Soooo. Typical and your response is based on what? Facts? No. Propaganda? Yes
February-15-13, 10:46 AM
313hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

I would universally say I wish I had the means to help pay for every Detroiter under 40 to spend 1 year in Atlanta, DC, or New York.

Maybe it's they who need to "get out of their circle" and see how much better life could be with real leadership, education, and cooperation.

[[and it's not just Detroiters under 40. I'd send lots of suburbanites on my "exchange student" experiment, too.)

LOL I've spent plenty of time in all of those locations above and its like comparing apples to oranges. Atlanta is going down, DC is getting better, NY is NY cant compare. MOST of Detroits problems are far beyond the reach of ANY elected official. Now granted the CC has been a thorn in this city for over a decade however you cant say or act as if ALL of these problems are a direct result of failed leadership.
February-15-13, 10:49 AM
bailey

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

Typical. Soooo. Typical and your response is based on what? Facts? No. Propaganda? Yes

They got Al Capone for tax evasion too. Even if one were to discount the "propaganda" [[as you call it) regarding the pay to play nature of the Kilpatrick administration, the simple fact remains he engaged in multiple schemes to evade taxes. Charities do not pay for your kid's sports camps, tuition, family trips...etc.

Defend him all you want.. You're entitled to your ignorance. You're just not entitled to your own facts.
February-15-13, 11:17 AM
Wesley Mouch

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackie5275

I always thought he was too young, too immature, & too inexperienced to run Detroit. I think his immaturity played a significant part in his downfall.

Youth, immaturity, and inexperience do not explain criminal behavior.

To suggest that it wasn't personal faults is unfair to honorable people with youth and inexperience, who bring great maturity to bear.
February-15-13, 11:19 AM
rb336

Quote:

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Maybe it's they who need to "get out of their circle" and see how much better life could be with real leadership, education, and cooperation.

There do seem to be a lot of people in the Detroit area that live in little bubbles - like the Republicans in their Fox News/talk radio bubble. We have the suburban "i'm scared of Detroit" bubble, the Detroit "anyone who says they want to help the city just want to steal its jewels" bubble, the "Kwame is being set up by the people who want to steal Detroit's jewels" bubble, etc.
February-15-13, 02:22 PM
corktownyuppie

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

LOL I've spent plenty of time in all of those locations above and its like comparing apples to oranges. Atlanta is going down, DC is getting better, NY is NY cant compare. MOST of Detroits problems are far beyond the reach of ANY elected official. Now granted the CC has been a thorn in this city for over a decade however you cant say or act as if ALL of these problems are a direct result of failed leadership.

Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else. I am not and was not blaming Kwame or CC or any one single entity on where we are right now.

But for those people who think that "Kwame was just doing his job" once you leave the City of Detroit, his supporters dwindle and all but disappear.

There's a reason why Sharpton, Jackson, and company aren't out here trying to assert that Kwame is getting screwed.
February-15-13, 03:32 PM
313hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

But for those people who think that "Kwame was just doing his job" once you leave the City of Detroit, his supporters dwindle and all but disappear.

There's a reason why Sharpton, Jackson, and company aren't out here trying to assert that Kwame is getting screwed.

Yes his supporters dwindle OUTSIDE the CITY because they are OUTSIDE the CITY. They DONT LIVE Here so all they go off is what the TV tells them. I would hate KMK too if all I was going off was what the media said. But life in the D was better and progressing under KMK
February-15-13, 03:37 PM
Meddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

But life in the D was better and progressing under KMK

Progressing towards oblivion.
February-15-13, 04:40 PM
kenp

I dont think anyone outside this region has a clue who Kwame even is.
February-15-13, 04:50 PM
Meddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

There's a reason why Sharpton, Jackson, and company aren't out here ........

Jesse's got his own problems. Apparently both Jr. and his wife are facing corruption charges.
February-15-13, 04:51 PM
313hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meddle

Progressing towards oblivion.

LMAO soooo Typical
February-15-13, 04:52 PM
313hero

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenp

I dont think anyone outside this region has a clue who Kwame even is.

LMAO suuuure if you think so
February-15-13, 05:42 PM
Gistok

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

LMAO suuuure if you think so

LOL... yeah sure everyone knows who Kwame Kilpatrick is... and they try not to forget him... and according to what happened back in 2008... they remember to steer miles away from him....

"In March 2008, the National Conference of Black Mayors moved its meeting from Detroit to New Orleans due to Kilpatrick's legal travails."

It appears everyone with half a brain has been steering well clear of the Kwamster.... :p
February-15-13, 08:04 PM
Drexciya68

Strip his name and his crooked hero coleman young's name off of all City property.
February-15-13, 08:29 PM
rb336

and strip McNamara's name off everything too
February-16-13, 11:48 AM
corktownyuppie

Quote:

Originally Posted by 313hero

But life in the D was better and progressing under KMK

It may appear that way to the masses. What you didn't see was that life was getting better because Kwame [[and all of city government, for that matter) was doing it on borrowed money, running up the credit card bills to fund all of this quality of life stuff.

I don't want to get into tons of economic analysis on this because it's thick, heady, and boring. Here are the Cliff Notes:

When Kwame was in office, we had access to credit, housing prices were stable, and revenue at the state level was flush, and so was the amount they shared with the cities. Not just Detroit... all over.

The Wall Street disaster with securitized mortgages destroyed us in 2008 and 2009, after Kwame was gone. This wasn't our fault, but we sure paid like hell for it. And the state needed to correct its books....one way they did it was by cutting off the spigot to the cities. All cities.

Whether you think Bing is doing a good or bad job in all of this isn't really the point. The point is that the Kwame was keeping the ship afloat using solutions that were like band-aids over a gushing wound. He was in negotiations to sell the Detroit/Windsor tunnel. They were funding deficits with bonds. [[Deficits they inherited, btw...I'm not pinning all of this on Kwame.) If there was economic growth, then we could pay off the loans with future income.

But alas, not only did the economic growth fail to come, a tidal wave of economic disaster pummeled us left and right. I'm not saying Bing made the right moves, but I will say that he was elected Captain of a ship that was already sinking and headed toward disaster.

The argument that "Things were getting better under Kwame" is like analysis at 7-year-old child's level. Who were they getting better for? Why were they getting better?

This is like the whole Cobo Hall deal. You'll hear people say, "Well once the Cobo Authority took over, all the black-owned business were told to leave."

That's true. And that's very painful. But guess what? Cobo was 24 months away from totally going out of business. So all those black-owned businesses were going to have to leave anyway.

I'm not saying Kwame caused all the problems. But corruption drives away the one real solution that Detroit needs above all: Economic Growth. So although he didn't cause the problems...he made some big bets to cover his political behind...try to reduce suffering along the way, keep quality of life high on borrowed money, in hopes that a boom of businesses would be able to keep it all afloat.

It never came. And now we're paying off the gambling debt along with loss of credit, character assassination, political credibility, etc.

Those things aren't as sexy as "quality of life". But in the long run, you can't compromise that stuff and still expect the money to keep flowing.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.