Wal-Mart wants to open store in Southfield [Voted Down by Sfld Council]

Looks like this isn't quite a done deal yet. Seems like there will be considerable community pushback in Southfield, certainly for the chosen site. I wonder why Wal-Mart, to date, has not explored any urban Detroit locations.

Taking into account the various abandoned former industrial and retail sites, there would seemingly be a lot more land parcels to explore, especially if the intent is to build one of those huge supercenters—supposedly, the potential site in Southfield would have to be scaled down in comparison.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/20...house-of-goods

They should buy the Hotel Charlevoix and put a store on the ground floor and give free rent to indentured servants they can get from abroad. Of course, they'll have to buy everything on credit. Hahahahah [[Not that Americans don't still buy a lot on credit even if non-student loan debt has decreased).

I do not understand why people keep asking why major retailers won't open stores in Detroit. The Answer: They do not want to open stores in Detroit. There were major retail and grocery stores all over Detroit. It should be no mystery to anyone why they have all left and have not returned. They have not returned for the same reason that there are no malls, Sears, Kmart, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco, Penney's, Meijer's, Kroger, or Target, etc., etc, etc in Detroit. I think every person here already knows what the reason is. If you don't know you must have been living under a rock. The same reason why there are no major retail in Detroit is the same reason Wal-Mart is more than likely not exploring Detroit locations. I don't need to go into the reason because at least one-half of the posts here have already discussed this topic to death. Why do you think people are jumping up and down and acting like the opening of a Buffalo Wild Wings is tantamount to the second coming?

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

There is a reason whey there are no malls, Sears, Kmart, Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco, Penney's, Meijer's, Kroger, or Target, etc., etc, etc and I think every person here already knows what the reason is.

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Because they'll still get Detroiters money without having to open a store in Detroit.

Twelve Mile and Southfield is already very congested. Some traffic planning would be required.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Because they'll still get Detroiters money without having to open a store in Detroit.

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It's a win-win for these retailers from a business perspective.

They're able to reap the benefits of Detroit's dollars without incurring the risk of investing in Detroit.

If Detroiters want retailers to open in the city, stop robbing the retailers blind and demand that the city increase fire/police protection [[both of which will never happen in my lifetime the way things are going).

Tax breaks will only keep them for so long until Meijer and Whole Foods realize hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise is marching out of the door so often while the police won't even show up to catch the thieves.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

It's a win-win for these retailers from a business perspective.

They're able to reap the benefits of Detroit's dollars without incurring the risk of investing in Detroit.

If Detroiters want retailers to open in the city, stop robbing the retailers blind and demand that the city increase fire/police protection [[both of which will never happen in my lifetime the way things are going).

Tax breaks will only keep them for so long until Meijer and Whole Foods realize hundreds of dollars worth of merchandise is marching out of the door so often while the police won't even show up to catch the thieves.

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I think you're a bit misguided. Home Depot has somehow made it work in Detroit for like a decade now, and it was at one point the most profitable location in Michigan.

The simple reason that retailers don't locate in Detroit is because they don't need to in order to get Detroit's money. There is not a single Meijer, Kroger, Wal Mart, Target or Macy's in the city of Detroit. But I dare you to find a Detroit resident who hasn't shopped at one of those stores in the past month.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think you're a bit misguided. Home Depot has somehow made it work in Detroit for like a decade now, and it was at one point the most profitable location in Michigan.

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THAT Home Depot is a bit unique where...

1. It is the only home improvement store in at least a several-mile radius [[Home Depot closed the Northland store after opening the 7 Mile/Meyers location).

2. It's near several relatively wealthy neighborhoods.

3. It sells goods that don't shrink as fast. Good luck walking a toilet or plywood out the door without getting caught [[and why would someone want to snatch those items up and steal them?).

On the flip-side, take Eastland's Target which boasted the highest shrinkage rate of all stores in the country. The folks in Minneapolis have debated over to over again about closing that store.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

THAT Home Depot is a bit unique where...

1. It is the only home improvement store in at least a several-mile radius [[Home Depot closed the Northland store after opening the 7 Mile/Meyers location).

2. It's near several relatively wealthy neighborhoods.

3. It sells goods that don't shrink as fast. Good luck walking a toilet or plywood out the door without getting caught [[and why would someone want to snatch those items up and steal them?).

On the flip-side, take Eastland's Target which boasted the highest shrinkage rate of all stores in the country. The folks in Minneapolis have debated over to over again about closing that store.

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Eastland is not in Detroit.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Eastland is not in Detroit.

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Oh please. Who do you think the stores in Eastland cater to? People in Grosse Pointe?

Even sticking with the "Eastland is not in Detroit" line, how do you explain the 7 Mile/Gratiot Kroger or Bel-Air Centre [[which BTW also had a Target that closed for whatever reason)?

And even if you ignore the shrinkage problem and poor police response time, don't forget the ridiculous insurance rates these businesses must incur because the insurance companies see how piss poor the DPD/DFD are right now.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Oh please. Who do you think the stores in Eastland cater to? People in Grosse Pointe?

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So when Target closes its Eastland store people from Detroit will suddenly stop shopping at Target? I don't get your point.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

So when Target closes its Eastland store people from Detroit will suddenly stop shopping at Target? I don't get your point.

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I also don't understand why you seem to think just because it's in Harper Woods, it's automatically immune from Detroiters who can simply cross Kelly Road and also rob the place blind, especially given that it's directly across from what is now deemed the poorest zip code in the state/city, and arguably the country.

Last I heard that they were looking at buying the lost where that abandoned hotel is on 9 mile.

Detroit has a Kmart on Telegraph and 8mile. What they don't have is security!

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/19...rth-of-jewelry

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Originally Posted by 313WX

I also don't understand why you seem to think just because it's in Harper Woods, it's automatically immune from Detroiters who can simply cross Kelly Road and also rob the place blind, especially given that it's directly across from what is now deemed the poorest zip code in the state/city, and arguably the country.

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Would that Zip Code happen to be 48205?

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

Would that Zip Code happen to be 48205?

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You would be correct.

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Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Twelve Mile and Southfield is already very congested. Some traffic planning would be required.

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I was one of several dozen people who spoke to the city planning commission against the redevelopment of that corner into a WalMart, and that was my biggest complaint. 12 Mile/Southfield is one of the most congested intersections in Oakland County. During morning and afternoon rush hour, it can take several cycles of the traffic lights to get through, especially on 12 Mile. Adding a retail development of that size to the corner would be a nightmare. WalMart offered to pay for computerized traffic lights to be installed as a part of the development, but I don't think that's going to solve the traffic problem.

Then, there's the light pollution, noise pollution and other issues associated with a development that big. It would be bad for the residential neighborhoods immediately adjacent to the property.

WalMart also said that it would be paying about $300,000 in annual taxes on the property, compared to the zero-tax status the property now has. But City Council member Joan Seymour pointed out that the city would only get about $100,000 of that, which would be just sufficient to hire exactly one new police officer. I suspect that the added traffic and crime that a development like this would surely bring is more than one cop would be reasonably expected to handle.

There's a church in Detroit that had been negotiating with the Archdiocese of Detroit to buy the property and use the existing church building there [[the former St. Bede's) as a new home to the congregation; the building has been unused since 2007 and is becoming an eyesore. According to the people from the Detroit church, negotiations were proceeding until the offer got yanked off the table when WalMart stepped in.

There had also been a discussion of a charter school taking over the property. One of the lamebrains on the city planning commission said, preposterously that even a charter school would cause noise and traffic problems in the area, so why would it be so bad for a WalMart to be there?

Despite the very vocal opposition to the proposed development [[the meeting started at around 6:30 p.m., IIRC, and they were still going strong when I left at midnight), the commission voted 5-1 to recommend to City Council that the proposal be approved.

I don't choose to shop at WalMart myself, but I don't have a problem if others choose to shop there. I don't have a problem with them locating in Southfield, either, but I think that particular intersection is the wrong place for the development. I think there are other parts of the city, especially in or near Northland, where such a development would be a better fit.

Agh, the Planning Commission. Is Roy Bell still on that? He was the only one who had any sense when we were working with them over some new houses being added to a wetland behind us. At least we will get some traction with City Council, I hope.

Bell was the lone dissenter.

http://www.candgnews.com/news/planni...ion-southfield

Good for Roy.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think you're a bit misguided. Home Depot has somehow made it work in Detroit for like a decade now, and it was at one point the most profitable location in Michigan.

The simple reason that retailers don't locate in Detroit is because they don't need to in order to get Detroit's money. There is not a single Meijer, Kroger, Wal Mart, Target or Macy's in the city of Detroit. But I dare you to find a Detroit resident who hasn't shopped at one of those stores in the past month.

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That's about to change with Meijer's opening stores at 8 Mile and Woodward and 6 Mile and Grand River, on the old Redford High School site.

There is not a single Meijer, Kroger, Wal Mart, Target or Macy's in the city of Detroit. But I dare you to find a Detroit resident who hasn't shopped at one of those stores in the past month.[/QUOTE]
I'm a Detroit resident who hasn't shopped at any of those stores in at least a year. Macy's I've never shopped at, and as for Sprawl-Mart, well, I wouldn't set foot in there if they opened one right down the street from me.

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

Why do you think people are jumping up and down and acting like the opening of a Buffalo Wild Wings is tantamount to the second coming?

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Wow! You must have been there opening night like I was. I sat at the bar and drank myself silly. Then is saw Jesus and he asked me if I tried the fire hot wings! Did he ask you that too?

Crime is your real answer. The criminals know they can go into the stores, take what they want and by the time the cops come they are long gone. I feel sorry for not only the small business owners but to those who live in the City but not real close to a suburb that has these things.

I used to work loss prevention at Kmart a long time ago. It isn't police response time that deters theft. Even in the suburbs if the criminals are out the door, they're as good as gone.

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

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Except it happens with much more frequency in Detroit. These companies are here to make money. If there was money to be made in Detroit they would go there.

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

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Are you serious? Did you see the link in my post above? Kmart in Detroit was robbed by using bolt cutters to remove a display case with $24,000.00 in jewelry. That can only happen in Detroit!! Put your race card back in the deck and smell the coffee.

The irony, is, indeed that millions of Detroiters' dollars [[law abiding folks which make up the majority of the citizens of the city) get spent outside the city because the retailers won't locate in the city.

I mean, I try to shop in the city as much as possible and know of all the spots. However it's impossible not to make a monthly Target or Meijer run. Where the hell else am I supposed to go? I live on the eastside, I'm not going to drive 45 minutes to 7 and Telegraph to go to Kmart.

Obviously they have very good reason for not locating in the city. The criminals know that they have the run of the show here. How do all the drugstores make it work, then? Just because they're smaller, easier to keep watch over? There is a CVS in every corner of the 'hood. The big boxes could make some money if they would adapt.

Wait, I just got a message on my phone that Southfield City Council will be hearing this on Tuesday, January 28. Apparently they discussed it at Committee of the Whole today.

http://www.hometownlife.com/article/...sey=nav%7Chead

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Originally Posted by poobert

There is a CVS in every corner of the 'hood. .

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How many of them have been crashed into with folks trying to steal the ATM?

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Originally Posted by jackie5275

How many of them have been crashed into with folks trying to steal the ATM?

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All? I'd say all.

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Originally Posted by Vic_doucette

WalMart also said that it would be paying about $300,000 in annual taxes on the property, compared to the zero-tax status the property now has. But City Council member Joan Seymour pointed out that the city would only get about $100,000 of that, which would be just sufficient to hire exactly one new police officer. I suspect that the added traffic and crime that a development like this would surely bring is more than one cop would be reasonably expected to handle.

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So what is the incentive for the city council to approve the proposal? At $100K in taxes they won't even fund the additional city services they'll require. [[Also, what happens to the other $200K?)
Previously it has been shown in countless other instances that WalMarts run local shops out of business. So that will cause a corresponding loss of tax revenue and increase in empty storefronts.

How was it that the city council felt this arrangement would benefit their city / constituants?

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Originally Posted by poobert

How do all the drugstores make it work, then? Just because they're smaller, easier to keep watch over? There is a CVS in every corner of the 'hood.

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That, and the fact that 2/3 of the profit margin for CVS/WAlgreens/Rite-Aid comes from prescription drugs. Poor people have their prescriptions paid for entirely by the government [[Medicaid).

Getting beyond the lack of national retailers in the city, people also tend to harp on about supporting the small businesses in the city.

Are you kidding me? Other than a few exception, most of the businesses in the city aren't well kept, the employees are rude/non-chalant and the product selection is mediocre at best.

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

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The theft\shrinkage issue is not a race issue, it's an economic issue. Detroit is economically much worse off, which is one of several reasons why the crime rate is so high.

To pretend like Detroit doesn't have higher crime and worse police response times is just foolish.

You can't cry racism on this one, no one is trying to say this is a race issue. It's a theft issue. Look at the news, you hear about gas stations getting robbed for the 4th time in a two-week period. Tax-cab drivers getting killed over trivial amounts of cash.

People, regardless of race, are fleeing Detroit because of these issues. For some of the very same reasons businesses do not want to setup in Detroit, especially outside of the designated safe-zones of Downtown and Midtown.

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Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

So what is the incentive for the city council to approve the proposal? At $100K in taxes they won't even fund the additional city services they'll require. [[Also, what happens to the other $200K?)
Previously it has been shown in countless other instances that WalMarts run local shops out of business. So that will cause a corresponding loss of tax revenue and increase in empty storefronts.

How was it that the city council felt this arrangement would benefit their city / constituants?

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1. The church property has been essentially abandoned since 2007. There are a couple of small nonprofits using a bit of it, but I call it maybe 15% at most. The property paid no taxes as a church and pays no taxes now. The other money is for other taxes that won't be paid to the city.

2. There are a couple of "underperforming" strip malls [[quote marks used ironically) just to the north of the church along the west side of Southfield Road that would also be taken out as part of the redevelopment.

3. About 300 jobs, most paying minimum wage, few with benefits, quite unlikely to be taken by Southfield residents.

4. Possible unreported incentives, like the one former council member William Lattimore got from Sam Riddle and Mary Waters a few years ago. That one came with a nice trip to a minimum-security hotel in Indiana. It was much like the hotel Monica Conyers recently vacated.

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/in...y_council.html

No. 4 is unkind speculation on my part, of course. But WalMart will spend what it takes to get what it wants, and it threw all sorts of bribes around in Mexico:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...,6173032.story

This would be a disaster for Southfield, and I really hope they reconsider. I guess their residential property values aren't quite low enough?

First, the traffic on Southfield Road is already ridiculous. It's so bad that it already hurts residential property values, and I'm guessing many businesses are affected [[yes, I know that more traffic is usually good for businesses, but not stop-and-go mayhem off the freeway every afternoon).

Second, there's no need for this, and it will just canibalize existing stores. You already have Target and Meijer, and that area isn't growing, so you're just spinning wheels in terms of money spent in the community.

Third, Walmart, for whatever reason, attracts a trashy crowd. The last thing Southfield needs is the thugs & redneck crowd that appears to infest every inner suburban Walmart [[see Troy Walmart, Livonia Walmart, Sterling Heights Walmart). Watch the arrests pile up, like at Troy Walmart.

Fourth, this is a small site. This is not your normal big-box mega-site. It's a fairly tight site, and adjacent to residential neighborhoods that already get plenty of rush-hour cut-throughs.

The number one source of shrinkage is employee theft. http://www.securitymanagement.com/ne...america-009137 "Customer theft, including shoplifting and organized retail crime [[ORC), was the main cause of shrinkage in most countries, costing retailers $51.5 billion in 2011. In North America, however, dishonest employees were the largest source, accounting for 44 percent of retail shrink -- $47 billion in shrinkage compared to $37.8 billion in 2010. The second largest source of retail shrink came from shoplifting and ORC. The shrinkage rate in North America rose by six percent in 2011." Maybe the part time employee to save money strategy is not so good. " Bamfield said in past research he’s found that there is a positive relationship between employee theft and the use of seasonal or part-time workers. “Many are part time or short term and [working retail] until something else turns up,” he said. In many cases these people have less vested in the company and may not feel bad about swiping merchandise..."

The St. Bede site is too small for WalMart, true, but there has been referenced adding in struggling strip malls. The most likely one is north of St. Bede and has a bagel shop and House of Watchbands among other shops around the corner. The north side of that strip mall does struggle, but the front side does just fine. Farther north is Home Depot and then Target, both of which draw considerable traffic. It would not make sense to add the west side of Southfield, because at that point, Southfield Road is more of a barrier, and could not be readily crossed to access the other side. Would they put more lights? There are already two lights north of that corner, creating a start and stop irritation on the way between 12 and 13 Mile.

I am pretty sure at least three of the council members will be solid NO votes, we just need to get four on board to defeat the plan.

It would make a lot more sense for the region, IMHO, to put Walmart at 8 Mile and Beech.

Like most problems in our society there's more to it than somebody in the hood coming into the store and stuffing everything inside there coat and getting away before the police can come. Now that does happen but that's not the reason why big box stores don't locate in the hood. Employee theft is just as great if not greater problem than traditional shoplifting. Studies have shown that employee theft is responsible for 48% of all shrinkage with 60% to 80% of that shrinkage happening at the front end registers. Stores struggle more containing the internal theft than the traditional shoplifter. And since many if not most of the employees will come from the hood where the store is located they don't want to invest in places like Detroit

National retailers pay zero attention to our issues. They look at statistics.

If you want to change the actions of a national chain, change the reality on the ground.

I would suspect that the planning people at Wal-Mart haven't even noticed that they're not in Detroit. They're too busy successfully delivering the fruits of global economic trade to their public to care about our squabbles.

They'll be in Detroit just as soon as Detroit is a stable and profitable place to do business.

Sometimes the simplest answer is right. Wouldn't surprise me if Wal-Mart tried to contact Detroit's building department to ask a question, and didn't get a return call. Just about then, the Southfield building department called back.

When I worked at Kmart there was a woman working the service desk who would do returns. She would buy a bunch of merchandise and then on her next shift, take the reciept and process a return. The thing is, she never returned the merchandise and just pocketed the cash. The kicker is, she used her employee discount to buy all the merchandise.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

When I worked at Kmart there was a woman working the service desk who would do returns. She would buy a bunch of merchandise and then on her next shift, take the reciept and process a return. The thing is, she never returned the merchandise and just pocketed the cash. The kicker is, she used her employee discount to buy all the merchandise.

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Did you report her? Or remain silent?

Walmart got its start putting stores into low income rural towns. It was only since the 1990s that they began moving from the small towns and rural areas into the burbs. Moving into the cities isn't on their radar at this time. There is less shrinkage in low income rural than there is in low income inner-cities.

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

Did you report her? Or remain silent?

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Yes. I was the loss prevention guy. We had to make sure we had enough evidence against her and pressed charges. She ended up getting a slap on the wrist because she was 22 and had 5 kids. After she was fired, her mother and sister continued to shop there.

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Originally Posted by gazhekwe

The St. Bede site is too small for WalMart, true, but there has been referenced adding in struggling strip malls. The most likely one is north of St. Bede and has a bagel shop and House of Watchbands among other shops around the corner. The north side of that strip mall does struggle, but the front side does just fine. Farther north is Home Depot and then Target, both of which draw considerable traffic. It would not make sense to add the west side of Southfield, because at that point, Southfield Road is more of a barrier, and could not be readily crossed to access the other side. Would they put more lights? There are already two lights north of that corner, creating a start and stop irritation on the way between 12 and 13 Mile.

I am pretty sure at least three of the council members will be solid NO votes, we just need to get four on board to defeat the plan.

It would make a lot more sense for the region, IMHO, to put Walmart at 8 Mile and Beech.

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Very informative article. You seem to know a lot about Southfield, do you live there?

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Originally Posted by 48091

The theft\shrinkage issue is not a race issue, it's an economic issue. Detroit is economically much worse off, which is one of several reasons why the crime rate is so high.

To pretend like Detroit doesn't have higher crime and worse police response times is just foolish.

You can't cry racism on this one, no one is trying to say this is a race issue. It's a theft issue. Look at the news, you hear about gas stations getting robbed for the 4th time in a two-week period. Tax-cab drivers getting killed over trivial amounts of cash.

People, regardless of race, are fleeing Detroit because of these issues. For some of the very same reasons businesses do not want to setup in Detroit, especially outside of the designated safe-zones of Downtown and Midtown.

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Another good post. That's 2 in a row :)

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Originally Posted by gazhekwe

It would make a lot more sense for the region, IMHO, to put Walmart at 8 Mile and Beech.

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One of the 1st KMarts was at that corner. In later years, it was one of the shabbiest in the country. Customers trashed the store and robberies in parking lot were common. Southfield PD was very happy KMart closed that store to move onto Telegraph near 8 Mile. Recall how Livonia contested the new WalMart by Wonderland because the store by Schoolcraft/Middlebelt was so dirty and trouble prone?

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Originally Posted by Hermod

Moving into the cities isn't on their radar at this time

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That's completely false. Wal Mart has already built in Chicago and Baltimore. Wal Mart has been trying to build in NYC for a decade but they're being blocked by the activists... So they settled for a location right on the Queens/Nassau County border to attract as many Queens and Brooklyn residents as possible. And that Wal Mart is as ghetto as any Target or K Mart in an inner ring suburb of Detroit -- it's the same Wal Mart where the security guard was killed in the stampede on Black Friday several years ago.

Now, the real question is why does Wal Mart want to build in New York but not in Detroit? I know the knee jerk response is that New York residents have more disposable income than Detroit residents. While that stat is "true", it's not the reason. The likely Wal Mart shoppers in New York really aren't all that demographically different than the ones who live in Detroit. Hedge fund traders living in Manhattan aren't shopping at Wal Mart. Trustafarian hipsters living in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, aren't shopping at Wal Mart. Working class residents in the Bronx, outer Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island are the potential Wal Mart shoppers and many of these people look a lot like potential Wal Mart shoppers who live in Detroit.

Okay, so still, why does Wal Mart want to be in New York but not in Detroit, if it's targeting the same types of people, which both cities have in abundance? The difference is that most New Yorkers of any demographics will not leave the borders of New York City to shop. Doesn't matter if they live in the worst ghetto of the Bronx or the most posh area of Manhattan. Most New Yorkers spend their money within New York City. Most Detroiters spend most of their money outside of the city of Detroit. Wal Mart does not have to build in Detroit because Detroiters will shop there regardless. If Wal Mart was missing a Detroit dollar then they'd be building in the city next week.

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Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I am pretty sure at least three of the council members will be solid NO votes, we just need to get four on board to defeat the plan.

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How do you think the votes will line up? I don't know enough about Southfield City Council to have an educated opinion about it.

I hear you... IMO, withstanding Home Depot, is a not 'either/or' thing, it's 'both/and'

Big retailers can relocated out of the city with reduced risk and Detroiter's will still shop at their suburban locales.

The Kmart before on seven mile was pure hell at the end. A school teacher was murdered in the parking lot. There were robberies and who knows what in terms of the five-finger discount [[shrink factor)!

It will be interesting how things work out with HF and Meijers.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think you're a bit misguided. Home Depot has somehow made it work in Detroit for like a decade now, and it was at one point the most profitable location in Michigan.

The simple reason that retailers don't locate in Detroit is because they don't need to in order to get Detroit's money. There is not a single Meijer, Kroger, Wal Mart, Target or Macy's in the city of Detroit. But I dare you to find a Detroit resident who hasn't shopped at one of those stores in the past month.

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I'm just glad I don't work in retail anymore. That was back in the early 90's and I saw alot of theft then. Shopping, I'm in and out of several stores in the city including Dollar General, Family Dollar, CVS etc.

Theft is incredible and growing. The CVS near me gets hit alot. The Dollar General up on Woodward near Clairmont puts all expensive meds and make up behind the counters. They have an alert blaring when you walk in that 'you-are-being-monitored [[for your protection)'. Sensor tags and sensor monitors on all doors.

There's an underground market for folks stealing stuff for resale. Some CVS and RiteAids have items such as the better body wash etc. behind clear sliding shelf shields that make a loud grating sound to alert security that the product is being remove, so they can see if the item eventually makes it to cash-register.

More expensive items are behind glass all the way. Ground Coffee and Tide and other expensive brands of detergent, baby formula etc. is kept behind the counters or sensors have to be applied.

The latest I noticed was ground coffee tops 'only' on the shelves. If you want the coffee you bring up the tops then get your container with the foil seal and they put the top on as they ring the item up. Some stores ask you to have their security staff hold your items you bring in while you shop. Insane!

Law abiding citizens put up with this daily, non-chalantly. You just get fatigued of seeing all these heroics to keep down the theft which is happening on the employee side too.

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

barely-veiled racism is behind the constant carping about "shrinkage".. theft can happen "anywhere"..

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Cinti Kid, I do live in Southfield. Vic, I believe Ken Siver, Joan Seymour and Myron Frazier would likely be no votes. On the fence about Sylvia Jordan and Sid Lantz. I don't know Jeremy Moss and believe Don Fracassi would be a yes vote.

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Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Cinti Kid, I do live in Southfield. Vic, I believe Ken Siver, Joan Seymour and Myron Frazier would likely be no votes. On the fence about Sylvia Jordan and Sid Lantz. I don't know Jeremy Moss and believe Don Fracassi would be a yes vote.

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Moss came through my neighborhood with 46th District Court wannabe Bill Seikaly one pre-election night when I was porch-sittin'. Both expressed interest in The Miracle League of Michigan and promised to show up at a game; Moss actually did. Seemed bright and earnest, but I can't read him much beyond that.

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Originally Posted by gazhekwe

I ... believe Don Fracassi would be a yes vote.

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Does he still own his market/party store on 12 Mile? I wonder if he thinks WalMart might hurt his business?

No Way! I been over that area around St. Bede's and that areas is just to small to build an EVIL WAL-MART! To fit that size its developers need to demolish a few small storefronts and half of Southfield's neighborhoods. I hope it wuld never happen, otherwise the mom and pop retail strips along Lathrup Village would dissapear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zacha341

I'm just glad I don't work in retail anymore. That was back in the early 90's and I saw alot of theft then. Shopping, I'm in and out of several stores in the city including Dollar General, Family Dollar, CVS etc.

Theft is incredible and growing. The CVS near me gets hit alot. The Dollar General up on Woodward near Clairmont puts all expensive meds and make up behind the counters. They have an alert blaring when you walk in that 'you-are-being-monitored [[for your protection)'. Sensor tags and sensor monitors on all doors.

There's an underground market for folks stealing stuff for resale. Some CVS and RiteAids have items such as the better body wash etc. behind clear sliding shelf shields that make a loud grating sound to alert security that the product is being remove, so they can see if the item eventually makes it to cash-register.

More expensive items are behind glass all the way. Ground Coffee and Tide and other expensive brands of detergent, baby formula etc. is kept behind the counters or sensors have to be applied.

The latest I noticed was ground coffee tops 'only' on the shelves. If you want the coffee you bring up the tops then get your container with the foil seal and they put the top on as they ring the item up. Some stores ask you to have their security staff hold your items you bring in while you shop. Insane!

Law abiding citizens put up with this daily, non-chalantly. You just get fatigued of seeing all these heroics to keep down the theft which is happening on the employee side too.

---

THOSE are incredible stories. Then people wonder why more businesses don't move into Detroit. It has to be costing companies money just to try to keep their doors open. These thieves don't seem to care that they're hurting their nieghborhoods. People here post nonsense that suburbanites "abandoned" Detroit. Who wants to continue living under those conditions?

I would love to see a Walmart in the strip mall at Jefferson and St Jean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stasu1213

I would love to see a Walmart in the strip mall at Jefferson and St Jean

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I would like to see ANYTHING in the strip mall @ Jefferson & St. Jean...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stasu1213

I would love to see a Walmart in the strip mall at Jefferson and St Jean

---

Kroger didn't even want to inherit the old Farmer Jack, so we can forget seeing a Wal-Mart over there.

In fact, there was a rumor that Home Depot and Meijer were scouting the land east of St. Jean and south of Jefferson for development. We see, 5-10 years later, how well that played out.

When its all said and done its not that the retailers want to stay away from Detroit, its the city's dirty little secret that keeps them away. Shrinkage is beyond what any major retailer can tolerate. Its what kept Kroger from taking over the Farmer Jack's in the Detroit and its what keeps almost everyone out, and now Whole Foods is about to get a very good idea why they are all by themselves here. And as mentioned they can get your money anyway where they are now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by p69rrh51

When its all said and done its not that the retailers want to stay away from Detroit, its the city's dirty little secret that keeps them away. Shrinkage is beyond what any major retailer can tolerate. Its what kept Kroger from taking over the Farmer Jack's in the Detroit and its what keeps almost everyone out, and now Whole Foods is about to get a very good idea why they are all by themselves here. And as mentioned they can get your money anyway where they are now.

---

On several occaisions, stolen vehicles were driven right through the store fronts and store contents removed. How desperate do you have to be to pull a stunt like that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Now, the real question is why does Wal Mart want to build in New York but not in Detroit?

---

Just to name a few reasons?

• Competent city government
• A professional, staffed, and responsive police force
• WAY lower crime rates
• Effective city services

NYC has these things, Detroit does not. It's the same reason why NYC's population has increased, while Detroit is America's fastest-shrinking city. The same basic factors that make a city an attractive place for people to live also make it attractive for business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Now, the real question is why does Wal Mart want to build in New York but not in Detroit?

---

New York City is not Detroit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zacha341

I'm just glad I don't work in retail anymore. That was back in the early 90's and I saw alot of theft then. Shopping, I'm in and out of several stores in the city including Dollar General, Family Dollar, CVS etc.

Theft is incredible and growing. The CVS near me gets hit alot. The Dollar General up on Woodward near Clairmont puts all expensive meds and make up behind the counters. They have an alert blaring when you walk in that 'you-are-being-monitored [[for your protection)'. Sensor tags and sensor monitors on all doors.

There's an underground market for folks stealing stuff for resale. Some CVS and RiteAids have items such as the better body wash etc. behind clear sliding shelf shields that make a loud grating sound to alert security that the product is being remove, so they can see if the item eventually makes it to cash-register.

More expensive items are behind glass all the way. Ground Coffee and Tide and other expensive brands of detergent, baby formula etc. is kept behind the counters or sensors have to be applied.

The latest I noticed was ground coffee tops 'only' on the shelves. If you want the coffee you bring up the tops then get your container with the foil seal and they put the top on as they ring the item up. Some stores ask you to have their security staff hold your items you bring in while you shop. Insane!

Law abiding citizens put up with this daily, non-chalantly. You just get fatigued of seeing all these heroics to keep down the theft which is happening on the employee side too.

---

baby formula has been locked up everywhere well back into the 80's. for those not aware, infant formula is the bonding agent in crack cocaine. it makes the 'crack rock'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aj3647

Just to name a few reasons?

• Competent city government
• A professional, staffed, and responsive police force
• WAY lower crime rates
• Effective city services

NYC has these things, Detroit does not. It's the same reason why NYC's population has increased, while Detroit is America's fastest-shrinking city. The same basic factors that make a city an attractive place for people to live also make it attractive for business.

---

Why Baltimore? Why the south side of Chicago?

ETA: Even New Orleans has a Wal Mart and the murder rate there is worse than Detroit.

New York is much better managed than Detroit. Dave Bing and council had done everthing in their power to make Detroit a less desirable place to live and do business with the exception of Midtown. There will probably be more police patrol around midtown when WholeFoods open. Sad to say that had not happened when YOBS and Lafayette Foods had opened their doors. I agree with P69. Some of the potential retail that want to open in Detroit had been shut out. Bing and company is no different than Kilpatrick and company. Maybe the Feds should investigate this administration also

That's true for certain. The ground coffee and Tide detergent are NEW entrants to the behind the counter scene. Crazy isn't it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hybridy

baby formula has been locked up everywhere well back into the 80's. for those not aware, infant formula is the bonding agent in crack cocaine. it makes the 'crack rock'

---

Hah! Too busy of an intersection as it is. They will not be getting my business.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danny

No Way! I been over that area around St. Bede's and that areas is just to small to build an EVIL WAL-MART! To fit that size its developers need to demolish a few small storefronts and half of Southfield's neighborhoods. I hope it wuld never happen, otherwise the mom and pop retail strips along Lathrup Village would dissapear.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by stasu1213

New York is much better managed than Detroit. Dave Bing and council had done everthing in their power to make Detroit a less desirable place to live and do business with the exception of Midtown. There will probably be more police patrol around midtown when WholeFoods open. Sad to say that had not happened when YOBS and Lafayette Foods had opened their doors. I agree with P69. Some of the potential retail that want to open in Detroit had been shut out. Bing and company is no different than Kilpatrick and company. Maybe the Feds should investigate this administration also

---

While I agree with you on Bing's administration being incompetent, to suggest that he's corrupted like KK is pure hyperbole.

[QUOTE=iheartthed;362234]

Now, the real question is why does Wal Mart want to build in New York but not in Detroit? I know the knee jerk response is that New York residents have more disposable income than Detroit residents. While that stat is "true", it's not the reason. The likely Wal Mart shoppers in New York really aren't all that demographically different than the ones who live in Detroit.

Okay, so still, why does Wal Mart want to be in New York but not in Detroit, if it's targeting the same types of people, which both cities have in abundance? The difference is that most New Yorkers of any demographics will not leave the borders of New York City to shop. Doesn't matter if they live in the worst ghetto of the Bronx or the most posh area of Manhattan. Most New Yorkers spend their money within New York City.


***************
I think this is a very accurate observation that gets at one of the frequent points of discussion on this forum- the freedom of the automobile vs. the freedom of public transit. Some people primarily see the freedom of the automobile that impacts our region- e.g. if you are going shopping by car [[whether your own car or riding with someone else, like a friend or family member), you will use your freedom to drive to the store/location/demographic that appeals to you. If a store is dirty, busy, not cool, or not filled with your bunch of cool people, you will often take a few more minutes to drive to the one that better suits how you feel. This also means that if a store [[or even its demographics) are not up to snuff [[in the eye of the shopper), people will go to a different store. Thus, a shopper from Highland Park could end up at the Walmart in South Livonia, North Livonia, Novi, Troy, Sterling Heights, or Commerce Township [[where I was shopping with my friend from Highland Park and ran into her brother who lived in the same house at the time, and unbeknownst to her, drove up there to go shopping as well). This individual freedom causes uncertainty and change in trade patterns, and points up the migration and abandonment in our region. It also fails to leverage the population effectively for transit, as everyone goes to unpredictable places in all directions to shop and go to work, and even worse, changes exactly where from year to year, making transit difficult to build and execute successfully. This may explain some of the criticism of this aspect of the region, because we have a lot of people, which could make transit viable, but our chosen behavior with automobiles to drive so randomly to shop, work, and visit friends, makes it hard to use full size buses on fixed routes, much less build a heavy rail subway.

Then, there is the other side of the coin, the internal stability and development often fostered by public transit, which helps build up the areas where it runs [[often in ways different from the development that occurs in an auto-centric lifestyle), and allows personal freedom by allowing movement without a car. Some people complain that the freedom of public transit gets short shrift in the region. There is freedom in having regular, reliable, frequent public transportation- that you can go places without a car, and accomplish most of your life without one. Although important in your city of residence, by going to work and shopping, this freedom is often experienced in travel, as this experience can be as expansive as a week in New York or Europe, or even a weekend in St. Louis where you can fly in, go downtown, and go back to the airport, all with public transportation. That is not to say transit is a panacea. It is expensive, requires a degree of stability and density [[or the ability to build density as the system is developed).

To point out the difference between NYC and Detroit, many people in NYC go where their Metrocard takes them. If they have a monthly pass, an extra trip costs nothing more. By comparison, going to Valley Stream on the LIRR [[commuter train that does not accept the Metrocard) to go to Walmart costs an extra $14.50 per person round trip from Penn Station. There are special cheaper weekend fares on commuter rail that only apply to trips entirely within the city, and not to Valley Stream. Going to NJ also costs extra. Such trips outside the city cost a lot more with public transit [[unless you spend hours transferring from bus to bus which you can do with a metro card, even in parts of LI and Westchester with a Metrocard), but the patterns of where you go with public transit apply to some extent during the weekend as well, even if you are taking a car or commuter rail. Thus, there is an incentive for WalMart or Target to get some stores in the city, preferably right off one of the Subway lines, like most of the Targets developed within the city.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rooms222

To point out the difference between NYC and Detroit, many people in NYC go where their Metrocard takes them. If they have a monthly pass, an extra trip costs nothing more. By comparison, going to Valley Stream on the LIRR [[commuter train that does not accept the Metrocard) to go to Walmart costs an extra $14.50 per person round trip from Penn Station. There are special cheaper weekend fares on commuter rail that only apply to trips entirely within the city, and not to Valley Stream. Going to NJ also costs extra. Such trips outside the city cost a lot more with public transit [[unless you spend hours transferring from bus to bus which you can do with a metro card, even in parts of LI and Westchester with a Metrocard), but the patterns of where you go with public transit apply to some extent during the weekend as well, even if you are taking a car or commuter rail. Thus, there is an incentive for WalMart or Target to get some stores in the city, preferably right off one of the Subway lines, like most of the Targets developed within the city.

---

I agree with what you say. Public transportation does have a way of keeping retail dollars local. But I would add that even among people in NYC who don't use public transportation, they tend to shop in NYC versus driving outside of NYC limits.

Walmart has locations in Philadelphia, Baltimore, New Orleans, Cleveland, Memphis, Atlanta. All of these cities have crime rates that rival Detroit's. So clearly Walmart doesn't have an aversion to areas of high crime. With the exception of Philadelphia, none of these cities have much in the way of rail transit either.

What I believe is that Detroiters have a culture of not spending money in Detroit so retailers don't really have to even bother trying to build conveniently for Detroit consumers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I agree with what you say. Public transportation does have a way of keeping retail dollars local. But I would add that even among people in NYC who don't use public transportation, they tend to shop in NYC versus driving outside of NYC limits.

Agree

What I believe is that Detroiters have a culture of not spending money in Detroit so retailers don't really have to even bother trying to build conveniently for Detroit consumers.

---

Yes, this happens even in the suburbs of Detroit. I have seen the general westward trend in shopping in the Western suburbs. When I lived in Redford, people started to stop going to the stores in Redford, first migrating to shopping on Middlebelt with the original Walmart & Meijer stores there around 2000, and now migrated out to Haggerty road and Novi. From what I could tell, many in Livonia would not shop nearest their home, but at the very least shop out along 275 and Haggerty, much of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by laphoque

They should buy the Hotel Charlevoix and put a store on the ground floor and give free rent to indentured servants they can get from abroad. Of course, they'll have to buy everything on credit. Hahahahah [[Not that Americans don't still buy a lot on credit even if non-student loan debt has decreased).

---

Funny thing... what's surprising is Wal-Mart has moved into some very complicated old historic buildings. But I'm also surprised they have moved into some pretty awful old buildings that I was shocked did not meet the wrecking ball.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8019/7...f421202e_z.jpg

Somebody was in front of the Southfield Public Library last night asking people to sign a petition in favor of bringing WalMart to the city. I'm not sure what the purpose was for this, but I impolitely declined.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I would like to see ANYTHING in the strip mall @ Jefferson & St. Jean...

---

I used to work in the halfway house across from that strip mall back in 2007. Even then the only thing missing was tumbleweeds. When the Farmer Jack closed it was all over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I would like to see ANYTHING in the strip mall @ Jefferson & St. Jean...

---

I used to work at the half-way house across from that strip mall back in 2007 even then the only thing missing was tunbleweeds. When the Farmer Jack left it was all over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rooms222

I think this is a very accurate observation that gets at one of the frequent points of discussion on this forum- the freedom of the automobile vs. the freedom of public transit. Some people primarily see the freedom of the automobile that impacts our region- e.g. if you are going shopping by car [[whether your own car or riding with someone else, like a friend or family member), you will use your freedom to drive to the store/location/demographic that appeals to you. If a store is dirty, busy, not cool, or not filled with your bunch of cool people, you will often take a few more minutes to drive to the one that better suits how you feel. This also means that if a store [[or even its demographics) are not up to snuff [[in the eye of the shopper), people will go to a different store. Thus, a shopper from Highland Park could end up at the Walmart in South Livonia, North Livonia, Novi, Troy, Sterling Heights, or Commerce Township [[where I was shopping with my friend from Highland Park and ran into her brother who lived in the same house at the time, and unbeknownst to her, drove up there to go shopping as well). This individual freedom causes uncertainty and change in trade patterns, and points up the migration and abandonment in our region. It also fails to leverage the population effectively for transit, as everyone goes to unpredictable places in all directions to shop and go to work, and even worse, changes exactly where from year to year, making transit difficult to build and execute successfully. This may explain some of the criticism of this aspect of the region, because we have a lot of people, which could make transit viable, but our chosen behavior with automobiles to drive so randomly to shop, work, and visit friends, makes it hard to use full size buses on fixed routes, much less build a heavy rail subway.

---

Bingo! The auto culture leads people to go shopping where it is most pleasant even if they have to go out of their way to do it. If a store in Mt Clemens tends to get "ghettoized", the shoppers in Mt Clemens will just go to the same store up on Gratiot and 23 Mile. Walmart knows that Detroit shoppers will go to a Walmart in the inner burbs, but shoppers in the inner burbs won't go to a Walmart in Detroit.

Here in Flroida, the Walmart closest to me [[about three miles) is very small and dirty [[the Port-au-Prince Walmart as it is affectionately known), but there are four [[soon to be five) Walmarts within a ten mile radius from me that i can patronize.

The JC Penney about a mile away cannot hold a candle to the JC Penney about 12 miles away.

Not being tied to public transit, I can exercise my freedom of choice.

Planning a truly integrated and successful transit system for SE Michigan will be complicated. It is not like New York where everybody wants to go downtown.

@Vic_Doucette, no Don Fracassi has been out of that store for many years. His son had it for awhile but they sold it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hermod

The JC Penney about a mile away cannot hold a candle to the JC Penney about 12 miles away.

Not being tied to public transit, I can exercise my freedom of choice.

Planning a truly integrated and successful transit system for SE Michigan will be complicated. It is not like New York where everybody wants to go downtown.

---

Your freedom is an illusion.

If JCPenney won't properly maintain the store in your neighborhood then why would you drive 30 minutes out of your way to spend your money with that company in a place where the tax dollars won't even benefit your community?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hermod

Bingo! The auto culture leads people to go shopping where it is most pleasant even if they have to go out of their way to do it. If a store in Mt Clemens tends to get "ghettoized", the shoppers in Mt Clemens will just go to the same store up on Gratiot and 23 Mile. Walmart knows that Detroit shoppers will go to a Walmart in the inner burbs, but shoppers in the inner burbs won't go to a Walmart in Detroit.

Here in Flroida, the Walmart closest to me [[about three miles) is very small and dirty [[the Port-au-Prince Walmart as it is affectionately known), but there are four [[soon to be five) Walmarts within a ten mile radius from me that i can patronize.

The JC Penney about a mile away cannot hold a candle to the JC Penney about 12 miles away.

Not being tied to public transit, I can exercise my freedom of choice.

Planning a truly integrated and successful transit system for SE Michigan will be complicated. It is not like New York where everybody wants to go downtown.

---

There is no "downtown" in NYC, that is what is so great about it and what a great transit system has done for that city.

Why does a post about Walmart [[A company killing the American dream) wanting to open a store in a Southfield [[a major player in the downfall of Detroit) get four pages of comments? I understand that most of those comments were regarding the lack of retail in Detroit, but I've only been reading this site for a few months and have seen that topic discussed numerous times on other threads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Islandman

There is no "downtown" in NYC, that is what is so great about it and what a great transit system has done for that city.

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Really? No downtown in NYC? Could have fooled me.

Is Manhattan a figment of my imagination?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ArmDetroit

Why does a post about Walmart [[A company killing the American dream) wanting to open a store in a Southfield [[a major player in the downfall of Detroit) get four pages of comments?

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Because this is DetroitYes, and Southfield, last I checked, is part of Detroit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Really? No downtown in NYC? Could have fooled me.

Is Manhattan a figment of my imagination?

---

Is Manhattan downtown NYC in your imagination?

Walmart have been sniffing around Australia, so far no plans, they would find it tough.

Costco opened in 09', have 3 stores here, and building more

In Australia its really a 2 horse race, Coles and Woolworths, they are a duopoly and screw so much money out of the population and are bastards to deal with, they are into every retail field

Cheers

I got this telephone message today:

"Rainbow Force this Monday January twenty first for prayer vigil for the stop gun violence in honor of Doctor Martin Luther King Junior Day. The vigil will be held at the corner of Twelve Mile and Southfield at the former site of Saint Bede's Church and the proposed side of the future Walmart. Stand with us against gun violence and to oppose business practices of Walmart which is the number one seller of guns in America. The vigil will be at five pm and will be outside. So please dress accordingly."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Because this is DetroitYes, and Southfield, last I checked, is part of Detroit.

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So you're saying that part of the DetroitYes mission is keep tabs on Walmart? Don't quote me on this but I highly doubt that the Walmart that opened in Canton two years ago got it's own thread; much less a four page one. And going by your idea of Detroit, Canton is as much "a part of Detroit" as Southfield.

I'm not knocking anybody on this site but there are A LOT better things happening in and around Detroit than the POSSIBILITY of a new Walmart.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...-Redevelopment

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

While there are a number of Rosey Senario folks on DYES, I often think that most people here like to complain more than comment on positive developments. There is no shortage of moaning about the impending tear down of the Charlevoix Hotel, and yet the renovation of six historic apartment buildings in the New Center does not elicit any comments, other than someone starting an additional [[also commentless) thread on the same subject.

Why don't we celebrate the progress a bit more?

---

The same applies here. Celebrate REAL progress, not Walmarts global takeover.

Apparently people are interested in what goes on outside of the city limits. If there is so much going on in Detroit, then start a thread about it.

I also guess I can't post here since I live outside the city limits in one of those evil suburbs that ruined Detroit by offering safe streets and working lights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shollin

Apparently people are interested in what goes on outside of the city limits. If there is so much going on in Detroit, then start a thread about it.

I also guess I can't post here since I live outside the city limits in one of those evil suburbs that ruined Detroit by offering safe streets and working lights.

---

I guess I shouldn't be posting here either since I abandoned not only the city but the entire state after living in Detroit for 64 years.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Your freedom is an illusion.

If JCPenney won't properly maintain the store in your neighborhood then why would you drive 30 minutes out of your way to spend your money with that company in a place where the tax dollars won't even benefit your community?

---

The same reason people in Grosse pointe go to the Target in Clinton Township instead of the one next door in Harper Woods -- perceived safety.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eastland

The same reason people in Grosse pointe go to the Target in Clinton Township instead of the one next door in Harper Woods -- perceived safety.

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It isn't perceived. Car jackings and shootings are becoming more common at Eastland. Speaking of Eastland shootings, I just read how Grosse Pointe police had to help break up a brawl at a Harper Woods court during a trial of a 2010 Eastland murder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shollin

Apparently people are interested in what goes on outside of the city limits. If there is so much going on in Detroit, then start a thread about it.

I also guess I can't post here since I live outside the city limits in one of those evil suburbs that ruined Detroit by offering safe streets and working lights.

---

You sure do get defensive don't you buddy? I understand that this site is about the entire metro area [[Windsor included), so discussion of upcoming development is expected. I simply don't understand the four pages worth about a fucking Walmart.

Don't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions assuming that my beef with Southfield is about safe streets and working street lights [[typical suburban talking point). I was referring to the Southfield Town Center which was constructed with every intent to steer companies away from Detroits business district. The results of which left a desolate, mostly empty downtown Detroit through the 90's up until the recent revival of the past few years.

I have no problem with the suburbs, I was raised in Westland. Though over the years I've noticed that a lot of you eastsiders are some uptight, finger pointing, holier than thou, all around nasty people.

AD, when Town Center was built, businesses were already flowing out of Detroit. Southfield was interested in capturing some of the overflow. Troy also grew steadily for the same reason. Detroit's problem was that businesses were leaving. The solution at the time was to build the Renaissance Center, a fortress that did not encourage downtown development.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ArmDetroit

You sure do get defensive don't you buddy? I understand that this site is about the entire metro area [[Windsor included), so discussion of upcoming development is expected. I simply don't understand the four pages worth about a fucking Walmart.

Don't hurt yourself jumping to conclusions assuming that my beef with Southfield is about safe streets and working street lights [[typical suburban talking point). I was referring to the Southfield Town Center which was constructed with every intent to steer companies away from Detroits business district. The results of which left a desolate, mostly empty downtown Detroit through the 90's up until the recent revival of the past few years.

I have no problem with the suburbs, I was raised in Westland. Though over the years I've noticed that a lot of you eastsiders are some uptight, finger pointing, holier than thou, all around nasty people.

---

Ok so Walmart got four pages of posts. A wing joint that's opening downtown got six pages of posts. What exactly is your point?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ArmDetroit

there are A LOT better things happening in and around Detroit than the POSSIBILITY of a new Walmart.

http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...-Redevelopment


The same applies here. Celebrate REAL progress, not Walmarts global takeover.

---

Gee. I thought my opposition to WalMart was obvious. I thought the others who didn't like the idea of a huge shopping plaza at an intersection that was already very busy and dangerous were obvious. Maybe we needed to explain ourselves better. Or maybe you need to read ALL the words.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vic_doucette

Gee. I thought my opposition to WalMart was obvious. I thought the others who didn't like the idea of a huge shopping plaza at an intersection that was already very busy and dangerous were obvious. Maybe we needed to explain ourselves better. Or maybe you need to read ALL the words.

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Opposition to any Walmart located anywhere is a normal knee-jerk political reaction. Many of the people dreaming up opposition to a Walmart in Southfield [[traffic, near schools, wetlands on site, habitat of the seven-toed orange frog, light pollution, etc) would be creaming in their pants at the idea of Costco wanting to build on the same site.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Your freedom is an illusion.

If JCPenney won't properly maintain the store in your neighborhood then why would you drive 30 minutes out of your way to spend your money with that company in a place where the tax dollars won't even benefit your community?

---

The problem in Fla is the immigration from other countries tends to congregate in a certain section ,that section after awhile begins to resemble where they came from in all aspects,so your choice is either learn another language,or deal with living in a situation that most would not .

Try going into a CVS where nobody speaks English and see how long it is before you choose a different location,I relocated because it became tiring emailing corporations and asking them to post notices on the front door referring to who their customer should be.Kinda hard to support local in those conditions.I agree with your post ,just a little explanation as to why things are as they are.

Costco on the same site, NO we would not want that for the same reason, traffic is already an issue at that corner. Until they come up with a way to deal with the traffic, the site needs to stay relatively low usage. A School, A church, both of which have expressed interest, would be better. Let one or both in, and meantime, work on the traffic situation so a more profitable use can be addressed in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

Ok so Walmart got four pages of posts. A wing joint that's opening downtown got six pages of posts. What exactly is your point?

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Settle down and drink your metamucil with a slice of warm toast Ms. "I abandoned the city after 64 years".

A wing joint opening downtown isn't going to force other businesses in the community to close.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ArmDetroit

A wing joint opening downtown isn't going to force other businesses in the community to close.

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Tell that to the Ham Shop across Monroe.