Where does Detroit rank?

Attachment 16220
I think that Detroit is still considered a major city. Now, I don't say major in comparison to NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, San Francisco, or Los Angeles. I say major because we are talked about more so than other cities who are have a large or similar size population, like Cincinnati, Cleveland, Charlotte, San Diego, Houston, or even Philly.

We have the all the professional sports franchises.
We have several entities that we are identified for: Automobiles and Motown. And once ranked the world's largest corporation General Motors and again the largest automobile manufacturer is headquartered here.
We have a rich history where we were once the fifth largest city and so on.
We have a bad reputation which keeps us in the spotlight and many media outlets questioning our comeback.
We have a number of nationally televised events, like the Thanksgiving parade, hydroplane boat race, car race on Belle Isle
We have the Detroit Jazz Fest and Electronic Music Fest which are both well known.

I might be wrong, but I think nationally people will mention Detroit even before some larger cities if for no other reason than to say they wouldn't live here.

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Originally Posted by Strong

Attachment 16220
I think that Detroit is still considered a major city. Now, I don't say major in comparison to NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, San Francisco, or Los Angeles. I say major because we are talked about more so than other cities who are have a large or similar size population, like Cincinnati, Cleveland, Charlotte, San Diego, Houston, or even Philly.

We have the all the professional sports franchises.
We have several entities that we are identified for: Automobiles and Motown. And once ranked the world's largest corporation General Motors and again the largest automobile manufacturer is headquartered here.
We have a rich history where we were once the fifth largest city and so on.
We have a bad reputation which keeps us in the spotlight and many media outlets questioning our comeback.
We have a number of nationally televised events, like the Thanksgiving parade, hydroplane boat race, car race on Belle Isle
We have the Detroit Jazz Fest and Electronic Music Fest which are both well known.

I might be wrong, but I think nationally people will mention Detroit even before some larger cities if for no other reason than to say they wouldn't live here.

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Your grouping is a bit off, so not sure what you're trying to rank? Houston is the fourth largest city in the country and fifth largest metro. Philly is the fifth largest city and sixth largest metro. Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Charlotte are all MUCH smaller metros than any of the other cities on the list, less than half the size of Metro Detroit, and San Diego is also a lot smaller than most of those other cities too.

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Originally Posted by Strong

Attachment 16220
I think that Detroit is still considered a major city. Now, I don't say major in comparison to NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, San Francisco, or Los Angeles. I say major because we are talked about more so than other cities who are have a large or similar size population, like Cincinnati, Cleveland, Charlotte, San Diego, Houston, or even Philly.

We have the all the professional sports franchises.
We have several entities that we are identified for: Automobiles and Motown. And once ranked the world's largest corporation General Motors and again the largest automobile manufacturer is headquartered here.
We have a rich history where we were once the fifth largest city and so on.
We have a bad reputation which keeps us in the spotlight and many media outlets questioning our comeback.
We have a number of nationally televised events, like the Thanksgiving parade, hydroplane boat race, car race on Belle Isle
We have the Detroit Jazz Fest and Electronic Music Fest which are both well known.

I might be wrong, but I think nationally people will mention Detroit even before some larger cities if for no other reason than to say they wouldn't live here.

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You forgot to include the sales pitch for your DVD.

Detroit historically is in the same league as Chicago, NYC and Philadelphia [[I call it America's 4th city).

But since the 1970s, it has been rapidly shrinking relative to the rest of the country, including the aforementioned cities.

It still has that old-skool big city feel to it though, because of how big it was in the past. That's going to change soon though.

Attachment 16224 officially we are a beta minor city that ranks just above Denver. Beta cities are defined as "important world cities that are instrumental in linking their region or state into the world economy"
Source: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/gawcworlds.html

How long are these endless comparisons to other cities going to go on? If you look hard enough you will find things in other cities that are worse than in Detroit. But how are these comparisons going to help Detroit? No matter how high the crime rates or the umployment rates or corruption is in other cities how is that going to help Detroit. Does it make Detroiters feel better when they discover that some big city has a higher crime rate or unemployment rate?

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

How long are these endless comparisons to other cities going to go on? If you look hard enough you will find things in other cities that are worse than in Detroit. But how are these comparisons going to help Detroit? No matter how high the crime rates or the umployment rates or corruption is in other cities how is that going to help Detroit. Does it make Detroiters feel better when they discover that some big city has a higher crime rate or unemployment rate?

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Great post, MidTownMs

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Originally Posted by louis

Attachment 16224 officially we are a beta minor city that ranks just above Denver. Beta cities are defined as "important world cities that are instrumental in linking their region or state into the world economy"
Source: http://www.lboro.ac.uk/gawc/gawcworlds.html

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Reading the GAWC methodology, I think it underestimates the overall impact of many cities [[including Detroit, Los Angeles, Tokyo and Paris, among others) and overestimates generic cities connected into world trade, particularly with many other ranked cities in methodology [[overranking many of the European second tier cities and Chicago, in particular).

The GAWC measures accounting, advertising, finance, insurance, and law. Thus, cities that influence from the mind, culture, or manufacturing, only get ranked highly because of the tangential industries that support their main industry. We in Detroit are being ranked by how many law firms, advertising agencies, and insurance companies that our works have produced here in Detroit, rather than the influence and sales of our cultural and manufactured products.

Also, second tier European cities would be higher ranked because of the network effect, in that their advertising, accounting, etc. jobs, would be highly tied in to other European cities, especially the top tier ones. Much of our production [[or LA or Paris') would be going to the hinterlands instead, and not be included in this methodology.

This methodology measures how much side work does your city create, and of this work, how much of it is connected to the other big cities. This is good for some purposes, but not so good in ranking Detroit, except in ancillary services production.

Don't forget our world class symphony and Art Institute, the library and Wayne State University with all it has to offer. The Detroit Zoo is also very innovative in its design of exhibits to combine best viewing and resident comfort. We have automotive and industrial history down as well, with the Henry Ford, all the auto magnate homes open for tours, Detroit Historical Museum, Chrysler Museum, and more.

Our GDP is about the same as Toronto's, even though we have a smaller population, and Toronto is an alpha city. I'm definitely not saying Detroit is as good as Toronto or that we should be ranked near it, but I think a lot of people underestimate Detroit. To me, Detroit is undoubtedly a big and important city.

Attachment 16226Above is a map of the eastern United States ranking major cities as to the desirability of real estate investment - both new construction and existing buildings. It is a 1 to 51 ranking. The ranking number is next to the color-coded location dot.

This report just came out the other day and is called "Emerging Trends in Real Estate – 2013." It is published annually [[34th edition) by the Urban Land Institute and PricecoopersWaterhouse. You can download the entire report here:
http://www.worldpropertychannel.com/...eport-6189.php

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Originally Posted by leapfrog

Great post, MidTownMs

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Thanks. Yet they continue.

I recall it being a pretty big deal when Detroit went from gamma to beta cluster in world city rankings

Lists are so subjective that I often don't even bother with them... If Berlin is a Beta city.... then there's something really flawed in this list... the capital of Europe's leading economy and one of the great culture capitals of the world.. is behind alpha Frankfurt... a city only 1/5 its' size, boggles the mind...

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Originally Posted by wolverine

I recall it being a pretty big deal when Detroit went from gamma to beta cluster in world city rankings

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Wasn't that mostly due to the upgrades at Metro Airport & the Delta Airlines/Northwest Airlines merger, rather than any change in our economic/cultural influence?

If nothing else, Detroit does have one of the best Airports in the world.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

If nothing else, Detroit does have one of the best Airports in the world.

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You're not kidding. The airport could easily be the best of any I have ever been to. Although it is mostly useful for escaping from Metro Detroit.

I think there is a historic aura about Detroit that is hard to overestimate. from its days as a frontier town, through its lumber and fur eras, through the rise of the automobile and the "Arsenal of Democracy" years through Motown, Rock and Roll and Techno, the city has changed in character more than most cities, yet somehow through every change the rough-hewn frontier birth seems to remain at its core. Detroit has influenced the world more than many world capitals, more than many cities many times larger. Detroit is sort of fetishized by people I've met from Europe, Japan, China and other places. In that way, it will remain a major city where other cities our size will remain afterthoughts

I also think that Detroit is more so thought of than other cities because when Detroiters visit or move many of us carry that Detroit mojo. I know that when I visit other cities, I am quick to mention when asked that I'm from Detroit. I don't get that when I meet people from other cities.

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Originally Posted by Strong

I also think that Detroit is more so thought of than other cities because when Detroiters visit or move many of us carry that Detroit mojo. I know that when I visit other cities, I am quick to mention when asked that I'm from Detroit. I don't get that when I meet people from other cities.

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What exactly is Detroit mojo?

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

What exactly is Detroit mojo?

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I can't explain it but I have been told on many occassion and in many places around the world that Detroit has one.

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Originally Posted by Strong

I can't explain it but I have been told on many occassion and in many places around the world that Detroit has one.

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Did the people who told you know what it was?

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

Did the people who told you know what it was?

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Is that a trick question?

I think most folks would agree that "mojo" [[of any kind) involves mysticism which, by definition, diminishes the significance of knowledge in seeking truth.

So, attempting to know what mojo really is kind of defeats the very purpose of the term?

[[Not that I'm taking sides where sides may not even exist.) :confused:

[[I am a recovering epistemologist.)

I don't know about mojo but I can say one thing about metro Detroiter's. No matter where we go, we can always carve out a spot and make a name for ourselves. Detroiter's can make it BIG in any city and most of us do.

I think that's what Strong means. When we move to other cities, most of us proudly put a Michigan stamp on whatever we do. And that's why people are aware that S.E. Michiganders are to be respected and EXPECTED to do great things. There aren't too many cities where people carry their pride the way S.E. Michiganders do. We stand out because as a region, we never let the world forget where we come from.

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Originally Posted by illwill

I don't know about mojo but I can say one thing about metro Detroiter's. No matter where we go, we can always carve out a spot and make a name for ourselves. Detroiter's can make it BIG in any city and most of us do.

I think that's what Strong means. When we move to other cities, most of us proudly put a Michigan stamp on whatever we do. And that's why people are aware that S.E. Michiganders are to be respected and EXPECTED to do great things. There aren't too many cities where people carry their pride the way S.E. Michiganders do. We stand out because as a region, we never let the world forget where we come from.

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Does having a University of Michigan alumni license plate holder around my New Mexico license plate count?

Just how many American cities larger than Detroit have all 4 major sports teams, and an archdiocese with a cardinal hat? I bet the number really starts decreasing once you whittle away the fact that many are larger because of incorporation of surrounding areas have increased their land size to many times that of Detroit... metro area size is a more important determination... especially when some cities have just about incorporated their entire metro area...

lol...

MidtownMs- I was actually gonna mention that in my statement but didn't want to keep rambling on. The "U" has a lot to do with it.

And MSU [[I gotta be fair).

One of things this city and region has going for it is that the city of Detroit has to rank pretty high in a list of the most interesting American cities.

One of the good quotes from John Sinclair is something like "Detroit is like an experiment gone wrong. Let's see what happens when you take all the jobs away and give the people some really cheap cocaine to smoke".

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Just how many American cities larger than Detroit have all 4 major sports teams, and an archdiocese with a cardinal hat?

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The Archbishop of Detroit isn't a Cardinal, and we probably won't see one again. Maida was the last one.

Just another example of this region becoming less important, less relevant to the rest of society.

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Originally Posted by poobert

The Archbishop of Detroit isn't a Cardinal, and we probably won't see one again. Maida was the last one.

Just another example of this region becoming less important, less relevant to the rest of society.

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Ummm.... you do realize that Detroit is the only city in the USA with 2 Cardinal Emeritus? Edmund Cardinal Szoka and Adam Cardinal Maida...
current Archbishop Allen Vergeron will likely get his cardinal hat eventually... so I think you're over pessimistic about Detroit losing its' Cardinal status. At 1.4+ million members in the Archdiocese, it's the 6th largest Archdiocese in the country [[Brooklyn is only a Diocese)... Detroit gained its' Cardinal status in 1937... and the Archdiocese is not just based on the city's population... but the 7 county catholic population.

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/scus1.html

So I wouldn't worry about Detroit losing its' Cardinal status to such places as Indianapolis, Columbus, Austin, Phoenix, San Diego or San Jose...

And currently neither Los Angeles nor Philadelphia have an Archbishop who is a Cardinal. These things take time....

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Ummm.... you do realize that Detroit is the only city in the USA with 2 Cardinal Emeritus? Edmund Cardinal Szoka and Adam Cardinal Maida...
current Archbishop Allen Vergeron will likely get his cardinal hat eventually... so I think you're over pessimistic about Detroit losing its' Cardinal status. At 1.4+ million members in the Archdiocese, it's the 6th largest Archdiocese in the country [[Brooklyn is only a Diocese)... Detroit gained its' Cardinal status in 1937... and the Archdiocese is not just based on the city's population... but the 7 county catholic population.

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/scus1.html

So I wouldn't worry about Detroit losing its' Cardinal status to such places as Indianapolis, Columbus, Austin, Phoenix, San Diego or San Jose...

And currently neither Los Angeles nor Philadelphia have an Archbishop who is a Cardinal. These things take time....

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I bet you a plenary indulgence we're not getting another Cardinal. So we've got a couple around from our glory days, that's fine. We also have other stuff lying around from those days as well.

You mention the other counties. Michigan was the only state to lose population in the last decade - and not just Detroit! The counties that grew were largely from people leaving Detroit, without a doubt. Yet everything in this freaking region - even bloody Cardinals - always go back to "Oh, it's not just Detroit, Detroit may be bad but we have Metro Detroit, look, we have Oakland County, we have Rochester, we have Shelby Township, it's all so very wonderful" Well, Metro Detroit doesn't have a Cardinal anymore, or a lot of other things, and I'm not holding my breath waiting for them, believing the growth machine needs to just be switched back on.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Ummm.... you do realize that Detroit is the only city in the USA with 2 Cardinal Emeritus? Edmund Cardinal Szoka and Adam Cardinal Maida...
current Archbishop Allen Vergeron will likely get his cardinal hat eventually... so I think you're over pessimistic about Detroit losing its' Cardinal status. At 1.4+ million members in the Archdiocese, it's the 6th largest Archdiocese in the country [[Brooklyn is only a Diocese)... Detroit gained its' Cardinal status in 1937... and the Archdiocese is not just based on the city's population... but the 7 county catholic population.

http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/country/scus1.html

So I wouldn't worry about Detroit losing its' Cardinal status to such places as Indianapolis, Columbus, Austin, Phoenix, San Diego or San Jose...

And currently neither Los Angeles nor Philadelphia have an Archbishop who is a Cardinal. These things take time....

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You are so right and also two of the top 4 or 5 contributing parishes to the catholic relief fund in the world are located here. Archbishop Vergeron was picked to be a cardinal by the higher ups in the vatican from the beginning. Its all about the Benjamins!!

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Originally Posted by poobert

I bet you a plenary indulgence we're not getting another Cardinal. So we've got a couple around from our glory days, that's fine. We also have other stuff lying around from those days as well.

You mention the other counties. Michigan was the only state to lose population in the last decade - and not just Detroit! The counties that grew were largely from people leaving Detroit, without a doubt. Yet everything in this freaking region - even bloody Cardinals - always go back to "Oh, it's not just Detroit, Detroit may be bad but we have Metro Detroit, look, we have Oakland County, we have Rochester, we have Shelby Township, it's all so very wonderful" Well, Metro Detroit doesn't have a Cardinal anymore, or a lot of other things, and I'm not holding my breath waiting for them, believing the growth machine needs to just be switched back on.

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Apparently you believe that total population and growth statistics are more significant than CATHOLIC population in an archdiocese... I think that the church will differ with you on that.

Here's a list/map of the breakdown of the USA Catholic Hierarchy... and state by state maps of the provinces of the Church...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._United_States

Traditional Cardinal-Archbishop cities are Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Washington, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles and recently added Galveston-Houston. You don't see any other southern cities Archbishops who have Cardinal status because in many of them the Catholic population [[despite large Hispanic influxes) is still not a significant portion of the total population, and their Archdiocese are not that large [[Catholic percentage wise). And some large metro areas [[such as Dallas and Cleveland) are relegated to having only Bishops.