How can Detroiters still be in love with Ya'lls Boy Kwame Kilpatrick?

Well-wishers shout to Kilpatrick [[right) as he walks outside the U.S. District Court in Detroit. "Hey, baby! We love you, baby," one man yelled. "I appreciate y'all," Kilpatrick replied. Throughout his mayoral tenure, Kilpatrick had a deft touch with constituents.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz23A1RgJxF

I honestly cannot fathom how some folks still support this guy, he admitted to the city that he lied. Is he the next Marion Barry? Guess he'll be on the ticket in 2016 to resume his throne and continue his mission from God.

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Well-wishers shout to Kilpatrick [[right) as he walks outside the U.S. District Court in Detroit. "Hey, baby! We love you, baby," one man yelled. "I appreciate y'all," Kilpatrick replied. Throughout his mayoral tenure, Kilpatrick had a deft touch with constituents.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz23A1RgJxF

I honestly cannot fathom how some folks still support this guy, he admitted to the city that he lied. Is he the next Marion Barry? Guess he'll be on the ticket in 2016 to resume his throne and continue his mission from God.

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Think Afghanistan. Many love the Taliban.

When he's back, and he will be back, it will be fascinating to see if voters warm up to him en mass.

I hope that his supporters, ardent though they may be, are smaller in number.

It literally makes me want to be sick when I see and hear these mindless people who still support the man who raped and pillaged the City of Detroit for years.

These people are no better than a bunch of lemmings who would follow KK to their ultimate death, because that's where KK was leading Detroiters, to it's death. Does anyone really think that KK will be convicted the first time? There will be another hung jury, no doubt.

thug life [[werd)

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

I honestly cannot fathom how some folks still support this guy, he admitted to the city that he lied. Is he the next Marion Barry? Guess he'll be on the ticket in 2016 to resume his throne and continue his mission from God.

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...because some guy shouted that he loved him on the street you've taken that as an opinion poll of all registered voters in the city of Detroit?

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Guess he'll be on the ticket in 2016 to resume his throne and continue his mission from God.

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Didn't the state pass a law that convicted felons cannot serve in an elected office right after Kwame went to the pokey?

If anybody is capable of a hung jury it's KK. He will try anything to get out of this. There is no way he is aquitted, but if he can keep getting misstrials he stands a chance. 2nd time is key, didnt work for Sam and I doubt it works for Ferguson, but Kwame its 50/50.
Its going to be and interesting Fall

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Originally Posted by kenp

If anybody is capable of a hung jury it's KK. He will try anything to get out of this. There is no way he is aquitted, but if he can keep getting misstrials he stands a chance. 2nd time is key, didnt work for Sam and I doubt it works for Ferguson, but Kwame its 50/50.
Its going to be and interesting Fall

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If this guy walks, it will confirm what everyone basically already knew. That our legal system is a joke, and it's not as close to perfect as we can get.

If he walks, that day will denote the day I stopped believing in society and the common good.

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Well-wishers shout to Kilpatrick [[right) as he walks outside the U.S. District Court in Detroit. "Hey, baby! We love you, baby," one man yelled. "

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Love is blind.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

...because some guy shouted that he loved him on the street you've taken that as an opinion poll of all registered voters in the city of Detroit?

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iheartthed...Can't you see I'm trying to start a feeding frenzy:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by TKshreve

If this guy walks, it will confirm what everyone basically already knew. That our legal system is a joke, and it's not as close to perfect as we can get.

If he walks, that day will denote the day I stopped believing in society and the common good.

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I agree, but the facts remain the same. For KK to be guilty there must be a unanimous verdit. All 12 members must vote him guilty and in Detroit, recent history shows 1 or 2 will throw a wrench into the system despite the evidence. Just look at Riddle and Ferguson.

KK is glorified and revered. "The man" is after him and some residents of Detroit will not see him go to jail if they can help it...no matter how much he stole from their pockets...no matter how many people in the City he screwed [[both literally and figuratively)...no matter that he brought the City down to it's knees.

I'm sure that not all residents feel that way, but seeing the reaction of "some" who where outside the courthouse, he is still well loved and has deceived a lot of people, from the residents on down to his wife, children and other family.

KK Has been working on that one person. Ever wonder why he wrote that book and brings it to churches? Bet your life that most people who can sit on a 3-month jury are retired. So there will be a few church ladies in the jury pool. All he needs is one motherly Black woman who is sympathetic to a nice young man with a great smile and a lot of pretended penitence.

In a city populated by crooks and thugs ......

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Originally Posted by SWMAP

KK Has been working on that one person. Ever wonder why he wrote that book and brings it to churches? Bet your life that most people who can sit on a 3-month jury are retired. So there will be a few church ladies in the jury pool. All he needs is one motherly Black woman who is sympathetic to a nice young man with a great smile and a lot of pretended penitence.

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Amen brother!

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Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83

Well-wishers shout to Kilpatrick [[right) as he walks outside the U.S. District Court in Detroit. "Hey, baby! We love you, baby," one man yelled. "I appreciate y'all," Kilpatrick replied. Throughout his mayoral tenure, Kilpatrick had a deft touch with constituents.

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...#ixzz23A1RgJxF

I honestly cannot fathom how some folks still support this guy, he admitted to the city that he lied. Is he the next Marion Barry? Guess he'll be on the ticket in 2016 to resume his throne and continue his mission from God.

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Hitler had 6M people executed and he still has followers. Why do people keep asking these silly questions? Everyone will be loved by someone and hated by someone. EVERYONE. So what's so surprising that some people still love Kwame? It certainly isn't everyone...

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Originally Posted by TKshreve

If this guy walks, it will confirm what everyone basically already knew. That our legal system is a joke, and it's not as close to perfect as we can get.

If he walks, that day will denote the day I stopped believing in society and the common good.

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The legal system has been broken for decades...but I'll leave that conversation for another day and another topic.

..I'm glad that since it's a federal case, there will be no videotaping allowed in the courtroom.. at least "some" of the daily drama will be minimized in these coming months..

Right. The people I poll more and more understand that Kilpatrick was corrupt and needed to go. To those I come in contact with who still say stupid stuff like he was just 'cheating' on his wife 'what's the big deal?' I personally remind them that it was corruption in part was about 'obstruction of justice' and point them to OTIS so that can see for themselves that adultery is not mentioned once in the list of felonies.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

...because some guy shouted that he loved him on the street you've taken that as an opinion poll of all registered voters in the city of Detroit?

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Precisely!

As this is as federal case now, I just hope we'll just see a few seconds of KK and others 'well-healed' walk to and from the court house.

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Hitler had 6M people executed and he still has followers. Why do people keep asking these silly questions? Everyone will be loved by someone and hated by someone. EVERYONE. So what's so surprising that some people still love Kwame? It certainly isn't everyone...

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Originally Posted by TKshreve

If this guy walks, it will confirm what everyone basically already knew. That our legal system is a joke, and it's not as close to perfect as we can get.

If he walks, that day will denote the day I stopped believing in society and the common good.

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On the contrary, one of the strengths of the American justice system is that it is works very hard to protect the innocent.

That said, it will still be a sad day when he's back in the Manoogian Mansion.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

...because some guy shouted that he loved him on the street you've taken that as an opinion poll of all registered voters in the city of Detroit?

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Quite frankly I wouldn't care if it was even a slightly larger mob of his blind devoted posse- all it takes is one determined prosecutor with the goods to send his butt back to jail again.

I'm tired of this guy staining our city on a regular basis. It's shameful enough having him around reminding us of the corruption that he had in office.

A while back I was interning in a certain "enclave" city of Detroit, not named Hamtramck. I had my screen saver as a picture of Detroit with a street sign that said "Kwame Killed my City". I left for the weekend and came back and it was gone. Why? Because he has a lot of people still in favor of him, not only in Detroit, but in its surrounding cities. While he was mayor, he cleaned up the city asthetically, all the while raping the town's funds. It is these "clean-up the streets" programs he did that made people love him, and remember him.

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Originally Posted by Planner3357

he has a lot of people still in favor of him, not only in Detroit, but in its surrounding cities.

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Good point. I seriously don't think it was a Detroit resident who moved him to a plush suburb of Dallas and gave him a $100K+ a year salary to basically do nothing. People don't want to talk about that though.

Kwame is a celebrity. People just want to tell their friends and family that they shook his hand or said something back to them after they called out to him. People rooted for Dilinger eventhough they knew he was a ruthless gangster.

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Originally Posted by royce

Kwame is a celebrity. People just want to tell their friends and family that they shook his hand or said something back to them after they called out to him. People rooted for Dilinger eventhough they knew he was a ruthless gangster.

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Very to the point. Women fall in love and write letters to the worst offenders in prisons all over the world. Some they have never met but take a shine to. They marry them, consummate their marriages at appointed times in private cells, etc... It takes all kinds to make and screw up a planet I guess.

Whenever I get frustrated about the politics in the city, it helps me to remember that for a large number of people, city leaders do not exist for the purpose of providing services. They exist for the purpose of providing jobs and siphoning tax money to their friends.

In this model of thinking, your objective as a resident is not to provide constructive feedback and hold leaders accountable. Your objective is to make sure your friends are the ones in charge so that you can benefit from it.

Of course, I emphatically and totally reject this way of thinking in its entirety. I believe that the city government's sole purpose is to provide services. And I am loyal not to any one person or group of people...only to the set of people who will provide the best services.

But understand that for a subset of the population, they've never personally experienced ever having a municipal government [[and possibly even an authority figure, such as a teacher or a principal) who provided or tended to their needs.

In this model of thinking, their loyalty to Kwame [[or anyone else, for that matter) is totally rational. Given the presumption that all city leaders are incompetent, corrupt, and destined to fail at providing services to me and my people, of course I will remain loyal to whichever incompetent and corrupt leader will make sure that me and my friends get ours first.

In other words if choice "a" is to get screwed on services but get an easy paycheck vs. choice "b", getting screwed on services but be without a job...which one do you think I'm gonna choose?

I'd be a fool to choose anything but "a".

Again, I disagree with this thinking, but I've also been fortunate to have lived in different cities, experienced high levels of services, been educated to have some understanding of the many components that drive organizational success, etc. I don't know everything and I can't predict the future. But I'm educated enough to know that I really don't give a rat's ass about which entity controls Belle Isle...all I care about is what systems and agreements are in place to ensure that the largest number of citizens both directly and indirectly benefit from its successful operation.

I have very little sympathy for the Kwame loyalists. But getting caught up in the frustration of trying to change them is not a very effective use of time and emotional energy for me. Rather than prove them wrong through logic and rhetoric, the best way to prove them wrong is simply to execute your ideas and provide better services and better lives for everyone involved -- including them.

This is why the Detroit Zoo, Cobo Hall, the Riverfront and Campus Martius were such foundational wins. Yes, I recognize that for small number of people and business owners, the impact on them was negative. But for a far larger number of people -- many of whom are Detroiters -- we can point to concrete improvements from these decisions.

I sometimes have to laugh when I hear someone from the old neighborhood says, "Why don't the City do with Belle Isle what they did with Campus Martius or the Riverfront?" Detroiters benefited in both cases. In both cases Detroiters are all welcome to enjoy them. The key is we both want the same results. When they find out that the crucial decision in both of those examples was that the City let go of control to an outside party, they become much more open to the idea.

Meh. There will always be a set of people who choose loyalty over logic. It doesn't matter whether you're far right, far left, etc. Yes, they're loud, obnoxious, and they get in the way of progress. But paying attention to them is like feeding online trolls. It just gives them more energy and gets frustrating. Let the Kwame and his people work on his "comeback". If you're frustrated about how an uneducated electorate keeps blindly supporting him, I don't blame you.

Let's go do something about it: go help teach a kid to read, press for educational reforms, or work to make sure we keep the crazies on both sides of the aisle out of office.

My 2 cents.

Don't forget how much they liked Coleman Young too!

I was one of the bloggers who against Kilpatrick and his antics. The pay to play concept that existed under his administration. I would also like point out that Bing has done more damage to the city than Kilpatrick had ever done. Kilpatrick, even in his stupidity and corruption, was still a fighter for the city and it's residents. He had gotten the ball rolling for Dan Gilbert. He would had stood up to Snyder. I felt that Kilpatrick was improving in his second term but the wrong doing that he had done during his first term had came to haunt him. Bing is one of the weakest mayors that Detroiters ever had to represent us. He, unlike Kilpatrick, is so out of touch and reach from the community. Kilpatrick was focusing on the eastside of Detroit while Bing is ignoring it with the exception of tree farming. Pound for pound Kilpatrick is turning out to had been a much better Mayor during his term than Bing is currently

The only thing Kilpatrick was focused on was his own personal wants, needs, and desires.

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

The only thing Kilpatrick was focused on was his own personal wants, needs, and desires.

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Dave Bing and certain members of Council only focus are the corporations and certain special interest groups wants needs and desires and not the residents of the city

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Originally Posted by stasu1213

Dave Bing and certain members of Council only focus are the corporations and certain special interest groups wants needs and desires and not the residents of the city

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Well at least they are focused on somthing other than just themselves.

It only takes a few rabid supporters and a camera to make it look like the whole city loves him.

I was shocked when he got re-elected, but I certainly hope Detroit voters would see how much he's stolen from and cost the city and not elect him ever again.

Right! And recall the previous cheering cadres are now at least a bit more distracted with their own struggles related to the economy, crime and violence. I for one did not vote for him the second time.

Those who once felt somehow awash in the eh-er' charisma and light of the former mayor or recipient of some fiscal gain - well what of it now?

What has he done for anyone lately, even peripherally?

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Originally Posted by 48091

It only takes a few rabid supporters and a camera to make it look like the whole city loves him.

I was shocked when he got re-elected, but I certainly hope Detroit voters would see how much he's stolen from and cost the city and not elect him ever again.

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

Well at least they are focused on somthing other than just themselves.

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What good is the focus is if it is not on providing service and safety to the residents of the city.

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Originally Posted by stasu1213

What good is the focus is if it is not on providing service and safety to the residents of the city.

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That's a very broad question, however, the thread is about Kwame Kilpatrick.

I'm curious, if Kwame is found not guilty... will the people on this board accept that as he didn't steal from the city or strong-arm contracts etc? From what I'm reading, I'm feeling like the answer is no.

Let's be honest, the man has been waaay over-villified in the media and becuase he fought back the media pounded him more... swelling the hate of the burbs and many Detroiters to a point beyond all reasonability. Is what he's accused of doing any worse than Bing failing to use block grant funds to help poor detroiters? Is it any worse than Bing lying to the people of Detroit claiming he was reducing the deficit only to find the city under a consent agreement two years later because of ballooning deficit? Is it worse than Bing claiming to not be taking a salary only to renig on that once the papers found out? I personally don't think so. What Bing has done is pretty much no different. He gave jobs to his friends while abandoning the sinking ship of his company. What Kwame has done is what many others do when they get positions of power. Right or wrong, they hire their friends and they tell the people of the city what they want to hear.

To answer the thread's question though: Detroiters still love Kwame because he is one of them. He grew up here, made something of himself and represented a winner who had made it from the city that supposedly doesn't make winners. He always defended the city no matter what and always sided with the people of the city. He was comfortable in the boardroom or at the club and he felt like somebody you could have a beer with.

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Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

I'm curious, if Kwame is found not guilty... will the people on this board accept that as he didn't steal from the city or strong-arm contracts etc? From what I'm reading, I'm feeling like the answer is no.

Let's be honest, the man has been waaay over-villified in the media and becuase he fought back the media pounded him more... swelling the hate of the burbs and many Detroiters to a point beyond all reasonability. Is what he's accused of doing any worse than Bing failing to use block grant funds to help poor detroiters? Is it any worse than Bing lying to the people of Detroit claiming he was reducing the deficit only to find the city under a consent agreement two years later because of ballooning deficit? Is it worse than Bing claiming to not be taking a salary only to renig on that once the papers found out? I personally don't think so. What Bing has done is pretty much no different. He gave jobs to his friends while abandoning the sinking ship of his company. What Kwame has done is what many others do when they get positions of power. Right or wrong, they hire their friends and they tell the people of the city what they want to hear.

To answer the thread's question though: Detroiters still love Kwame because he is one of them. He grew up here, made something of himself and represented a winner who had made it from the city that supposedly doesn't make winners. He always defended the city no matter what and always sided with the people of the city. He was comfortable in the boardroom or at the club and he felt like somebody you could have a beer with.

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From the perspective of who has helped specific people, and who hasn't done what for whom...you are right.

By looking at the end result, by your explanation of it, what Bing has done and what Kwame has done are equal effects, just to two different sets of people. And that's a common way of looking at it. My argument is that such a perspective is short-sighted, and that Kwame's sins will have a longer lasting effect.

Here's my only problem with this perspective.

Detroit's biggest problems revolve around crime and money. Too much crime. Not enough money. If you even put a dent into these two things alone, you would drastically help Detroiters around the whole city.

Acting under the assumption that what you are saying is true, the effects of one are no worse than the effects of the other. But the problem is the routes they used to get there. For the purpose of illustration, take your statement that Bing failed to use money that he should have used to help our poorest.

That's incompetence.

What Kwame is accused of doing, though, was conspiring with Ferguson to rig bids.

That's deception and fraud.

They both might have the same effect in the short-term, one group of people getting screwed at the expense of another group. But in the long-term, deception and fraud lead people to believe that: a) Crime is tolerated and encouraged at the top levels, so it's excusable at the bottom levels as well, and b) the system is rigged, so why bother trying.

These two things have a major effect on the outsiders' perceptions of Detroit and Detroiters. And in an environment when money is one of our top two problems, this has a huge impact. It tells developers that it's too risky to do business here because you never know when the fire marshall or a city councilman is going to demand $5,000 or $50,000 to give you a much needed permit 6-months into construction. It tells companies not to set up their headquarters here and hire Detroiters because, there's something fishy about the way everyone "gets things done" around here. It only feeds into the notion that we don't have our shit together and can't be trusted with other peoples' money.

There's a big difference between Kwame Kenyatta and Kwame Kilpatrick. They both might be taking care of the downtrodden. Maybe Detroiters feel like the two of them can understand them more than Bing.

I agree.

But Kenyatta is very open and transparent about his intentions. Kilpatrick was using all sorts of shady dealings, bribes and conspiracy, in order to get his mission accomplished. In the short-term, they maybe the same. But in the long-term, Kenyatta is just someone who I disagree with. Kilpatrick is someone whose behavior makes it really, really risky for outside money to come into the city.

One last thing.

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Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

To answer the thread's question though: Detroiters still love Kwame because he is one of them. He grew up here, made something of himself and represented a winner who had made it from the city that supposedly doesn't make winners.

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Detroit still makes lots of winners. It always has.

The allure of Kwame was that he brought pride to those who have felt humiliated. His dream was the idea that you could be a winner "without having to turn into the enemy".

The problem is that there are no enemies, only problems that need solutions. And he brought pride, but rather than a pride based on character, it was a false pride based on bravado and ego.

Again, it's short-term vs. long-term. In the short-term, having swagger can get you pretty far. But in the long-term -- when you have to deal with the inevitable wax and wane of the ups and downs of life, business, and politics -- it'll be very apparent who in the ocean is swimming naked as soon as the tide goes out.

There are easy ways for the quick win, but there are no shortcuts to long-lasting success. The understanding of that distinction is why Kwame is Kwame. And why Cory Booker is Cory Booker.

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

The problem is that there are no enemies, only problems that need solutions.

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Actually there are enemies. However to defeat enemies you have to understand them and respect their strengths. Acknowledging the enemy is not the problem, the problem is trying to fight the enemy with nothing more than rhetoric as opposed to solid ideas and work ethic.

Part of proving such an enemy exists is exposing the agenda to constantly tie the majority of Detroiters to rabid support of Kilpatrick while ignoring the fact that almost all the money that supported his political aspirations, legal costs, relocation costs, and current job position came from suburbanites.

Kwame is filthy scum -- a prostitute if you will. No one is mad at the john though, just the prostitute. They pretend the john doesn't exist because it does not fit their purpose.

Since Kwame is both out of office and legally barred from being mayor of Detroit ever again, I'd rather not go back and forth worrying about who still loves him and who doesn't and focus on what is going on in the city now. We could work together or keep pointing fingers, as it is easier to point a finger than to lend a hand. History of both sides tells me that both sides would much rather continue pointing fingers. That is the saddest part.

As to the suburban businessmen: two thoughts:
Every great city has been visioned and ban-rolled by business leaders. They build the magnificent buildings and employ the people and put together the committees that build the parks.
In the case of Detroit, those businesses were first as enamored of the bright, dissembling KK. But he, from the beginning, had his hand out for personal cash, for Kristal and trips, and for percentages for his friends.
What is anyone supposed to do? True, some walked away and didn't build or bring employers. But others had to play the game- after all, they too only have one lifetime in which to accomplish a dream - and many of them, GM, Compuware, Penske, had huge wirforces here. So they cynically went along, buying him off and feeding his voracious personal need for luxury in order to get anywhere. And I imagine that they didn't want to change horses from KK when Freman Hendrix was the candidate - too many irons in the fire by then.
What would you have suburban business leaders do - move their projects to Cleveland to get away from the mayor the people elected. They just played the game too.
Wouldn't you, if in court, be just as nice and respectful to Sylvia James as to any other judge who holds your fat in her hands? If she made you pay your fine directly to her - wouldn't you agree -despite the whispers of her corruption?

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Since Kwame is both out of office and legally barred from being mayor of Detroit ever again, I'd rather not go back and forth worrying about who still loves him and who doesn't and focus on what is going on in the city now.

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I don't think that's true. My understanding is that he can't run for office for 5 years, and then he's free to run.

Is there some other kind of legal limitation, like term limits that I'm not considering?

Well stated. As I said before those who of us remain and strive to stay in the city have more than enough on our plates than KK. He is going to have carry his own water at this point.

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

Since Kwame is both out of office and legally barred from being mayor of Detroit ever again, I'd rather not go back and forth worrying about who still loves him and who doesn't and focus on what is going on in the city now. We could work together or keep pointing fingers, as it is easier to point a finger than to lend a hand. History of both sides tells me that both sides would much rather continue pointing fingers. That is the saddest part.

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Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

Let's be honest, the man has been waaay over-villified in the media ....

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You're joking, right?

Or, should I ask "Which Kilpatrick relative are you?"

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Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

I'm curious, if Kwame is found not guilty... will the people on this board accept that as he didn't steal from the city or strong-arm contracts etc? From what I'm reading, I'm feeling like the answer is no.

Let's be honest, the man has been waaay over-villified in the media and becuase he fought back the media pounded him more... swelling the hate of the burbs and many Detroiters to a point beyond all reasonability. Is what he's accused of doing any worse than Bing failing to use block grant funds to help poor detroiters? Is it any worse than Bing lying to the people of Detroit claiming he was reducing the deficit only to find the city under a consent agreement two years later because of ballooning deficit? Is it worse than Bing claiming to not be taking a salary only to renig on that once the papers found out? I personally don't think so. What Bing has done is pretty much no different. He gave jobs to his friends while abandoning the sinking ship of his company. What Kwame has done is what many others do when they get positions of power. Right or wrong, they hire their friends and they tell the people of the city what they want to hear.

To answer the thread's question though: Detroiters still love Kwame because he is one of them. He grew up here, made something of himself and represented a winner who had made it from the city that supposedly doesn't make winners. He always defended the city no matter what and always sided with the people of the city. He was comfortable in the boardroom or at the club and he felt like somebody you could have a beer with.

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Bobby is that you? Hello...........

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Originally Posted by Meddle

You're joking, right?

Or, should I ask "Which Kilpatrick relative are you?"

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Heh, we'll go easy on ya, Schoolcraft, if you can remember who was in the room with ya at Cobo Hall during the last gasps of Kwhyme's administration...rumor was you've only got about 170 faces to name! [[I guessed the first five.)


Cheers!

I'm not a relative, just not brainwashed by the freep or the news channels to think that this guy is the devil incarnate without any proof. The man hasn't had a day in court before you guys have labeled him and Ferguson guilty for all of these charges. The FBI hasn't really been batting 1000 in a lot of these cases lately.

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Acting under the assumption that what you are saying is true, the effects of one are no worse than the effects of the other. But the problem is the routes they used to get there. For the purpose of illustration, take your statement that Bing failed to use money that he should have used to help our poorest.

That's incompetence.

What Kwame is accused of doing, though, was conspiring with Ferguson to rig bids.

That's deception and fraud.

They both might have the same effect in the short-term, one group of people getting screwed at the expense of another group. But in the long-term, deception and fraud lead people to believe that: a) Crime is tolerated and encouraged at the top levels, so it's excusable at the bottom levels as well, and b) the system is rigged, so why bother trying.

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All of those things have lasting effects on a city. The incompetence of Bing's team has caused this consent agreement which basically says "we can't trust you to run your city or vote good people into office so step aside and let us handle this." The agreement doesn't end until the governor says so. It causes our credit to bomb so that the city has to beg the state like a crackhead on the corner to be lent money. That causes as bad of a perception of the city as the things that Kwame is accused of doing. I hear your point though.

Are you forgetting about the prison time he's already served?

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Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

I'm curious, if Kwame is found not guilty... will the people on this board accept that as he didn't steal from the city or strong-arm contracts etc? From what I'm reading, I'm feeling like the answer is no.

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If he's found NOT guilty, it doesn't mean he DIDN'T steal from the city or strong-arm contracts, it's just that there isn't enough proof to legally convict him of the crime [[or the jurors are deadlocked).

Just as Bob Bashara isn't facing charges for killing his wife. Yeah, we know he did [[otherwise he wouldn't have hired a hitman to kill off the hitman), but there just isn't enough proof to charge him.

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Originally Posted by SWMAP

As to the suburban businessmen: two thoughts:
Every great city has been visioned and ban-rolled by business leaders. They build the magnificent buildings and employ the people and put together the committees that build the parks.
In the case of Detroit, those businesses were first as enamored of the bright, dissembling KK. But he, from the beginning, had his hand out for personal cash, for Kristal and trips, and for percentages for his friends.
What is anyone supposed to do? True, some walked away and didn't build or bring employers. But others had to play the game- after all, they too only have one lifetime in which to accomplish a dream - and many of them, GM, Compuware, Penske, had huge wirforces here. So they cynically went along, buying him off and feeding his voracious personal need for luxury in order to get anywhere. And I imagine that they didn't want to change horses from KK when Freman Hendrix was the candidate - too many irons in the fire by then.
What would you have suburban business leaders do - move their projects to Cleveland to get away from the mayor the people elected. They just played the game too.
Wouldn't you, if in court, be just as nice and respectful to Sylvia James as to any other judge who holds your fat in her hands? If she made you pay your fine directly to her - wouldn't you agree -despite the whispers of her corruption?

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You make some very good points and I'm very intrigued by your post. I'd like to ask you then why do these suburban business leaders still kiss up to Kilpatrick even though he is now out of office and they can deal with Bing now? It is a suburban business leader who gave Kilpatrick the job he has now, moved him to a posh suburban home in the Dallas area, and he is still getting his legal bills paid by these same interests. Notice how Detroiters are portrayed as uneducated in their rabid support of Kilpatrick, but the poor suburban business leaders had they little biddy hands tied behind their backs and forced to go along. Ahhh, poor things.

Btw, my post is in no way is an indictment of business leaders or suburbanites. We're all people and the vast majority of people in most every group are good people. The point is we're always looking to tear down someone else instead of working together to build up the whole.

Also everybody, Ficano is still in office currently screwing up the county of Wayne through his corruption and shady dealings. Why not any topics discussing the need to get rid of him? Kwame as horrible as he is, and he was and is horrible, is OUT OF OFFICE!

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Originally Posted by 48091

I don't think that's true. My understanding is that he can't run for office for 5 years, and then he's free to run.

Is there some other kind of legal limitation, like term limits that I'm not considering?

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To be honest with you, I don't know where to search for information on this. My understanding is the 5 years you refer to is a plea deal that Kilpatrick made with Kim Worthy. Kilpatrick agreed not to run again for five years to lower the time he'd spend in jail. However, I believe there was legislation passed at the state level that says felons cannot hold elected office in the state of Michigan.

Can anyone shed anymore light on this?

EDIT: Let me also add that Kilpatrick barely won reelection in 2005. He very well could have been voted out then and that was before his scandals really exploded and eventually took him down. Based on the fact that Kilpatrick barely beat Freman Hendrix, I'm not in agreement with most DYesers that Kwame would be a shoe in for getting elected again.

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

You make some very good points and I'm very intrigued by your post. I'd like to ask you then why do these suburban business leaders still kiss up to Kilpatrick even though he is now out of office and they can deal with Bing now? It is a suburban business leader who gave Kilpatrick the job he has now, moved him to a posh suburban home in the Dallas area, and he is still getting his legal bills paid by these same interests. Notice how Detroiters are portrayed as uneducated in their rabid support of Kilpatrick, but the poor suburban business leaders had they little biddy hands tied behind their backs and forced to go along. Ahhh, poor things.

Btw, my post is in no way is an indictment of business leaders or suburbanites. We're all people and the vast majority of people in most every group are good people. The point is we're always looking to tear down someone else instead of working together to build up the whole.

Also everybody, Ficano is still in office currently screwing up the county of Wayne through his corruption and shady dealings. Why not any topics discussing the need to get rid of him? Kwame as horrible as he is, and he was and is horrible, is OUT OF OFFICE!

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My feeling is that Kwame must have some pretty juicy dirt on certain individuals. I see no other reason he's been getting all of this help once he was ousted. This is either going to get real interesting or a backroom deal will be made to keep his mouth shut.

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Originally Posted by Islandman

My feeling is that Kwame must have some pretty juicy dirt on certain individuals. I see no other reason he's been getting all of this help once he was ousted. This is either going to get real interesting or a backroom deal will be made to keep his mouth shut.

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Awww, but if he has dirt on these people then the johns are as filthy and slimy as the prostitute. Again, let's move past worrying about the people who still love Kwame and worry about moving the city forward. Kwame is out of office but Ficano is still running Wayne county into the ground.

Re the businessman who gave Kilpatrick a job, moved him to Dallas, etc: I am told that those were the demands he put up to the people who were begging him to resign. As for Karmanos giving him a job: I agree that was so cynical: KK demanded a good job and Karmanos saw that Carolyn was on the House committee that would be doing a lot of health care legislation and grants. So he could kill two birds with one stone: give KK a job and get his patientedical care information software[[ a priority for Obama) in the front row seat.
But KK really let him down. I don't think KK ever intended to work. He has a lot of money somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Schoolcraft

Let's be honest, the man has been waaay over-villified in the media and becuase he fought back the media pounded him more... swelling the hate of the burbs and many Detroiters to a point beyond all reasonability.

To answer the thread's question though: Detroiters still love Kwame because he is one of them. He grew up here, made something of himself and represented a winner who had made it from the city that supposedly doesn't make winners. He always defended the city no matter what and always sided with the people of the city. He was comfortable in the boardroom or at the club and he felt like somebody you could have a beer with.

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This is my feeling on why Kwame still gets so much love.

The sketchy way the media portrays him produces a backlash and defensive reaction. Just contrast him with Ficano. Ficano looks just as dirty, and is called as such.

But there's a genuine hatred when people speak of Kwame and it's so blatant. Thug KK. Kwhyme. Yall's Boy. The diamond earring. The way he dresses. Detroiters/black folk are really not as stupid and oblivious as people like to believe. They pick up on that slick shit and get defensive.

Plus he's not grovelling. America can't stand unrepentant black men and that further fuels the hatred.

Personally the Feds have the cards stacked unfairly in their favor anyway when it comes to prosecution in general and he's likely going to prison. Does it really matter if a few people don't view him as the worst criminal this city/country has ever birthed?

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Originally Posted by brizee

But there's a genuine hatred when people speak of Kwame and it's so blatant. Thug KK. Kwhyme. Yall's Boy. The diamond earring. The way he dresses. Detroiters/black folk are really not as stupid and oblivious as people like to believe. They pick up on that slick shit and get defensive.

Plus he's not grovelling. America can't stand unrepentant black men and that further fuels the hatred.

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Agreed.

However, the Feds necessarily haven't been batting a thousand on these cases lately. Roger Clemons, Ferguson... Kwame may not have to go to prison this time. Does that mean he didn't do anything? Of course not. But if this guy is so blatantly evil, then it should be a slam dunk for the prosecution shouldn't it? We'll see I guess.

But I can't take it when I run into these folks on the street claiming Kwame single-handedly ruined Detroit by stealing all their tax money into a deficit... as their house goes into foreclosure from not paying taxes, as they throw a bag of McDonalds out the window of their car, park on their front lawn and curse like a sailor at their young children. The media wants people to believe that their favorite black mayors [[Young, Kilpatrick) are the reason this city has hit rock bottom and I don't follow that BS. The people of this city need to step up and make it better themselves.

Keep in mind that a lot of his "supporters" are directly related to him or went to school with him. Like a banana republic dictator, his nepotism spread far and wide. Not to mention he seemed to have a huge fucking family, who virtually all appeared to be varying degrees of scum.

I think for most Detroiters it is a painful chapter we would like to have behind us. It is not unlike the national nightmare with Nixon. The vast majority of people just want it to go away.

Kwame could easily be the most corrupt politician in our state's history. However I do like to point out that Metro Detroit as a whole has a history of electing and re-electing assholes and/or the mentally deficient. Thad McCotter turned out to be a total freakshow, L Brooks is still in office, Janice Daniels seems to find fighting gay people an important civic matter for some reason, I'm not sure what Jim Fouts is, and John Conyers and John Dingell have been clinically dead for decades. Just to name a few.

^^^ Yes, and Ficano is not looking to great lately either...

The Kilpatrick public discussion with the Detroit NABJ is on the 16th.. likely not televised, though there may be some limited taped footage and radio excerpts..

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

The Kilpatrick public discussion with the Detroit NABJ is on the 16th.. likely not televised, though there may be some limited taped footage and radio excerpts..

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Should be an interesting interview, I hope Vicki Thomas is as direct as possible and doesnt let KK run the show. I assume quite a bit will be aired on WWJ. The timing is perfect for KK to wheel and deal.

What would KING KWAME be like in the federal prison suit with army numbers in the back.

The grand jury selection program on the Kilpatrick case will based in race, interpretation of actions of Kilpatrick and his goon mafia; finding the missing link between their crimes and to the violation of federal laws and those intepretions on their actions on several sides of the stories between federal goverment dollars[[and its use) to Kilpatrick, his goon mafia to the crime that would find the missing link to who violated federal laws.

So get ready for this kangaroo court folks. Things will be hoping along before the federal judge.

I doubt very serious that an impartial jury can be found in the city of Detroit .
It's been said before on this site , If Mr Kilpartick were able to run for mayor there are many in this city that would line up and vote him[[sad).

It is true that a person in innocence until proved guilty, and every person deserves their day in court ,but I find it sad that in the city of Detroit it will be nearly impossible to find 12 people that can be impartial .
Mr Kilpatrick is fully aware that he will have at least 1 person out of 12 that will "have his back "
As an ex lawyer mr Kilpatrick is fully aware of this , and knows how to slow the wheels of justice .
He has continually thumb his nose up to the city of Detroit and it's people.
He drags his feet on paying back the city, says he's broke? typical of a person with his ego .
Mr kilpatrick knows how to "grease the wheels of justice"
Where is the justice for the citizens of Detroit ?
This circus is just another black eye for the city and it's people.
Why waste tax payers money, just let him stay in Texas .
The further he is away from Detroit the better ! This is just another sad period in Detroits history.
Sad in Detroit [[SID)

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Originally Posted by Danny

What would KING KWAME be like in the federal prison suit with army numbers in the back.

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Sorry to disappoint you. Its not a suit, its a khaki colored shirt and pants and it doesn't have numbers on the back. You get a plastic id card with your name, number and picture on it that you carry in your pocket.

Looks like KING KWAME don't like one of his lawyers, but the federal court judge to him. " You got him and keep him! You're going to cooperate with him and your legal team."