What a huge loss this would be.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
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What a huge loss this would be.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
Hmm.. maybe a Kid Rock-spearheaded fundraiser? How did the DSO effort turn out?
Accordingto some here, downtown is booming and the city is "coming back". This can't be possible is a growing progressive city.
Yeah, but first Detroit mut go through A LOT of pain, even if it kills it, before most people benefit from the growth taking place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Occurrence
How can the City afford to fund the fireworks? Overtime pay for police, EMS on stand by....seems to me this is where they should start if they are going to eliminate traditions in Detroit.
If you read the article you would know the Fireworks are next to get cut. They're on for this year, next years may be cut.Quote:
Originally Posted by cla1945
Can this region and state be marketed successfully if it cannot even put on a parade and fireworks in its largest city anymore? Will they televise the Thanksgiving Day Parade from Ferndale, where some commenter on the News suggested it be moved?
I'd be willing to donate to keep both events.
What did people think would happen? And the city hasn't even officially gone into receivership or bankruptcy either. He's just getting you all ready for the reality of what a bankrupt city truly looks like.
Where's Dan-Dan, the Quicken Man?
This is altogether strange.
I'm usually one of the first ones to stomp around and yell about the suburbs, I admit. However, if I go to an event in the suburbs, I am protected by their civic departments. Detroit Police don't follow me there. In fact, they don't even show up when we call here, generally.
Bing's rationale is that a ton of people from the region go to these events [[true, which is great) therefore other counties should chip in. So is Detroit throwing cops over there for Arts, Beats, and Eats? This also isn't really charity. I'm sure businesses reap rewards from the fireworks and parade; he should be getting on their asses to chip in.
Once again, when Bing emerges from his convalescent home, he is way, way off target.
This is his problem. Cities have things like parades and fireworks in which they have to ensure the safety of those in the city. He has openly admitted he is not capable of doing those things. Again, this is his problem, not mine or Brooks Patterson's.
No matter where the money comes from, if Detroit funds [[with borrowed or donated money) such unnecessary events as The Fireworks, The Thanksgiving Day Parade and similar they are demonstrating they do not accept they are broke and bankruptcy is in their future. These events should be postponed until Detroit and can afford them - if that ever happens.
I am reminded of a school superintendant out here who said a number of years ago "If the school millage fails, I will be forced to cut all sports programs in order to finance educating our students." The millage failed.
A group of parents started raising funds to retain those programs. The super said "No, these are programs that should be supported by the school. I told you if the vote failed, I would cancel them. It failed. I did. End of subject."
I know the parade and fireworks are not sports programs, but if the city can't afford to help fund them, or could fund them at the expense of other more worthwile services, the city should stop funding them. Maybe private donations or sponsorship could be found to cover all the costs, and maybe at a later date the city can renew it's support, but there reaches a time when one must say "We just can't afford it." That time was probably 10 years ago, but at least someone in city hall is coming to a hard realization.
Quote:
Originally Posted by douglasm
I find it interesting how diverse reactions are. My initial thought was, "Good. Maybe this is the first step toward a more regional policing unit."
Thanksgiving Day Parade and the Downtown Fireworks in Detroit is not like any other parade in the area. It would not be an exaggeration to say that hundreds of thousands of people from all around the area attend each one. Those are regional events, and they should be regional events. Hell, the Thanksgiving Day Parade is televised on a regional [[and I think might still be national) level.
My thoughts?
[[1) Like the Cobo and the Zoo, these events will all be saved.
[[2) A combination or regional participation and private sponsorship will save it.
[[3) If the suburban neighbors offer police protection, that money will likely show up in the form of Michigan State Patrollers rather than go through the city coffers, which is fine.
And yes, as 313WX says [[not sure if it as serious or tongue-in-cheek), things may need to get worse in order for them to get better. Remember, we're talking about re-inventing everything about how we operate.
But this wasn't the first time it's been done, and we will emerge from it better off.
The loss of both will be a huge economic loss to Detroit.Most if not all the hotel and motels in Detroit are booked for both events. Can any of these places afford to loose the revenue that is generated? How many of these places rely on full bookings during these events to keep going for the year? This is also not to mention all the restaurants and lounges that rely on these events. If we must do away with these events due to budget problems then i also suppose the International Auto Show should be cancelled? What a tragedy if all three events are doomed.
financial stability of the city + city services > 2012 parade.. but maybe someday it can come back, with proper funding..
I understand your sentiment...I think you're looking at these from a bottom-up standpoint instead of a top-down. The fireworks and the Thanksgiving Parade cost more money to the city than it brings in. Yes, there is an indirect benefit to the city via goodwill and hotel/restaurant use. But it's generally a money loser.Quote:
Originally Posted by hhockey
Auto Show, on the other hand, is a MAJOR source of revenue for Cobo Hall. All those manufacturers pay to rent space, plus 2 weeks of traveling media, engineers, reps, etc. renting hotel space. The Auto Show is not going anywhere.
And, for that matter, neither are the Fireworks or Parade. They just need to figure out how to pay for security. They'll have to raise funds by either selling more grandstand tickets to pay for security. Or they'll ask other parts of the region to donate coverage. Or they'll ask sponsors to chip more in. Or all of these combined.
They'll figure it out.
No Thanksgiving Parade in Downtown Detroit. FINE! We will have it in Downtown Royal Oak.
I can't imagine they would do that, but I do believe some Oakland County residents would approve of that idea. Wonder how that would play out via national television. Wouldn't a national television audience look at the small town and wonder why they were watching such a podunk parade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny
I really can't think of a single event hosted in any suburb that draws crowd numbers in the high six-figures/low seven figures. I also do not think any suburb is really even capable of hosting an event that large alone. So I agree with Bing for at least opening up the conversation about how the services get funded for these large events that severely strain Detroit's resources.Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
That said, I don't think suburban communities chipping in to fund Detroit based events is the right idea. I think this is a great time to open up the conversation about letting Detroit levy its own special sales tax. Let the city tax restaurant meals and bar tabs to pay for these special events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Ever hear of the Woodward Cruise?
Yes, I have heard of it. No, it's not held in a single suburban community.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheels
Agreed. If the suburban communities do not want to pony up, then cancel these activities. Better yet, I propose Troy should host the fireworks and Birmingham the parade. Let them shoulder all of the costs for once. I'll drive up from Detroit next year with my lawn chair ready for the big show.Quote:
Originally Posted by douglasm
Ummm... FOR ONCE??..... you don't get out of the city much, do you....Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushStart
http://www.oaklandcountymoms.com/eve...ireworks-shows
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
RE: Detroit Freedom Festival
"It is one of the largest and most spectacular fire work displays in North America, lighting up the sky over Windsor and Detroit. This annual spectacle draws more than 1,000,000 to the Windsor and Detroit river fronts."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor...eedom_Festival
Please let me know when OC puts on an event of that magnitude. Until then, I can buy snakes and sparklers at my local pharmacy...
See you don't get out much... they do have the huge firewords in the suburban displays... many of the same ones that are seen in Detroit... just not in the quantity and multi-barge simultaneous shootoffs that Detroit has. There's no doubt that Detroit's blows every other one out of the water. But for a lot of folks... it's enough to see their own town fireworks shooting hundreds of feed into the air... and not deal with the traffic issues of the riverfront ones...Quote:
Originally Posted by BrushStart
Maybe Detroit should start collecting a fee [[although the logistics of that are difficult).... but no suburbs are going to be sending their own policemen downtown... that's not gonna happen.
And if Detroit does cancel its' fireworks... the suburban ones will still likely be happening...
Detroit has New Year's Eve celebrations... But it ain't Times Square.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Seriously, what was the point in mentioning that some suburbs host fireworks shows? We can all debate whether asking suburbs to put up money for the show is a good idea. But it's not up to debate that if there is no Detroit fireworks show then that would be a HUGE void in the summer events schedule.
Yeah, just like for a lot of people it's cool to look at the drawings their children do. Just stick 'em on the refrigerator. No need to go through the hassle of getting on a plane and going to the Louvre to see the Mona Lisa. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Arts beats and eats? Mt clemenns fireworks?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
.... so what you're saying is what's the point of going to Campust Martius for New years.... when the real deal is Times Square?? ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
Neither draw nearly the size of a crowd at one time that the fireworks in downtown Detroit does [[or the Thanksgiving Day parade). According to the Oakland Press, Arts Beats and Eats had a total attendance of 325,000 for the entire Labor Day weekend last year. That's less than half the estimated 1 million people who go to downtown Detroit in one single night to watch the fireworks.Quote:
Originally Posted by GUSHI
My point was not that the Detroit Fire Works should die, and the suburban ones would still continue [[which they would)... my point is that if you're going to get folks down to the river to see the best of all fireworks, then there needs to be some way to pony up to help pay for the experience.
And besides, a suburban police presence at the Detroit Fireworks along the river would likely not go over too well with a lot of Detroiters.
Gistok, I admit that my gut reaction was a little harsh toward the suburbs. I've even been to some of the suburban fireworks displays, notably Canton and also downriver. However, all of the suburban fireworks displays combined cannot replace the importance of the regional display on the Detroit River. This is the event that people talk about, the one they come from afar to see. This is the event that defines us as Metro Detroiters and is a reflection of the greatness of our civilization. Likewise, the Thanksgiving Day Parade is a source of regional pride and rooted in our common history as Metro Detroiters. The importance of these events stretches far beyond Detroit's city borders. It is thus the responsibility of Metro Detroiters to pay for and sustain these events if they wish to continue to show the world that we still exist, that we still celebrate, and that this region is still a relevant place in the world. There is as much symbolism behind holding these major events in Detroit's core as there is entertainment value. People come downtown for the fireworks, not just to enjoy the display, but to share in the collective experience of being "of this place." All I am saying is: please, share in the cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Brushstart, I agree with you 100% on sharing the costs.... but the devil is in the details... I wish there were some way to get folks who attend to pony up... need to find a way.
I also agree that our former "Hudson's Thanksgiving Day Parade [[held since the mid 1920s) is more than just "America's Parade"... it's a tradition that needs to be continued. As someone who had only ever once been to the 12th floor of Hudson's for the Toyland display... I can understand fully well that that magic cannot be replicated elsewhere in the metro area... just like back then you could not replicate that feeling at Northland or Eastland. And the same holds true for events like the Fireworks and Parade.
There is a pretty easy way to get folks who attend to pony up, a tactic that most other major cities have at their disposal, but is currently illegal in Michigan... The state could allow Detroit to administer a sales tax on the services that would be used for the events: parking, restaurants, bars, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Frankly, i'd agree if Detroit wasn't Detroit. But a new tax is going to a tough sell in a city that has a struggling private sector and real problems getting any investment. I mean tourist traps like Slow's would not see a dent, but what about those places that can't get mentions in glowing NYT articles? How many people are going to pay a 5%[[?) premium to drink in Detroit?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
And really, should the city with a ridiculously high tax burden on it's citizens while providing virtually no services REALLY be looking at MORE taxes right now?
How about pausing the fireworks and parade a few years and tabling the discussion of new taxes to support them until the disaster that is CoD finances is sorted out?
This state and region are fucked and seemed they would rather die separately than thrive together....
If the tax would more even spread the cost of services to those who use the services, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
So what's next? a special tax to get your garbage picked up?..er, oh wait... How about a neighborhood surcharge to get the grass mowed in the adjacent park?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
I understand where you're coming from and I'd generally agree with it if Detroit weren't a failed city. I just don't see how adding more taxes to detroiters [[on top of the already onerous tax burden) in order to provide things a real, functioning City provides as a matter of course is the solution. No one is going to support a regional tax to have fireworks and a parade in Detroit. Not when every town in the state that has their own are either talking about cutting them, or already have, because of budget issues of their own.
I mean we're talking about a once a year HEAVILY sponsored Parade and fireworks display. Either this is a manufactured crisis or it's FAR worse here than anyone was previously willing to admit.
IF it really is true, then all this shit [[every free event anywhere in the city...including the seemly hundreds of cops assigned to tigers/lions/redwings games) should end today and it should only come back after an EFM or Bankruptcy judge rightsizes the city's labor force and aligns revenue with spending.
The events should then come back with a entrance fee that covers the cost of holding them or they should only be brought back if there is room in the budget for the policing and clean up costs of "prestige" events.
I speculate it's somewhat manufactured regarding these 2 events.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
I remember in the late 80s or early 90s when the parade was on the ropes financially, the Parade Co started taking donations & selling Parade Pins as a way to raise funds to maintain its operation. Maybe they need to do that again. If it's important enough to people, they'll kick in for it if they can afford to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Here's the thing. Detroit hosts these events but is not able to levy a sales tax on goods or services purchased in the city of Detroit. Detroit cannot collect tax revenue from sales of ticket to Tigers games, Red Wings games, Lions games, alcoholic beverages or food. I don't know if you've ever visited NYC but if you have then take a look at a receipt for something you purchased and you will see a 4% sales tax levied by NYS and another 4% tax levied by NYC.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Well, the revenue model has been broken for quite some time. When the average price of houses in the city have fallen by 50-70%, and the city derives a significant amount of its revenue from that... Pretty clear that the situation is unsustainable.Quote:
I mean we're talking about a once a year HEAVILY sponsored Parade and fireworks display. Either this is a manufactured crisis or it's FAR worse here than anyone was previously willing to admit.
No argument from me there.Quote:
IF it really is true, then all this shit [[every free event anywhere in the city...including the seemly hundreds of cops assigned to tigers/lions/redwings games) should end today and it should only come back after an EFM or Bankruptcy judge rightsizes the city's labor force and aligns revenue with spending.
The events should then come back with a entrance fee that covers the cost of holding them or they should only be brought back if there is room in the budget for the policing and clean up costs of "prestige" events.
I'm talking about the fireworks. But that's cool. Go see the 15-minute fireworks out in podunkville. But I'm warning you -- you may be a little ... easily impressed ... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
I agree that this should be put in place. However, only after the finances are sorted out. Isn't it a moot point though? Wouldn't it take a constitutional amendment to allow it?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed