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http://www.freep.com/article/2012050...yssey=obinsite
So we have another high-profile robbery, this one with two guys who were armed.
If retired police officers have trouble, the rest of us don't stand a chance.
Many years ago, I met him when he was a Precinct Commander...did some hifi work at his house. He was a gentleman to the extreme, and I am glad he wasn't hurt worse in this brazen robbery.
Sincerely,
John
How are we not having conversations about the National Guard??Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannon
Even when times are rough, the constitutional rights of those who are doing right [[and even wrong) still matters.Quote:
Originally Posted by corktownyuppie
Quote:
Originally Posted by corktownyuppie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_%2..._Young_song%29Quote:
Tin soldiers and Nixon's coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are gunning us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
What angers me about this story is that the perps were willing to rob a man mowing his lawn. How much money do they think that their going to get from someone doing yard work? How many people carry money on them or carry their wallet on them when they are doing yard work? The same holds true of folks who have been killed shovelling snow. If anything, I would think that the perps would want to force the person they are robbing back into their homes where they can steal items and cash from the house. In this case, the perps just attacked former police chief Knox while he was using his lawn mower. Dumb criminals.
Black youth are desperate. They have nothing, absolutely nothing. It's easy to say get a job, go to school, but in this society you need money. They get tired of relying on the women in their family for support and they have no direction from the black males in the community, who themselves are struggling.Quote:
Originally Posted by royce
Until we can fix the socio-economic problems of [[black) youth, we will continue to be terrorized by them. If I had my druthers, they would be banned from watching/listening hip-hop artists except for the ones with a positive message. They would be banned from pornography. They would be imprisoned in their homes to read books.
These roving bands of animals controlling the streets of Detroit really do turn the place into a toilet. I could not imagine what its like for a normal law abiding citizen living with the emotions of CONSTANT fear that they WILL be victimized at some point during their life in Detroit. If you have the means...take your children and move out, if you can't leave get some aggressive small arms weapons training and arm yourself as if you were in combat.
It's not about being desperate. It's not about having nothing and it's not about relying on the women of the family for their support. It's all about power and how they can hold an entire City hostage. It's all about intimidation, and, they are getting away with it .
What these thugs do know that it's not very likely they will get caught [[unless, of course, it's a high profile case, ie., Winans); they know if they do get caught they won't suffer much more than a slap on the wrist, and be out of jail before the ink is dry on their paperwork.
What these thugs know is that there is easy pickins' out there. Stand around, wait for anyone to come along, rich or poor, cutting grass or shoveling snow, we'll get you. They are so dumb that they will go after someone cutting grass, knowing full well that the person probably isn't carrying a dime in their pockets.
They are all bottom feeding savages looking for opportunities to pounce. Young, old, babies, children, women, crippled, it doesn't matter to them. They don't want a job, they don't want an education, they just want money or possessions and to make a name for themselves within their community. Ra Ra, Poo Bear, whatever....they want others to fear them, to respect them.
I don't go into Detroit at all anymore. I shop in my suburb and the surrounding suburbs, so far it is relatively safe; however, I am seeing the gang bangers, the thugs and the wannabees here in our area because they are "movin' on up". Our police department has zero tolerance [[unwritten) for these type of "groups" and I can depend on them to be nearby; however, I legally carry, I keep my hand on the gun whenever I see the a$$crack from behind because the pants are almost to their knees, or when I watch them coming towards me, one hand on their crotch holding up the baggy pants like this is "normal" behavior. I would not hesitate one second to shoot one of these rabid animals if they came at me to rob, do harm or try to steal what is mine or hurt one of my loved ones.
That is certainly something that I would never want to happen because I have a conscience and love and respect life...unlike these brainless, rabid, spineless pieces of garbage.
Paragraph 1 -- makes a valid pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Chicago48
Paragraph 2 -- is current method in use in China -- only time will tell whether it works better or worse than USSR
I'm not sure what you mean...are you saying that the national guard is an infringement on someone's constitutional rights?Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
Also, I wouldn't say times are "rough". I'd say times are so far past "rough" that to use that word indicates that the community is not fully engaged or committed to seeing this as a problem.
For example -- and I'm not attributing this to you personally, I'm just illustrating a point -- when we're talking about the consent decree, people show up in droves, threatening to burn down the city, and to stop the consent agreement "by any means necessary". I hear community organizers rallying people around to sign petitions and fight the EM law. There is a hostile, even militant, nature to the dialogue.
But for some reason, we can't seem to get that kind of political will around the problem of crime. Violent crime isn't seen as "acceptable", perse, but it's seen as simply an unfortunate byproduct of modern urban living.
What I want to see is the people who are trying to rise up and fight the "plantation owners" who are coming in and taking their power, and instead see them marching down Woodward with picket signs saying, "More Cops, Safe Streets, More Cops, Safe Streets".
Do you think a new version of Stress is needed in Detroit???
I don't get it either. The Jackson/Sharpton demagogues speak -- and troops rally behind them fighting racism. Where are the black churches on this issue? Why don't they have entire divisions dedicated to fighting neighborhood decay. 'Occupying' drug houses. Organizing citizens rallys. Running soup kitchens. Or am I missing the outrage by the black religious community?Quote:
Originally Posted by corktownyuppie
Well, the problem with that question is that it's loaded with a *lot* of emotions. Translation: "Do you think a new version of a controversial policing technique which historically trampled on the civil rights on large proportion of innocent bystanders is necessary to solve the crime problem."Quote:
Originally Posted by daddeeo
I don't hear the question that way, but I know others will.
Here's what I'm advocating for. Before we start brainstorming solutions to the problem, let's get everyone on the same page and in agreement that there *is* a problem first. I think that once we're all on the same team and in accord that this is a problem swiftly and effectively, then the brainstorming can begin.
Oh sure, I don't think you'll find a single Detroiter black, white, or other who will say it's not a problem. But actions speak louder than words. Lots of people say it's a problem, but let's pause and ask a hard question for a second...who are Detroiters more angry at? Rick Snyder and the 1%? or a bunch of thugs who just robbed a former police chief and a well known pastor at one of Detroit's biggest churches?
If we took all the anger at Snyder and directed against criminals, those members of society who are destroying it from within, those families who are not raising their kids right....then I think we'd be more apt to find effective [[and more politically viable) solutions.
Having the national guard has nothing to do with the constitution. Its about supplementing the police to help patrol the streets and reducing crime. Something drastic needs to be done and right now I could give a shit about these assholes rights when they are beating and killing people for pocket change in their own yard!Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
This is from a previous post of mine:Quote:
Originally Posted by daddeeo
S.T.R.E.S.S.
Give the Police more latitude to do police work; get some stricter laws on the books, implement stricter curfews. Get rid of the judges who let these thugs back out on the streets even before the paperwork is dry on their previous arrest. Quit worrying about stepping on peoples' toes and the rights of criminals and start considering the many victims out there.
Well the guardsmen are trained to enforce military law, as they're the first line of defense for the US department of defense by any means neccesary. Military soldiers are trained to subdue ANYONe they percieve as a threat, even if they're not, by measures ranging from indefinite detainmnt without trial or jury to even shooting and killing the supposed threat on the spot. They don't abide by the same rules as civilian officers. The purpose of th US constitution is to prevent masures such as these from being imposed on civilians, unless the emergency is extreme to the point where were in the state of anarchy [[which we"re not) and ALL civilians resources have been utilized [[which they haven't).Quote:
Originally Posted by corktownyuppie
^^ Keyboard problems?Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
As for the consent agreement, what folks like Snyder and majority of his supporters fail to understand is that they're are legal processes and procedures to everything. It's not so much his methodthat people are againsts, which is actually a strawman, but rather the way he's forcing him on hid citizens. A truly good leader doesn't need to unconstitutionally pass unfavorable measures, only dictators do. That's not a liberal or conservative, republican or democractic stance, it's an American stance because when people decide to just let someone piss all over the framework our founding fathers went hours constructing the there's seriously somehing wrong and the problem needs to be nippec in the bud immediately before it gets to the point where you no longer have any constitutional rights.
What Malik Shabazz did was wrong, and the fact that he reacted the way he did symbolize, if nothing else, that he doesn't know how to articulate his thoughts. However, for those who do and who can understand his point of view, he does have a right to feel the way he does about the situation.
And yes, Detroit has severe financial problems, but an EFM is not the answer to it when there are perfectly constitutional ways to address the.problem without tossing out elected officials, which may be illegal under Michigan's home rule act, and abolishing union contracts, which is something that should be handled in courts if the municipality s unable to meet their obligation in the contract.
Now, if you feel the legal processes and procedures in place now aren't sufficient enough for your objectives, then you first do what's necessary to change the processes and procedures. Michigan citizens had the opportunity to do so in 2010, and they didn't want to pay for it, thus our leaders and citizens must still abide by the rule of law in place, and they should be called out when they don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EASTSIDE CAT 67-83
Eastside Cat...after many years of what you just described I got out of Detroit and Michigan last month..I am so glad I did!!!!
Wherever you are, you will take your Detroit mentality with you and it will take a few months to let it go. You won't miss the sounds of gunfire at night or fearing to walk to your car in the morning. The peace and quiet of your area may keep you up, wondering why you aren't hearing all the noises of firetrucks and/or police cars speeding through your neighborhood. Then, your blood pressure will go down and you can breath a sigh of relief, knowing that you don't have to suspect your neighbors, you can go to the store, you can take a walk or ride a bike without being afraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by MidTownMs
If you were born and raised in Detroit, it will always be with you, but it will only be the memories of what Detroit once was...a vibrant and proud City of yesterday...not Detoilet of today. Good luck.
^^ Funny thing is, I hear more gunfire now [[a LOT more) out here in the sticks than I did in town. But, at least I have a pretty good idea they're not shooting at people.
Depends on your definition of 'people', perhaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddle
Heard y'all settle marital and familial disputes, facilitate neighbor communication, and execute parking violations with projectile weapons out there. You're one of them now, might as well get in on the fun.
Cheers!
Living in GPP, we get the best of both worlds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy American
The surreal nature of Stepford, merely blocks away from the gunfire.
I'm still not used to it. Been almost a few years now.
Cheers!
BuyAmer
"Wherever you are, you will take your Detroit mentality with you"
You hit the nail on the head Brother, I left Detroit over 20 years ago [[although I visit family every few years) and I still to this day have my Detroit mentality radar up at all times...I am suspect of everything and everybody, I plan my entry and exit into and out of every situation with military precision. The years I spent in the D have shaped my every move, its very sad because I live in a very safe area where my kids play without a care in the world...as it should be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannon
you have 5 years at best until your town is overrun.... Im in the Woods, thats my timeframe to move out [[of state)....
and
it's threads like these that get innocent victims like Trayvon killed
It only took two weeks for my blood pressure to go down. The only thing I see flying by my windows are beautiful hot air balloons not bullets. When I look out of my windows I see a beautiful mountain range. The only sirens I've heard are ambulance sirens which tells me that if you call them they will come...I am still trying to get over the fact that my car insurance [[same company same coverage) went from $800 every six months to $215 every six months...I have some wonderuful memories of Detroit because I grew up there in the 50's...but I also have some that I hope in time I will forget...Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy American
I think everyone needs a stern but fair reminder but not all of us residents of Detroit - for all our gripes - deal with virtually any of that. And not to throw stones, but you live in Warren, which is by no means on the up-and-up either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy American
I have fantastic neighbors. There was a garden club meeting across the street from me today while there was a barricaded gunman in Allen Park [[which is over 90% white and flat broke). I'm not saying things aren't bad - oh, they're bad - but get off your fucking high horses, suburbanites. I sat in my backyard all evening and heard nothing but the ice cream man and children playing. We're not all just hunkered down waiting for a quick end or a move to the suburbs. Lord knows how I'd love a postwar shitbox in south Warren, though.
The sounds of silence...it must be wonderful. I have peace and quiet in my neighorhood, but I have a feeling it won't be too long before we get the crud up here and will have to deal with it.
Wherever you are, it sounds like a place in Arizona I know well. It's nice to have a few dollars left after paying for insurance for both car and home. Like you, growing up in Detroit in the 50's gave me many memories to fall back on while I see what Detroit has become today.
Poo, why rain on my mellow moment with MidTownMis?Quote:
Originally Posted by poobert
I'm certainly not lumping every Detroiter into some of my posts. I'm sure that there are thousands of people in Detroit who don't want the city to be the cesspool that everyone thinks it is. However, the truth of the matter is that Detroit is at the bottom and people need to face reality.
Warren has it's fair share of problems. But, I can honestly say that I can sleep all through the night without hearing gunfire. I can sit on my front porch or back deck and hear the ice cream man and kids playing. I don't have to worry when my grandchildren come here that they have to stay inside because they may be struck by a stray bullet or they may be hit by a car being chased by other thugs or the police.
I don't think I'm on a high horse poo...I'm just telling it like it is. Unfortunately, some Detroiters don't want to face the real facts and don't want to admit there is a major problem with gang bangers and murderers, carjackers, drug dealers, and just plain killers for fun in Detroit. The problem is there, sorry if it angers you that some don't have to face those problems every single day of their lives.
Sounds like you are in a very nice neighborhood, but how is it getting to and from that Eutopia? Do you have to go through other, bad areas to get there?
Enjoy it while you can. We had that same scenario many years ago living in Detroit in our neighborhood. Today, I can't get down my old street because the thugs wouldn't move the basketball hoop from the middle of the intersection.
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/off_the_chain/the-mob-rules
So...where are the headlines about the driveby this morning on Grandville near Warren Ave [[48228)...no one prominent - only 3 teenagers....geez.......
I am in beautiful Santa Fe, New Mexico.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy American
Not only does everyone need to agree that there *is* a problem, that problem needs to be identified. And after it is identified the problem needs to be addressed. Currently all we do is address symptoms of the problem. And the popular methods tend to be more police and more jails. Well, thats an expensive proposition which does not address why there are huge numbers of people who don't seem to have the slightest desire to confirm to the average norms of John Q Public.Quote:
Originally Posted by corktownyuppie
This is true. The problem is that we can't even start working on long-term solutions to this problem while we're suffering from multiple trauma wounds that need urgent attention.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevgoblue
It's like a patient who's having a heart attack gets rushed to the hospital and the doctor says, "Have you tried diet and exercise?"
Education, stable environments for children, social services for the needy are important components of any long-term solution. Decreasing out-of-wedlock birthrate, ensuring compliance to pre-natal care, mental health services, etc....these are all critical.
But we can't work on any of that stuff if I'm worried about getting shot up en route to the community center where I'm volunteering to teach kids to read.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/man-fathered-30-kids-needs-break-child-support-140439765.html
This type of mentality is the biggest part of the problem in Detroit. Although this didn't happen here, it only shows that some black men don't mind planting their seed anywhere and with anyone and they don't care about what happens 9 months later. There are so many "fatherless" children being born in Detroit with mothers who are babies themselves, raised by whoever is available for a time and then left to fend for themselves. These kids are feral kids who grow up more or less in the wild and have to fend for themselves, they are the thugs of today and there will be many future thugs if something isn't done to stop this type of behavior. Some really drastic changes need to take place or Detroit will literally become a jungle of more and more savages preying on humans.
Charlie Leduff's most recent story makes an interesting point that makes sense when you consider it: officially, a crime hasn't occurred if it is not the subject of a "police report". The City has made it a LOT harder to make police reports with the closing of the precincts, with the requirement that most citizen reports be made by phone, etc. And when people do make a police report they often find that the nature of the reported crime is changed to something less important.
Personally, I made a police report last year about my mentally ill aggressive neighbor who jumped me and spit in my face. Nothing ever happened; I was never called re follow-up investigation. When I stopped in I was not allowed to speak to a detective and was told by a guy on the desk that "the DPD does not arrest handicapped people." ????
Also, the DPD now categorizes shootings in self-defense that result in death as something else than homicide. That lowers the homicide rate in Detroit big-time.
So, due to these policies - crime is way down - officially.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
You would have had to have worked in a jail to understand that.
On your other point.... it's kind of like unemployment numbers. They're down because people have stopped looking for work and have exhausted all benefits, not because they've gone back to work. They can make the numbers say anything they want the numbers to say.
Detroit has always fudged numbers to make things look rosey. During Devils Night, fires numbered in the hundreds...until the powers that be decided that they would not count garbage can fires, garage fires, car fires, then the numbers were drastically reduced and everyone was happy.
I read an interesting article today that stated that the youths who were responsible for the assault on Rosa Parks, Rev. Winans, Mother Anthony...they were completely ignorant and unaware of who these people were or their contributions to improving society.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buy American
We are dealing with a group of people for whom logic does not exist, and long-term thinking equals tomorrow.
I agree with the notion that these people need our help. Because although we can blame [[and rightfully so) them for their actions, the fact is that withholding help does not actual improve their situation or ours. That's why this is more than a crime issue or a jobs issue. It's also a mental health issue, and needs to be treated with education, addiction treatment, mental health treatment, etc.
At the same time, I feel compelled to reiterate that we also can't expect to give them aid unless those of us who are willing to do so feel secure. We need help in terms of police support and possibly military support in order to secure the city. Doing so can and should be done in conjunction with offering the social services that will -- over time -- decrease the burden on society caused by the mentally sick, sociopathic, the destructive, etc.
What makes me angry is that very few people are vocally advocating for both. One side says "more cops". Another side says "more money". Another side says "more jobs". Truth is that we probably need all 3. But we can't do anything while everyone is living in fear. Because once you get to that point, no one is willing to invest anything -- time or money. The easiest solution is just to move away, and that's what people have been doing.