Bing Calls for Emergency Financial Manager

http://www.freep.com/article/20111103/NEWS01/111030537/Mayor-Dave-Bing-Detroit-may-need-emergency-manager?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

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The City of Detroit is sliding closer to insolvency and may soon require the intervention of a state-appointed emergency manager, Mayor Dave Bing told council members behind closed doors, according to sources who were in the meeting.

As pension and health care costs continue to skyrocket, Bing said, the city is quickly running out of money.


Unions, which took 10% pay cuts last year, have refused to accept deep cuts in health care and pension costs.


The situation is dire, said mayoral spokesman Dan Lijana.


"If we don't get a handle on those costs, we can't solve the city's financial problems," Lijana said Wednesday. "We've cut the budget to the bone."

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I suppose we could spend time bashing Bing but he is not worth the time. After the $9 million dollar snafu and the problem with the buses, I think it is well known that Bing is way over his head trying to run a dysfunctional city like Detroit. The baller from Franklin thought he could stroll into Detroit and be its savior and now he is ready to cede control to a EM. I find this disgraceful because a leader shouldn't be so willing to surrender and that's what Bing is proposing to do. I wasted my vote not once but twice.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

and now he is ready to cede control to a EM.

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WJBK was speculating that the EFM would be Bing. Essentially he wants to remain in place but have unilateral decision making power.

Here is the "source"--Bing's one-on-one interview with Vickie Thomas Wednesday morning.

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2011/11/...t-may-need-efm

And, to be clear, Mayor Bing will have to ask the state treasurer to look at the city's books; Governor Snyder [[or his staff/appointees) can't just show up and start the process.

I think Bing would be in for a rude awakening if the time comes for an EFM. No way should he be given that role as the sitting mayor. Former city CFO Joe Harris has been the EFM for Benton Harbor for some time now and is almost done with that task - he's infinitely more qualified for the EFM role than Bing is.

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Originally Posted by 48091

WJBK was speculating that the EFM would be Bing. Essentially he wants to remain in place but have unilateral decision making power.

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Dave Bing is such a hilarious character. He and the City Council have already cut city services to the bone and now with added powers he want to end city services since you can only get so many cuts off a piece of steak.

How much have he and/or the clowncil cut their own salaries and expenses? Are they still all driving city owned cars and using body guards?

If i'm not mistaken Bing donates his entire salary to DPD.

You're all being ridiculous. Bing came in with huge deficits, illogical union contracts, and so many departments that were mismanaged that you cant count them all. You expect him to fix that in 2 and a half years?The $9.2 million lost was from decisions in the human services department made prior to January 31. The head of the department at the time, fired by Bing due to incompetence. The mayor has managed to regionalize cobo, regionalize water, cut costs [[sadly not enough yet) and actually begin to craft a plan to govern our city logically. It;s easy for us or council to just sit on the sidelines and monday morning quarterback what is clearly an incredibly hard job, but the fact is every decision is a lot more complicated than the media or council or the unions make it out to be. I would be supportive of a Dave Bing EFM because the city needs someone with that kind of power. We need to be able to change salaries and benefits or privatize services, but you cannot do that with existing contracts. Dave Bing as an EFM would be a blessing. The council can sit on their high horse and pretend that it would be Armageddon, but that's easy to do when you're not the one making the tough decisions. Mayor Bing has done a fantastic job in these two years, and I hope there are many more to come.

OH NO!!!!! City of Detroit going under receivership! I knew its going to happen. We Doomed, DOOMED!!

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Originally Posted by Flintoid

You're all being ridiculous. Bing came in with huge deficits, illogical union contracts, and so many departments that were mismanaged that you cant count them all. You expect him to fix that in 2 and a half years?The $9.2 million lost was from decisions in the human services department made prior to January 31. The head of the department at the time, fired by Bing due to incompetence. The mayor has managed to regionalize cobo, regionalize water, cut costs [[sadly not enough yet) and actually begin to craft a plan to govern our city logically. It;s easy for us or council to just sit on the sidelines and monday morning quarterback what is clearly an incredibly hard job, but the fact is every decision is a lot more complicated than the media or council or the unions make it out to be. I would be supportive of a Dave Bing EFM because the city needs someone with that kind of power. We need to be able to change salaries and benefits or privatize services, but you cannot do that with existing contracts. Dave Bing as an EFM would be a blessing. The council can sit on their high horse and pretend that it would be Armageddon, but that's easy to do when you're not the one making the tough decisions. Mayor Bing has done a fantastic job in these two years, and I hope there are many more to come.

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I suppose we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Detroit might need an EFM, but it should be someone entirely outside local politics. Not kidding, I'd put in John Engler. We need someone who doesn't need or want to make friends, unafraid to wield the axe. A city of 700,000+ people has more employees than the same city did, population 2M. I would hope that buyouts and attrition can take care of a lot of it, but Detroit needs many fewer workers. Seriously, Detroit has a level of services corresponding to having very few employees anyway, so why not make them pair up? Crumbling streets and sidewalks [[except our wonderful ADA compliant corners), unmaintained parks, retrenched and minimal policing, social services that don't keep kids safe. It doesn't take a lot of workers to not provide services. But back to the larger point, an EFM should not be Bing or anyone in current or recent Detroit or Wayne County government.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

A city of 700,000+ people has more employees than the same city did, population 2M. I would hope that buyouts and attrition can take care of a lot of it, but Detroit needs many fewer workers.

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Yup.

Everything about Detroit is DESIGNED to be inefficient. Why? Because inefficiency "creates" jobs.

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Originally Posted by Flintoid

You're all being ridiculous.

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OK, Mrs. Bing

It's been the Council pushing Bing to move faster and cut deeper since he's been elected. Bing has dithered and mismanaged for most of that time.

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Originally Posted by Flintoid

You're all being ridiculous. Bing came in with huge deficits, illogical union contracts, and so many departments that were mismanaged that you cant count them all. You expect him to fix that in 2 and a half years?The $9.2 million lost was from decisions in the human services department made prior to January 31. The head of the department at the time, fired by Bing due to incompetence. The mayor has managed to regionalize cobo, regionalize water, cut costs [[sadly not enough yet) and actually begin to craft a plan to govern our city logically. It;s easy for us or council to just sit on the sidelines and monday morning quarterback what is clearly an incredibly hard job, but the fact is every decision is a lot more complicated than the media or council or the unions make it out to be. I would be supportive of a Dave Bing EFM because the city needs someone with that kind of power. We need to be able to change salaries and benefits or privatize services, but you cannot do that with existing contracts. Dave Bing as an EFM would be a blessing. The council can sit on their high horse and pretend that it would be Armageddon, but that's easy to do when you're not the one making the tough decisions. Mayor Bing has done a fantastic job in these two years, and I hope there are many more to come.

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Great post.

Like a Phoenix, we shall rise from the ashes.

I have begun to wonder if maybe this situation is a bit like bankruptcy for GM. No one wanted it. They said it would be the death of the company. But a couple of years later, things don't look so bad do they? Maybe we really do need someone to come in and tear things apart so that they can be put back together in a new way... a way that paves the path to long term prosperity.

Charles Pugh today in the Free Press states Detroit doesnt need a emergency manager as they can solve the problems themselves. Mr. Pugh doesnt make any sense, He says they can solve the problems themselves, yet , as usual , council block Bing on most things.. Then Pugh says the first thing to do is negotiate more with the unions ??? Hello???
What do you think Bing has done,, they have been negotiated down to the point where they wont anymore,, Where has he been??? This guy really needs to do his homework. Bing has made some mistakes but I think overall he is miles ahead of KingKwame and his gang of thieves. Bing has enormous obstacles to overcome, mostly built up by previous administrations, as well as a major sucker punch with the economic state of the city and state in the last several years. No matter what he does he gets major criticism.. Id luv to see the person who can solve all of these issues,, There isnt one. I dont think there is anyone out there who can deal with this situation better than Bing, [[ that would run for mayor that is)

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Originally Posted by DetBill

Charles Pugh today in the Free Press states Detroit doesnt need a emergency manager as they can solve the problems themselves. Mr. Pugh doesnt make any sense, He says they can solve the problems themselves, yet , as usual , council block Bing on most things.

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Pugh, who went through bankruptcy, is not who I would go to for budgeting advice, nor would I have voted for him because of his own financial insolvency.

Here's the thing: Detroit don't need an emergency manager, it needs a bailout plain and simple. Many of us have heard the Republicans talking point of "we have a spending problem" so much we really believe that Bing or some EM can enact so many spending cuts or layoffs that Detroit would be back in the Black. Not going to happen. Detroit has too much generational debt. It is time that Detroit is treated like General Motors circa 2009.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Here's the thing: Detroit don't need an emergency manager, it needs a bailout plain and simple. Many of us have heard the Republicans talking point of "we have a spending problem" so much we really believe that Bing or some EM can enact so many spending cuts or layoffs that Detroit would be back in the Black. Not going to happen. Detroit has too much generational debt. It is time that Detroit is treated like General Motors circa 2009.

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But just a bailout won't do it though. They need to fundamentally go through the entire government and eliminate waste, get out businesses they don't belong in, and get fair labor contracts.

1. Eliminate Detroit Public Lights; put all buildings on DTE grid
2. Take D-DOT and DPM and make them part of an autonomous regional authority combined with SMART
3. Eliminate other unneeded departments. For example, here are some REAL city department names from Detroit's website:

Culture
Detroit Film Office
Detroit Workforce Development Department
Health & Wellness Promotion Department
Neighborhood City Halls [[now Community Access Centers)

Guess what, if you can't fund this kind of stuff, then you need to cut it.

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Originally Posted by 48091

But just a bailout won't do it though. They need to fundamentally go through the entire government and eliminate waste, get out businesses they don't belong in, and get fair labor contracts.

1. Eliminate Detroit Public Lights; put all buildings on DTE grid
2. Take D-DOT and DPM and make them part of an autonomous regional authority combined with SMART
3. Eliminate other unneeded departments. For example, here are some REAL city department names from Detroit's website:

Culture
Detroit Film Office
Detroit Workforce Development Department
Health & Wellness Promotion Department
Neighborhood City Halls [[now Community Access Centers)

Guess what, if you can't fund this kind of stuff, then you need to cut it.

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I don't disagree with you but any kind of reorganization like Detroit Public Lights is going to require funds and Detroit don't have it.

Bailout! Hell no. Detroit needs to declare bankruptcy, because it is. The court needs to appoint a bankruptcy master who will then void all obligations and debts and pay the creditors on a rational basis. Of course, this will mean a lot of pain for a lot of people [[think Greece). The bond holders will get a few pennies on the dollar. The mayor and city council will not be paid and will line up with all the creditors. Everyone will take a big haircut. All the years of financial mismanagement and corruption will fall on the people that deserve it; the electorate of the City of Detroit. We are the ones who elected the buffoons that brought us to where we are. This thread will be replete with screams about the Republicans and inadequate state funding, the economy, the needs of the poor, crime, bad infrastructure, on and on....

The problem is clear and it is us..

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I don't disagree with you but any kind of reorganization like Detroit Public Lights is going to require funds and Detroit don't have it.

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That is true. That particular item will require capital because DTE won't want to just takeover Detroit's screwed up, unreliable system.

I've had to explain to my wife several times why no traffic lights were working downtown and why some buildings, like my building, had power, while all the government buildings went without.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

Detroit might need an EFM, but it should be someone entirely outside local politics. Not kidding, I'd put in John Engler.

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the same engler who gave away the state's money to his cronies? who spent us into a major hole his last year in office and set up policies to make it impossible for any successor to succeed? THAT john engler? what are you smoking?

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Originally Posted by river rat

Bailout! Hell no. Detroit needs to declare bankruptcy, because it is. The court needs to appoint a bankruptcy master who will then void all obligations and debts and pay the creditors on a rational basis. Of course, this will mean a lot of pain for a lot of people [[think Greece). The bond holders will get a few pennies on the dollar. The mayor and city council will not be paid and will line up with all the creditors. Everyone will take a big haircut. All the years of financial mismanagement and corruption will fall on the people that deserve it; the electorate of the City of Detroit. We are the ones who elected the buffoons that brought us to where we are. This thread will be replete with screams about the Republicans and inadequate state funding, the economy, the needs of the poor, crime, bad infrastructure, on and on....

The problem is clear and it is us..

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Everything you posted looks good but if you think a municipality like Detroit could file for bankruptcy and not get a bailout you need to go back to 2009.

There would be a huge national pushback against a bailout because most don't know the difference and can't distinguish between the auto companies and the city.

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Originally Posted by lilpup

There would be a huge national pushback against a bailout because most don't know the difference and can't distinguish between the auto companies and the city.

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And this is why Bing as a "leader" have to ignore the pushback and do what's best for Detroit.

"But just a bailout won't do it though. They need to fundamentally go through the entire government and eliminate waste, get out businesses they don't belong in, and get fair labor contracts."

Have you ever gone through the city's budget? Most of this stuff is nickle-and-dime budget savings. Some of those departments get federal funding and eliminating them only eliminates services to residents, it doesn't save the city much, if anything ins savings. I'm not going to make the case that anything works well in Detroit city government. It doesn't. But no one can fix a city government like Detroit where the needs of the residents are so great, the level of services needed are so high and the revenues to provide those services are far less than what is needed.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"But just a bailout won't do it though. They need to fundamentally go through the entire government and eliminate waste, get out businesses they don't belong in, and get fair labor contracts."

Have you ever gone through the city's budget? Most of this stuff is nickle-and-dime budget savings. Some of those departments get federal funding and eliminating them only eliminates services to residents, it doesn't save the city much, if anything ins savings. I'm not going to make the case that anything works well in Detroit city government. It doesn't. But no one can fix a city government like Detroit where the needs of the residents are so great, the level of services needed are so high and the revenues to provide those services are far less than what is needed.

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Yes, but nickle and dimes add up. I agree that federally funded stuff should stay running. However, it just amazes me how much services cost per resident in Detroit when compared to other cities. Detroit manages to make almost every service more expensive.

I have to partly agree with what Flintoid is saying... it took over 40 years for Detroit to get into this mess... 2 years sure ain't gonna cut it for geting out of it. However, would I want Bing as the EFM... no.

And even voiding all contracts pensions, etc. There's a serious price to pay for that kind of drastic cut for Policemen and Firemen especially... Imagine responding to a "serious" 911 call if you just found out your future pension just went down the toilet. You think response time is bad right now..... :mad:

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Originally Posted by Gistok

I have to partly agree with what Flintoid is saying... it took over 40 years for Detroit to get into this mess... 2 years sure ain't gonna cut it for geting out of it. However, would I want Bing as the EFM... no.

And even voiding all contracts pensions, etc. There's a serious price to pay for that kind of drastic cut for Policemen and Firemen especially... Imagine responding to a "serious" 911 call if you just found out your future pension just went down the toilet. You think response time is bad right now..... :mad:

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The issues that I have with his comments is that some people believe what works with a business can work with a municipality and that is not possible. With a company, a hatchet man can cut and fire and the only people affected are the people who jobs and benefits are at risk. With a municipality, you're talking about thousands of people affected if a EM was to cut services and throw out union contracts.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

With a company, a hatchet man can cut and fire and the only people affected are the people who jobs and benefits are at risk. With a municipality, you're talking about thousands of people affected if a EM was to cut services and throw out union contracts.

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I don't see the big differences. My company has thousands of people, and when the economy hit a rough spot our pay was frozen immediately, benefits were trimmed and eliminated [[including all 401k matching), our Cadillac medical plans have gone away, and there was an immediate hiring freeze. We also had a 25% workforce layoff.

However, our company survived and flourished because we adapted quickly.

Government on the other hand is very slow to react. It's locked into union contracts, and even when those contracts are up for negotiation they always want more, regardless of the economy.

The police department needs to be restructured. Get civilians doing civilian jobs. Get cops on the streets.

Keep in mind that CORE SERVICES are the most important. Police and fire, absolute core services. They need to make those services more efficient, and make big cuts to other services including outsourcing where it makes sense.

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Originally Posted by 48091

I don't see the big differences. My company has thousands of people, and when the economy hit a rough spot our pay was frozen immediately, benefits were trimmed and eliminated [[including all 401k matching), our Cadillac medical plans have gone away, and there was an immediate hiring freeze. We also had a 25% workforce layoff.

However, our company survived and flourished because we adapted quickly.

Government on the other hand is very slow to react. It's locked into union contracts, and even when those contracts are up for negotiation they always want more, regardless of the economy.

The police department needs to be restructured. Get civilians doing civilian jobs. Get cops on the streets.

Keep in mind that CORE SERVICES are the most important. Police and fire, absolute core services. They need to make those services more efficient, and make big cuts to other services including outsourcing where it makes sense.

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I'm sorry, I should have said "hundreds of thousand of residents." Thanks for verifying my point. Companies can go radical. Municipalities can not.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I'm sorry, I should have said "hundreds of thousand of residents." Thanks for verifying my point. Companies can go radical. Municipalities can not.

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I agree the service cuts will effect residents. However, the important thing is to strengthen core services through increased efficiency, and to cut non-core services.

The idea is that they should have been doing this all along, and thus having a smaller, more efficient government would be much easier than hacking off the fat while trying not to hit an artery.

If the residents of Detroit so dearly want these services then they need to elect leaders that will either:

1) Fix them
or 2) Raises taxes so the union employees can never be effected by the recession

Isn't Bing in the midst of a bargaining process with the DDOT union or something like that? He's played this card before...

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Originally Posted by 48091

I agree the service cuts will effect residents. However, the important thing is to strengthen core services through increased efficiency, and to cut non-core services.

The idea is that they should have been doing this all along, and thus having a smaller, more efficient government would be much easier than hacking off the fat while trying not to hit an artery.

If the residents of Detroit so dearly want these services then they need to elect leaders that will either:

1) Fix them
or 2) Raises taxes so the union employees can never be effected by the recession

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I am sure many Detroiters like myself agree with fixing what is wrong in Detroit but what cost? The mayor and City Council have already cut EVERYTHING to the bone. The only thing left to do is eliminate.

Just when Detroit was starting to make a comeback, the ball is about to drop...MAYBE?

If this does happen do you think it'll affect people's decisions to move to the city and especially buy ANYTHING in the city? I was planning on buying and until I know the results and affect of having an EFM, I'll likely hold off.

Detroit seems to always miss the boom by about 20 minutes.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I am sure many Detroiters like myself agree with fixing what is wrong in Detroit but what cost? The mayor and City Council have already cut EVERYTHING to the bone. The only thing left to do is eliminate.

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They haven't cut stupid, incompentent, lazy and hostile city employees to the bone. There are plenty left and I seem to encounter them all too often.

Fire two incompentent lay-abouts each earning $35K + benefits, hire one effective employee at $50K + benefits. You've saved money and provided better service to citizens.

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Originally Posted by Flintoid

You're all being ridiculous. Bing came in with huge deficits, illogical union contracts, and so many departments that were mismanaged that you cant count them all. You expect him to fix that in 2 and a half years?The $9.2 million lost was from decisions in the human services department made prior to January 31. The head of the department at the time, fired by Bing due to incompetence. The mayor has managed to regionalize cobo, regionalize water, cut costs [[sadly not enough yet) and actually begin to craft a plan to govern our city logically. It;s easy for us or council to just sit on the sidelines and monday morning quarterback what is clearly an incredibly hard job, but the fact is every decision is a lot more complicated than the media or council or the unions make it out to be. I would be supportive of a Dave Bing EFM because the city needs someone with that kind of power. We need to be able to change salaries and benefits or privatize services, but you cannot do that with existing contracts. Dave Bing as an EFM would be a blessing. The council can sit on their high horse and pretend that it would be Armageddon, but that's easy to do when you're not the one making the tough decisions. Mayor Bing has done a fantastic job in these two years, and I hope there are many more to come.

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Bing has to adopt the philosiphy of his late fellow democrat Harry Truman; "the buck stops here"

I think if an EFM comes on board a lot of city assets will be shed. Not only will that generate a bit of revenue but the city will also shed the maintenance expenses.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I am sure many Detroiters like myself agree with fixing what is wrong in Detroit but what cost? The mayor and City Council have already cut EVERYTHING to the bone. The only thing left to do is eliminate.

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I understand what you're saying, but simply put, it's Detroit's problem. You guys have to balance your budget. As a Warren resident, I don't care how you do that. So you either have to further cut services, or raise your taxes. It's that simple.

Yes, you guys can do the whole screw your creditors thing, but that's not going to solve your issues, because in addition to a large rolling debt, you have annual debt.

I still think there's plenty of room to cut.

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Originally Posted by 48091

I understand what you're saying, but simply put, it's Detroit's problem. You guys have to balance your budget. As a Warren resident, I don't care how you do that. So you either have to further cut services, or raise your taxes. It's that simple.

Yes, you guys can do the whole screw your creditors thing, but that's not going to solve your issues, because in addition to a large rolling debt, you have annual debt.

I still think there's plenty of room to cut.

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I like your approach. So, if the city was to raise the cost pumping water to the suburbs to let's say double the cost, you would have no issue paying higher water rates? I suppose if we had to raise taxes then the city should increase the water rates claiming that the cost of cleaning and pumping the water out just cost too much.

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Originally Posted by 48091

Pugh, who went through bankruptcy, is not who I would go to for budgeting advice, nor would I have voted for him because of his own financial insolvency.

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Totally agree, we're suppose to take financial advice from a guy who couldn't get enough credit to buy a salt shaker.

"Keep in mind that CORE SERVICES are the most important. Police and fire, absolute core services. They need to make those services more efficient, and make big cuts to other services including outsourcing where it makes sense."

Police and Fire are the most expensive part of almost every city budget. It's as true in Warren as it is in Detroit. You want to cut costs in the city's budget? It means laying off cops and firefighters and slashing the benefits and pensions for those who are left.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I like your approach. So, if the city was to raise the cost pumping water to the suburbs to let's say double the cost, you would have no issue paying higher water rates? I suppose if we had to raise taxes then the city should increase the water rates claiming that the cost of cleaning and pumping the water out just cost too much.

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Our rates have been going up 9 and 10% at a time, we're used to increases.

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Originally Posted by Novine

Police and Fire are the most expensive part of almost every city budget. It's as true in Warren as it is in Detroit. You want to cut costs in the city's budget? It means laying off cops and firefighters and slashing the benefits and pensions for those who are left.

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If you want to pretend there's no where to cut but police and fire, then fine; but you're wrong. Also, there are HUGE inefficiencies in the police department. Detroit has a HUGE amount of structure. Detroit also has a lot of cops that aren't solving crimes, but sit at desks doing jobs civilians could do. Do they care? Hell no, they're making big money and don't even have to go out there and get dirty.

Novine, keep in mind that if you think there's nowhere else to trim, then that means you're for a tax increase.

The city must balance it's budget. So you either have to spend less, or tax more, or a combination of those two.

[QUOTE=rb336;282211]the same engler who gave away the state's money to his cronies? who spent us into a major hole his last year in office and set up policies to make it impossible for any successor to succeed? THAT john engler? what are you smoking?[/QUOTE

No, not that John Engler. The Engler that closed near-empty mental hospitals to virtual burnings in effigy. Didn't care that he was hated. It was the only logical step. The Engler that replaced property taxes with sales taxes, which keeps revenues roughly in line with inflation. The Engler who as a young politician enthusiastically backed the Headlee Amendment, which has mercifully prevented Michigan from spending on the scale of New York, Illinois, and California. That Engler.

I only overeat; I smoke nothing.

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Originally Posted by 48091

If you want to pretend there's no where to cut but police and fire, then fine; but you're wrong. Also, there are HUGE inefficiencies in the police department. Detroit has a HUGE amount of structure. Detroit also has a lot of cops that aren't solving crimes, but sit at desks doing jobs civilians could do. Do they care? Hell no, they're making big money and don't even have to go out there and get dirty.

Novine, keep in mind that if you think there's nowhere else to trim, then that means you're for a tax increase.

The city must balance it's budget. So you either have to spend less, or tax more, or a combination of those two.

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The "No Snitch" policy that many of Detroiters have is one of the major reasons that the police and detectives are not solving crimes. That is why the Tamara Greene case was thrown out. I think that some of the cuts that council had made was cuts that an EFM probably would not had made. I don't trust the Mayor and the council on their decisions pertaining to the cuts that were made

Harris did a good job as EFM in Benton Harbor. City services are better now than they were before the EFM was appointed, and I think they are out of a deficit position or getting close to it.

Detroit should try an EFM before bankruptcy. I'm not sure one person could do it alone, though, it is a far bigger organization than Benton Harbor.

If Harris gets the Detroit EFM job, I will be cheering him on.

Bing should not be the EFM. In fact no sitting mayor should be eligible to be EFM as it disincentives him/her to avoid receivership, since the reward for failure is absolute power. And what politician doesn't want that?

In addition, he's demonstrated enormous incompetence during his tenure. Just look at the number of appointees he's lost - and this is an area in which he had total control. Neither the council nor the unions have any say in his choice of appointees. He's made these choices on his own and his revolving door has continued the tradition of instability in the governance of Detroit which we have lived with ever since the text messages were uncovered.

He's been a complete phantom as mayor, virtually invisible, never talks to community groups at all. Unlike Coleman Young, his roots in this community just aren't deep enough to sustain that level of detachment. [[Coleman rarely came out of the Manoogian during his last two terms.) If Snyder rewards his incompetence and detachment with a promotion to absolute dictator there will be huge pushback. Continued cutbacks in services, layoffs all presided over by a guy who failed acts like a colonial administrator. That will make for an interesting summer next year.

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Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Harris did a good job as EFM in Benton Harbor. City services are better now than they were before the EFM was appointed, and I think they are out of a deficit position or getting close to it.

Detroit should try an EFM before bankruptcy. I'm not sure one person could do it alone, though, it is a far bigger organization than Benton Harbor.

If Harris gets the Detroit EFM job, I will be cheering him on.

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Seriously, you comparing Benton Harbor with Detroit? A city with 4 and 1/2 sq. miles compared to Detroit's 143 sq miles.

Hey Everygreen, while being a rightwing urbanite myself, I do agree with just about everything you said about Mayor Bing. He seems to be in over his head. He does not seem to have a real constituaency in the city. I was, in fact, rather surprised when he ran for mayor. Neither his business nor his home were in the city. Carpetbagging isn't pretty, no matter who does it. I had just moved to NY when Hilary ran for the Senate. I was like, really? 18M NYers and they get someone from Illinois/Arkansas to run? Bing should at least have lived here for awhile before running. Also, you are entirely correct about power: the idea of an EFM is that it is someone who comes in, does the dirty work, and then leaves. It is not to enhance the power of someone who failed to fix the problems. The next successful mayor will be one who leaves government vastly smaller and transformed. We might not get a successful mayor, however. I don't hear anyone on the council or in public in Detroit standing up and saying, "We can only dig our way out by vastly cutting services and firing lots of people." Detroit has cancer, and no one will tell the patient that we need radical surgery followed by chemo and radiation. So the patient will live on for now, sickly and in pain.

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Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn

. The next successful mayor will be one who leaves government vastly smaller and transformed. We might not get a successful mayor, however. I don't hear anyone on the council or in public in Detroit standing up and saying, "We can only dig our way out by vastly cutting services and firing lots of people." Detroit has cancer, and no one will tell the patient that we need radical surgery followed by chemo and radiation. So the patient will live on for now, sickly and in pain.

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Not sure if you have noticed but....
--the grass in many parks was not cut.
--street lights are out in many parts of the city.
--DDOT is the pits
--EMS is slow because of broken down vehicles
--Water and Sewerage is slow to respond to leaks

This is the result of cuts, cuts, cuts and yes when you cut you eliminate jobs which cut services because the reduction of employees forces a reduction in services. This idea that Detroit can see better days by cutting is not going to happen. The mayor and City Council have cut and cut and cut the same piece of steak and the knives are getting dull cutting bone.

R8RBOB, I am not trying to argue that Detroit services are now or were recently even slightly respectable. We get crappy services, yes I agree. But there is no prospect for more money. As I posted in another thread tonight, though, no tax or fee increase that could be enacted would rectify the city's fiscal problems. The city has more government than it can afford [[quality of that government or value of individual programs is moot). And the cost of decades of more government than it can afford [[and thus high debt service payments) is unsustainable. Detroit can't afford Detroit's government. That will NEVER change until the city spends a lot less, restructures it's services for the revenue it can raise, cuts rate of growth of programs and salaries [[and benefits) to the rate of inflation, and uses all "one shot" revenue for debt reduction. I don't think Lansing or Washington is likely to cut us a fat check to pay our bills. Nor should they. Detroit's irresponsible spending got Detroit in it's hole. And, I doubt that a billion dollar check would even help. The city would just use it to pay for things it can't really afford. It reminds of big lottery winners who end up in bankruptcy. Solvency and prosperity are not about a specific amount of money; they are demonstrated by smart management of what you do have. We will only have crisis management budgeting in the future until the city wakes up and smells the coffee. No grand public works or innovative urban policies for us in the remainder of the 21st Century. All new and cool things will come from outside of Detroit city government, or not at all.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Seriously, you comparing Benton Harbor with Detroit? A city with 4 and 1/2 sq. miles compared to Detroit's 143 sq miles.

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Normally I wouldn't be so inclined but given that it's Joe Harris, who knows Detroit's problems inside out, I have no problem with it.

As far as cutting services - crap attitude employees kill workplaces. Even if just to lousy workers went, leaving a reduced staff, the morale of those who remain would be substantially improved and they'd be more productive. There's little worse in the workplace than having to carry and clean up after the company turds while not getting the recognition deserved because they're in the way.

Haven't read many of the posts, here, but my intial reaction from reading the articles, yesterday:

- It seems that Bing uses the threat of an EFM everytime he wants something in particular done, and he usually gets it. It's going to be very hard to tell when he's telling the truth about the city's finances when he cries wolf so much.

- Bing, whether you like him personally or not, has shown and proven on numerous occassions that there is no way he should be appointed EFM. Someone said above that incumbent mayors should be barred from becoming EFMs of their own cities and I completely agree for philosophical reasons.

- Some departments and services do need to be privatized or regionalized with the county, period, and it needs to be done now. Payroll and public lighting get brought up, and I'd definitely agree with unloading their costs.

- I said it in a long thread, but if you're losing nearly 2,000 of your city's resident a month, there is no way you'll EVER be able to cut services fast enough to catch up with that. Never. In many cities, spending really is the issue with the budget. Hell, even growing cities face budget problems. Detroit's central problem isn't its spending but the physical loss of its tax base first and foremost.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Seriously, you comparing Benton Harbor with Detroit? A city with 4 and 1/2 sq. miles compared to Detroit's 143 sq miles.

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Yes, because many of the management problems are the same. Harris came from Detroit.

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Originally Posted by Dexlin

Haven't read many of the posts, here, but my intial reaction from reading the articles, yesterday:

- It seems that Bing uses the threat of an EFM everytime he wants something in particular done, and he usually gets it. It's going to be very hard to tell when he's telling the truth about the city's finances when he cries wolf so much.

- Bing, whether you like him personally or not, has shown and proven on numerous occassions that there is no way he should be appointed EFM. Someone said above that incumbent mayors should be barred from becoming EFMs of their own cities and I completely agree for philosophical reasons.

- Some departments and services do need to be privatized or regionalized with the county, period, and it needs to be done now. Payroll and public lighting get brought up, and I'd definitely agree with unloading their costs.

- I said it in a long thread, but if you're losing nearly 2,000 of your city's resident a month, there is no way you'll EVER be able to cut services fast enough to catch up with that. Never. In many cities, spending really is the issue with the budget. Hell, even growing cities face budget problems. Detroit's central problem isn't its spending but the physical loss of its tax base first and foremost.

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If Dave Bing attempts to run for reelection, I pray someone with a steady hand and a backbone runs so I won't have to vote for Bing. Bing may be a former businessman but his leadership skills are at best suspect. You are correct how Bing uses the EM card when he wants something done.

I could not see Snyder appointing Bing as the EM because it would be unethical. Period

I think it is time for Wayne County to help its seat. Services that Detroit can no longer can maintained should be rolled under the county to give Detroit a chance to stabilize their core services.

As for cuts, well I as told MikeyinBrooklyn, you can only cut only so much until you have nothing left to cut except bone. Bing and City Council have cut to the bone and they know there is no meat remaining because as you stated we have no tax base. So what do you do when there is no more meat on the bone? You can suck the bone hoping to get the taste of meat on your tongue or look for marrow but in the end, you will have toss the bone in the garbage. In reference to Detroit, that means elimination of services bring true pain to hundreds of thousands of Detroiters.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

...In reference to Detroit, that means elimination of services bring true pain to hundreds of thousands of Detroiters.

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Or reorganization in which case residents may see an improvement in services.

There may be layoffs, however

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Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Or reorganization in which case residents may see an improvement in services.

There may be layoffs, however

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Reorganization!!!! Now why do you wanna make me laugh? Reorganization come first, then cutting and if that don't work then elimination.

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Originally Posted by DetBill

Charles Pugh today in the Free Press states Detroit doesnt need a emergency manager as they can solve the problems themselves. Mr. Pugh doesnt make any sense, He says they can solve the problems themselves, yet , as usual , council block Bing on most things.. Then Pugh says the first thing to do is negotiate more with the unions ??? Hello???
What do you think Bing has done,, they have been negotiated down to the point where they wont anymore,, Where has he been??? This guy really needs to do his homework. Bing has made some mistakes but I think overall he is miles ahead of KingKwame and his gang of thieves. Bing has enormous obstacles to overcome, mostly built up by previous administrations, as well as a major sucker punch with the economic state of the city and state in the last several years. No matter what he does he gets major criticism.. Id luv to see the person who can solve all of these issues,, There isnt one. I dont think there is anyone out there who can deal with this situation better than Bing, [[ that would run for mayor that is)

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You need to do your homework. For the last couple of years has council proposed deeper budget cuts than the mayor and he vetoed them saying they were too much. Now he wants to be EFM? It's Bing who's been far less agressive in trying to cut the budget

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaDUvbHvUoI