Artefacing diverts limited volunteer efforts to virtually useless art project

Two webpages on the topic. The first is the article, the second is a photo-slide.
http://detnews.com/article/20110919/...with-neighbors
and
http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/ph...y/091811spire/

I think those people should have been dispersed by the police.
They do not own the property.
I could imagine them questioning the common sense of dispersing them if they were actually boarding up windows, cutting grass, landscaping, and repainting the house.
The building is 'abandoned', meaning the owner does not reside there, but trust me all property has an owner. Perhaps they should buy the property and spend rennovate or demolish it.

Here is some questions:
Who is going to maintain this 'art installation'?
What will it look like after the first snow?
Will the materials get loose and become common wind-blown trash?

Detroit needs people to purchase and rennovate homes, thus reducing blight, creating economic density, and inspiring neighborhoods.
If that is not possible, at least board up and secure empty propertys, perhaps without permission.
But please, don't divert the little good will the city gets from outsiders to erecting tire heaps.

Right now there are Tibetin Prayer flags blowing in the wind over Junction Ave. have been there for years. Look great.Life, movement, color. I saw some similar flags in Eatern Market stalls Saturday.

These comments are just what some east-siders complain about the Guyton installations - and he is not an "outsider."

Do you think the real problem is that the artists were too white and the residents think they'll be displaced by those outsiders?

It looks like the home of an enterprising squatter trying to make a quick buck selling used tires.

I don't think there is an easy answer for this.

Look at Guyton. The city and some locals tried to destroy him with all their might. Most people, I think, would view the HP as a "success". It has become an international landmark and truly unique art. I may be mistaken, but did Tyree own at least some of the houses he dolled up?

Odkie is a pretty solid guy and I think he speaks for plenty of people that the city is not some sort of blank canvass. Some of us actually live here and are not just passing through. Try pulling this shit in the suburbs, or anywhere for that matter. Sure this is remotely tasteful, but the same mentality comes with all the grafitti "art" that appears on anything and everything, "in use" or not. And then we have to deal with it.

Nice to see some community groups speaking out and that actually exist in that zip. However I know too well the type of residents not involved in their community organizations who do absolutely nothing - nothing - for the community except bitch. Often they don't even maintain their own property. Sure it's your community, but what are you doing for it?

I think the tires are awful but the flags seem okay [[how is it that everyone under 30 except me is a Buddhist now all of a sudden?). There could be more sensitivity here. The group should do some PR work and go clean up some fucked up houses or something as a gesture of goodwill. Otherwise it really is just a playground for whoever from Lake Orion in the pictures.

All that said, this is Chene street. CHENE. Have they SEEN Chene? A tornado could hit Chene and it would probably make things look at least marginally better. If I am correct there are approximately 2 businesses open from Mack to i-94 on Chene, one being a liquor store and another being a church for recovering addicts. I thought there was a shooting range too, maybe? Come on people. This isn't the fucking Champs-Elysees.

Pole, you crack me up with the tornado analogy "have they seen Chene" ROTF.

I dont think this art project is newsworthy.

I do think with a little brainstorming the prayer flags could have been done somehow more tastefully without pissin off the neighbors. Old tires, really?

Every artist has their failures though, I wish them luck and hope they spend lots of money while here in Detroit.

Swamp,

No one is worried about being displaced.
None of the volunteers are moving to the area.
In fact, I [[and probably the locals) would applaud them for moving to the area and making a real difference by purchasing and rennovating local homes.

I don't blame the locals for not liking it. It looks like a cross between a circus and a used car lot on Michigan Avenue out in the Inkster Wayne area.

This is always a complex topic, and is a repeat of the Heidelberg Project. The complexity I am referring to is what do you do when the local people do not like what you are doing in their neighborhood? Do you say "Great art is always contraversial", and then just ride roughshod over the poor people you are allegedly trying to help? That sounds an awful lot like what city government and businesses do to poor people.

It is like they are saying, "I'm sorry, you have no rights, you have no taste, you do not even know what is in your own best interests."

Google Streetview of the house

Ehh, let them do their thing. It can't make the area look any worse.

And LOL at the photo they used for the article. Hahahahahah.

Attachment 10696

Given the booming number of foreclosures in the region I wonder if the people from Walled Lake and Lake Orion would mind if I choose an empty house on their street for my own art installation.

The claim that this is to bring about awareness of social issues is utter horseshit. I'd be curious to know how many social/community organizations these people participate in to help those less fortunate or blighted areas [[city, suburb or rural) and how much money they donate to help social causes.

If I'm a betting person my money says that this was nothing but an afternoon of playground fun for them with a bullshit statement tied to it so they can feel good about themselves.

Now let's pack up those tires and take them to the participants homes in Lake Orion and Walled Lake. We can tie some bullshit social commentary to it and tell them it is art and they should be glad we are doing it.

Fuck them and their bullshit 'cause'. People's poverty and despair is not the appropriate setting for their playground.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RickBeall

This is always a complex topic, and is a repeat of the Heidelberg Project. The complexity I am referring to is what do you do when the local people do not like what you are doing in their neighborhood? Do you say "Great art is always contraversial", and then just ride roughshod over the poor people you are allegedly trying to help? That sounds an awful lot like what city government and businesses do to poor people.

It is like they are saying, "I'm sorry, you have no rights, you have no taste, you do not even know what is in your own best interests."

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At least the Heidelberg Project was Guyton's neighborhood. He had to deal with it day in and day out and was vested in the area, not just having fun at another neighborhood's expense. I don't agree with the project but he had to deal with the neighborhood everyday unlike these assholes who swoop in, have fun, feel like they've saved those poor ghetto souls and swoop home to their comfortable surroundings that would never, ever allow this stuff to happen.

Tyree Guyton obtained permission from owners before installing his art.
I seriously doubt Artefacting obtained permission.

Here's the story from the artists' point of view: Artefacting Detroit.

detroit art talk. Half of what you see on city streets these days is done by out of towners. Detroit is the destination for graffiti tourists. International and across the nation. Many are sponsored by art spray paint companies. Get expensive high pigment spray paint for free and lots of it. They bring with em a lot of skill. I kno how you folks feel about rap letters tho

C'mon I can't be the only one who thought of this book with those pictures

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/full...e-people-like/

Quote:

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#18 Awareness

interesting fact about white people is that they firmly believe that all of the world’s problems can be solved through “awareness.” Meaning the process of making other people aware of problems, and then magically someone else like the government will fix it.
This belief allows them to feel that sweet self-satisfaction without actually having to solve anything or face any difficult challenges. Because, the only challenge of raising awareness is people not being aware. In a worst case scenario, if you fail someone doesn’t know about the problem. End of story.
What makes this even more appealing for white people is that you can raise “awareness” through expensive dinners, parties, marathons, selling t-shirts, fashion shows, concerts, eating at restaurants and bracelets. In other words, white people just have to keep doing stuff they like, EXCEPT now they can feel better about making a difference.
Raising awareness is also awesome because once you raise awareness to an acceptable, aribtrary level, you can just back off and say “Bam! did my part. Now it’s your turn. Fix it.”
So to summarize – you get all the benefits of helping [[self satisfaction, telling other people) but no need for difficult decisions or the ensuing criticism [[how do you criticize awareness?). Once again, white people find a way to score that sweet double victory.
Popular things to be aware of: The Environment, Diseases like Cancer and AIDS, Africa, Poverty, Anorexia, Homophobia, Midde School Field Hockey/Lacrosse teams, Drug Rehab, and political prisoners.

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#62 Knowing what’s best for poor people

White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.

They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.

It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.

A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the ‘whiter’ option. “Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years.” White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.

But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.

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Originally Posted by majohnson

Tyree Guyton obtained permission from owners before installing his art.
I seriously doubt Artefacting obtained permission.

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Thats the Heidelberg guy right? Put polka-dots all over shit on the street on the lower near eastside. I'm gonna take a guess and say its a decent chance he is also the one that put polkadots all over abandoned shit and utility boxes across the city a decade back. I'm sure i'm not the only one that noticed them dots on abandoned storefronts, homes, and other stuff. You know he didn't have permission to do that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jt1

Given the booming number of foreclosures in the region I wonder if the people from Walled Lake and Lake Orion would mind if I choose an empty house on their street for my own art installation.

The claim that this is to bring about awareness of social issues is utter horseshit. I'd be curious to know how many social/community organizations these people participate in to help those less fortunate or blighted areas [[city, suburb or rural) and how much money they donate to help social causes.

If I'm a betting person my money says that this was nothing but an afternoon of playground fun for them with a bullshit statement tied to it so they can feel good about themselves.

Now let's pack up those tires and take them to the participants homes in Lake Orion and Walled Lake. We can tie some bullshit social commentary to it and tell them it is art and they should be glad we are doing it.

Fuck them and their bullshit 'cause'. People's poverty and despair is not the appropriate setting for their playground.

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Ummmm, how did you come to the conclusion that these folks are from the suburbs of Detroit? :confused:

Did you read the article and look at their video clips? With accents that are not only NOT from Detroit, but in some cases not even American [[the guy in the newspaper was likely of Dutch origin... based on his accent and name... Arne de Knegt).

They also mention a Portuguese and English artist involved.. and the head guy is a New Yorker.

It's just those 4 guys... and the local partner.... The Heidelberg Project.

The suburbs of Detroit: not involved..... ;)

I wonder if those two black women that are in this picture feel that Tyree is an interloper. Do you think that they know he is involved? Or do they just see the white faces and figure the obvious?
http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/68...8143243_09.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MSUguy

C'mon I can't the only who though of this book with those pictures

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/full...e-people-like/

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No never seen it or heard about it before... but you might want to lay off #33 so that you can post with verbs and nouns again.... :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Ummmm, how did you come to the conclusion that these folks are from the suburbs of Detroit? :confused:

Did you read the article and look at their video clips? With accents that are not only NOT from Detroit, but in some cases not even American [[the guy in the newspaper was likely of Dutch origin... based on his accent and name... Arne de Knegt).

They also mention a Portuguese and English artist involved.. and the head guy is a New Yorker.

It's just those 4 guys... and the local partner.... The Heidelberg Project.

The suburbs of Detroit: not involved..... ;)

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I came to the conclusion by looking at the associated pictures with commentary that specifically lists Walled Lake and Lake Orion as the place of residence for the people in the pictures.

You are correct about the artists being from out of town but the helpers photographed are certainly from the suburbs [[ as well as one couple from Detroit).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vox

I wonder if those two black women that are in this picture feel that Tyree is an interloper. Do you think that they know he is involved? Or do they just see the white faces and figure the obvious?
http://multimedia.detnews.com/pix/68...8143243_09.jpg

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I think that they have a fair point whether Guyton is involved in it or not. Just because a local guy supports them doesn't make their opinion about what is being done in their neighborhood any less real or valid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jt1

I came to the conclusion by looking at the associated pictures with commentary that specifically lists Walled Lake and Lake Orion as the place of residence for the people in the pictures.

You are correct about the artists being from out of town but the helpers photographed are certainly from the suburbs [[ as well as one couple from Detroit).

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I doubt the couple from Detroit don't live in that area either. Public art is one thing, but this is lipstick on a pig. The use of tires is awful. Malaria farms. Yeah thats what I want in my neighborhood to go along with the abandoned homes.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

I doubt the couple from Detroit don't live in that area either. Public art is one thing, but this is lipstick on a pig. The use of tires is awful. Malaria farms. Yeah thats what I want in my neighborhood to go along with the abandoned homes.

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You are correct. The picture indicated that the couple from Detroit lived on the west side. Whether the couple from Detroit, the people from Walled Lake and Lake Orion or the 'artists' from NY and abroad I'm sure they all think it is beautiful and significant in meaning...........just not in their neighborhood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jt1

I think that they have a fair point whether Guyton is involved in it or not. Just because a local guy supports them doesn't make their opinion about what is being done in their neighborhood any less real or valid.

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Yeah, I suppose they should have spoke up when Tyree started his shit down on Heidelberg. Or when tagging and grafitti became the communication medium of their neighborhood. Or even when there were houses and businesses around there. Yep, a little late to bitch now, I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vox

Yeah, I suppose they should have spoke up when Tyree started his shit down on Heidelberg. Or when tagging and grafitti became the communication medium of their neighborhood. Or even when there were houses and businesses around there. Yep, a little late to bitch now, I think.

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Maybe they did and the media just didn't give a rats ass until some white people from New York decided to come join the party.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jt1

I came to the conclusion by looking at the associated pictures with commentary that specifically lists Walled Lake and Lake Orion as the place of residence for the people in the pictures.

You are correct about the artists being from out of town but the helpers photographed are certainly from the suburbs [[ as well as one couple from Detroit).

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You can tell that the guy pictured with the disheveled hair isn't from here [[well he could be from Ann Arbor...) but I'm not even sure he's from the same planet.... unless he's Dutch.... lol...

American's and especially Detroiter's don't smile in such a daft way....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vox

Yeah, I suppose they should have spoke up when Tyree started his shit down on Heidelberg. Or when tagging and grafitti became the communication medium of their neighborhood. Or even when there were houses and businesses around there. Yep, a little late to bitch now, I think.

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Are you implying people didn't speak up about Tyree's shit down on Heidelberg or about tagging? Nice to see your head fits so cleanly in the sand. If you think those things have and continue to happen without any push back from people in the company then I don't think there is much hope for discussing it with you.

It sounds like you are one of the many fools out there that also think the residents and police should ignore the little crimes since there is a significant number of shootings.

I guess people lose the ability to stick up for their neighborhood if they haven't complained about or fought against every other fucked up thing in every other neighborhood in the city.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Maybe they did and the media just didn't give a rats ass until some white people from New York decided to come join the party.

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Nope, Vox is 100% certain that every citizen of Detroit supports 100% of the things that happen in the city.

I think the prayer flags are a neat idea. I love prayer flags. But this installation does look like a used tire lot, it doesn't work for me. Now if they wanted to board up the windows, paint artwork on the boards and add prayer flags so they look like communication rather than an advertisement for something, and either arrange the tires in an artful design that looks like it belongs at a home or get rid of them, I am all for it.

Wow, talk about spot-on, especially #18 Awareness. Though to be fair, these are really Stuff Liberal White People Like.

As far as the art project [[tires and rags), if the artists don't own the property then why don't the neighbors just go over there and dismantle it all? If someone put some craptastic eyesore on a vacant lot on my street it'd be gone in 24 hours.

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MSUguy
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/images/...ser-online.png


Join DateJul 2009Posts119

C'mon I can't be the only one who thought of this book with those pictures

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/full...e-people-like/

#18 Awareness

interesting fact about white people is that they firmly believe that all of the world’s problems can be solved through “awareness.” Meaning the process of making other people aware of problems, and then magically someone else like the government will fix it.
This belief allows them to feel that sweet self-satisfaction without actually having to solve anything or face any difficult challenges. Because, the only challenge of raising awareness is people not being aware. In a worst case scenario, if you fail someone doesn’t know about the problem. End of story.
What makes this even more appealing for white people is that you can raise “awareness” through expensive dinners, parties, marathons, selling t-shirts, fashion shows, concerts, eating at restaurants and bracelets. In other words, white people just have to keep doing stuff they like, EXCEPT now they can feel better about making a difference.
Raising awareness is also awesome because once you raise awareness to an acceptable, aribtrary level, you can just back off and say “Bam! did my part. Now it’s your turn. Fix it.”
So to summarize – you get all the benefits of helping [[self satisfaction, telling other people) but no need for difficult decisions or the ensuing criticism [[how do you criticize awareness?). Once again, white people find a way to score that sweet double victory.
Popular things to be aware of: The Environment, Diseases like Cancer and AIDS, Africa, Poverty, Anorexia, Homophobia, Midde School Field Hockey/Lacrosse teams, Drug Rehab, and political prisoners.





#62 Knowing what’s best for poor people

White people spend a lot of time of worrying about poor people. It takes up a pretty significant portion of their day.

They feel guilty and sad that poor people shop at Wal*Mart instead of Whole Foods, that they vote Republican instead of Democratic, that they go to Community College/get a job instead of studying art at a University.

It is a poorly guarded secret that, deep down, white people believe if given money and education that all poor people would be EXACTLY like them. In fact, the only reason that poor people make the choices they do is because they have not been given the means to make the right choices and care about the right things.

A great way to make white people feel good is to tell them about situations where poor people changed how they were doing things because they were given the ‘whiter’ option. “Back in my old town, people used to shop at Wal*Mart and then this non-profit organization came in and set up a special farmers co-op so that we could buy more local produce, and within two weeks the Wal*Mart shut down and we elected our first Democratic representative in 40 years.” White people will first ask which non-profit and are they hiring? After that, they will be filled with euphoria and will invite you to more parties to tell this story to their friends, so that they can feel great.

But it is ESSENTIAL that you reassert that poor people do not make decisions based on free will. That news could crush white people and their hope for the future.

Last edited by MSUguy; Today at 04:42 PM. Reason: I lack the ability to proofread

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by jt1

Are you implying people didn't speak up about Tyree's shit down on Heidelberg or about tagging? Nice to see your head fits so cleanly in the sand. If you think those things have and continue to happen without any push back from people in the company then I don't think there is much hope for discussing it with you.

It sounds like you are one of the many fools out there that also think the residents and police should ignore the little crimes since there is a significant number of shootings.

I guess people lose the ability to stick up for their neighborhood if they haven't complained about or fought against every other fucked up thing in every other neighborhood in the city.

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Not loudly enough I guess. And the tagging and grafitti started out by the residents of the neighborhood din't help matters either. Now all of this has been co-opted by hipsters and doofus Eurotrash. And the left over people want to complain.

I believe that you are wrong about your perception of my acceptance of crime in the neighborhood. I guess that you would have to ask the COD blight department first, then ask the DPD why they aren't foccused on crime in general, say back in 1976 to 81 or so.

And the above post by Det_ard is spot on. What the hell stops the residents from proactively taking this shit down? It's all a feeling of helplessness. Victimhood. He's right, if it were in my neighborhood, it would be gone ASAP.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vox

Not loudly enough I guess. And the tagging and grafitti started out by the residents of the neighborhood din't help matters either. Now all of this has been co-opted by hipsters and doofus Eurotrash. And the left over people want to complain.

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So now it is that they didn't complain loudly enough. Add in that some, likely a small number, of residents tagged building so no residents should have a voice to complain about people trashing their neighborhood in the name of 'art'. I guess this same argument could be made that well, if someone in your neighborhood gets raped or murdered and you don't complain loudly enough then you also deserve to get raped or murdered. Completely ignorant logic.

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I believe that you are wrong about your perception of my acceptance of crime in the neighborhood. I guess that you would have to ask the COD blight department first, then ask the DPD why they aren't foccused on crime in general, say back in 1976 to 81 or so.

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Since the people aren't getting proper services from PD or CoD then they deserve to be shit on by these artists? Maybe they just didn't complain loud enough. How loud or often does a neighborhood have to complain to still have a voice in their neighborhood. Since crime is high in some neighbohoods should we just accept it and explain to the residents that they should be victims because they clearly have not complained loud enough or often enough.

Completely idiotic argument on your part.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jt1

So now it is that they didn't complain loudly enough. Add in that some, likely a small number, of residents tagged building so no residents should have a voice to complain about people trashing their neighborhood in the name of 'art'. I guess this same argument could be made that well, if someone in your neighborhood gets raped or murdered and you don't complain loudly enough then you also deserve to get raped or murdered. Completely ignorant logic.

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Well if they actually jailed Tyree, or denounced him, maybe I would say that
they did all they could. Or stopped their kids from defacing their own
neighborhood, But, they didn't. Big difference in what would happen in my
neighborhood and theirs, too. I WILL call the police. I guess that strategy that
has been employed on the eastside works real well.

Quote:

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Since the people aren't getting proper services from PD or CoD then they
deserve to be shit on by these artists? Maybe they just didn't complain loud
enough. How loud or often does a neighborhood have to complain to still
have a voice in their neighborhood. Since crime is high in some neighbohoods
should we just accept it and explain to the residents that they should be
victims because they clearly have not complained loud enough or often
enough.

Completely idiotic argument on your part

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.

Dear idiotic jt1 [[your words, not mine) That time has passed, if you haven't noticed. Read my post. It is the practices that the own residents employed that got them in this spot. Now they complain when white d-bags come in and plant a few flags? Fucking please. That horse has left the barn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Det_ard

Wow, talk about spot-on, especially #18 Awareness. Though to be fair, these are really Stuff Liberal White People Like.

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Don't forget #34 Architecture. That too is spot on... although they probalby missed "Historic Preservation" and "Tree Hugging".

Notice what is not on the "liberal" list.... ;)

1) Fox News
2) WWF Smackdown
3) Nascar Racing
4) Freedom Fries
5)Tractor Pulls

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Well if they actually jailed Tyree, or denounced him, maybe I would sat that
they did all they could. Or stopped their kids from defacing their own
neighborhood, But, they didn't. Big difference in what would happen in my
neighborhood and theirs, too. I WILL call the police. I guess that strategy that
has been employed on the eastside works real well.

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So these people in this neighborhood are also responsible for the actions at the Heidelberg project about a mile away? What radius must people defend to still have a voice in their neighborhood? You also, make the assumption that there wasn't people speaking out and fighting against the Heidelberg project.

You also go on to make a couple of flawed assumptions [[1) that people didn't call the police when they saw vandals/taggers. What do you recommend people do when they call the police and they don't show up? Should they confront the punk kids. I'm sure in your neighborhood where people shit rainbows that it would be a scene right from a 1950s movie. You also assume that people did nothing to defend their neighborhood. Although the area is beat down it doesn't mean that people have done nothing.

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Dear idiotic jt1 [[your words, not mine)

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I stated that your argument was idiotic, not you. There is a big difference but you are showing that you don't have the sense to differentiate between the two.

Quote:

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That time has passed, of you haven't noticed. Read my post. It is the practices that the own residents employed that got them in this spot. Now they complain when white d-bags come in and plant a few flags? Fucking please. That horse has left the barn.

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So, becuase some people in the neighborhood have caused issues and the neighborhood has fallen on hard times that everyone in the neighborhood, regardless of their efforts to improve should just be quiet and deal with anything that happens.

So it appears you agree with Bobby Knight; if you're going to get raped you might as well sit back and enjoy it. It really seems that you ignore that there are still a lot of people working to improve their neighborhoods and fighting for their bests interests, regardless how far the neighborhoods have fallen.

I guess where not all so lucky to live in Leave it Beaver land like yourself. Let's go get some guns and start killing people that live in rough areas. After all, according to your argument, they deserve it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vox

Well if they actually jailed Tyree, or denounced him, maybe I would say that
they did all they could. Or stopped their kids from defacing their own
neighborhood, But, they didn't. Big difference in what would happen in my
neighborhood and theirs, too. I WILL call the police. I guess that strategy that
has been employed on the eastside works real well.
.

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The neighbors have complained publicly for years. Hell Archer had part of it demolished due to neighbor complaints about rats and other vermin.

This project has long had issues with it's neighbors.

1989: Detroit City Council awards Guyton the Spirit of Detroit Award, while protests by some neighbors opposed to the project gain traction.


1991: Responding to neighborhood complaints, Mayor Coleman Young orders three houses bulldozed.


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110801/...#ixzz1YRIIJiDf


From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110801/...#ixzz1YRIBee00

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Originally Posted by MSUguy

The neighbors have complained publicly for years. Hell Arhcer has part of demolished parts of it due to neighbor complaints about rats and other vermin

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He's backed by big money, and code enforcement is non-existent in the city. If they wanted to, they could remove his crap once and for all, and rid the neighborhood of the rats and vermin once and for all. But, he's a pet of the white establishment, so hands off.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jt1

So these people in this neighborhood are also responsible for the actions at the Heidelberg project about a mile away? What radius must people defend to still have a voice in their neighborhood? You also, make the assumption that there wasn't people speaking out and fighting against the Heidelberg project.

You also go on to make a couple of flawed assumptions [[1) that people didn't call the police when they saw vandals/taggers. What do you recommend people do when they call the police and they don't show up? Should they confront the punk kids. I'm sure in your neighborhood where people shit rainbows that it would be a scene right from a 1950s movie. You also assume that people did nothing to defend their neighborhood. Although the area is beat down it doesn't mean that people have done nothing.

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I understand that the world doesn't work as it should, most times. I also understand that the DPS sucks big time when it comes to shot like that. But I find it hard to rationalize that a culture of "no snitching" when it comes to the most violent and depraved acts, will be one to call the police on the arsonists, scrappers and taggers in the community. More likely a blind eye policy than anything else. Years upon years of disinterest gives you the East side as it is today.Nor will it change anytime soon.

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I stated that your argument was idiotic, not you. There is a big difference but
you are showing that you don't have the sense to differentiate between the two.

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Really? I don't have sense now... boy, you are sure full of attacks these days.

Quote:

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So, becuase some people in the neighborhood have caused issues and the
neighborhood has fallen on hard times that everyone in the neighborhood,
regardless of their efforts to improve should just be quiet and deal with
anything that happens.

So it appears you agree with Bobby Knight; if
you're going to get raped you might as well sit back and enjoy it. It really
seems that you ignore that there are still a lot of people working to improve
their neighborhoods and fighting for their bests interests, regardless how far
the neighborhoods have fallen.

I guess where not all so lucky to live in
Leave it Beaver land like yourself. Let's go get some guns and start killing
people that live in rough areas. After all, according to your argument, they
deserve it.

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No. I don't feel that way. I believe that they need to get fucking angry and DO something about these people, really, and NOW. Reading what people say about private property here or should I say the distinct LACK of respect for private property, gives me a sense of what needs to be done. If you were all fired up about this, instead of attacking me, you should be at City council with a petition and plan to stop this shit.

Did u guys see the adjacent shoe dump "art" on the news? No wonder these folks are pissed off.

In North Corktown, some folks decided to "improve" upon a vacant house that was blatantly visible from MLK. Needless to say, the neighbors were not amused:


Attachment 10703.Attachment 10702


The house was promply burned to the ground. Problem solved.

My advice to anyone attempting to erect "art" in people's neighborhoods: Get community buy-in. Lots of it. Cuz If you don't, all you're gonna end up with is burnt up community politics.

White people!!!!!!!!!!!! ^_^

Quote from the Detroit News article:

"Alex White Mazzarella, the co-founder of Artefacting, said his project is aimed at calling attention to Detroit's social and economic problems."

"Our efforts are to use art to engage social issues," said White Mazzarella. "For us, this is a platform for the community."

Yeah yeah. Sure thing, buckaroo.
I don't see any social issues being engaged, and I think the last sentence of that quote would be more truthful if "for the community" was omitted.
Detroit's "social and economic problems" call plenty of attention to themselves without some Band of Cheez-Whiz Faux-Art Gypsys riding in from over the horizon to pile up some tires and drape a bunch of bullshit from an abandoned house.
In any case, I do not see any intrinsic value in "calling attention" to things that are plainly obvious. I'm fairly certain that I have identified whereto the attention is truly meant to be called, and I'll be more than happy to attend to the sight of them packing up their grubby shit into their little hipsterrific vehicles and getting the fuck out of town.
You wanna "engage?" Well, good, then. Buy the goddam house, fix it up, move into it, and keep it, and the property it's on, presentably decent.
Otherwise, go buy some Spongebob coloring books and scram.
But, if you really do want to engage some ill before you leave, make sure that you stop by the area where the incinerator is and take a few nice, deep breaths. We don't want you to leave without some memories.

I'll defer to the neighborhood, for two main reasons:

1. They live there.

2. I haven't seen or read anything about people in the respective Detroit neighborhoods skeptical about the motives of the Blight Busters or the Mower Gang.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

Did u guys see the adjacent shoe dump "art" on the news? No wonder these folks are pissed off.

In North Corktown, some folks decided to "improve" upon a vacant house that was blatantly visible from MLK. Needless to say, the neighbors were not amused:


Attachment 10703.Attachment 10702


The house was promply burned to the ground. Problem solved.

My advice to anyone attempting to erect "art" in people's neighborhoods: Get community buy-in. Lots of it. Cuz If you don't, all you're gonna end up with is burnt up community politics.

---

I don't advocate arson, but that "art" is so condescending I want to puke.

I take it these artefacting guys were probably well intentioned, but this is really poor execution... very sad "art." And their explanation is total bullshit:

http://www.artefacting.com/blog/2011...cting-detroit/

an excerpt: "As strong words about the power of community and togetherness pour out, we start to brainstorm ideas of action that could help catalyze and manifest the collective voice and direction we so heard so clearly. Yet it is not our place, not our culture and not our history. And so we continue to listen, taking notes, processing and moving.
Our list of volunteers is growing as we narrow down what we will catalyze, and our thinking evolves as we submerge deeper into the story that is today’s Detroit."

Sounds like they had the idea of "listening to the community" and "engaging," but their writing is so vague and meaningless it's clear they don't know what the hell they're doing.

It's unfortunate people like this give all white people a bad name.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by urbanhat

It's unfortunate people like this give all white people a bad name.

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I agree. Next time I feel prejudice creeping in my head I will think of these awful people to remind myself that not all people of the same shade are somehow a cohesive unit. I am not like these people.

Anyway burning that schitt down seems fine to me.

I don't think they give all white people a bad name and I don't think they're really all that awful.
I just think they are so full of shit that they don't even have any sense of how full of shit they are.
Their Mission Statement reads like it was written by some 17-year-old girls who, having become bored with cheerleading, decided it would be neat to become, like, world citizens and, y'know, social activists 'n' stuff.
I think it's fair to assume that they have no clue, at all, as to how offensive their approach is.
A case of a true disconnect between the two sides: "We come, bearing the gift of our art project, to call attention to your bitter plight and social demise" doesn't sit well with "We live here."

What did we ever do to Tibet to deserve this?

Here are photos of the 'Artefacted' house with a nice long rant about "Dr. Guyton" as he insists upon being called after receiving an imaginary degree from CCS....a school which offers no such degree title. Dude didnt even go to school !!

The 'Artefacting' people from NYC are working under his guidance, and this house was one of "Dr." Guytons playthings long before 'Artefacting' showed up. Behind the house is where Dr. Tyree dumped all the shoes that he used for the installation in Brush Park [[where he has his studio).

http://www.detroitfunk.com/?p=5581

said White Mazzarella. "For us, this is a platform for the community."

What the heck is this guy thinking? In what way would this be a platform for the community? I have to agree with jt1. These "artists" are being disingenuous.

Mauser, I know you are into arty-type stuff, so I'm glad to see that you note the clear difference between art and a pack of self-important bullshitters descending on any area to "do their thing."
If Coltrane would have tried to record "My Favorite Things" on the street-corner outside the studio where he actually recorded it, someone woiuld have either called the cops or shot at his ass.
That statement isn't directly relevant to the discussion at hand, but just a thought. Folks can't just do whatever the fuck they want out in public, or private, places and umbrella it as "street art."
And the entire enterprise would be seen differently if it didn't look like a bunch of childish horseshit, but that's exactly what it looks like.

My Favorite Things, is.

Understand this: In contemporary art controversy trumps quality.

The more loudly opponents whine about it, the more attention the artists get, the more 'misunderstood' they are, the more their opposition grows and the more attention they get. And an upward spiral of attention results.

The best thing that could happen for them is for someone to attack the installation, police to ticket it, or better yet arrest them. Such an event could break it out of the local market and take it viral, nationally or higher. Then they become the persecuted artists who were just trying to use peace flags to sympathetically "call attention to Detroit's social and economic problems" [As if there anyone who isn't living under a rock who is unaware of that].

So carry on beating on them until you fuel enough controversy to fund their next grant.

Thanks, Gnome.
If "it" gets any better than that, I don't need to know about "it."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Understand this: In contemporary art controversy trumps quality.

The more loudly opponents whine about it, the more attention the artists get, the more 'misunderstood' they are, the more their opposition grows and the more attention they get. And an upward spiral of attention results.

The best thing that could happen for them is for someone to attack the installation, police to ticket it, or better yet arrest them. Such an event could break it out of the local market and take it viral, nationally or higher. Then they become the persecuted artists who were just trying to use peace flags to sympathetically "call attention to Detroit's social and economic problems" [As if there anyone who isn't living under a rock who is unaware of that].

So carry on beating on them until you fuel enough controversy to fund their next grant.

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Good point, L.

Here on DY, it's like we're having a little get-together where we hash things out, compare thoughts & ideas, and-- like over-aggressive cyber-monkeys-- throw shit at each other.
But, for the very reason you cited, I would hate to see any more publicly-visible action taken in opposition to, or protest of, this obnoxious little display of puerile self-indulgence.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lowell

So carry on beating on them until you fuel enough controversy to fund their next grant.

---

So what do you suggest then, in regards to remediating this situation, if the actions you stated above will only aid them in their quest for attention? It's like you're saying "the art is there, it's too late, and there it will stay just so we don't give them what they really want." I think the people who live in that neighborhood would have a serious problem with this.

The "art" is eventually going to disappear from that property, somehow. Mark my words.

Or it could be improved. One thing I thought of, if those tires could be made into a cool stacked fence along the side property line. Maybe hang the prayer flags a bit less aggressively. I like them flying along a line over the front entryway. It would take the neighbors a little time and energy, and maybe they could have a little picnic too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

So what do you suggest then, in regards to remediating this situation, if the actions you stated above will only aid them in their quest for attention? It's like you're saying "the art is there, it's too late, and there it will stay just so we don't give them what they really want." I think the people who live in that neighborhood would have a serious problem with this.

The "art" is eventually going to disappear from that property, somehow. Mark my words.

---

I don't wish to speak for Lowell, but I didn't infer from his comments that he is suggesting that folks in the neighborhood, or anywhere else, should just lay down and put up with things to which they object. I think what he is saying is that the community-at-large should think carefully about just how much attention they draw to the activities of a group of folks whose primary goal may be to draw attention to themselves.
I don't think this DY thread is making enough of a public splash to serve that end, but any serious media coverage of the tempest-in-a-teapot furor would, indeed, play directly into the hands of "Arne" & his pals.

^^ ^^

Lowell seems like he has an objective opinion. I'm asking if he has any ideas on how he thinks the physical presence of the art should be dealt with.

I already read all of your opinions Ravine :)

"...cheeze wizz faux art gypsies..." LMFAO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gazhekwe

Or it could be improved. One thing I thought of, if those tires could be made into a cool stacked fence along the side property line. .

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These guys use tires to build houses:

http://youtu.be/h7jAkwhTq4c

Am I actually reading here that some folks think the neighbors should rise up and defend their homeland from these interlopers? To put down the afront of Tibetian peace flags in the name of ... what exactly? Respect? Or is it disrespect?

Lowell says, "pay no attention" and they'll go away. Go where? Farmingham Pointe perchance?

Like these neighbors would even know what to do considering they have such poor eyesight when the house next door is scrapped - or such poor memory - the sad souls can barely remember the 1st and 15th.

Maybe they could hold a canglelight vigil. Detroit is great at candlelight considering the streetlights don't work.