Clawson Sucks

Pardon my pointless rant...I know there are a plethora of reasons why Clawson generally sucks, but....

I received a parking ticket very early Saturday morning for parking on a residential street in Clawson between the hours of 2 AM - 6 AM. I looked in the morning and there was not one sign on the whole street that indicated that you could not park there during that time frame.

I called the city today and they said they post that ordinance only at "major intersections" in the city and do not on the residential streets you'd actually get the ticket due to "home ownership issues".

It's only for $20 [[as long as I pay within week it doesn't go to $50), but I'm just annoyed with it. As a visitor to the city I had no warning whatsoever that my parking was illegal [[unless, of course, I randomly read the ordinance signs at a "major intersection" in town).

We had the thread earlier about having to pay police expenses in cities even when you are at no fault. This falls in that line - cities just screwing over civilians so they can pay their own salaries. While I respect much of what they do, I just find it absurd some of the ways that police/parking enforcement knowingly screw people over.

I'm paying my ticket, but not too happy about it and will not spend a damn dime in that city in my own personal protest! :)

[[This thread is basically pointless, but somehow in my head me speaking my mind on a public forum helps justify writing that 20 buck check :D.)

I spent the first 23 years of my life in Clawson.

The ordinance is clearly posted on all main roads as you enter the city of Clawson. Your hosts should have warned you about it too. We also did so for our guests so they wouldn't get a ticket.

I wish the city I live in, Warren, had this ordinance. It forces people to only have working vehicles parked on the street and in the most visible parts of their driveway.

Once on my street [[in Warren) there was a car parked there for 6 months, it had a flat tire and never moved an inch. Because Warren didn't have a parking ordinance it was automatically taken care of. I called the police and they promptly give it a violation for be a non-functioning vehicle parked in the street.

As to why it's not signed, it's enforced city wide. They would have to put massive amounts of signs all over the place and the city would lose its charm.

I like the ordinance; it keeps the streets clear.

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Originally Posted by 48091

As to why it's not signed, it's enforced city wide. They would have to put massive amounts of signs all over the place and the city would lose its charm.

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They have the same general ordinance in East Lansing [[starts at midnight), but they at least put signs on the residential streets indicating the ordinances. It's not a "massive" amount of signs at all nor does it look bad.

You mean you can't even park your car in front of your own house overnight??? What if you had no room on your driveway and you had overnight guests? I would bet that you will get a ticket if block the sidewalk. Does Clawson provide any spare lots to avoid this type of scenario?

same ordinance in Grosse pointe woods, but its from 3am to 5am

you can get a permit to park you car in the street for a limited time frame and/or you can call the police station and give them your parking location and plate # and they won't ticket you

i've lived in GPW almost my entire life and probably get the ticket 2-3 time a year, sucks to pass out on your couch and forget your car is in the street........

I would guess that every suburb in Metro Detroit has a similar ordinance.

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Originally Posted by eastland

I would guess that every suburb in Metro Detroit has a similar ordinance.

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I know for a fact Bloomfield Township does not. The ordinance is fine, but the horrible job of notifying citizens is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by eastland

I would guess that every suburb in Metro Detroit has a similar ordinance.

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Nope, not in Royal Oak. At least no streets in my neighborhood.

Northville does. Novi doesn't. I never understood these ordinances. If the city was running street sweepers every night, it might make sense. But if not, what's the purpose?

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Originally Posted by Goose

same ordinance in Grosse pointe woods, but its from 3am to 5am

you can get a permit to park you car in the street for a limited time frame and/or you can call the police station and give them your parking location and plate # and they won't ticket you

i've lived in GPW almost my entire life and probably get the ticket 2-3 time a year, sucks to pass out on your couch and forget your car is in the street........

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same for harper woods...at least when i was growing up there for 25+ years

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Originally Posted by eastland

I would guess that every suburb in Metro Detroit has a similar ordinance.

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Detroit's largest suburb, Warren, does not.

As others have said, you can get a variance for special occasions. I've had to get them in the past.

Clawson generally has larger lots on residential streets, but not in all cases. These lots typically have long driveways. My parents could easily fit 5 cars in the driveway and one more in the approach.

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Originally Posted by stinkytofu

They have the same general ordinance in East Lansing [[starts at midnight), but they at least put signs on the residential streets indicating the ordinances. It's not a "massive" amount of signs at all nor does it look bad.

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Like I said, it's very clearly posted on all main roads entering the city. I would be more mad at my friend for not looking after my interests.

Clawson is a nice place to live because of its ordinances. I hope to move back some day when I can afford to get out of my house.

Hint: Go to the cop shop and explain to them you're a visitor [[show them your license) and that you didn't know about the ordinances. Explain your remorseful and won't do it again. Ask if leniency can be shown.

[[hint may not work if you're black)

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Originally Posted by 48091

Clawson is a nice place to live because of its ordinances. I hope to move back some day when I can afford to get out of my house.

Hint: Go to the cop shop and explain to them you're a visitor [[show them your license) and that you didn't know about the ordinances. Explain your remorseful and won't do it again. Ask if leniency can be shown.

[[hint may not work if you're black)

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Wow.

So what is it again that makes Clawson such a nice place that you are looking forward to moving back? The fact that city officials choose to let "those people" who visit understand that they are not equally welcome?
And to think people wonder why we have such poor race relations and this region is so racially segregated.

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Originally Posted by stinkytofu

Pardon my pointless rant...I know there are a plethora of reasons why Clawson generally sucks, but....

I received a parking ticket very early Saturday morning for parking on a residential street in Clawson between the hours of 2 AM - 6 AM. I looked in the morning and there was not one sign on the whole street that indicated that you could not park there during that time frame.

I called the city today and they said they post that ordinance only at "major intersections" in the city and do not on the residential streets you'd actually get the ticket due to "home ownership issues".

It's only for $20 [[as long as I pay within week it doesn't go to $50), but I'm just annoyed with it. As a visitor to the city I had no warning whatsoever that my parking was illegal [[unless, of course, I randomly read the ordinance signs at a "major intersection" in town).

We had the thread earlier about having to pay police expenses in cities even when you are at no fault. This falls in that line - cities just screwing over civilians so they can pay their own salaries. While I respect much of what they do, I just find it absurd some of the ways that police/parking enforcement knowingly screw people over.

I'm paying my ticket, but not too happy about it and will not spend a damn dime in that city in my own personal protest! :)

[[This thread is basically pointless, but somehow in my head me speaking my mind on a public forum helps justify writing that 20 buck check :D.)

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I never like these kind of regulations, especially when you visit someone who has a garage, and they completely forget or are unaware to tell you not to street park. I was fortunate in one community to have a warning.

But the signs ARE there. They are required to post them upon entering city limits. But I don't believe there's any regulation governing what the sign looks like. So many drivers may not notice.

I don't know about Michigan, but most major cities expect you to assume the speed limit....30 mph unless posted otherwise. Very common in big cities where putting up speed limit signs is impractical. Regardless, drivers are required to know the speed limit before entering that municipality, or at least taken note of the sign at the boundary.

St. Clair Shores has a similar ordinance, but they're more lax about it.

I have to agree with those that said a warning about parking on the street by the homeowner should have been given. They're the ones you should be mad at stinkytofu...

Another gripe?

Now that most cities have gone to contracted trash removal...apparently they subsidize it with city-wide no-parking on trash day.

I was at a client's down in Southgate one morning...unloaded in his driveway, but he had other workers coming by so he told me to park around the corner...since it was trash day and you couldn't park in front of his house.

I did...only to come out later to find a ticket. They had s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d the statute to include those streets, too, and he missed the memo.


It is unpaid, and will remain so. They've spent a small fortune sending reminders to me, some night we'll use 'em all to light the Ball o' Fire on the back porch. It should make quite the fireball...and catharsis.

Cheers, I feel your pain, LOL!

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Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Wow.

So what is it again that makes Clawson such a nice place that you are looking forward to moving back? The fact that city officials choose to let "those people" who visit understand that they are not equally welcome?
And to think people wonder why we have such poor race relations and this region is so racially segregated.

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You've got it. [[I'm sure that we'll now hear about the difficult time white people get at the CAYMC, though... as if those folks don't give everyone a hard time...)

We have that same law in St. Clair Shores and as someone else posted they are lax until it needs to be enforced and you can get a permit to park on the street.
At first I thought this was a very stupid law then a few doors down we got the the party house from hell on my street the party's went on all night during the week stoners coming and going waking everyone up in the middle of the work nights cars parked all over the street. The Neighbors complained and the cops at 2am sharp would start ticketing the all the cars parked on the street it worked wonders just before 2 the party and street cleared out so now I am a firm believer in the law. They also enforce it when cars thefts or crime go up in an area people are less likely to have there car stolen in the backyard or in the garage and if crime goes up it is easier to see a car that doesnt belong in the area in the middle of the night

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Originally Posted by Novine

Northville does. Novi doesn't. I never understood these ordinances. If the city was running street sweepers every night, it might make sense. But if not, what's the purpose?

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Besides keeping junk cars off the street, the other purpose is so the cops can drive down the street and conveniently see if there is any "riff raff" in the area.These ordinances stink if you live on a corner with no driveway. You have to obtain permits if you don't want to be ticketed. It's a money grab.

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Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Wow.

So what is it again that makes Clawson such a nice place that you are looking forward to moving back? The fact that city officials choose to let "those people" who visit understand that they are not equally welcome?
And to think people wonder why we have such poor race relations and this region is so racially segregated.

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It's changed a lot since I was born, but unfortunately it's still that way. I've seen a few people cited for DWB's.

It's these old folks, they're still so racist, and Clawson is filled with them. However, the school district is starting to get much more diverse [[most via kids from other cities) and the young kids aren't racist at all.

It is a nice city, and this region, not just Clawson, is still dealing with racist old people.

As already mentioned it's the homeowners fault for not letting you know about it.
If I was the homeowner I'd pay your fine since I was the one who F'd up.

Wait, hold on a minute.
How is Clawson a racist city? And how is the ordinance racist?

1. I am a young black man, I frequent Clawson and am never harassed or feel that I am being watched by the police or resisdents. On the contrary, the residents are always the 'hello' type. I would rent a house in Clawson in a heartbeat [[it is too sleepy for me to live there long term).

2. The ordinance may be in part motivated by aesthetics and the narrowness of the streets. Clawson citizens not parking on the street at night will by habit park in the driveway during the day. And guess what? It looks a lot better. The street looks better without cars in it. Car lined streets are like driving with your arm out the window.

3. Don't impute racism upon the Clawson Police unless you have a good reason. I would rather drive through Clawson everyday for the rest of my life than deal with the Eastpointe Police.

4. Why is there so much race baiting on this website lately? I am almost to the point of leaving the website.

now i've read it all... how you can turn getting a ticket for parking you car on the street overnight into racism is beyond me... but the fact that you believe this shows the ignorance that will likely never be overcome....

you caught us white folk... whitey made these parking laws to keep the blacks out of our community.... only the black owned cars get ticketed, because they research the ownership of every car before they write the ticket... there, i exposed it.... this racist law must be overturned.....

i actually park mutiple cars everynight on the street and never get a ticket....

http://www.hulu.com/watch/10356/satu...-white-like-me

Fine, fine, majohnson & Goose. Nothing that is ever done is motivated by race in SE Michigan. It's just crazy black people making everything up. We have apparently been making things up for decades.

Game's up. You got us. Let us all proceed with our perfectly harmonious, colorblind region and world.

I hereby promise to stop my vicious hate against Clawson, and hope others will take the same stand.

english, not claiming that racism doesn't exist

but this isn't a case of "parking while black"... like i said in my previous post, im 95% white [[5% African American? [[ancestry from South Africa - it is Africa, and I am American, but thats another debate))..... I get these tickets all the time, parked right in front of my white house........

maybe they are ticketing me based on my African [[south) heritage.......

Not really sure how my original complaint about lack of signs in a city turned into this racial issue, but it certainly has propelled the discussion...

...or it could simply be a tax on those who refuse to climb the learning curve...heh...

Hey. I am conceding the point. Look, I said it's our fault, quite nicely. End of discussion, nothing to see here, etc. Enjoy the perfect day outside.

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Originally Posted by ddaydetroit

We have that same law in St. Clair Shores and as someone else posted they are lax until it needs to be enforced and you can get a permit to park on the street.
At first I thought this was a very stupid law then a few doors down we got the the party house from hell on my street the party's went on all night during the week stoners coming and going waking everyone up in the middle of the work nights cars parked all over the street. The Neighbors complained and the cops at 2am sharp would start ticketing the all the cars parked on the street it worked wonders just before 2 the party and street cleared out so now I am a firm believer in the law. They also enforce it when cars thefts or crime go up in an area people are less likely to have there car stolen in the backyard or in the garage and if crime goes up it is easier to see a car that doesnt belong in the area in the middle of the night

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Good points ddaydetroit.... and the other ordinance that St. Clair Shores has is an ENFORCED sound ordinance. Drive around at night [[or day) with your audio bass on in full force.... and SCS police will ticket you! A SCS officer says that they write about 100 tickets a month... and the streets are mostly quiet at night.

The Detroit city council added an audio ordinance a few years back.... but enforcement seems virtually non-existent.

The race part was my fault. I indicated that I felt he might be able to talk his way out of the ticket at the cop shop, if he wasn't black.

The original poster never suggested his ticket had to do with race, but Kevgoblue stated that he was disappointed over my assertion that racism still exists [[but is fading) from Clawson.



[[Edit: Corrected that Kevgoblue was disappointed with my assertion)

Yet all these suburbs like Novi and others that don't have these pointless ordinances manage to avoid turning into the ghetto even though people are allowed to park on a public street.

"The street looks better without cars in it. Car lined streets are like driving with your arm out the window."

I'm sure that everyone who drives through between 2 am and 6 am appreciates the view of the car-free streets.

English,

I believe racism exists and exerts a substantial force in some situations.
However, I don't thinks Clawson is a racist city and I don't think banning late night street parking is a racially motivated ordinance.

I think Clawson uses the ordinance to keep up the aesthetic and keep down car accidents on narrow streets.
I also think several municipalities use similar ordinances to keep the party/bar scene out of neighborhoods and inside the party venues. Thereby you prevent late night traffic of downtown customers using the neighborhoods as free parking.
Rochestor has banned overnight parking in some of their downtown parking lots and the neighborhoods close to downtown Rochestor ban overnight parking.

Here is an example,
I live in Royal Oak.
At 1:45 to 2:15 on Friday and Saturday night I listen to loud talking [[not screaming, but loud talking travels in the quiet morning air) neighbors return from the club scene. I only have to deal with the people who live in the neighborhood because I don't leave near dtown RO. My point is, imagine the disturbance if had to deal with twice as many people making noise while they return to my neighborhood to retrieve their cars.

Please recall that Clawson has been trying to create a regional draw downtown. Black Lotus brewpub is frequently full to capacity on weeknights. The ban on street parking may counter anti-development pushback from citizens living near downtown Clawson.

Also, a late night ban on street parking effectively bans large late night house parties. Large parties frequently produce a lot of noise, which would be an issue during the hours of the street parking ban because many people are trying to sleep.

Now, on the otherhand, selective enforcement and selective waiving of the street parking rule would be a problem.

By the way, I hate street parking.
Kids blindly following basketballs etc. are less likely to be hit by cars if there are no parked cars on the street.
I also think car lined streets block the beauty of the homes and landscaping.

Hey Gannon, your inbox is full. I have been trying to contact you.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"The street looks better without cars in it. Car lined streets are like driving with your arm out the window."

I'm sure that everyone who drives through between 2 am and 6 am appreciates the view of the car-free streets.

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You fail to acknowledge that the ordinance results in less cars on the street even during the day. I have several neighbors that park their cars on the street for days without moving them.

These are the same neighbors that get upset when people back into their cars and dent them.

In addition to safer, nice looking streets, it also create less issues for police to deal with [[accidents with parked cars).

Even though I'm allowed to park my car on the street in Warren I NEVER do so, because the people that live around me SUCK at backing their cars out of their driveways.

It did make for fun times when I lived in Clawson and my family had four cars. Every night we would re-order our cars in the order that people would be leaving in the morning.

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Originally Posted by 48091

The race part was my fault. I indicated that I felt he might be able to talk his way out of the ticket at the cop shop, if he wasn't black.

The original poster never suggested his ticket had to do with race, but he stated that he was disappointed over my assertion that racism still exists [[but is fading) from Clawson.

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When the heck did I state that?

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Originally Posted by majohnson

Now, on the otherhand, selective enforcement and selective waiving of the street parking rule would be a problem.

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Not that you were asserting it, but I can assure you that the parking ordinance in Clawson is NOT selectively enforced.

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Originally Posted by English

Fine, fine, majohnson & Goose. Nothing that is ever done is motivated by race in SE Michigan. It's just crazy black people making everything up. We have apparently been making things up for decades.

Game's up. You got us. Let us all proceed with our perfectly harmonious, colorblind region and world.

I hereby promise to stop my vicious hate against Clawson, and hope others will take the same stand.

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Apparently neither of them could read where the former Clawson resident explicitly stated "hint may not work if you're black".

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Originally Posted by stinkytofu

When the heck did I state that?

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You didn't, I was mistaken. I will correct my statement. It was actually Kevgoblue:

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Originally Posted by Kevgoblue

Wow.

So what is it again that makes Clawson such a nice place that you are looking forward to moving back? The fact that city officials choose to let "those people" who visit understand that they are not equally welcome?
And to think people wonder why we have such poor race relations and this region is so racially segregated.

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I did not realize a car, or how or where it is parked, could exude racial vibes discernible to public safety professionals or anyone else, for that matter. OK, whatever.

My son lived in a town where you parked on the north side on M-W-F and the south side on T-T-S. The switch occurred each midnight. Son worked restaurant hours and sometimes could not move his vehicle from one side of the street to the other due to either being away from his house or being asleep in his bed at midnight. His town surely did not care about his work hours: this was a guaranteed revenue stream and they made sure to ticket his car [[and all his neighbors' cars) every single time it/they did not get moved before 12:15 a.m. or so.

Son thought having to continually pay parking tickets for such a dumb reason was ludicrous and began to ignore them. It was no big deal in his opinion - until he tried to renew his driver's license and learned it had been suspended due to $2,000 of outstanding parking fines.

Some laws are just stupid. Sometimes one's kids are, too.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Apparently neither of them could read where the former Clawson resident explicitly stated "hint may not work if you're black".

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Yes, that was me that said that. The only person that has hinted at racism is a WHITE FORMER Clawson resident, me.

And I indicated that I felt racism is Clawson is fading away as the older generation dies off or moves. I feel that young people in Clawson are much more likely to judge people for who they are.

No one has suggested that the ordinance is racist.


For heaven's sake I will be more careful from now on, LOL.

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Originally Posted by Corn.Bot

I did not realize a car, or how or where it is parked, could exude racial vibes discernible to public safety professionals or anyone else, for that matter. OK, whatever.

My son lived in a town where you parked on the north side on M-W-F and the south side on T-T-S. The switch occurred each midnight. Son worked restaurant hours and sometimes could not move his vehicle from one side of the street to the other due to either being away from his house or being asleep in his bed at midnight. His town surely did not care about his work hours: this was a guaranteed revenue stream and they made sure to ticket his car [[and all his neighbors' cars) every single time it/they did not get moved before 12:15 a.m. or so.

Son thought having to continually pay parking tickets for such a dumb reason was ludicrous and began to ignore them. It was no big deal in his opinion - until he tried to renew his driver's license and learned it had been suspended due to $2,000 of outstanding parking fines.

Some laws are just stupid. Sometimes one's kids are, too.

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Wow... that does suck....

In Ann Arbor they have an ordinance that when there are heavy snow days, you can park at any metered street spot without paying the meter. Problem is... they don't tell you when the grace period is up... $$$

I have two outstanding parking tickets from St. Clair Shores for the same offense....from 1987 ! Haven't paid them, won't pay them, and 24 years later I think the law is just as ignorant. Warrants are outstanding, but parking tickets are only registered within the city they occurred. Needless to say, I do go 38 mph down Harper when heading to my weekly visit to Salvaggio's. I'm a salty cracker too. Police tend to be equal opportunity ticket writers when it comes to revenue. Not sure of their opinion of stinky tofu though.

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Originally Posted by 48091

Yes, that was me that said that. The only person that has hinted at racism is a WHITE FORMER Clawson resident, me.

And I indicated that I felt racism is Clawson is fading away as the older generation dies off or moves. I feel that young people in Clawson are much less likely to judge people for who they are.

No one has suggested that the ordinance is racist.


For heaven's sake I will be more careful from now on, LOL.

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Of course the ordinance itself is not racist. But it's certainly not beyond any stretch of the imagination to see the ordinance being selectively enforced in a racist manner. Clawson isn't a place that I spend much time, so I don't know one way or the other. Yet all of this incredulous from others that race might somehow factor into how some suburban communities enforce these ordinances is either naive or very disingenuous.

Over the past two years I have heard several people talk down about Clawson.
It is a nice clean place, period.

I can't tell you about Clawson's race relations from 20 years ago. I can say that I generally feel welcome there.

My street parked car was hit twice within the past four years.
The first time at my parents, there was no room in the driveway.
The second time at my apartment, I was in the house for 5 minutes.

My father once almost hit a kid who darted out from between two cars chasing a basketball.
That always stuck with me. I also recall the multiple times I noticed kids playing in the yard, I slowed, and they came out from behind parked cars chasing balls.
It is scary.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Of course the ordinance itself is not racist. But it's certainly not beyond any stretch of the imagination to see the ordinance being selectively enforced in a racist manner.

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really? cause the police force knows which are black owned cars and which are white owned cars? please tell me the difference...... is the car with the 24 inch spinners a white owned car? is the mini-van with the cartoon stickers of the family in the back window a black owned car? do they look in the window and see popeyes chicken bag and base their decision on that?

why does anyone care what local municipalities have as night time parking laws... why as an outside resident do you need to park in front of my house overnight? i don't want your car in front of my house, go park it in your yard...... if you were visiting friends overnight then as a guest you probably should have been informed.....

Hamtramck does not have this ordinance. If it did, we would all have to park our cars in our living rooms.

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Originally Posted by majohnson

My father once almost hit a kid who darted out from between two cars chasing a basketball.
That always stuck with me. I also recall the multiple times I noticed kids playing in the yard, I slowed, and they came out from behind parked cars chasing balls.
It is scary.

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In Clawson right in front of my house my friend was struck by a car. It was his fault as he darted out into the street, but cars masked the view of his bike. The ordinance was enough in this case, as the cars were parked there legally, but it does prevent quite a few cars from lingering forever in the street.

One time I thought I saw a child playing by the side of the road in Litchfield, Michigan and so I drove more down the center of the road [[which had no lines, it's just a small town) and I got pulled over under suspicion of drunk driving. I was cooperative and the officer never even made me get out of the car.

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Originally Posted by Goose

really? cause the police force knows which are black owned cars and which are white owned cars? please tell me the difference...... is the car with the 24 inch spinners a white owned car? is the mini-van with the cartoon stickers of the family in the back window a black owned car? do they look in the window and see popeyes chicken bag and base their decision on that?

why does anyone care what local municipalities have as night time parking laws... why as an outside resident do you need to park in front of my house overnight? i don't want your car in front of my house, go park it in your yard...... if you were visiting friends overnight then as a guest you probably should have been informed.....

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Stop making an ass out of yourself and go read his comment. He said that you might get the citation excused if you go and explain your ignorance of that particular ordinance, unless you are black. Dunno what you call it, but I call that selective enforcement.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Stop making an ass out of yourself and go read his comment. He said that you might get the citation excused if you go and explain your ignorance of that particular ordinance, unless you are black. Dunno what you call it, but I call that selective enforcement.

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I call it an off the cuff comment by someone who has no idea whether it's true or not. It doesn't prove anything one way or another because one anonymous poster claims it to be so. I'm a white female and I got a ticket parked in front of my daughter's house during a snow storm. So go figure.
Parked in front of her house, in Clawson, that is.

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Originally Posted by jcole

I call it an off the cuff comment by someone who has no idea whether it's true or not. It doesn't prove anything one way or another because one anonymous poster claims it to be so. I'm a white female and I got a ticket parked in front of my daughter's house during a snow storm. So go figure.
Parked in front of her house, in Clawson, that is.

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Well, yeah. Of course we don't know for sure whether this is widespread practice, anecdotal experience, or completely fabricated. But in the context that 48091's account is indicative of the practices in Clawson, then yes it is selective enforcement. If Goose wants to dispute that Clawson does selectively enforce ordinances according to the offender's race, then s/he should probably say something along the lines of "I have lived in Clawson X amount of years and have never heard of such a thing".

That's a legitimate anecdotal counter argument to a claim based on anecdotal experience. But to dismiss the claim through sarcastic comments, especially when there have been so many documented accounts of racial discrimination in Detroit's suburbs, doesn't do much to convince the rest of us that 48091's comments [[for ref: "hint may not work if you're black") were that much off base.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Well, yeah. Of course we don't know for sure whether this is widespread practice, anecdotal experience, or completely fabricated. But in the context that 48091's account is indicative of the practices in Clawson, then yes it is selective enforcement. If Goose wants to dispute that Clawson does selectively enforce ordinances according to the offender's race, then s/he should probably say something along the lines of "I have lived in Clawson X amount of years and have never heard of such a thing".

That's a legitimate anecdotal counter argument to a claim based on anecdotal experience. But to dismiss the claim through sarcastic comments, especially when there have been so many documented accounts of racial discrimination in Detroit's suburbs, doesn't do much to convince the rest of us that 48091's comments [[for ref: "hint may not work if you're black") were that much off base.

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Oh, and I did go to the Clawson Police Department and tell them that it wasn't posted and I got the same explanation of the signs being posted at major intersections, etc, and they did NOT relieve the ticket or give me a warning. I had to pay the ticket. I paid my 10 bucks [[this was about 7 yrs ago) and went on my way. So I guess I could have added [[Hint: this may not work if you are a white female in your 40's). Then would this post have started such a shit storm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by English

Hey. I am conceding the point. Look, I said it's our fault, quite nicely. End of discussion, nothing to see here, etc. Enjoy the perfect day outside.

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OK, but you forgot to mention

1) that you have a PhD
2) you're done with this thread.

You must have been in a hurry to enjoy the perfect day.

why don't you go to the city of clawson, and pull all the citations for parking issued in the past 5 years, because once the citation is issued there is a record, then research which citations were selectively dismissed without a fine, according to your assertions these will be all white people, not a single black person in the lot..... although if one or two black guys got their citations dismissed it would probably just be a "mistake", due to your percieved, true or otherwise.... instititionalized racist policy found in clawson.....

its not racist to be given a legitimate ticket, ask for the fine to be dismissed, and not have it go your way.... you are guilty of the infraction regardless.......

why does racist finger pointing start before there is any evidence.... ahhhh... because someone claimed it may be possible... therefore let the card be played.....

want to avoid selective dismissal of fines and the rampant racism found in clawson... don't park in the street at night.... cops are pulling black guys out of their cars and giving them parking tickets....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jcole

Oh, and I did go to the Clawson Police Department and tell them that it wasn't posted and I got the same explanation of the signs being posted at major intersections, etc, and they did NOT relieve the ticket or give me a warning. I had to pay the ticket. I paid my 10 bucks [[this was about 7 yrs ago) and went on my way. So I guess I could have added [[Hint: this may not work if you are a white female in your 40's). Then would this post have started such a shit storm?

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No, you were too late to the thread.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

No, you were too late to the thread.

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It wouldn't have anyway.

Berkley has this law as well. The reasoning they used in addition to the already mentioned items is that it reduced crime.

I agree with the fellow who cited that the hosts should have made the person aware of situation. When we lived in Berkley we made sure everyone that visited knew about this; and everyone I knew made sure their visitors knew about this as well. However, perhaps the ticketed person could claim that they entered the City via Crooks via the Royal Oak border [[where there are no signs posted) and took side streets to their destination.

Personally, I would not have paid the ticket. I would have taken the court date and used the opportunity to gather visual information regarding the various ways one could enter the City one commonly used roads without seeing a sign. For a City to say "well, it's signed at major locations" is a cop-out [[no pun) and if your argument is presented intelligently and tersely, you may beat the ticket.