http://abcnews.go.com/US/vegetable-g...ry?id=14047214
It's crazy how much coverage this woman is getting. If only we could see more well maintained front yards like this!!
http://abcnews.go.com/US/vegetable-g...ry?id=14047214
It's crazy how much coverage this woman is getting. If only we could see more well maintained front yards like this!!
If she gets jail time... maybe she can be on the chain gang to work the Lafayette site.... :p
I think I should have a swing set, swimming pool, brick bbq pit, and a pit bull fight training camp in my front yard. Nobody else in my neighborhood has these things in their front yard, but I'm special. Instead of trying to learn what is allowable or attempting to change the rules before I spend any time or effort, I'll just do what I want and scream foul in the off chance that somebody calls me out.
Make your reservations for Mike's BBQ Pit Bull Funland today!
Is ignorance of a municipal code a reasonable defense?
Good for her. I hope she fights this stupid ordinance and wins. Dumb laws don't get changed until somebody fights for their modification.
According to the article the municipal code in her city is vague and her lawyer believes vegetable gardens are expressly exempted from the ban of undesirable things to have in a front yard.Quote:
Originally Posted by hamtown mike
It sounds more like a punk local official running amuck to me.
Looks terrible, has a hickish look about it.
I don't think I've ever seen vegtables growing in a front yard before. There's a reason people don't grow vegtables in their front yard, that being that it doesn't look good.
The question of whether such gardens are actually banned, and the question of whether they should be banned are separate. I don't know whether they are illegal in her town, but I don't think that they should be. To me, it is like HOAs that don't allow clotheslines; such restrictions are contrary to the public good and should not be allowed. Obviously a lot of people think differently.
Beauty is usually in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I'd rather have healthy soil and fresh vegetables instead of a chemical-soaked, pesticide ridden batch of turf. But, yeah, it doesn't look like as appealing as a lush front lawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjk
Except when it does: http://www.google.com/products/catal...ed=0CDwQ8wIwAQ
The lady payes her taxes, let her put a garden up. Its Oak Park , better than having a couch on the front lawn.
I don't think it should be illegal just like I don't think it should be illegal for people to leave their Christmas lights up all year or allow their kids to leave their bikes strewn all over their lawn. I just wish people wouldn't do it.
IMO that's a pretty bland looking raised bed veg garden. Someone needs to tell her that she can jam a lot more plants in a raised bed. There are ways of making something like that appealing to the eye and she didn't do it in my opinion
Plants are funny. They actually start out small and grow larger. Strange stuff.
I grew vegetables in my front yard for years. Last year the front beds held 2 kinds of tomatoes, eggplant, and green and jalapeno peppers, with a few red annual flowers tucked among them to attract bees. Also had a little free-standing trellis with cucumber growing up it. OK, so I'm not exactly in a cookie-cutter subdivision where all the houses are required to have white-backed drapes in the windows, but it is a typical post-WWII housing plat with the usual foundation shrubbery and impatiens and marigolds lining the stoops and walkways.
I agree with "making something like that appealing to the eye" and maybe the OP family needs to jazz up the boxes or something, but I surely cannot believe anyone actually finds the garden itself unattractive!
Surely is more pleasant to look at than a big ol' RV camper parked in the driveway with a tarp over it for 10 months of the year, or overgrown, untended bushes and vines growing all over the house.
On a street near Balduck Park on the far east side I remember a lady who had perennials growing from her house to the sidewalk... yes they were only flowers... but they were not planted with a "P. Allen Smith's Garden" mindset.... they looked like weeds when driving by on the street... only upon closer inspection did one realize that they were just perennials that didn't all bloom at the same time....
If neighbors don't want to view a vegetable garden in a middle class suburb front lawn.... it begs the question....what will high paying customers to the Detroit Westin Book Cadillac with rooms facing Michigan Ave. have to endure?
Or does it look more orderly from 20 stories up... rather than as a neighbor down the block? :confused:
this has been discussed by me and a few others. most seem to think that a neighbor bitched to a councilperson who looked for a way to 'solve' it. A review of the ordinance does not expressly forbid it.
I hope she doesn't go to jail because that will cost us taxpayers.
I hope she pays a $1000-5000 fine for violating city ordinance.
She was warned
She was ticketed
She ignored these actions by the city to get her property into compliance.
If you let her do as she pleases, it sets a precedent for other people, not just planting gardens out in front, but letting their lawns become overgrown with weeds, storing trash in their front yard or parking cars on their lawn. I congratulate Oak Park for making the effort to look presentable, and enforcing the rules that the majority of citizens deem to be acceptable.
"not just planting gardens out in front, but letting their lawns become overgrown with weeds, " I don't know were you live, but I see that all the time, with all the foreclosures on the market.
@wolverine, the problem is not the property owner being in compliance with an actual identifiable ordinance. There is no wording that specifically says she cannot plant vegetables, only some vague language referring to "common" plantings which is being applied in a very narrow sense. I wonder, would anyone have complained - and what might the city have done - if she'd planted pentunias and pansies in those boxes?
i saw this on the local news last week and it did look well kept but, i don't like it either. is there something wrong with her " backyard" that she couldn't plant there?
Is there something wrong with vegetables that she can't grow what she wants in America?
She should have just told them that she grows them for the blooms and blossoms, like flowers. If you can plant flowers in the front yard, you should be able to plant vegetables.
"If you let her do as she pleases, it sets a precedent for other people, not just planting gardens out in front, but letting their lawns become overgrown with weeds, storing trash in their front yard or parking cars on their lawn. I congratulate Oak Park for making the effort to look presentable, and enforcing the rules that the majority of citizens deem to be acceptable.
Oh right, allowing some tomato plants leads to garbage piles in the front yard. Try being a little less over the top. From all the photos, her garden beds are "presentable". I haven't seen anything that looks any different than a bed of flowers. On what basis can the city dictate that she can have flowers in her front yard but not vegetables? Vegetables aren't noxious or invasive weeds. If this gets in front of a judge, I'll place bets that the city loses with the judge saying that there's no difference between a flower and a vegetable and the city has no basis for denying a homeowner the right to have one but not the other in their front yard.
Well, this is what happens when you live in the suburbs. Subdivisions are even more strict. The aesthetic is nice, decent, clean, safe and presentable... that is what a suburb was designed to be. If you want to be different, you've got to go where you don't have to conform. Urban and rural places -- some of them -- offer more flexibility, with other kinds of compromises.
I had a container garden in front of my Ann Arbor house. I grew flowers the first two years, figured that I couldn't eat 'em, and started growing veggies instead. My garden was beautiful before I reached candidacy, then merely [[barely) presentable during my last two years while I was dissertating. No one cared. They just wanted fresh tomatoes and zucchinis and squash.
As soon as I can gather together my nest egg for my patio here in Detroit, I plan to container garden again. [[My folks always advocate containers or raised boxes unless/until you can get the soil tested.) I wish my neighbors/association/the CoD would. Seriously.
Also -- and people who garden get this -- some of us don't have a backyard, or don't have the right kind of backyard [[for instance, mostly patio or pool), or the sunlight may be terrible. What if everything in the back is shaded by trees/buildings/something else, but you get wonderful sun on the front?
The green lawn aesthetic isn't the only way to go, either. I took out my little patch of lawn in A2 and did a xeriscape instead [[of course, I asked for permission). I've noticed some of my neighbors have already had their lawns and/or patios professionally bricked in, or use stone -- they look beautiful, and frankly, very chic. Of course, it's not feasible to do it if you have a lot of land or live in a place where it's not allowed, but for smaller yards, it's a fun, environmentally safe, allergen friendly way to add curb appeal.
Just wanted to say Id love to have a vegetable garden out front if I had a yard. But if ordinances prohibited it out of collective interest I wouldn't do it. You're right though, bigger cities seem to be a bit more lenient. In fact here in Chicago they permit gardens in public easements, and fencing is permitted so as long as there's enough space for people to get out of parked cars. Meanwhile downtown, my apartment buildings lobby door broke and we would be fined everyday the plywood was NOT painted black.Quote:
Originally Posted by English
IMHO municipal governments should recognize that in these times people are doing what they have to do to survive. Planting your own vegetables serves two very important purposes. It saves money and it gives a family a way to insure that their vegetables are safe to eat, and maybe even organic if that is the way they choose to grow them.
The "government" keeps touting for us to eat healthy. But if you don't grow your own vegetables, it can get pretty expensive. People can grow enough to eat during the season, and then freeze or can them for future use.
As I read that one exemption in their code, it appears the statement allows what she is doing. But even if it doesn't, as long as it is well kept and doesn't interfere in a neighbor's yard, I see no reason to allow it. I remember there was a case a few years ago in Birmingham where a woman planted her entire front yard with wildflowers. Neighbors complained because it wasn't "conforming". As I recall, she was allowed to leave it. But my memory is not always the best, so I can't be absolutely sure.
I agree that many older backyards have large trees and too much shade to allow for growing vegetables. I lived in Huntington Woods for many years, just across Coolidge from Oak Park. The area is filled with huge old trees. The shade is nice when you want to stay cool, but it doesn't allow for enough sun, if that's what you are looking for.
"You can look all throughout the city and you’ll never find another vegetable garden that consumes the entire front yard.” -Oak Park’s Planning and Technology Director Kevin Rulkowski
Huh? Maybe Oak Park’s Planning and Technology Director Kevin Rulkowski should wipe the dust off of his trusty Commodore 64 and do a google image search for "front yard vegetable garden". Mr. Rulkowski's emphasis must have been Conformity back in planning school days.
They certainly have a right to enforce their ordinaces, though I'm surprised they are so strict in their enforcement.
And given the condition of much of Oak Park nowadays, I'm surprised they would expend resources on such a trivial matter. How about first fixing the rest of the city?
There are vacant homes and blight all over the place. Who cares about some contraband zucchini?
FTA: "Exempted from the provisions of this article, inclusive, are flower gardens, plots of shrubbery, vegetable gardens and small grain plots."
Looks like it's explicitly allowed?
I am a vegetable gardener and have talked to my next door neighbor about building a second garden in the side yard between our houses. She likes the idea and we may start the project. It would be visible from the street but not exactly in the front yard.
I have seen front yard gardens from time to time, my aunt in Huntsville, AL has a neighbor who has a front yard vegetable garden because that's where he has the most sun. It's a nice look although it's not for McMansions or lawn freaks.
to me she is doing something acceptable but you cannot ignore tickets/summonses, etc. There are repercussions.
Usually in cases like this, there is a dick neighbor, a dick cop or a dick administrator.
In our city, there cannot be any vegetation over 6" in height. Anything over that height is defined as a "public nuisance." I guess that means gardens are illegal, front yard or back.
Quote:
Bass got the idea to plant a garden in front yard after it was torn up over a busted sewage pipe.
"There were piles of dirt outside and we knew we had to do something," Bass said. "We looked into putting in sod but it was shockingly expensive
This doesn't make any sense. Re-sodding this would have cost a heck of a lot less than $500 and it probably could have been re-seeded for $50 or less. Between re-seeding, sodding, and having professionals get the area ready for a vegetable garden, the last one is clearly the most expensive option.Quote:
According to Bass,the family hired professionals to make the planter boxes, bought tomato trellises, paving stones and a swing at a cost of over $500.
I don't understand why this garden couldn't have been constructed in the backyard. I applaud the garden. It looks fantastic and it looks like she's doing a great job with it, but I still can't get past the fact that putting it in the front yard is completely senseless.
I hope the City of Oak Park allows this woman to continue with her garden and give her a stern warning about doing it again.
"It looks fantastic and it looks like she's doing a great job with it, but I still can't get past the fact that putting it in the front yard is completely senseless."
How so? How is it any more expensive to put it in the front yard than the back?
I haven't seen any images of her back yard... but if there are trees and only shade [[like my back yard) in back of her house... then wouldn't her actions make some sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by sirrealone
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540...3063�
making all the news channels.
My thought: it would be expensive and potentially back-breaking to remove any sod, back yard or front, before putting in that garden and its attendant architecture. Equipment and/or tools would have to be rented for DIY, or they'd have to pay someone to do the work. Having the lawn already removed and perhaps even regraded after the plumbing job was done certainly cut a ton of preparation effort and costs from the project.Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
I know exactly how the homeowner must have felt, looking at that stretch of bald-dirt front yard. BLANK SLATE! Let's do something.... useful with it! I can relate, as I had a new septic system put in last summer. The installers tore up a 100'x60' section of my back yard for the new underground tanks and drainfields. Plant a lawn? WHY? [[Not a garden for me, though - other types of ground cover plants due to that part of my property being almost entirely shady all day).
Every time I look at a big green lawn, I think of the waste of time and water to put in what looks like a carpet in front of your house. To my taste, a lawn is ugly. Her yard looks great. Leave the veggies alone!
Not to mention all the poisonous chemicals they use to make it look like a carpet and to keep any kind of stray weed or flower to mar its perfection. They need to look into all those fertilizers and weed killers as reasons that cancer has increased exponentially in more or less recent years.Quote:
Originally Posted by oldredfordette
Could the homeowner have her vegetable garden in the back yard?
When Henry Ford laid out Garden City with lots large enough so residents could grown their own vegetables, not even he expected that vegetable gardens would be placed in the front yards.
I'm a big supporter of native planting and growing your own vegetables, but I would not like the Oak Park garden next door to me.
She could work to change the ordinance, and maybe a sensible ordinance could be created. Maybe rows of vegetables could be permitted on the sides of a front yard?
What's the difference between having a yard full of vegetables and a yard full of flowers? It's all plant material.
A lot of people want to force their neighbors to never do anything that smacks of poverty or the working-class, even when it's green. Don't grow your own food visibly! We can all afford groceries! Don't hang your laundry out to dry in the sun and wind! Use fossil fuels to power your electric dryer!Quote:
Originally Posted by Novine
I'm not picking on Crystal specifically, but this jumped out at me:
Why does your [[or, more appropriately, the neighbors', in this case) desire to not see a front-yard veggie garden trump the homeowner's desire to place her garden wherever she wants it to be?Quote:
I would not like the Oak Park garden next door to me.
Or people just fear anything that is viewed as out of the ordinary, not normal. I'm amazed at the reactions to something as simple as growing vegetables in an unconventional location. People value conformity and aesthetics way too much, to the detriment of actually doing the right thing. There are homeowners associations in this nation that forbid installing solar panels purely for aesthetic reasons. Hopefully justice prevails in this case and this woman can grow vegetables on her own property wherever she damn well pleases. I'm sure Oak Park has far more pressing issues to deal with than this pettiness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
How does her expressing an opinion in any way suggest that she thinks her view should trump the desire of the home owner? It's just her opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthofNormal
In other news the charges against the home owners have been dropped.
NorthofNormal, I was not asserting that my [[or any neighbor's) wishes or desires would trump the wishes or desires of the homeowner with the vegetable garden. And if I were the next door neighbor, I'm not necessarily suggesting I would complain.
I was only stating my opinion that I would not like to look at such a sight in my neighbor's front yard.
This is a toughie! My family is very supportive of home gardens, organic food, locally sourced food, and gardening to save money.
On the other hand, it's reasonable for a community to establish standards for things like setbacks, lawns, height of homes, etc.
I would really like to know why the garden couldn't be in the back yard. If it were I, I would not use the front yard for a number of reasons, not the least of which would be automobile exhaust possibly tainting the vegetables.
"On the other hand, it's reasonable for a community to establish standards for things like setbacks, lawns, height of homes, etc."
The issue isn't that Oak Park can't regulate these things. It's that they are trying to create a distinction between flowers and vegetables that doesn't exist. Both are plant material. Vegetables aren't a noxious or invasive weed. What's the city justification for allowing one in the front yard and banning the other? "Mind field' nailed the mentality that drives these kinds of disputes. People and communities are so wrapped up into forcing everyone to conform that allowing something different or unusual can't be permitted.
She could have made it look more presentable. My neighbors were schetchy when I tore up the entire back yard with the rototiller and planted everything from broccoli to corn. One year later, no one is complaining at all. All it took was a bit of crushed stone, mulch, and sod [[for my son to play in). My grass skills have always sucked but I have always rocked at making produce. I shared my bounty with most of my block and suddenly nobody has an issue with it.
My wife likes flowers, so she gets the front.... about to be the hanging flower garden...I cant eat it :P