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Has anyone heard anything about a councilperson proposing changing the name of Cass Tech?
Since I am a graduate, I have been getting emails from all over from people asking me about this.
I don't think this is a possibility, but want to go on record as being totally, unequivocally opposed to this.
I mentioned it a few weeks ago when they voted to rename Washington blvd after John Conyers.
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...ington+conyers
The media picked up on it last thursday.
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...al-High-School
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=t...%2Fdetail.html
I don't like Lewis Cass, either. The Indian Removal Act swept most of the Indians out of the lower tier of Michigan, including the Detroit area. A treaty established lands for existing odenak in 1817, and by 1833, they reverted to settlement as the residents were sent to Kansas. I guess the grass quit growing and the water stopped flowing in just 16 years. Some lifetime treaty. Cass was the enforcer, not the initiator or enactor of the Act, though he assuredly approved of it.
At the same time, I don't associate Cass Tech with Lewis Cass, just the same as I don't associate my alma mater, Wayne State, with General "Mad Anthony" Wayne, who "rid the area of the red menace" by achieving the Treaty of Greenville after some bloody fighting with Tecumseh, et al. I did manage to get rid of that wording on a marker rock in the middle of the campus when I was a green freshman.
Leave it to someone on the Detroit Shitty Clown Show to come up with yet another stupid idea. We can't name schools after Indians, and now we can't name them after "Indian Removers". The image of Indians as peaceful, harmless, non-territorial, utopians can only be believed by someone who has never studied history. Ignorance may be bliss, but an ignorance of history is stupid.
Say the same thing after I kicked down your door and throw you out of your house. You would go to war too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit
yes, change Cass Tech, Cass Ave, Fort Wayne, Wayne County, Jefferson, Washington, Woodward, Gratiot, and Fort Street. Then change the name Detroit as it displaced the pre-1701 residents of the area.
While we're at it we should change the name of Cobo Hall, Cobo Arena, ... both holdovers from one of the last Republicans that held the title Mayor. Change the Edsel Ford freeway because his father hated jews, and the Reuther because he studied communism in the Soviet Union.
Hmm, this is great, rename everything because everything makes someone mad. Make sure you spend as much time and effort as possible on this important symbolic task. We need more symbolic tasks around here. More fist raising, head weaving, u dissing me symbolism.
yepyep, more that.
Right, carrying political correctness to illogical extremes by focusing on one particular thing someone did that makes someone mad, while ignoring every other thing they did that didn't make those people mad, but might have made somebody else mad. Don't name something after Conyers because he had a serious lapse in judgment giving his name to a crazy person whose name would then also be associated with said landmark, road or building...
Just because somebody has an idea doesn't make it a great idea. I think a good assignment for those students would be to thoroughly research Cass and list things that he did that they could agree with on one side, and things they don't agree with on the other side. They have to look at everything, not just things that apply to Indians. I wonder how many of said students are Potawatomi descendants, those from this area who were directly impacted by the IRA of 1833. And I am also curious how Cass actually felt about his assigned task of defying the Supreme Court and removing the Cherokee. I guess he could have been OK with it, since he did not resign in protest.
Surely, there are more important things to do on city council time. If not, there may be a new name on the water ... HOBO HALL.
The only name that needs to change in Detroit is the names of everyone on the Detroit City Council...by re-electing a whole new Council....:p
Isn't that cute, JoAnn Watson introduced the resolution.
Of course all these name changes will cost tax-payer money, so maybe that's why Her Roundness is so supportive of it, since she doesn't really have much invested in the tax pool.
Of course this all works for her. An ultimate race-baiter and all-around loudmouth, Jo can go around proposing completely pointless, controversial, non-nonsensical resolutions while the city's tax-roles remain in shambles and the city teeters on bankruptcy. Including a vacant lot on Stuyvesant.
The Coleman A. Young Corridor? Kind of fitting.
This whole topic has started some interesting conversations. I had lunch the other day at Wasabi with a group of very insightful, mature teenagers who all attend Cass. We discussed the reasons why the issue was brought up in the first place, and the possible political ramifications. They were aware to a certain extent of Lewis Cass' history, but felt that the defining force of the school was made by the many alumni whose good works and innovative stances changed the world for the better.
It makes me wonder if this goes through, are they going to change the name of Henry Ford High School, The Henry Ford, Henry Ford Hospital and anything associated with ol' Henry himself because he was a Nazi sympathizer back in the day? Interesting discussions indeed!
As if the Indians never committed one act of unprovoked violence. Yes, white people took land away from the Indians. But Indians also took land away from other Indians, and Indians took land away from the peaceful, harmless, non-territorial Utopian animals who had the Western Hemisphere all to themselves. Wonder what PETA would think?Quote:
Originally Posted by R8RBOB
As long as human population keeps increasing, people will need to consume land. Given another 10,000 years, the Indians would have gone off looking for other continents to exploit and plunder. It's just that the Europeans beat them to it.
It is very difficult to have 2 groups of people with such disparity living side by side. The Indians had to be removed. The fact that an Indian living today is more likely to be communicating over the internet than a white person is to be communicating with the use of smoke signals is a pretty clear indication of which lifestyle is more favorable.
Wow, I don't even know how to begin commenting on that statement.Quote:
It is very difficult to have 2 groups of people with such disparity living side by side. The Indians had to be removed. The fact that an Indian living today is more likely to be communicating over the internet than a white person is to be communicating with the use of smoke signals is a pretty clear indication of which lifestyle is more favorable.
Indians ruled both American continents before the Euros committed genocide. Why so disparaging ?
... quality of student performance/achievement should be the main concern of council.. not school names.. the dead white dudes a lot of public institutions/streets are named after is just par for the course.. obviously nobody wants to live on Hitler Avenue, but in any case...
I would be more interested in changing the name of the Bates Academy as it bothers me that a CONVICTED FELON has a DPS named after him. Same for Beckham.
I suspect that wont happen since some on the clown council gleefully supported that name to honor their beloved friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by ct_alum
Wow. Retroit, I have run into more than a few racists in my time, but you take the cake. You have not progressed beyond Manifest Destiny, and I doubt you ever will. May you be left flopping in the backwater of your divine right as we pass by shaking our heads in shock and disbelief.
Ct alum, if you're refering to The Beckham Academy, it's not named after Charlie Beckham [[convicted felon); but rather his late brother William Beckham who was a major Detroit civic leader. Among many other things, he served as president of New Detroit.
http://metrotimes.com/archives/story.asp?id=11595
I believe that this whole name changing is on the surface silly but when you get down to it, its another attack on a school that has over the past 30 years has had its programs slowly dismantled and put into other schools by DPS admininstrators with the support of factions of the community. The result of which has weaken the national image of the school while not achieving the desired results for the rest of the system with the possible exception of Renaissance HS and the Vocational Technical Centers.
If by chance the name change did succeed, it might be for the best. The dismantling would be complete, and it would be best to let the alumni remember the school for what it was.
gazhekwe,
Trails of Tears, Manifest Destiny, and Divine Right were not concepts that the Indians had to learn from the white man. The Indians were brutal to each other prior to, and after the arrival of, the white man. It is inherent in human nature to defend and acquire territory.
It's not a matter of me being racist. Quite the contrary, actually. I'm saying we are both the same - good and bad. The biggest problem with white man - Indian relationships was their difference in lifestyles due to their unequal levels of civilization. 10,000 years ago, white people lived like Indians of 200 years ago; and given another 10,000 years of isolation, the Indians would probably be living like whites of 200 years ago. I'm not saying that whites are superior to Indians; I'm saying we are the same. Europeans [[and Middle Easterners and Orientals) simply had advantages due to geography, natural resources, greater populations, etc. that enabled them to develop earlier. The fact that Indians today are living quite capably in a white man's world instead of their former Indian world, and the fact that Indians have fought bravely in the defense of "white man's America" is proof that there is no racial difference.
Rosa Parks Technical High School, anyone?
Mother Watson Tech ?
Here's a thought. Stop naming things after people. All people are fallible and if you look closely enough you can find something about anyone that someone will find objectional. Or at least wait about 500 years to make sure the person has been properly vetted. :D
Continuing the side argument with Retroit:
Europeans [[and Middle Easterners and Orientals) simply had advantages due to geography, natural resources, greater populations, etc. that enabled them to develop earlier.
This is a common misconception. The Europeans had superior weaponry and a lot more practice at fighting extensive wars. That is the ONLY advantage they had.
To compare the European civilization with civilizations they encountered in the Americas in a way that disparages the New World civilizations is the quintessential ingredient of Manifest Destiny. It isn't like ours, so it must be inferior and therefore we are justified in attempting to eradicate it. We can beat up on them so let;s get on with it.
Yes - like we did with Christopher Columbus !Quote:
Or at least wait about 500 years to make sure the person has been properly vetted.
Oh...wait...
Is Martin Luther King Jr. High School promoting promiscuity? No. Men are flawed. Lewis Cass was a man who through today's logic made grievous errors, but they should not detract from what he did bring to society. Would his name be attached to a school on a reservation? No, but the name of a great Chief likely would be, who killed many non-indians, and indians alike. I wouldn't have a problem with that. Speaking of which, we will need to rename Pontiac!
That Watson is behind this is no shock. I used to work with her. We stopped speaking, even though we had to work together in the same room, just me & her. I simply couldn't think of anything productive to say to her, and she wasn't the nicest person you ever did meet...
Quote:
The Europeans had superior weaponry and a lot more practice at fighting extensive wars. That is the ONLY advantage they had.
Don't mean to intrude into your perfectly good argument, but I always thought that writing is what gave the europeans the edge. Massive numbers of europeans could read what had been written by others, therefore multiplying, by a factor of 10, knowledge with each generation. Writing gave europeans the ablity to not just build better things, but it gave them the ability to out-fox the foxes.
Moreover, europeans were just more egalitarian in teaching their populace to read and write. In contrast to Far and Mid East cultures, where the educated class occupied a seperate and segregated class, in europe the ability to read and write was more catholic in application. Not saying it was universal, just more so than any other culture.
I believe the reluctance - in certain cultures - to allow women to read and write is a hold-over from the time when only the elites could go to school, but I digress.
The europeans came here, wrote stuff down and sent it back for others to read. New folks arrived and so on and so forth.
As valuable as oral traditons and petraglyphs are within the ethnographic study of a culture, it sure can't beat a good set of books, a compass and a few maps. I don't know why first nation peoples didn't develop writing beyond elemental symbols, I just know they didn't and that is what placed them at a huge disadvantage.
Resistance to certain diseases was another advantage. I thought more Native Americans were wiped out by diseases brought from Europe than actual warfare.Quote:
This is a common misconception. The Europeans had superior weaponry and a lot more practice at fighting extensive wars. That is the ONLY advantage they had.
Such very offensive statements, and with very little subsequent rebuke. But alas, freedom of speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retroit
The difficulty justified the end?
"Removed"!!!
There was a war...Injuns lost
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, you're abusing the privilege.
Being stupid would be exemplified by those who don't acknowledge history because it doesn't fit their present sensibilities.
If the Europeans didn't come here and take over, Gnome would be off in Lilliput bitching about something else.
Louis Cass was a fine guy. Have a cocktail and a cigar and salute him.
Perhaps Dave Bing will actually do something great while in office and then we can have a justification for a new building instead of renaming old buildings for for friends and family of the latest ruling class of Detroit who don't deserve more than a swift kick in the pants.
Nice one tough guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_mafia
They did lose. How would you like to rewrite that bit of history?
No one disputes the reality that white folks left Europe and floated in this this direction. No one disputes that there were wars between the natives and the immigrants.
But I do dispute your use of a pejorative. Just because you have internet access at the library doesn't give you the right to insult people, to use terms that are known to be harmful. I enjoy reading your posts as I feel they give a little balance to the left-leaning status of the forum, but using denigrating language is not only wrong but it shows that you have a narrow and vapid understanding of history, as well as an inablity to correctly use language.
As a Republican, I object to you wrapping the mantle of being a conservative around your consumptive shoulders. Your jaundiced eye, vile sputumic utterances have no credence here, little man.
Be gone, before someone drops a house on you too.
Fabulous use of the extended vocabulary along with the allegorical response to address my innuendo regarding the diminutive stature of the writer!
I find you entertaining as well....and also wrong
Good point about mutually understandable written word, though many many Europeans were not literate in any language. There were written languages here, and they were mutually understandable to many nations. That the writings were largely pictographic does not detract from their value.
Also so good point about the disease factor. Euro-diseases that were brand new to the immune systems of the residents of this continent were a highly effective leveler. The deaths of a good 90% of the original people did a lot of damage to the wealth of historic, medical, astronomical, engineering and agricultural knowledge that was here. Try losing 90% of your knowledge base and see what resources remain.
The Europeans came here and determined, through Manifest Destiny, that the people that were already here were less than human, so they used any means available to rid themselves of their troublesome hosts. That is the reprehensible and objectionable part of the history that must be acknowledged.
Removal was the end result of lies told by the US government to gain peace and acquiescence. Once that was achieved and the natives were confined in their limited lands with restricted access to food, water and medicines, it was easy to decide they might as well be put somewhere out of the way, like in the lands of other natives who were not asked if they wanted these people dumped into their already limited areas. Once those lands were wanted. and it took less than one generation, the native residents were again attacked, and forced into even more restricted areas, with even less ability to obtain food and other necessities.
Maybe it sounds like and easy and great and perfectly fair solution to you. If so, it shows your complete failure to think things through, and realize the consequences of removing people from their settled areas where they had their food, medicine and water all figured out, and sending them to completely different ecosystems where everything was different, and there were other people already there who didn't want them.
Lands were taken from other peoples throughout the history of the world. Spoils go to the victors.
Were we kinder to Germany and Japan than to the Native Americans? Hell yeah.
That said, it is what it is and in other lands, similar or worse fates were left to the losers of the battles. We just seem to spend a lot of time dwelling on the injustice of America as if it was unique. In fact, we should be celebrating the fact that the injustices are the exception not the rule for this country.
It's unjust wherever it happens. We, in America, dwell on things that happened in America because that's where we are and who we are. When analyzing our history, we should call each individual event like we see it, not decide that since we think of ourselves as basically good people, all the not-so-good stuff we did is either justified or doesn't count.Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_mafia
You are ignoring most of what I said, --mafia. It isn't just the atrocities perpetrated by the US in promoting settlement of the continent by its white citizens at the expense of people of color. You need to know, the injustices to American Indians continue to this day. This country, meaning all the people in it, including the statistically insignificant, are complicit in the continuing deceit and injustice.
Did you know that it was unlawful for American Indians to practice their religion until 1978? That included all Indian medicine, cultural and spiritual teachings. Some aspects are still illegal. Can you name any other religion outlawed in this land founded on religious freedom?
Did you know that funds paid by private entities for use of Indian land is paid to trust fund kept by the BIA? Did you know that said trust fund cannot account for many billions of dollars that were paid into this fund for the benefit Indian tribes? Did you know that the BIA has given up on trying to account for that money, and that this stance has been agreed to by a Federal District Court which then awarded the Tribes just a tiny fraction of the missing amount? This matter is on appeal to the Federal Court of Appeals. http://www.indiantrust.com/
There are many other examples of injustices and inequalities, not just the r
Gazhekwe,
You are right. I was being too flippant regarding an issue that is clearly close to your heart. I apologize.
I hope that the current injustices can be resolved.
Migwech, Irish_mafia. [[Thank you) I appreciate that.