Interesting article on the private security in PW. I know I wouldn't mess with that guy in a big black Hummer. Nice to see that that new U of D Mercy president is moving into the neighborhood.
http://www.freep.com/article/2011060...-style-patrols
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Interesting article on the private security in PW. I know I wouldn't mess with that guy in a big black Hummer. Nice to see that that new U of D Mercy president is moving into the neighborhood.
http://www.freep.com/article/2011060...-style-patrols
Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast
And if you did mess with him, what's supposed to happen? He just calls the police. But, it's an underfunded police budget and police response times that are the problem. Are there any FBI or DPD statistics to prove there was a reduction in crime?
From the article it says, "No one is obligated to show ID, and there is no bellowing over a loudspeaker for anyone to pull over. Brown and his staff discreetly monitor the person, confirming with a homeowner to determine whether the person is a valid guest or contractor. If they see suspicious or criminal behavior, Recon staff members call police."
It's odd that they're promoting it as a "neighborhood marketing tool".
Regardless of its effectiveness, I don't think self-proclaimed "paramilitary-style security" is a neighborhood selling point, as if Palmer Woods is sitting amongst the shantytowns of Honduras.
But, if it cuts crime in the long run, it could be good for property values, regardless of the [[IMO) oppressive security presence.
Neighborhood watch and citizen's patrols are better, but we all know that PW residents are probably too rich to bother driving around or talking to each other...
I can already see one of the mainstream media outlets picking up the story as a quick "Detroit is still fucked up" piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
"better" how? And I'm guessing that in the last 10 years as property values have plummeted, many middle class people live in Palmer Woods. It still isn't Grosse Pointe Shores, and there are some modest houses there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
I am a volunteer patroller and have been for years. However residents of stable communities have jobs, families, and hobbies, like the rest of humanity, and cannot dedicate all their time to patrolling. We have a paid patrol as well as a volunteer one. It helps alleviate some of the burden from the residents who have enough responsibilities trying to maintain their neighborhoods, often with no/only sporadic help from the City.
This is definitely a selling point and definitely a deterrent. This isn't the movies; criminals in this city are actually just low-life, loser pussies. The last thing most of them want is any kind of attention or confrontation from anyone. If you were a low-life criminal, and given the choice of ripping off a neighborhood with this guy cruising around, or one where no one was paying attention, which would you choose?
Quite an assumption there DetroitNerd. I would keep your comments to yourself. This town is negative enough without you making accusations and claims about things you apparently have no knowledge of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
I think its a good idea,, its not easy to keep the good established hoods in Detroit that way, and there are many of us who dont want to run and are doing what can be done. Its not a unique idea either, Many cities have areas whose residents have similar protection. Look around Florida, many areas , if not gated,, have these type of patrols. You just need to do what you need to do.
Typically criminals want as little hassle as possible. If you are thinking of doing something illegal and you encounter a patrol and see somebody watching you, how likely are you to confront them? More likely you just leave and go someplace else. Maybe you come back later and hope no one sees you then. As far as deterrence goes, that's all a police patrol could do--it's not a crime to drive through Palmer Woods. Of course police could run plates or warrants.
The biggest problem with the patrols is getting a sufficient percentage of the homeowners to pay their dues. In the University District [[ which has its own patrol) I think less than 20% of people contribute.
Palmer Woods is a beautifull neighborhood, one of Detroit's best as a matter of fact it is the best. I do alot of work out there and one of those robo cops [[Black Guy)approached us while we were CLEARLY working mowing multiple houses, stoped us from working asked for our ID's. I was like for one who are you? and dont you see us working. he gave us some BS excuse and we complied but it felt a little overbearing. the very next week the Black Guy wasnt out there it was a white guy. He road past us and waved. I being Black expected him to get out and go through all the same crap the other guy did but he didnt. he was cool. he saw we were hardworking and didnt see any threat I assume. I learned alot that day, and that experience has helped me grow.
But w/ all that said and those military like folks out there one of my customers got his brand new Porche truck stolen. when he told me I thought how in the heck did they do that w/ all these robo thugs running around, just goes to show if someone has bad intentions bad things are going to happen regardless.
Speaking as someone who lives in perhaps the most heavily patrolled and surveilled neighborhood in the city, you have to do what you have to do, and so do viable neighborhoods. There are no guarantees, though.
I was once a part of an effort to get one of these private patrols started in Woodbridge. We had a citizens patrol for some time but its hard to keep that going without a critical mass of the right personalities. The effort floundered and though some would say its ongoing I reckon that we will not see this type of patrol in Woodbridge anytime soon.
At first I went along with the idea, but after meeting the thugs who planned to employ to keep the neighborhood safe I pulled out. They came to the interview in brown shirts and hats and wearing chains. As a descendant of people who suffered at the hands of fascism in Europe it gave me the jeepers.
We don't need private militias, thats for the third world, what we need is a well funded and competent police department. These private patrols are the first step on the slippery slope to South Africa style fenced in communities surrounded by slums. I for one will not be a part of that. This is the United States of America people.
Can you say brown shirts? No to private patrols, yes to police funding. How can we pay for it? Hmmmm lets start with taxing Matty Maroun and Mike Illitch and their cronies. Protection only for the rich, I smell social danger.
Oh, sure. It's only the richest part of Detroit, where most of the City Council lives. Common knowledge. Your idea that anybody on a message board should keep comments to theirself is as ridiculous as it is hilarious. Go jump in a lake. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Strathcona
I guess I'd say that I like citizen patrols and neighborhood watches better because it forces the active population to really get to know each other and work together. You're already familiar with the neighborhood, people's comings and goings, and you know how to spot something abnormal. Anything that builds a stronger community is terrific, better than paying a guy to drive around your neighborhood who may or may not know the people in it. Although, in the end, that's pretty good too, I suppose.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPole
I was under the impression that some of the better neighborhoods in Detroit stay that way because the residents talk to and look out for each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
OK, but let's say you live in that area and your neighbor is ... Monica Conyers ... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMe
I don't want to appear like I'm hounding you, which is not my intention, but in fact zero of the current council people live in Palmer Woods proper. Gary Brown lives nextdoor in Sherwood Forest, but he's the closest, and its still not Palmer Woods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
I'm sensitive to the issue because I live in one of the nicer 'hoods of Detroit and have people hurl accusations at me like I "practically live in Grosse Pointe" when it is not the case at all. We all have to deal with many of the same challenges as City of Detroit residents.
I know. Thanks for sharing. But for most of Detroit, there ain't all that much difference between Palmer Woods, Palmer Park, or even Sherwood Forest. The citywide perception is very much, "That's where the people who can afford to live." Specifically, neighborhoods where the richest Detroiters live [[the Feigensons, for instance), with private security, few through-streets and an air of exclusivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPole
Oh, heck. I'm sure it's just like any ol' Detroit neighborhood, right? I'll just wander back home to my personal Tudor mansion and think things over. ;)
Don't "most of the City Council" live in North Rosedale Park? I know that for many years that area had a real concentration of City Council members, but I'm not sure of the present-day Council. As stated above, none live in Palmer Woods, and we've never to my knowledge had any Council members in Indian Village. In fact, one of the main complaints around here from folks who support Council by district is the consistent lack of representation from the Eastside.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
I understand the concerns about the US becoming a nation of shantytowns, although you might make similar comments about private schooling and such. But this kind of thing seems like making the best of a bad situation, and probably should be encouraged. One should hope that, even if they do not intervene, they at least record evidence.
Actually, most of the last council lived downtown. Cockrel lives in Woodbridge, so maybe Dnerd should chill. Pugh lives downtown, I believe. The reason the charter commission drew districts is because there were so few politicians living in any 'hoods outside of the Boulevard.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
If you have any council people living in PW then they should be investigated, because based on a council salary they shouldn't be able to afford living in PWQuote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
That's a ridiculous comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by firstandten
Palmer Woods has had home sales well under 200k. Average Joes can buy the more modest homes in Palmer Woods nowadays. A city council salary is more than sufficient.
And councilmembers may have other income sources or working spouses/family members.
I still am in awe that this attitude exists today that some Detroiters are somehow more authentic than other Detroiters. That somehow you must live in some bohemian collective or the ultra-ghetto to really be Detroit. Really, at this stage of the game we are still splitting hairs? I live in a modest old bungalow, but if you live in the City of Detroit and take care of your shit and respect your neighbors you are kin to me.
Ref: Midtown/Harlem....doorman/no doormanQuote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPole
I don't even know how to respond to this. Who do you think you are?Quote:
Originally Posted by firstandten
If you were asking a question it would be legitimate. But you made a statement and you have know idea what your talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
Why do you say that.? I guess because your handle is strathcona you know everything about PW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strathcona
Historically you don't have career councilpeople living in PW. However as I failed to mention if there is a working spouse, or a special case like Gary Brown, or a foreclosure deal then I could see a council person living in PW.
However based on what they make, yeah it would raise a red flag if they were living in PW.
You can respond to it any way you like.
With Detroit's history of corruption and pay to play with its politicans I would be suspicious of any politican who seemed to be living beyond their means. In all likely-hood a councilperson living in PW absence other income that could be validated would raise a red flag.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strathcona
Thank you. That's all most decent folks care about.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPole
This argument is idiotic and is showing the ignorance and hatred that is so rampant in the city and why it struggles so much to improve itself. Yes Palmer Woods is a nice neighborhood and the homes are big, but no that does not mean people who live there are fabulously wealthy. There are almost 300 homes in the neighborhood and I can count on one hand the number of people I would classify as being "rich". I have lived there for 20 years and in that time not one council member has lived in the neighborhood. Inner city people might look at PW as being where rich Detroiters live so they don't have to really be in the city because it is so close to the burbs. Well here is a little history fact for you. The neighborhood is at this location because it was close to the car factories built in Highland park and it is where many of the plant managers and other executives chose to live. The people who have and do live in Palmer Woods are people who have worked hard to get to where they are in life and if they want to spend that hard earned money on a nice home then why should anyone come down on them for that? Unlike many places in the city Palmer Woods is a community with diversity in its residents and has people who give a damn about their neighborhood and work hard at keeping it a nice place to live. Yes Recon security is a bit over the top but it is better to have that than to have a truck driving around with a flashing light burning gas and doing diddly squat about crime occurring. Many of our residents are busy people who work long hours and simply do not have the time to have a neighborhood patrol. I very much doubt that anyone on here who has attacked Palmer Woods or the other neighborhoods around us have even set foot here let alone spoken with any of the people who live there. I would also like to ask this question, why would someone who is really as rich as you think we are chose to live in Detroit when they could easily buy a similar home in the burbs where taxes would be lower, crime lower, have better city services. We live here because we care about the city and we work to make it a better place, if we need to hire a private security company to patrol our streets because the DPD cannot stop crime then that is our right and I have a hard time imagining anyone else who would do otherwise. Also FYI Recon is very affordable and the cost was substantially less than any other company and we get a whole lot more service than we ever got before, so it is not like it is some big extravagant expenditure either.
Yeah, but Recon are still a bunch of fascist brownshirts. Of all the private security companies in the city I would be worried about them the most.
Why would you call them a bunch of facist brownshirts? They are polite, hard working, and good at what they do. Sure they may be a bit overbearing and maybe a bit too agressive, but in this day and age in Detroit I think that is what is called for. It is better to have them question everyone at least once in order to get a feel for the neighborhood and its residents and then know who belongs and who doesnt than to let the criminal element run amok and wreck the place. I was one of the residents who first suggested using them and conducted some of the interviews with them to see how they would fit in the neighborhood. At first I thought wow these guys are taking this thing a bit too far and it is kind of insane, but after seeing them operate I am happy to have them around. Earlier this year we had a squatter take over a home that was vacant and for sale. He turned out to be one of those whacko soverign citizens and he believed it was his right to simply take over this home. He even started to build a huge privacy fence around the sides and back of the home, on the neighbors property no less. Recon was instrumental in getting him out, and I am thankful for that because I was there when the police arrested him and he turned out to be heavily armed. Had it been neighbors going after him I hate to think of what might have happened. I think the dpd could learn a lot from Recon in terms of being much more cost effective and how to better police the city, and if they were more like Recon then we would not have to hire private security in the first place.
Well said ragnarok.