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I happened to look down on a sidewalk in my neighborhood in Vancouver, Washington and noticed that the concrete was stamped when it was laid with: Kilkenny 1914
Man, I thought. That's some old C-ment. Even when I lived in Corktown, I don't recall seeing any hundred year old sidewalks.
They don't seem to make concrete like they used to. My street in Warren was poured in 1958 and it's in remarkable condition.
Sounds strange. Most roads 100 years ago were cedar planks, dirt or pavers.. The first road in the world paved was woodward and that was 1909.
It seems unlikely that sidewalks would be paved 100 years ago.
The oldest concrete street is in Bellefontaine, Ohio, circa 1891.
From the Wiki entry, where they included a photo:
Court Avenue is a small street in downtown Bellefontaine, Ohio, United States, located adjacent to the Logan County Courthouse. Constructed in 1891, it is known for being the first street in the United States to be paved with concrete.
For more, here's the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_Avenue
Indian Village as some original sidewalks....some are even stamped with the pre-WWII Swastika symbol.
I stand corrected. I guess they always use the qualifier of 'first paved mile.'Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardhat
the few blocks on west grand blvd. across the street from motown have the same symbol, paved from the 1910- 1920 era.
One of our sidewalks here in Rosedale Park is stamped 1917; Glastonbury south of Grand River.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidlegg/8007990346/
It's not in Detroit and it's only 84 years old, but here is a 2011 photo of a section of concrete in Center Line that was installed by my grandfather in 1928, along with the brass stamp that he used to make the imprint:
Peter Plewa. Cement Contractor. Hamtramck. 1918
There are many in Indian Village. On one of the tours, I noticed a sidewalk that was over 100 years old and had a swastika trade mark [[swastikas used to be a good symbol).
Also, on Commonwealth in Woodbridge, I noticed some dated 1914.
The Portland-Vancouver area does not go through the freeze-thaw cycles that SE Michigan goes through. It seldom remains below 32F here in the daytime. Average daily high in Feb is around 50F. That may contribute to 100 year old sidewalks here.
I cannot tell you how fascinating it is to see the stamp that made that imprint 84 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeg
It's amazing to think of how much of this area has been captured from wilderness, cleared, leveled, and built upon.
I haven't walked it in a long time, but if you walk around the block my grandparents lived on [[11768 Kilbourne) there are several sections of sidewalk dating back to 1910, etc. Also, on Promenade between Roseberry and Barrett. When we were kids we used to play a game to find the oldest section of sidewalk. I imagine they are still there, or at least most of them,.
Fun thread! Somewhat related and just as fascinating to me is solid stone curbing. There are fragments of them all over the older parts of Detroit. They are not date stamped but I often wonder how old they are. Many appear to be a red sandstone. A lot of them were lost downtown with the big sidewalk makeover prior to the Super Bowl. Will get pic soon to show.
Maybe a trip to the Detroit Historical Meuseum would provide some answers? Though I don't recall them having any "modern Detroit" displays. The stone curbs were probably put in place way before modern concrete sidewalks.
It thought i heard that the curbing was basault [[sp) from New York and Penn used as ballast in the shipping trade. Maybe ? Bet MikeG would know.
The Ferndale Historical Museum has a section of sidewalk on display. It is stamped 1914 IIRC - I think it was the oldest section of sidewalk in the city, and when it finally needed replacement, they displayed it at the museum rather than dispose of it. I always found it interesting since it predates the construction of my home by only 4 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
The actual stamp! What an amazing thing for you to have!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeg
The oldest I ever noticed in the 7 Mile & Hayes area were from 1928. They've disappeared along with the last of the red stone curbs over the last deccade.
Funny, I've never seen them that old. From what I understand, they used to really soak the water into the concrete when they laid it. Like, saturate it with water for several days. This was how they laid the slabs, I hear, for the original Davison Expressway, which lasted damn near fifty years. Look over any thread on this site about concrete or contractors and there's usually a lively discussion about how we could lay concrete that would last longer, but today's road-building contractors won't do it.
I usually look for sewer caps and fire hydrants when it comes to years and infrastructure. Oldest sewer cap I've seen is 1908 in Hamtramck, in the alley east of Campau between Hanley and Jacob. Oldest hydrant would be 1914, I think, on the south side of Vernor Highway west of Junction.
That stamp is very cool. It is fantastic that you still have it. What a family treasure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeg
A little piece of trivia about old concrete: it never stops curing. It just keeps getting harder and harder forever. Even stranger, it's simply water that causes this to happen. I'm guessing that's why they saturated it for several days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
I love this site...what a great topic. When I was a kid growing up down on the east side in the Jeff Chalmers neighborhood, I remember as I walked home from Guyton Elementary along Scripps crossing Marlborough and then Chalmers [[my Block) I always walked over a few slabs that were stamped 1914, I know the oldest house on my block was built in 1916 so these were probably poured as the area was platted out in the teens. So we've got some almost 100 year old concrete out there still. Not to mention the bricks on Marlborough are over 100 years old already. We also had the solid slab curbs that Lowell mentioned before they were replaced sometime in the 1970's. Great Thread folks!
When we had our garage replaced a few years ago, the builder told us to water the new cement every day for a week. I believe that portland cement cures through a chemical reaction that produces heat, which is what actually cures the cement. The ancient Romans didn't have a chemical reaction in their cement, so they heated the cement in ovens before they poured. Look how long their cement has lasted!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
Actually, the Romans used some ingredients that did bond chemically.
http://www.romanconcrete.com/docs/spillway/spillway.htm
There is a list of sidewalks poured in residential areas in 1913, FWIW.
See here.
http://books.google.com/books?id=cuB...ewalks&f=false
Ive always loved the old stone curbs you can still find around the city.
It cracks me up that here on the Eastside they've laid new corners with the red steel diamond plate embedded in them on every block including blocks that only have one house on them. Im speaking of just East of 75 between 94 X Warren. A desolate area where it just seemed a waste of work,
I love the new red diamond plate as Im a bit visually impared and when riding my bike it helps me see where I can ride up on a sidewalk without hitting a curb and doing an endo. I wonder what the real reason for the diamond plate is though?
Good thread.
Any pics of the swastikas?
I believe they were installed to comply with an ADA ruling against the city, which is why they're on corners with little to no foot traffic anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
I can attest to the dates and swastikas [[non-inverted as the Nazi's used) in IV. I was always intrigued as a kid growing up there riding my bike as to the oldest one. As I recall 1909 was the oldest I saw. I'm thinking Seminole and St. Paul area.
Another tidbit relating to curbs in the city is the outright lack of them on several far east side streets. If you drive Neff between E. Warren and Mack for example you'll notice that on many blocks there are no curbs at all. This is a result of street laying through the WPA in the 1930's. Men were hired to grade and lay residential streets even before any developer had acquired the land to build housing. I have an aerial photo of the area that shows a huge grid of streets and no houses. Ironically, similar views can be had today with Google Earth et. al. as the houses disappear.
I usually notice the caps for lighting for infrastructure age.
Here's a photo I snapped from the summer. - DVD
Attachment 15862
Wow!! What an interesting article!Quote:
Originally Posted by Islandman
Here is a picture of the concrete ceiling of the Pantheon, which was
mentioned in the article:
http://streetviewtourism.com/attachm...theon-rome.jpg
Still curing, after more than 20 centuries...
I found another sidewalk in Vancouver, Washington a few days ago that had a contractors name and a 1910 stamp in the concrete. Near the 1910 marking was a brass geodetic marker of more recent years indicating that I was at something like 107 feet above sea level.
Are there any geodetic markers in Detroit? For all the decades that I lived in Detroit, I can't recall seeing any geodetic markers.
1907 on St. Paul btwn Shipherd and Van Dyke. I'll try to remember to get a photo.
On Bedford, between Munich and Cornwall, we used to have those red sandstone curbs - I remember them as a kid. They have long, long since been replaced with poured concrete ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowell
This is very interesting! I was amazed when I moved to Redford a number of years ago, that our neighborhood west of Beech just south of Six Mile has hydrants and sidewalks that are from 1928-1929. If I had to guess I'd say that signficant stretches are still original, at least 60-70% in place. Most of them still have the stamps that they put in place to number the lots... four digit stamps in the sidewalk crack where each property line ended.
The MOST interesting part of this is that most of the houses in the neighborhood were built in the 50s and 60s. It's almost as if something major happened in 1929 that set back major residential expansion... hmm [[wink wink). The sidewalks and hydrants were in place, and are over 80 years old.
I went on a bicycle ride today in Grosse Pointe, noticed old, pockmarked squares on St.Paul St. in the Neff and University area stamped 1928.
also a name on one, but I cant read it.
Since starting this thread, I came upon another sidewalk in Vancouver, Washington stamped "1910." The area where I live is on the edge of downtown Vancouver about a mile from the I-5 Columbia River bridge crossing, about 8 miles from downtown Portland.
In recent weeks, I have also found some "geodetic benchmarks," round brass markers somewhat smaller than a hockey puck that are embedded in concrete. The one I found indicated that this area near the Columbia River is 70 feet above sea level, if I recall the figure right. Funny that I recall seeing some geodetic markers along M-29 in Algonac on the St. Clair River, but I can't recall noticing any in Detroit. Anyone ever notice such markers where they live?
We have them in various places here in the other Vancouver. They are marked "British Columbia Control Survey"Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Publican
http://www.flickr.com/photos/50318388@N00/4527017143
Not sure if this was shared already, but we have some sidewalks stamped 1915 up in Palmer Woods...
The sidewalk in front of my house in Hubbard Farms indicates and 188?. You tell me. The house was built in 1906 when the block was subdivided. The street was here in 1856. Attachment 17404 We also have a pair of swastika in the sidewalk about three houses down.
Related to the sidewalk question....this is an unused driveway dating to about 1912 when the house it accompanies was built. The story in the neighborhood is that it was used as the street entrance for a Model T or similar vehicle. The garage is at the back of the property at the alley. The owner would simply pull the vehicle out the drive and into the street down this steep ramp and would return through the alley, which afforded a gradual slopeAttachment 17411. The garage has bay doors on two sides, so when they return to the garage, the car is already facing the street.
What are the steel round posts in the ground that say 'City of Detroit Control Monument' used for? [[usu. on sidewalks). In addition, in the middle of some intersections, like at 7 Mile and Greenfield, have steel "x" markers embedded in them- I thought they were population markers? , or are they used in/for street grading or surveyors?
Looks like I'm the winner. 18---blah, blah, blah
Quote:
Originally Posted by robtandersen