Gilbert Tweets @Council "Belle Isle...What is so hard?"

Dan Gilbert seems to have stayed out of the political fray but the breakdown of negotiations over the status of Belle Isle has drawn him out according to this Tom Walsh Freep article.

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After Quicken Loans chairman and Cleveland Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert broadcast his disappointment via Twitter on Tuesday about the Detroit City Council's inaction on the proposal to have Belle Isle run as a state park, he said, his own people at Quicken were ticked off at him and worried about making waves politically.

"I think they thought, 'Why do that? Now the council's going to be all upset,' and I said, 'Look, I'm not going to hold back my disappointment,' " Gilbert told me Wednesday after speaking to a Detroit Venture Partners conference in Detroit.

Gilbert tweeted that it was a disappointment. The tweet, sent under his handle @cavsdan, was more plaintive than angry, saying, "Det. City Council can't make easy decision turning Belle Isle into a state park. It's light years better. What is so hard?"

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When Dan Gilbert talks will Council Listen? to paraphrase the old E. F. Hutton ad"

Another quote from Gilbert is also relevant.

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There's a belief system -- a venom almost -- there's a whole sector of human beings who not only bitch about the way the world is, they even become more hostile if someone dares suggest an idea or thought that could make it better. I haven't figured that part of it out.

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I got an idea. Take away 6 million of his tax subsidies and give it to Belle Isle. Problem solved.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

I got an idea. Take away 6 million of his tax subsidies and give it to Belle Isle. Problem solved.

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I think that reinforces what Gilbert is saying. If someone offers you a handout have enough sense to accept it.

It must be nice to use city council as a scapegoat. From the moment it was announced Belle Isle could be a state park, people have had their torches and pitchforks ready for city council to accept this agreement, no questions asked even though the people they represent disagree with the proposal. It's like Hantz Farms. The moment it was proposed people were clamoring for council to accept. It doesn't matter. If the deal goes south and Hantz is another Moroun, it's council's fault for accepting. If they pass, it's still council's fault.

There's a reason why the deal was scrapped. The appointment of a Emergency Manager is coming here before the winter is over.

When that happens, the manager can suggest the state take over management of Belle Isle. At that point, there would be no need of making deals. Rick Synder tried to make one with the city and the city acted against it. Soon, the city government won't have a say in the matter. It will simply, happen.

I'm still confused how the citizens of Michigan voted to repeal the emergency manager law, yet it hasn't gone away.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

I'm still confused how the citizens of Michigan voted to repeal the emergency manager law, yet it hasn't gone away.

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Because the legislature passed a replacement bill, and Michigan isn't a state where ballot initiatives can't be overturned by legislative action.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

I'm still confused how the citizens of Michigan voted to repeal the emergency manager law, yet it hasn't gone away.

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We repealed Public Act 4. Public Act 72, which was enacted in 1990 and allows for emergency financial managers, is still in effect.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

I got an idea. Take away 6 million of his tax subsidies and give it to Belle Isle. Problem solved.

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Ummm... All $6 million would do is leave the status quo dump that the island has turned into... your idea is not ideal...

As for Gilbert... he is not concerned about showing his anger and frustration... just look at his controversial remarks regarding LeBron James scampering out of Cleveland...

Rather than focusing on Gilberts comments, the real problem is the Clownsil and the perpetual naysayers that have nothing better to do than go into their public meetings and comment on "people who don't look like us".... but your idea is to focus on Gilbert's comments.

Surely you can tell where the real idiotic comments come from here? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Shollin

I got an idea. Take away 6 million of his tax subsidies and give it to Belle Isle. Problem solved.

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sure, because pulling 6 million from him won't affect ANY of his investments in the city at all, anywhere, just pull the money from him, he's rich, he will absorb it... no way would he pull out of investing in Detroit or scale back any current developments... would never happen....

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Originally Posted by Goose

sure, because pulling 6 million from him won't affect ANY of his investments in the city at all, anywhere, just pull the money from him, he's rich, he will absorb it... no way would he pull out of investing in Detroit or scale back any current developments... would never happen....

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It's kind of ironic all the bitching about the suburbs getting subsidies and the mere mention of taking away 6 million in subsidies from a billionaire is met with such angst. My guess is if Gilbert decided to invest in Livonia people wouldn't be so willing to give him these subsidies and praise.

I would say to Dan Gilbert.

"It's plantation politics, race cards and monetary issues within the Detroit City Government that prevented the Lansing's lease on Belle Isle. Their mindset is focused on ' I can take of Detroit by ourselves, We don't need Lansing to help us, just bail us out.' This whole political debauchery within Detroit City leaders is that they can't get out its mixture of Coleman A. Young kleptocracy and their personal dark ages."

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Originally Posted by Shollin

It's kind of ironic all the bitching about the suburbs getting subsidies and the mere mention of taking away 6 million in subsidies from a billionaire is met with such angst. My guess is if Gilbert decided to invest in Livonia people wouldn't be so willing to give him these subsidies and praise.

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Of course not. A healthy region needs a healthy urban commercial core. It makes sense to want to spur investment in Detroit and not in Livonia. So by allowing him to keep more of his money instead of putting it in city coffers, we are at once enticing him to come and increasing the amount of money he has to invest [[and given his track record, he is investing it in Detroit).

If the city were giving him grants, that's one thing. But allowing him to keep more of his money that we wouldn't be getting anyways if he chose to invest elsewhere doesn't bother me. As long as it remains a net positive for the city and thus the state.

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Originally Posted by Goose

sure, because pulling 6 million from him won't affect ANY of his investments in the city at all, anywhere, just pull the money from him, he's rich, he will absorb it... no way would he pull out of investing in Detroit or scale back any current developments... would never happen....

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Now that's a real clever strategy. Stick it to him. He's got [[our) money. He can't do anything about it now if we take it back. And it will serve as a warning to others who might want to follow his example.

The problem is that City Council hasn't had enough time to go over other options. I mean, they've only just heard about the proposal around last June/July. And it's only come up for a vote a few days ago. Six months isn't nearly enough time to consider other options. Seven months, however is plenty of time, so they delayed the vote.

Also, Belle Isle is a distraction for the city council. After talking about voting on it for a few hours, they simply didn't have the time to actually vote on it, so they voted to vote on it later.

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Originally Posted by JBMcB

The problem is that City Council hasn't had enough time to go over other options. I mean, they've only just heard about the proposal around last June/July. And it's only come up for a vote a few days ago. Six months isn't nearly enough time to consider other options. Seven months, however is plenty of time, so they delayed the vote.

Also, Belle Isle is a distraction for the city council. After talking about voting on it for a few hours, they simply didn't have the time to actually vote on it, so they voted to vote on it later.

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I see what you did there. :)

From these comments its clear Gilbert doesn't know how to handle politics in Detroit. He should stay out of things in the spotlight.

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Originally Posted by 4V4DMD

From these comments its clear Gilbert doesn't know how to handle politics in Detroit. He should stay out of things in the spotlight.

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Sorry but I don't buy that... no one knows how to handle politics in Detroit... because it's a fools game... Gilbert now has the muscle to say what's on his mind... and it's about time someone calls out the ones running the city that are fools... exactly that. Look how well Detroit has done with people shying away from [[God forbid) anyone speaking out. It's time someone told them the truth... politics... meh!! :mad:

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Originally Posted by Shollin

even though the people they represent disagree with the proposal

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I thought 66% of Detroiters polled favored the State taking over Belle Isle maintenance?

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Originally Posted by Shollin

It must be nice to use city council as a scapegoat. From the moment it was announced Belle Isle could be a state park, people have had their torches and pitchforks ready for city council to accept this agreement, no questions asked even though the people they represent disagree with the proposal. It's like Hantz Farms. The moment it was proposed people were clamoring for council to accept. It doesn't matter. If the deal goes south and Hantz is another Moroun, it's council's fault for accepting. If they pass, it's still council's fault.

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I gotta say, I agree with your assessment. And I'd add that I'm really disappointed in some of the "journalists" in this town who've been taking some really low blows at city council, when what city council is doing is what democratically elected representatives are supposed to do, represent the will of the people and drive a hard bargain for them.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I thought 66% of Detroiters polled favored the State taking over Belle Isle maintenance?

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For the love of God could you refrain from citing facts on this forum.

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Originally Posted by ElbertHanks

For the love of God could you refrain from citing facts on this forum.

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I'm sorry, YEAH! STOOPID CLOWNCIL! [[sp?)

The action by City Council signals an inability to get out of there own way, are obstructionists to innovative solutions and blind to the truth.

In the words of a friend of mine re: City Council's stance on the Belle Isle situation:

"Belle Isle: It's a piece of shit, but it's OUR piece of shit."

My stance on the whole thing is this: What's the worst that could happen? The city is clearly in over their head with financial troubles to the point where island maintenance is not necessarily a priority [[understandably so). Try something new!

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Originally Posted by jeduncan

In the words of a friend of mine re: City Council's stance on the Belle Isle situation:

"Belle Isle: It's a piece of shit, but it's OUR piece of shit."

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Is your friend in middle school? This sounds remarkably similar to, "I don't care if I'm ruining my life because it's my life, mom, I'll do whatever I want!"

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Originally Posted by Shollin

I got an idea. Take away 6 million of his tax subsidies and give it to Belle Isle. Problem solved.

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If it's just $6 million, that's a cute little number. I'm not necessarily in favor of public handouts to private individuals. But even if you said $60 million or $160 million I wouldn't be surprised. Even though I tend to take a liberal position on most issues, I believe that money is much safer and more useful in Gilbert hands. Those dollars will be put back into the city. The city government would otherwise squander and waste its own money. Yeah, yeah...don't bite the hand that feeds you....or wait is it the other way around. Oh yes, Gilbert's business and his employees pay taxes, and generate ancillary economic activity downtown.

Still, probably the best thing to not say anything. Spur of the moment comment maybe, but it's now in the news and that should be no surprise.

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Originally Posted by jeduncan

In the words of a friend of mine re: City Council's stance on the Belle Isle situation:

"Belle Isle: It's a piece of shit, but it's OUR piece of shit."

My stance on the whole thing is this: What's the worst that could happen? The city is clearly in over their head with financial troubles to the point where island maintenance is not necessarily a priority [[understandably so). Try something new!

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I don't think Belle Isle Is "a piece of shit" as your learned friend points out. In fact I think it's far from it. I enjoy it's naturalness, it's birds, it's wildlife, and it's vegetation. It is a bit rough around the edges, and definitely needs upkeep. Maybe your friend is used to a different type of lifestyle? Perhaps 4 Bares Waterpark, or one of those other contrived BS theme parks with Home Depot hanging baskets is more to his/hers liking?

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Is your friend in middle school? This sounds remarkably similar to, "I don't care if I'm ruining my life because it's my life, mom, I'll do whatever I want!"

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No, you misunderstood the joke. He was speaking as if he was Council. He, like myself, is not opposed to the state park idea.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I don't think Belle Isle Is "a piece of shit" as your learned friend points out. In fact I think it's far from it. I enjoy it's naturalness, it's birds, it's wildlife, and it's vegetation. It is a bit rough around the edges, and definitely needs upkeep. Maybe your friend is used to a different type of lifestyle? Perhaps 4 Bares Waterpark, or one of those other contrived BS theme parks with Home Depot hanging baskets is more to his/hers liking?

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And to be clear, neither of us think the island is a "piece of shit." I've spent a lot of time on that island, stood up in weddings on that island, and we both have great admiration for the park. The point he was making is the aggressive "we don't need your help, but give us money to help us with it" mentality.

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Originally Posted by wolverine

If it's just $6 million, that's a cute little number. I'm not necessarily in favor of public handouts to private individuals. But even if you said $60 million or $160 million I wouldn't be surprised. Even though I tend to take a liberal position on most issues, I believe that money is much safer and more useful in Gilbert hands. Those dollars will be put back into the city. The city government would otherwise squander and waste its own money. Yeah, yeah...don't bite the hand that feeds you....or wait is it the other way around. Oh yes, Gilbert's business and his employees pay taxes, and generate ancillary economic activity downtown.

Still, probably the best thing to not say anything. Spur of the moment comment maybe, but it's now in the news and that should be no surprise.

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there is a difference between the city handing an investor 6 million vs. eliminating the taxes to reduce the cost by 6 million

do you know which one Gilbert is the beneficiary of?

when the taxes are reduced, a "tax subsidy" as shollin calls it, that money is money that the city never had and might never get, by reducing the taxes it encourages investment, other tax revenue will increase...

the 6 million handout is a different story, im not in favor of that kind of subsidy...

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Originally Posted by jeduncan

And to be clear, neither of us think the island is a "piece of shit." I've spent a lot of time on that island, stood up in weddings on that island, and we both have great admiration for the park. The point he was making is the aggressive "we don't need your help, but give us money to help us with it" mentality.

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With that, I totally agree. I'm glad you love the island, see it for what it is, and enjoy what it has to offer. It ticks me off when people post nonsense about it's condition, or foster plans for it that are obviously designed fit they're own agenda. "Evil" Snyder's DNR @ least has a track record of leaving things in their natural state, for the most part. I don't care for Mr. Kenyatta's ridiculous waterpark idea, nor do I think for a minute that it'll live up to the "pie-in-the-sky" revenue generating theme park outlined in the proposal.

My qualm is that people are firing off saying it's an issue of disrespect that the state wants to come "take" it from the city. I can't quite grasp how anyone could argue that the city has many other options for the island. I can't quite understand how anyone could argue that the city can do a better job than the state. The Berlin Berlin '44 Boat Club kind of directly disputes that point alone.

Whether people care to admit it or not, the city simply doesn't have the resources to maintain that place anymore. I spend a lot of time mountain biking in the state parks around the metro area, and I've seen how good a job the DNR does with the little resources they have. It's a risk for Detroit, sure... but is there really any other option at this point? What's the worst that could happen?

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Originally Posted by jeduncan

I spend a lot of time mountain biking in the state parks around the metro area, and I've seen how good a job the DNR does with the little resources they have.

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That's great, now we're going to start being friends......

What's so frustrating is this was supposed to be a no-brainer. After waiting on the bridge last June over an hour to get on the island, and another hour to get off the island TWO WEEKS AFTER THE GRAND PRIX, because the barriers still had not been removed, was what finally did it for me.

If your restrooms are portajohns in front of actual restrooms that are padlocked, it's so obvious that the basic needs cannot be met.

And remarkably, [[again), it turned into Massa Snyder trying to take over the "portajohn jewel" and remarkably [[again) Council bought into it.

Now we're stuck with closed parks, no streetlights, malfunctioning traffic lights [[the next big problem), in addition to inadequate fire and police.