Protest today in Detroit,MI: Campus Martius Park at 12:03pm
http://fergusonresponse.tumblr.com/p...2-03-pm-campus
Protest today in Detroit,MI: Campus Martius Park at 12:03pm
http://fergusonresponse.tumblr.com/p...2-03-pm-campus
What are people actually protesting at this point? It isn't clear to me.
Assuming the protests are actually focused on police procedures, then why aren't the protestors going to police stations instead of trying to bother people going about their daily lives?
At Noel Night there were people blocking the street demanding free water for Detroiters, but using the "hands up, don't shoot" meme. This kind of unfocused nonsense leads to regular people being turned off, because it just becomes a gathering space for kooks.
I don't get the point of having all the protests downtown. If you want maximum visibility and reach, the protests should be in the 'burbs. Royal Oak or Birmingham on a Friday night. Big Beaver in Troy during rush hour. Woodward in the 'burbs during peak hours. THOSE are areas that would get the majority of the metro area's attention.
Besides some Quicken Loans workers, who's going to care that you're protesting downtown? Most of the people down there are already sympathetic to the protests or don't care. Visibility is poor UNLESS there is a big sports game. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.
NBA & NFL players know but you don't? The President of the United States know but you don't? Seems everyone knows excepts those watching Fox News nonstop, there's the hint.
Actually those are all good ideas nain, I'm not putting them together, just telling you where they are.
Not at Noel Night. People were laughing that the protestors were trying to connect the Detroit water shutoffs with the police incident in Missouri. It becomes a joke if you don't actually have a purpose, and just turn a protest into a laundry list of left-leaning causes.
They should go to police stations if they have a problem with the police. I don't see what Campus Martius, or Woodward in Royal Oak, or Big Beaver in Troy, has to do with supposed concern over police procedures.
Let this 'War on Cops' play out, and hope for black America will again fade. Without justice, there is no peace. Without policing, there is no justice in our city. It may be that these couple of cops are valid examples. Maybe they are racist and should be convicted. I don't see the evidence, but maybe. But what i do know is that we very much need cops who don't just sit in the patrol cars, watch crime, and eat donuts. We want cops who do engage in their communities. Call out bad behavior. Challenge troublemakers. Protect the innocent and the good against the common criminals who assault and steal.
I'm all in favor of holding police to very high standards, and holding those guilty accountable. I'm not in favor of lynch mobs in reverse, demanding the head of a cop because he might be racist and was put at risk for his life and now his career because of the reckless actions of a common criminal.
Love this ignorant response. Obviously anyone who has an opinion differing from a few unemployed anarchists is a Fox news watcher, right? I'm a registered Democrat, and middle-of-the road on most issues [[not that it matters).
The President of the U.S. has been very dignified and clear in his responses. He certainly is not "with the protesters", neither in words nor actions.
The legal process worked, and you don't like the result. Then, if you want change, you need to change the process. You need reforms to police procedures. Tell us what the police officer[[s) should do differently. Tell us what needs to change in the grand jury process. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time.
Chanting "free water" and "black lives matter" while blocking kids from going to the Detroit Science Center isn't going to endear one person to this amorphous "cause", which seems to be "Occupy Wall Street", but in new clothes.
Sorry forgot one; The United Nations understands, but you don't?
RapBrown, think for yourself. You have no clue what you're talking about.
No, the UN has no clue on this issue, as they made quite clear. It was nice of them to take a few minutes off from their anti-Israel agenda to host a few felons from the U.S., apparently to offer their deep insights on the U.S. justice system.
here ya go: Don't give up & never give in. "You just have to besteady." -President Obamahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuQYQCEd5X4 …
The racists will never understand, they'll just complain that your messin with their Hallmark Christmas!
That's my big rub with the Ferguson protests. I understand the choke-hold death outrage. From the details there, it shouldn't have happened.
But in Ferguson, what should have happened differently? I can tell you, Mike Brown shouldn't have robbed that store. Mike Brown shouldn't have assaulted a police officer. Mike Brown shouldn't have grabbed for the cops gun. Mike Brown is responsible for his own death.
I don't understand how anyone can sympathize with Mike Brown. He's what's wrong with society.
LISTEN: If you ever wondered what you would do if you were alive in the CivilRights Movement, NOW IS THE TIME to find out. NOW. RIGHT NOW
March on protestors, take your words of justice to the streets. Block all main roads. Michael Brown and Eric Garner will not die in vain. This civil war will go on until our governments will listen and the police force follow their prime directive protocols. Keep your eyes on the prize.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bham1982
Exactly. They didn't care. Protesting in a half-abandoned/empty city just isn't an effective approach. I remember during Occupy Detroit, people going to an event at the Fox or what have you would take bemused strolls through Grand Circus Park. Just like it was amusing for people walking around the protesters on their way to the DIA on Noel Night.
Block Main Street in RO on Friday night, and you'll make a statement.
How about NOT acting like a criminal, gangbanger, theif, hoodlum, sketchyasf#¢¥, pain-in-the-ass for law enforcement......maybe then you won't be "hassled" !!!!!!!! !!!! !!!!
Actully he said it best almost 50 years ago now; Love Me, I'm a Liberal - Phil Ochs
http://youtu.be/GD5wa7duofo
If you ever wondered what you would do if you were alive in the CivilRights Movement, NOW IS THE TIME to find out. NOW. RIGHT NOW
The protesters have some valid and critical issues, but their failure to understand the appropriate role of force in policing work harms their cause.
If the protesters want to get any real racial reconciliation, they need to show that they are taking responsibility for the Mike Brown's of the world, while expecting the police to be open to about discussing how they defend all of us.
Perhaps Wilson was 100% wrong -- but that doesn't mean every cop nationwide needs to stop engaging with common criminals of both races.
Its hard to be against stopping the shooting of the unarmed. So most blacks say, yeah, we want more from our police, so we're behind you. But what I don't believe black America really wants to wimpy cops who try to avoid conflict with criminals either. That may be what they get.
These are "the good old days" for Activists & America, be effective, budget your time. You can't be everywhere all the time. You Matter!
If you ever wondered what you would do if you were alive in the CivilRights Movement, NOW IS THE TIME to find out. NOW. RIGHT NOW
Incite a riot, check IP addresses
Detroit is in a healing process. I want it to succeed. Did my fair share of civil rights protest/marches etc in the past. Those causes meant something.
Supporting a sleeze bag death by cop does nothing for me,
There are certainly issues worth fighting for but that aint one on my list
This is why these protests gain so little traction amongst the masses. You take something people might agree is wrong, or at least worth looking into more deeply, namely the physical interactions between citizens and the police, especially between police and minorities, and you say something outlandish that no one is arguing, that Garner certainly deserved death for selling single cigarettes.
Do you think people actually think this? Do you think this is what "the other side" is arguing? That people want the punishment for selling single cigarettes to be summary execution on the street by the police? That Brown deserved to die for simply walking in the street, and that grabbing the cop's gun played no part in it and should be ignored? You strike me as the type of person who is totally incapable of seeing any part of an issue except that which they themselves agree with.
He most certainly deserve to die for selling single cigarettes.
But he had the option to comply with the [[unreasonable) law. He choose to physically disagree. He made a bad choice that paved the way to his fate.
Me, I must be a little odd. I like some civil order. I want cops to keep petty criminals in line. I think it makes the world better for all of us.
Your statement is nothing but inflammatory. The cigarettes are not a factor. Many others were selling cigarettes and did not end up dead.
How much of an absolute ASSHOLE does one have to be, ---before a cop shoots you dead -- should be the topic.
There comes a point, a tipping point, a breaking of the camels back, when even the nice cops, the tolerant cops, brandish their weapon and shoot ASSHOLES, tackle ASSHOLES, take them down and arrest them.
No saints, alter boys , or angels lost their life.
STOP protecting the scum of the earth
No one got hurt over "color" , they got hurt for being belligerent ASSHOLES
Mind your manners, use some etiquette, have a clean record, and maybe more folks would truely give a shit. Life is precious, when it is innocent and pure. Career Criminals aren't quite so precious anymore in my eyes...
Nice forum Lowell! Holy Moly, you don't these kind of responses on "Free Republic", I'll let you boys talk about what a great thing the Bush torture era was....LOL!
If you ever wondered what you would do if you were alive in the CivilRights Movement, NOW IS THE TIME to find out. NOW. RIGHT NOW
You are one of the most despicable posters on this site. That's like saying someone deserves to die for speeding. What's the difference, both are breaking the law. I will absolve myself from EVER reading anything you post. People like you are what's wrong with this world.
Yeah, Yeah. You're full of shit. Not sure anyone ever lead a civil rights movement from a coffee house in Royal Oak which is where you reside. A home boy you have never been so stop acting like you have any allegiance or real interest in those who are oppressed. You're so interested in civil rights demonstrations and you sleep your ass comfortably in a mostly white suburb every night.
Go get a job. White Castle is hiring.
I haven't been here in weeks, but for the love of God Lowell how in the world is this Wesley Mouch character allowed to post. What a wasteland of inhumanity!
If you ever wondered what you would do if you were alive in the CivilRights Movement, NOW IS THE TIME to find out. NOW. RIGHT NOW
Got news for ya I was marching there Saturday night and anytime there's a call for justice. I'll just wait and see if there's any moderation on this sight, the dinosaurs are dead your time is up too!
If you ever wondered what you would do if you were alive in the CivilRights Movement, NOW IS THE TIME to find out. NOW. RIGHT NOW
Chris Rock agrees and has some very smart advice: http://youtu.be/QR465HoCWFQ
Please accept my apologies here.... the sentence should have read: "He most certainly DID NOT deserve to die for selling single cigarettes." My entire point was that the cigarettes were irrelevant to his death.
I actually intended to agree with the statement that that did NOT deserve to die. I don't think that in any way whatsoever.
I regret the error, and apologize to all.
From my reading of the posts above, I can see that the concerted effort to smear Michael Brown's life and turn him into a thug succeeded.
1. Maybe he did rob the store, maybe he shoplifted, maybe he did neither.
2. He was not stopped for shoplifting or robbery. He was stopped for walking in the street.
3. Right here, something different could have happened. The officer could have politely asked him to get off the street. That is not what happened.
4. Michael Brown could have meekly gotten off the street. That is not what happened.
5. If witnesses are correct, how Michael Brown entered the police car is not completely clear.
6. Michael Brown had good points that have been completely steamrolled by the police and media efforts to smear him and turn him into a thug. Does anyone remember that he was days from his first day at college when shot? He had plans for a productive future.
7. Michael Brown had no criminal record.
He seems to have been an ordinary kid who made some bad decisions that day, one to mouth off to a police officer with a scary attitude.
Wesley... the moment I read your comment... I thought... uh-oh... he forgot the words "did not"... That was the only way the rest of your comments would have made ANY sense... so must of us knew what you meant....
Post 37 has great advice from Chris Rock
Michael Brown was very successful in living a thug lifestyle. He didn't need anyone's help.
There's no "maybe". We have a robbery and assault on video.
We know this is false. The officer indicated he thought he was the robber, and in fact had just been given Michael Brown's description over the radio.
Irrelevent and absurd. "Michael would have turned his life around that very minute, if just asked 'please'. He only attacked the officer because the officer didn't use the magic word."
True
Sorta true, but all but 2 witnesses essentially corroborate the officers' series of events. No witnesses corroborate the claimed "hands up don't shoot" narrative.
All false. Michael Brown was deified as a "gentle giant" when the media knew about his criminal record. His parents were violent felons and not even raising him, yet also deified as innocent. Hell, they even spoke before the UN, which is something Monty Python or the Onion couldn't have come up with. The "hands up don't shoot" meme continues to this day, even though it has been discarded as fiction.
False. Michael Brown had a sealed juvenile criminal record.
I don't know any "ordinary kids" who have sealed criminal records, who rob and assault, and then who attack police officers. Do you?
Why are practically the only victims of police violence those who are engaging in violence and extensive criminal activity themselves? If there is a strong racial element to police procedures then the disparate impact should be present irrespective of criminal activity.
Again, if the protestors want change, they need to specify what they want changed in the arrest procedures, and in the grand jury procedures. Absent that, it's nonsense, and will be ignored by 90% of Americans. No one would have heard of Ferguson if Michael Brown were Hispanic, Asian or White, you need the "secret formula" of black victim, white officer, and then you get the racial charlatans.
"Hands up don't shoot" when it's a lie, "Black lives matter" when the ones protesting don't care about the hundreds of thousands of black lives lost to violence, only the .005% lost to white police officers, and "water is a human right" when it has nothing to do with Ferguson. That's the message.
Nice apology. I appreciate the forum and live to learn. My opinions are mine. Don't need thugs on the street. The local police put pressure on a local store selling loosies to identify local miscreants robbing homes and I appreciated that. I smoke and roll my own. I do not rob rape nor pillage. Detroit has some of the finest trained national officers.But agree. No one should die for stupid behavior.
We know this is false. The officer indicated he thought he was the robber, and in fact had just been given Michael Brown's description over the radio.
This was the story the police put out, that has since been challenged by the store. Also, the call had not even been dispatched when the Michael Brown was challenged by the officer for walking in the street.
How can Michael Brown be tried and convicted for robbery before he is even charged with a crime, when a crime is not even proven to have happened, and proper investigation has not been done? Remember, this is America, land of the free, where one is innocent until proven guilty.
False. Michael Brown had a sealed juvenile criminal record.
This is debatable. The juvenile authorities refused to confirm or deny the existence of such a record.
I don't know any "ordinary kids" who have sealed criminal records, who rob and assault, and then who attack police officers. Do you?
All we know about the so-called criminal record is that, if there were one, it would be sealed except for major felonies.
We do not know enough about the incident to call it a robbery and assault. The police officer did not know about any reports of robbery when he told Michael Brown to get off the street.
There are so many discrepancies in the narrative, which relies heavily on a strong mistrust of black men that apparently is so pervasive that white people are blind to it and this all seems quite normal and acceptable to them.
I am so sorry for our country.
I do not feel sorry for our country at all. Certain citizens like the race crap but most get past that bull. Harmed by black men at nineteen. Abducted raped robbed. Got past that shit.
I live in a predominate black community, our closest friends are people of color. Do not do the white folk crap
. I agree...
hey Im as liberal as they come but there comes a time for some self evaluation you know. I dont care what color your skin is, if you obey the law in general, your chances of being hassled is greatly reduced, if your out stealing, attacking people and making cops do their job, my attitude is you get what you get no matter who you are. That applies to me and and anyone else. Profiling didnt just come out of the woodwork, there is a problem with crime in certain areas, the statistics overwhelmingly show that. If one cleans up their act, the injustices will decrease. This starts at home for all of us. Try to help those who need it most in life.
Protesters in Detroit are just getting started http://goo.gl/1EtYh8
If you ever wondered what you would do if you were alive in the Civil Rights Movement, NOW IS THE TIME to find out. NOW. RIGHT NOW
Yawn.
This was cool circa November 2014.
Yes. The police should not be judge, jury and executioner. I've never been in trouble with the law but I am not comfortable giving them that power. I'm really amazed at the attitudes some people have on here that these victims somehow deserved it. We are all at risk from out of control police. Did you hear the one about the white guy killed in his own driveway?Quote:
How can Michael Brown be tried and convicted for robbery before he is even charged with a crime, when a crime is not even proven to have happened, and proper investigation has not been done? Remember, this is America, land of the free, where one is innocent until proven guilty.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wiscons...181006091.html
1. It was a typo, I picked that up, so did a few others
2. You're fighting for "civil rights" but then at the same time demanding that the voices of people be silenced because they disagree with you
3. We got the whole "RIGHT NOW" thing, it's not needed on every post
The fact that the police have so little basic medical training is what's most shocking to me. Anyone with basic first aid should know that when someone as large as Garner is yelling he can't breathe while lying face down you roll him on his side immediately. Either they didn't know this or simply didn't care. Then you have a police spokesman the next day stating he could speak so obviously he could breathe. Ridiculous.
Congrats on your tenacity. Good things follow.
Your post reminded me that policy brutality is not a racial issue. Sure, there are racist white cops. But having lived in the city through 100% of CAY's reign, I can tell you that the brutality of the black cops of the 80s was impressive. I saw the faces of black kids being beated by Gang Squad on downtown streets. It wasn't about race. But it was inappropriate.
Read an interesting article on urbanophile on black mayors in America. Reminded me of the argument that the Black Nationalists stole the Civil Rights battle following the killing of MLK. I see parallels with today. Black America has a decision to make. Should today's radicals drive the next phase of the 'conversation of racism', or should leaders like President Obama who represents the success of the 'cooperative' traditional Civil Rights Movement?
I suggest to BA that success is so close. Returning to a 'its the white guys keepinng us down' narrative will harm BA. We are entering a potentially explosive phase of America's post civil rights 'reconciliation'. Will BA say 'thanks for accepting us in so much', or will BA say 'you haven't done shit MFer'.
I hope for the former, and expect the later. And the current protests have told much of white America the latter. And I think that's a mistake for BA.
How about a massive push for each citizen to not commit crime drawing the attention of the police for incarceration
It works equally well for all skin colors
Ethnicities, and people within the country
A woman wearing a short skirt is not an invitation to be raped. Engaging in criminal activity IS an invitation for a cop to detain and/or arrest you. Getting belligerent with said cop is grounds to have said cop physically restrain you. False equivalencies aren't addressing the issue either.
I've ignored nothing. I'm just not trying to wrap it up in a social justice/white cop being racist costume when the issue is more about malpractice and criminal activity. If garner hadn't been a career petty criminal and actively engaged in a criminal activity he wouldn't have had any interaction with the police. Had the police been properly trained in handling a belligerent 400lb man they were taking into custody, he wouldn't be dead.
I wholeheartedly agree that charges should have been brought.. at least manslaughter. But, again, that is a different issue.
Except they aren't. The entire premise behind the protests is essentially a lie, or at the least, a gross exaggeration.
In NYC, last year, there were eight civilians killed by police gunfire. All eight were carrying either guns or knives. Only four of the eight were African American.
In contrast, hundreds of African Americans are killed in every one of our major cities, every year, year after year.
Even if we are to assume that 100% of police killings are unjustified [[an absurd assumption, IMO), it's a fact that police killings amount to almost zero, while tens and tens of thousands of young black males have been killed by other civillians, mostly other young black males.
So, if "black lives matter", then how are we to save black lives? Obviously by reducing black-on-black crime. Police killings, even if we assume 100% to be race-based murders, approach zero.
Except the protesters believe that law enforcement is the enemy, and there is far too much preventive law enforcement in the black community as-is. So what's the solution here? Something isn't adding up.
This isn't to say that there aren't needed police reforms, that there aren't racists in blue, or that law enforcement can't do a better job. But it is true that, when it comes to saving black lives, the issue is clearly black-on-black violence, and not police [[mis)conduct.
I wish I could write this well.
Allow me to add that I don't think that most protesters believe law enforcement is the enemy -- but the those who are pushing the 'war on cops' are winning the PR battle. Profiling? Always bad. Stop & Frisk? Always bad. Arresting citizens for petty crimes [[cigarettes)? Always bad.
I'm suggest buying stock in Dunkin Donuts. Cops will be doing less of what might cost them their live, job, and reputation. Cops will be eating more donuts. The rich will make more money on their donut investments. And the poor will get the joy of common criminals stepping up their game. Life sure isn't fair.
Be careful what you wish for here.
They aren't, except when they did.
Meanwhile, crime rates continue to decrease and police officers are less likely to be injured or killed on the job than construction workers. Believe it or not, there can be more than one issue to address.
I think Wesley Mouch makes a good point, though, regarding who is winning the PR battle. From my standpoint, it's easy to see a problem without buying into the rhetoric from either side.
Okay Noise, have fun with this.
Crank up the Police presence everywhere downtown Detroit and make it a place that folks from the Upper Peninsula would like to visit - is that a better statement for you to twist upon ?
-- vs. What I said in Post #52....
I pretty much have no issue with police in our district. In fact I think they are outstanding. My husband did get a strange moving violation ticket. He sent a gift card to the precinct fom willy hortons for a dozen donuts. I was amused.
Yo! If you did your research, RapBrown claims [[as you do) to be from Detroit [[not this gives us any better bragging rights, and if one wants to make an issue of it, I lived in Detroit for the first thirty years of my life, before default and bankruptcy placed me in Dearborn). If one wants to make it a matter of a "claim" on his part, then folks need to see that the justice system "claimed" to do what was right, but we were not privy to see the processes at work. This is the benefit of the doubt we need to see any of these cases. There was little justice in the trial of "good man" Beckwith after he killed Medgar Evers, and little has changed today. Anytime these incidents [[which I painstakingly threw out a lot of information on) occur, there's always an "investigation", a town hall meeting where folks sound off to a bunch of panel folks zonked out on cough syrup, or there is a promise to change policy and training [[just as we were promised that this Furman-esque chokehold stuff was ended in N.Y.C.)--and nothing ever changes for the better. Anyone with half the capacity for critical thinking can clearly see and compare that. Fact is, every aspect in the Brown shooting from the responding [[other) officer not even taking notes to leaving his body in the streets [[not to mention an almost all white police force, the beating/charged for bleeding on officers of Henry Davis and the ensuing exoneration of Kim Tihen, or the rape of a preganant woman by Jaris Hayden) to the superficial scratches on his face that could've been done by Gene "Popeye Doyle" Hackman, himself was rotten. It seems none of the clunkers I left on the previous thread were addressed [[if anything, it just momentarily quelled the very mosquito-like behavior I blasted away).
I'm disgusted at the very uncivil and troll-like manner of folks on this site. Calling people names, saying they are full of "sh*t" [[as a Christian, I keep my language merely suggestive or PG and I've gotten some harmless ribbing over it), assuming they don't have jobs [[which even the case, does not remove a person's rights to speak up, vote or what have you-would you dare say otherwise to the folks who were involved in the massive newspaper strikes back when, or huge Ford lay-offs in the Bush-era?). Yes, we need a better focus on handling protests which must be direct and effective in civil disobedience without obstructive day-to-day life and pissing people off. No violence, no rioting, no stupid self-aggregating creativity with the sound bytes or effigy-making. just hard, determined [[and loud) diligence and perseverance and the ability to bravely turn the other cheek when the tear gas and truncheons come. Also, I may not like what people do or say or the policies and organizations they support, but I don't judge or write folks off as "scumbags' or "a**holes". That is uncalled for and out of line-so stop it, now! I separate the sinner from the sin, and I may not excuse behavior but I can best explain some of it. When you got cops coming up to a touch-freaky man and swarming him like there a bunch of Snoids [[Crumb reference) it bounds to make someone stiffen. Laying limp and using passive resistance can be written off as "resisting arrest". W M [[and I hope he made a typo there) said, himself, Garner deserved to die for that. How Reconstructionalist Old Testament is that?!
If no one has been paying attention to the facts: our society is becoming more and more nightmarishly Orwellian. Part of it is putting up teams of trolls to spike commentary and discussion sites with disparaging comments [[like Hoover sending folks to boo Chaplin's "Great Dictator" or that one Channel 4 news guy booing Kwame when he praised the Red Wings winning). I was told in the '80s that the reason the Soviets were the "evil empire" is because they spy on their citizens, censor media, make secret arrests [[remember the blue triangles that were all around Wayne State after 9-11-I do!), lock folks away in distant camps, torture folks, experiment on folks, and turn one nation against another. As time went by, I quickly learned we were no better-but were worse, because we lie, lie, lie and put on great efforts of a gilded cage front to placate our citizens to spin them in a state of doubt that "this isn't happening". Thing is: the facts that are now in light, were in light back in the '70s [[we just did a better job of banding together and limiting it's seeping, creeping influence), and when this gets recycled, we act like "thas' news to me." I speak not out of cynicism but a healthy sense of skepticism that looks at the facts throughout all times and places-forest and trees and bark [[and the devil in the details). Racism favors white and suburbs and most cops are thugs that need to be kept in check [[yet, it was Crumb who pointed out the funny irony of how you want more of them when you need them), and the U.N. is not in a conspiracy, and far too much is made to bash Muslims [[but oddly enough, not step in when Buddhists attack them in Myanmar), and blindly defend a political [[not spiritual) dominionist-minded Israel. In face, it was who suggested violent reprisal against the general arab community over the "beheadings" on another site. I know I will be ignored for this, but folks need to be civil, or I pray Lowell steps in and quells this disrepectfulness.
Ever see Chris Rock's first performances on HBO in the '80s? Looked like he was in New Edition going on about how "prisoner's got it easy". He had something blasting Color eye contacts, Arizona [[McCain) for not respecting M.L.K. day on SNL, and his thought son "bullet-control" are funny, but "Dogma"...[[yeah, "Jesus born again through a woman", someone doesn't know Eschatology 101, Mr. Comic Book man Kevin Smith. There's enough apocryphal nonsense in Hollywood, and Frida Kahlo and Professor Snape should've known better before taking on that script. But I digress....)
It's impossible to see anything clearly in that video. The call was dispatched as a person with a gun, and he happened to have one [[fake but deliberately made to look real). It's tragic that this situation ended with loss of life. Might have turned out different if the cops knew for sure the gun was fake.
On this one I wonder if the cops needed to drive to such a close proximity. I think that really elevated the danger. If they would have stayed back and issued verbal commands from a safer distance, would they have needed to shoot him right away?
I understand the cops point of view, they saw a gun, he reached for it, they shot him. But I do think it may have been possible to have a different outcome.
The Micheal "I take what I want" Brown case is completely different.
Also, helps to know if he's a deaf man holding a rake. A guy in a wheelchair in Lafeyette, In. A woman walking the freeway in LA. A guy handcuffed behind his back in a squad car who manages to shoot himself in the head. Not all cops are bad, but I clearly see a large hypocrisy in a country that defends capitol punishment [[most of which cruelly botched) as a deterrent and a strong example for killers, but cops who kill [[or even community patrol guys with anger issues who kill) needlessly seem to get off with [[a lot of help from such fraternal organizations as the the F.O.P.) no example to set for the other police to be more level-headed and unbiased.
Everyone here knows exactly what happened, and precisely what the cop should have done. Should he have held his fire? Would the child have killed another child? Or the cop? Or would more time have shown that it was fake?
If only DY's own team of mind-reading, perfect-in-every-action gang were there instead of this racist rogue cop, this would have turned out rainbows and lollipops.
I'll bet when fired, the gun popped out a 'bang' flag that slowly unfurled?
Royal Oak and Birmingham would bring reinforcements and equipment they normally bring out for the Dream Cruise and it would be over before it started. They wouldn't block Woodward or Big Beaver for the protesters to cross either.
The Campus Martius protest was the only thing the media reported about Noel Night. The event was actually fun and not "marred" by the protesters at all.
That's great news, good for the protesters. I'm all for getting out on the street and letting your voice be heard, but don't bother others doing their thing. The A-holes in Seattle were screaming at little kids trying to sing Christmas carols. That crosses the line from being concerned protesters to being self-centered whiny brats.
That sounds more like the act of agents provocateurs than conscientious protesters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gpwrangler
The cops never willingly block off the freeways, either. But I don't see how cops could stop you from blocking off small roads like Main Street and Old Woodward, at least not without making a HUGE scene.
Metro Detroit was purposefully set up to trap everything that's supposedly "undesirable" in Detroit. That way people can protest in downtown Detroit while almost everyone with money smirks from the suburbs. Protesting in Detroit is just playing into the hands of people like L. Brooks Patterson. They want you to do that stuff downtown. I guarantee you that 99.99% of the people in OC didn't give the mighty downtown protests two seconds of thought.
...and if he's not at the very least charged with some form of negligent homicide, then by all means burn down Cleveland. I just don't understand what any of this is supposed to accomplish here. Is DPD killing 12 yr olds or loosie sellers or convenience store shoplifters?
I understand many people view it that way, what I don't understand is why...well, I do understand "why", what I mean is once the numbers are actually put in context, it seems to be rather odd thing to get this incensed about. And again, what are they protesting here? mistreatment by which Police Department exactly and what change are they demanded from what department? What systemic abuses have the protesters encountered here?
"Every child" paints a toy gun to look exactly like a real gun, then aims that gun at innocents at a community center, then, when the police arrive, refuses police commands and aims the gun at the police?
And here we have yet another example of someone who happens to be black doing something illegal and foolish, refusing police commands, threatening police and the public, and then there is shock at the inevitable result.
Next I'm sure it will be "the cops should have shot the gun out of his hands, like I saw in that movie last week"...
Are you getting your information from the 911 caller who said it was probably just a kid? Or are you just making things up?
I know I aimed toy guns [[pre-orange tips) at "innocent" [[really?) kids who were playing with me. Is that illegal, as well? Which law are you citing?
Everything I just mentioned is straight from the news articles. Do you have some inside information that is different?
That has nothing to do with the situation. The kid was aiming a gun, as far as the police, community, and witnesses knew. No one knew it was a fake gun until the kid was dead.
If you, as a child did the same, you would almost certainly be dead. This is again the conflating of issues. Everyone knows that East Cleveland [[the worst part of Cleveland, and almost entirely black) has crazy gun violence, now they are shocked that police assumed that a kid pointing a gun to panicked onlookers in the middle of violence-infested East Cleveland was a potential threat.
Again, as with the other cases, if you primary aim is saving the lives of young black males, the issue is reducing the violence in the African American community. Then maybe the community center wouldn't be panicking, the cops wouldn't be scared, the 911 call wouldn't made, and the kid wouldn't be dead. But it's not reasonable to say the cops should just stand there and wait to be shot at just in case the gun wasn't real.
The police officer in question was fired from his previous department for being a fuck up. The dispatcher didn't relate to him any of the commentary from the call. So you have two things setting up to be a problem. Color me surprised he fucked up and shot a kid. I don't think its racist thing, I think he's just terrible at his job and when you're terrible at job as important as this, it usually means someone is going to die or get hurt.
Interestingly enough, my "inside information" comes from news articles that say none of what you posted. Maybe check your sources.
A kid playing has everything to do with the situation. That was the situation. A kid was playing, as many kids do, and was killed for it. There's no "almost certainly" about it. That's completely false.Quote:
That has nothing to do with the situation. The kid was aiming a gun, as far as the police, community, and witnesses knew. No one knew it was a fake gun until the kid was dead.
If you, as a child did the same, you would almost certainly be dead. This is again the conflating of issues. Everyone knows that East Cleveland [[the worst part of Cleveland, and almost entirely black) has crazy gun violence, now they are shocked that police assumed that a kid pointing a gun to panicked onlookers in the middle of violence-infested East Cleveland was a potential threat.
Again, as with the other cases, if you primary aim is saving the lives of young black males, the issue is reducing the violence in the African American community. Then maybe the community center wouldn't be panicking, the cops wouldn't be scared, the 911 call wouldn't made, and the kid wouldn't be dead. But it's not reasonable to say the cops should just stand there and wait to be shot at just in case the gun wasn't real.
They most certainly did block 94 and 75 or the protesters would have been run over, and probably some killed. You don't have the right of way walking on a highway so drivers would not be charged. If you don't think they can stop you from stopping traffic on the roads you mentioned, watch the end of the dream cruise. Not to mention if you make a couple hundred commuters who need their jobs late for work. Bad decision.
Well, yeah, the cops were basically forced to block the freeway to prevent the loss of life. It wasn't done as a polite gesture to protesters. That was my point.
I don't think your Dream Cruise example holds much weight. Sure, it's easy to clear the streets when people aren't trying to protest and just want to avoid a ticket. But yes, those magical suburban police can do anything.
Oh, and believe me [[and if not, read your history) they do exist-maybe since before the Maccabeans. Early Christianity, Revolutionary times [[American, French, or otherwise), Union scuffles, Civil Rights movements, any activist movement since. That is why I stayed away from activism in the '90s. A lot of the wrong folks with egotistical, sloganeering, pointless effigyism [[remember the naked activists laying down in coffins in front of a Royal Oak fur-dealer?-yeah, no one is going to look past that to whatever ideology you espouse), and violent tendencies were in the forefront. They spoke the best and the loudest, and they seemed like the real and only deal [[I still recall one-who still has a current prominent weblog-ranting on a porch of a coffeehouse in Wayne State going on about Bobby Sands this and Bobby Sands that, and with all of the girls fawning at his feet. When I inquired-without a lick of contention in my voice-as to who Bobby Sands was, I got my head bit off, and the girls giving me dirty looks at my "pig-ignorance". Always a "shame on me" because I never joined DeMolay or something.).
Fact is, they aren't the real and only deal. They're there to deliberately misrepresent a cause and paint it out to be an unattractive, 2-dimensional thing. That is why only bad representations of Christianity [[like the recent brash of reality-show Amish-bashing) or the homeless [[as I stated before on other threads, most homeless are unseen, trying to stay afloat, not aggressively panhandling) hold prominence in our Western culture.
I recall how Anti-racist activists were so jolly after disrupting a Klan meeting in Ann Arbor. An activist pamphlet was handed to me with the [[almost staged) image of a huge Rastafarian kicking a scrawny skinhead on the ground [[and I say to myself "ooo boy, this ain't going to play out well"). Sure enough, I come home and the front page photo on the Detroit News was the same one with the title to the tune of "Violent Protestors Attack Peaceful Gathering".
I was so disturbed when the most prominent activists that belonged to a certain peace-oriented group [[I belonged to for over ten years) in Boston railed on acting in a violent manner during the Occupy movement [[I still recall a Michigan man calmly debating in the kitchen with two of the ranters-he obviously felt the way we in Michigan have always felt from repeated experience; we had heard enough of the violence in the Mid-west, and we were sick of it.). When I traveled to Cincinnati, Providence, Champaign, and re-established myself more in Madison, each chapter I visited were horrified at what I told them. Nothing of the sort was going on with the activities of our movement during the Occupy.
Beware of the Celebrities [[especially the ones who came out of the '60s undamaged or alive) in these efforts. They may be doing Bike activism or anti-corporate marches [[Philip Morris's "Truth"-oh Lord, I can't believe that tripe has resurfaced.). Yet, they are not on the level.
Wow that agent provocateur group is really sophisticated. Turns out they were actually running the protests, as one of the protest organizers specifically said their goal was to bother people at the tree lighting ceremony.
http://www.seattlepi.com/local/komo/...rs-5922596.php
What do you feed a HORSE on life support with a feeding tube , an iron lung, and a CPR paddle taped to his chest while beating it unconcious every night .....?
HORSE-as in the basketball game?
As in whipping a dead horse repeatedly in hopes it will continue to gallop another day
Criminals are criminals and remain criminals even when they are shot by a cop. Police might do well to shoot more often, then criminals may actually fear the police.
This is the actual "toy" he was carrying.
http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/2e10...gun-EDITED.jpg
Call it a toy all you want. If it was pointed at YOU, you'd piss your pants thinking it was the real deal. Anyone would.