New installation of kitchen and food market: Shed 4
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New installation of kitchen and food market: Shed 4
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They're trying to model Eastern Market after the long departed festival market place - Trappers Alley. I'd have been happy if they'd just cleaned the market up and given services and incentives to businesses and building owners to convert to lofts and apartments instead of making another Trappers Alley, Paradise Valley, Washington Boulevard, etc, out of the place.
not to happy about this - if i wanted to shop someplace that looked like a supermarket - i would. I love the market just the way it is - leave well enuf alone.
I love it...reminds me of the great markets in Boston and Philly! It will be cool to be able to buy sandwiches and so forth from the place.
Stromberg2
+1 . This looks great. Had no idea they were going that far with the renovations.Quote:
Originally Posted by stromberg2
Then why don't you take a ride out to a Hiller's or Whole Foods in West Bloomfield or Ann Arbor? City Hall ruined Trappers Alley by attempting to make it an 'upscale' festival market place. Now they're meddling with Eastern Market. Not only will it not become 'Yuppieized' [[those people don't like and won't patronize Detroit on a regular basis), they'll upscale beyond the multitudes of ethnic and working class people who can afford to shop there.Quote:
Originally Posted by stromberg2
From Model D article.Quote:
Plans for the grant, payable over two years, will allow Eastern Market to develop the community kitchen as an hub for food entrepreneurs, in a city where access to commercial kitchen space can be difficult to find. They also hope to increase access to locally grown and processed healthy foods.
"It's going to serve as an incubator for people, especially Detroiters, who want to start their own niche food processing business. It's a good way to not only support the local food system, but to create jobs," says the Erb Foundation's Jodee Fishman Raines.
It's also a way to make better use of produce and other perishables that can go to waste -- fruit that can't be sold can still be pickled or jarred, for example. There will be food demonstrations and workshops encouraging healthy eating, plus the community kitchen can be rented out by groups.
I wasn't aware that Hillers or Whole Foods operated those types of services.
It'll be "hipsterized" before it becomes "Yuppieized" and hipsters do patronize Detroit on a regular basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive
Those parts may be for the good. I don't believe the commercial markets offer those services. Why not just build those apart from tearing down or rebuilding parts of Eastern Market that are viable now? You also have commercial foodservice programs at existing schools. Why not utilize those instead of displacing them and putting them at EM?Quote:
Originally Posted by rsa.313
For most part, my experience with 'Hipsters' is they don't have a lot of money either. Will they be displaced?Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMe
Pardon the pun, but isn't that an organic, non profit group?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive
Sorry, I didn't get the pun. ZZzzzzzzz, right over my head. Help me out.
City Hall does not operate Eastern Market. EM is operated by the Eastern Market Corporation.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive
http://www.detroiteasternmarket.com/page.php?p=1&s=8
ahhh the all too familiar battle cry of Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by beanietek
Looks like Ikea to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by beanietek
I've been to Reading Market in Philly. It is a different place in that it is in the Central Business District's Chinatown area. This allows it to function at peak capacity 7 day a week. It does not have the warehouse and slaughtering that happens at Eastern Market. It is also not ringed by lots of great specialty stores like Rocky's or Hirt's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcm
This is what I meant, KielsonDrive. The non-profit operates EM. It didn't go over your head, it was just:
a. Not properly stated to be a pun.
b. Not funny.
Like there's much difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pcm
And just as valid of an opinion in many cases as the opposite. Leave it alone. Wreck it. Change it. Tear it down. Rebuild it. You have your opinion and I have mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by hamtown mike
Philly has Italian Market, which is sort of like Eastern Market with lots of produce vendors and specialty shops. Most cities have a farmers market or large produce market. But yeah, EM is unique and the shed 4 project just enhances it because there will be so many offerings in one district. Hopefully the public market will start opening more days and new shops and housing open around the district.
Looks very nice
They may not have a lot of money but they'll still spend it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive
What is wrong with you guys? This looks like a beautiful project. It will provide all Detroiters with a lot of great new opportunities for learning & shopping. EM is one of our core areas and it deserves the renovations and investment that it is seeing. Just because it is coming from the top down does not mean that it is bad. Do you really think these improvements will turn away regular Detroiters? It's not like they're going to start charging an entrance fee. I think these additions and improvements will help attract even more people.
How exactly would you like to see EM improved? Leave all the dumpy sheds untouched and under-utilized? The current indoor & outdoor shed restorations have been a tremendous improvement over what was there before, and they have not changed the character or genuineness of the district in the least. In fact, they've added to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanietek
Did you read the model d article? The pictures make it look like a whole foods but the idea behind it is to create jobs in the food industry by allowing people to perform commercial type food preparations. If you like the outdoor, feeling visit the other 4 sheds in the market. Plus I think this is helping the market to have more slection during the cold months where it does in fact suck to shop outside.
And about the yuppies. Have you seen the clientele at the market lately? That's what makes the market survive! There are enough people to buy the peppers 5 for $2 but you need the people to buy the $10 pickels and the organic granola too, ya know?
I certainly hope you are correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintMe
You guys [[girls) are all correct that EM needs the improvements. I don't dislike the idea of improving the place, after all EM is one of my very favorite things about Detroit. Even in it's worst shabby state it is a must visit - a gem. When living in other states, I always made it home to EM, summer and winter. My concern is that city hall will screw this one up like so many others in the past - build a monument and then ignore and neglect it: no security, no trash pick-up. excessive and unfair parking enforcement, etc. Detroit has a history of ruining the true, genuine things about the city and letting others crumble: Washington Blvd tinker toys, Harmonie Park, Hart Plaza and so on. I'd like to see this development stand separate from the original EM, thereby maintaining it's unique nature. Fix up the sheds and build another EM next to.
I think Detroit should use some of the renovation costs for helping remove peoples' heads from the sand. They've been down there since 1966!
1KielsonDrive, just because you keep on saying it's run by city hall doesn't make it true, it's flat out not run by the city of detroit.
Gsgeorge... what made Eastern Market a unique experience is it has an "old world" feel to it... Those designs just make it look too "Ikea" like as one poster so well phrased it. Eastern Market is very old...and historic... Shed 4 on the outside shows some warmth with brickwork... but on the inside it has an unfortunate resemblence to an airport terminal with a giant salad bar.... :eek:
IMO it's a tasteful addition, and I'm squinting really hard but I just don't think it looks anything like this
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kw...c6sbo1_400.jpg
or this.
http://www.foxnews.com/images/522066/1_61_w320.jpg
It would be more of a sucess if it opens Mon thru Sun and closes at 7pm insteadof 5pm such as the Gratiot Market does. Workers who commute by route of Gratiot could stop by the market to buy fresh groceries on their way home. Have extra security to curtail the pandhandlers. Is this the same concept that Compuware will use on the former Hudson's site with the roof would be of glass instead of metal?
I doubt they'd see much of an increase in people. Maybe a little, but I doubt it would be enough to be worth the extra time the sellers would have to be there. I was talking to a woman who is connected to the group that runs EM and she said there was talk of also having it opened on Wed. The majority of people aren't going to go to EM more than once a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
IMO there's not much better than a Sat morning at EM. I can't remember the last Saturday morning I didn't spend down there. Good food and nice people, that's a good mix.
And just because you say it isn't doesn't make it true. Regardless of legalities and quasi-public-private corporations, non-profit or otherwise, doesn't mean the city doesn't have major say and influence in Eastern Market and it's day to day operations and maintenance. Where is Eastern Market located?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
There are two critical issues facing the Eastern Market ... one is transportation and parking ... the other is “critical mass” as a destination worth driving or travelling for.
CRITICAL MASS
Some anchor businesses closing too early are part of that “critical mass” issue.
J.R. Hirt closes at 3pm weekdays and 4pm Saturday ... Rocky Peanut closes at 4pm ... ... Eastern market Antiques closes at 2:30 on weekdays [[5pm on Saturdays) ... the sun is out much later than that in the summer and these businesses are serious attractions which go a long way toward getting people to commit to the EM as a destination.
If you read the EM website, in the business directory, 44 of the 91 businesses are not retail oriented. Of the remaining 47, 22 are non-restaurant businesses some of which, like Cheap Charlies are unsettling to get to for some patrons who perceive stores not in the immediate shed area or over the freeway that are not inside of Gratiot Market proper, to be “out of their comfort zone”. This goes for the restaurants too. Many would not be willing to walk to Joey’s or to A Taste of Ethiopia ... or even to up to Milano! Slander these skittish people as you may ... if they don’t feel safe wandering around Gratiot or even on the fringes of the shed area ... they just don’t feel safe ... and they will not come spend their money.
Other places listed in that online business directory I’m not certain about either ... does “The Pottery Guy” have an actual storefront? ... Russell Street Arts and Antiques’ phone number is disconnected. ... Even Bert’s website is non-existent as of right now [[bertsentertainment.com) .
If you whittle the list down to the businesses that people really find unique and suitable enough to travel for, you have a much, much shorter list. Bottom line ... EM does NOT possess the critical mass to make it a destination and the proof is in the lack of results in attracting more patrons.
One solution would be to get more businesses to open which *do* add to that attractiveness. This however is something that is not immediately actionable.
One thing that could be done immediately to improve Eastern Market's attractiveness as a destination is to make the districts businesses appear part of the same experience by changing the environment of the district to be a safe, attractive, pedestrian friendly area. This maximizes the impact of businesses already present, providing the most cost effective way to improve the district.
That is where the money should be spent. Not on the sheds or on a prepared foods concession that will merely compete with the other restaurants trying to scratch out a living there.
Tying in all the businesses in the EM/Gratiot Market area by creating a *much* more inviting and compelling pedestrian area would make a huge difference. This requires the establishment of an engineered plan which directs and pulls foot traffic past storefronts; and is something that has quite conspicuously not been done, to date. This is a coordinated plan which ties together existing businesses and makes the overall "mall" attractive to new businesses.
Some problems this would have to address are cosmetic work ... blight removal ... making sure the public restrooms are open, clean, safe, and updated ... and the management of street folk, pan-handlers and “unofficial” venders, particularly those on the bridge to Gratiot Market.
Right now, street to street, and alley to alley, the Eastern Market is *not* what a lot of people would consider a customer friendly environment.
Such a plan draws the visitor through the district by virtue of it's landscaping and placement of signage and views and includes pedestrian amenities such as benches, identifiable walkways, green areas of grass, trees and plantings, area termination, and signage improvement for businesses and pedestrian help ... and I would suggest - an outdoor entertainment venue where performances could be held and that could be leased for certain types of events.
The way the district is set up, managed and maintained right now, there is a lot of synergy that is being missed. Businesses are mostly left to drawing customers individually ... rather than capitalizing on the district itself as one, homogeneous destination.
I must say, I don't think any of this is likely to happen. Those who have already established their intentions with the sheds and new concession etc are intent and invested in what their plans are ... unfortunately this does not include either the transportation issue nor the issue of a lack of critical mass based on existing businesses.
TRANSPORTATION
Another thing that would significantly help Eastern Market's business is access by *regional* public transportation. Any combination of the People Mover, DDOT and any other streetcar service [[etc) that might eventually be established , would be significant.
A couple years ago I was at a friends home and we decided we wanted to get from his house in the Trenton area to EM to go to the Butcher’s, using the bus system. I spent over two hours online and on the phone with the DDOT customer service, as well as using streetmaps we had in our possession ... and finally came to the conclusion that, in between the uncertainty of whether we could be assured of busses going to where it was suggested they would ... the uncertain walks in between bus stops and the market itself ... the fact that after 6pm the DDOT “help” line closes ... we gave up the idea and just went to a bar nearby. The closest we could get was the other side of I-75. That was a non-starter.
Travel by car is expensive when you are travelling even moderate distances ... furthermore, enjoying a beer and then driving has its hazards as well. The lack of availability to us of any bus service to the market itself was both a surprise and very disappointing.
I dread walking over the bridge to Gratiot and never do it. The junk, the smell of second-hand stuff stored in smoky incensed filled rooms during the week, the crowding in of those stalls like they own a public pedestrian walkway - count me as a weekly Market customer who just won't walk over there.
Disagree. You're taking the comments literally and attempting to find photos literally exactly alike. Won't work. Our points are still valid even if they didn't copy an Ikea or a Whole Foods. Gistok's point about 'Old World' feel is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsgeorge
I really think your city of detroit comments are quite baseless. I don't see them getting involved at all. Witout city involvement an organization has come in and already provides security, already provides garbage pickup and has not tampered with the parking in the area. [[That's the one thing they could work on actually, like getting rid of that garage or rehabing it.)Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive
I don't think this will take away much from the market. Plus regarding taking away from other restaurants: Each restaurant is such a niche product it would be tough to compete directly with the restaurants that are currently there.
I think this will strengthen the market. While this rehab may be taking away from some open market space I don't think we will be missing a fruit resell booth that is selling raspberries like 12 other booths in the three previous sheds. However, I will take into consideration that maybe one of the abandoned warehouses around there could have been used but I am sure the costs etc. to purchase/rehab a building compared to 'fixing up' one of their own settled that deal pretty quickly.
I bought a Muddy Waters CD from one of those guys today, I'm listening to it right now. I'm not a fan of the smell, but it's not that bad. Does anyone know if the people on the bridge have a legal right to be there or are the authorities just looking the other way?Quote:
Originally Posted by SWMAP
I'm no developer, but I would have guessed that the developement displayed in the photos would cost more than $200,000. I'm wondering if additional money needs to be tossed in.
I remember when the Casinos were proposed and later built, with the promise in Greektown being,
"we will not have a restaurant inside" Then they were approved to build, and immediately proceeded
to build a series of restaurants inside. Eventually, most, if not all, the original Mom/Pop establishments
couldn't compete, and closed their doors. All the local parking, as well as the Greek restaurant patrons
were gone, along with all the promises.
What will happen to all the small, charming local 'Kitchens' where they already prepare foods.
Russell Street Deli, Zeff's Coney Island, Farmers Restaurant... just to name a few.
Oh at first it will seem great, but then the next thing you know, the charm that is Eastern Market,
will have just...gone away. The whole reason people come in the first place is because of how
it is right now. Sure, different people will come to the 'new' Eastern Market, but then we will have lost the old one in the bargain. ME...I'd rather it remains true to itself. Let these investors leave the
restoration of the sheds to be their contribution. If they want to build something, how about a
'Parking Structure'. It's really hard to find a [[legal) spot to park.
One of my all time favorite markets was that one in Oxford England on the High Street [[Main Street)...
It was a jumble of shops, with the smells and aromas of a marketplace... items disheveled, cluttered and slightly out of place....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...ket_Inside.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...rket_Fruit.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...arket_Fish.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Co...et_Butcher.JPG
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Be...red_Market.JPG
If Eastern Market makes itself over to be like a Nino Salvaggio's on Hall Rd., or like the deli-produce-bakery sections of a Super Kroger.... then many of the things that make the Eastern Market experience unique... will be lost.
I'm not saying that Shed 4 will be a failure to attract folks down there... but for heavens sake give it some personality... and not give it a cold high tech streamlined anywhere in suburbia look... :[[
Maybe they need to bring Alex Pollock [[if he's still alive) back out of retirement and let him have a go at Eastern Market improvements...
I come to realize that detroiters hate change...
I'm still not seeing how this proposal resembles anything even close to what you will find in the suburbs. Give me a real, solid example of this kind of market in Royal Oak, Birmingham, etc... You won't find it. Don't say Whole Foods or Ikea because that's just a baseless comparison. An urban historic market vs. a giant box in a sea of asphalt in the suburbs? Nothing in this rendering indicates that at all.
Not to mention it is a rendering and will probably hardly resemble the final design in terms of texture, lighting, mood, etc. the kind of things that make you "like" or "dislike" this kind of market, and it certainly doesn't show the kind of texture that it will probably have when filled with people and food items. Gistok, you talk about your love of the textured and "disheveled" look of the market in Oxford. What's to say that this building won't have the same texture? I think EM has a lot of texture as it is right now, certainly a lot more than the one in Oxford, and I think some of those shots you shared look more like a fakey kind of Whole Foods, with its silly little fake storefronts, than what this proposal is putting forward. I much prefer the large, open space that this design is showing us.
Nothing in Michigan resembles this. This is unique to Michigan and will be an awesome success no matter what the Walmart loving opponents say on this forum. The group that now runs Eastern Market knows what they are doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gsgeorge
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by gthomas
Who's surprised by any of this? The renovations were announced a long time ago and they had always planned to do all the sheds. Does removing the chicken mural and leaving the exposed brick not fit into the "old world" feel?
Haha, yeah I almost forgot about those damn chickens.... C'mon people, this HAS to be better than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by j to the jeremy
Can't wait for the improvements at EM to continue... This will really enhance the district.
Wow, I almost missed this....Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyFreddy
So wait... Detroiters have been complaining for decades about our cavalier attitude towards destroying historic buildings in favor of parking garages and lots... and you say you'd rather have our historic buildings sit unrenovated, untouched, to preserve the 'old world feel' of tacky chicken & cow murals, and instead use the money to build... ANOTHER PARKING GARAGE???! This is in a city with three times more parking spaces than residents.
That takes the cake there.
I disagree. For one, the old sheds were not bad looking, in fact, they were beautiful. But they were rotting and falling apart, hence the replacement. And yesQuote:
Originally Posted by Gsgeorge
they are very nice, although I do miss the food kiosk, with the bench seating
surrounding it. It's nice to have somewhere for the older folk to sit a spell, so they can then continue shopping, instead of just leaving...agreed?
In the summertime, when things are hopping, those sheds, old or new, are NOT
underutilized. At other times, the market is CLOSED. Now, if they decide to extend
the hours of operation past the traditional 4:00am-3:00pm, set by the hours kept
by the previously mentioned slaughter houses and produce exchanges.....
then maybe something drastically different would have to be achieved.
But then that wouldn't be the Eastern Market anymore.
That would be more like a supermarket, from what I deducted from the proposed pics. posted.
I vote...No supermarket in this area. Move it down the street.
This town is plenty big enough, and empty enough, for this idea to flourish elsewhere. IMHO.
One of the regular complaints that I hear about EM from new & old residents all the time is that it's NOT open every day, like any other market. "Gosh, if only Eastern Market was happening today... then I wouldn't have to drive to Dearborn to do my shopping."
Sure, all the sheds are hopping on summer Saturdays... but is there a community kitchen? A place to educate people about local food? Not that I know of. Why are these bad things?
My experience has been that EM is pretty dead if it's not a weekend. So anything to bring more activity around there week-round, and year-round, is, to me, a good thing for the surrounding businesses.
Look, they're not kicking out Russell Street Deli & Zefs & Supinos and putting a casino there. They're improving the sheds, making them more accessible, more open... more activity, more people on the street, increased spending in the area, increased business... seems like a good idea to me.
The Shed 3 renovation has not just allowed the market to stay active through the winter, but it has brought new events & parties to the space. Eastern Market is more than food now, it's a cultural district that people are desiring to visit & live in. This will only make it more desirable.
You know, Detroiters are so scared of change, and for good reason. We've seen a lot of bad projects come through here in the past.
But I say this is the good kind of change, not an in-your-face kind of change. This is an enhancement, not a wholesale replacement of an entire district. EM will always be EM... This is just a way to bring more people down here and provide some much-needed services to Detroiters, whose food options are admittedly pretty scarce.
Why build this thing in the middle of the prairie when you already have a thriving food district at your disposal to put it in?
Also, why is anyone even remotely taken by these plans? Back when they did the first Shed restorations, they announced they would be rebuilding some of the sheds & completing renovations on all existing structures.
What exactly is a community kitchen?
I think that more people would stop by the EM if the new part would open every day and until 7pm. The workers would not mind or hire more people to work those hours. Gratiot Central Market closes at 5pm not giving a chance for people to stop by being that most people get off work at 5pm. Come on Detroiters; let us not say that something will not work until it is tried. A something will not work attitude is the reason why downtown detroit is so barren on saturdays and sundays except for the restaurant. The reason why Detroit doesn't move forwardQuote:
Originally Posted by rjk
Next time you go to GCM ask them why they close at 5PM. If you mention to one of the owners that he/she's missing out on the people getting off work at 5PM I don't think he/she's going to say that they never thought of that. Usually businesses are pretty good at reading their crowd and knowing what their hours should be. I'm sure the people at GCM aren't closing at 5PM so they can get home and watch the 6:00 news.Quote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
What an excellent development, and great for the city. The improvements just keep coming.
Oh the stupid arguing in this thread. Google some other city markets in other cities. The Milwaukee And Portland Maine Public market has the same vibe as the renderings show and they are absolutely successful and brought more people in.
I don't think that anyone is arguing that it won't be successful, only that they don't like the change. I googled the Milwaukee public market and it looks nice, but it looks like something I could get out here in the suburbs.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolverine
The sheds are only a small part of the EM experience so I don't think the change is going to ruin EM for the people who don't like it.
And the other sheds have already been renovated, who thinks that was a bad idea? The only difference is now they look wonderful and clean with all of the same old character!
I agree that you have to assume that businesses know what they are doing in terms of their hours [[though I have seen cases where that didn't appear to be true)Quote:
Next time you go to GCM ask them why they close at 5PM. If you mention to one of the owners that he/she's missing out on the people getting off work at 5PM I don't think he/she's going to say that they never thought of that. Usually businesses are pretty good at reading their crowd and knowing what their hours should be. I'm sure the people at GCM aren't closing at 5PM so they can get home and watch the 6:00 news.
In the case of businesses in the Eastern Market area though, there is an additional problem, which is that the whole area is more attractive at times when there are more businesses open, but each operator only controls his own business, so a change that might be desirable if everyone did it, might not be good for any individual business making the change on its own.
I have no idea if there are any times when it would be advisable for Eastern Market stores to be open when they are not now, but this problem is one reason why malls generally require businesses to adopt common hours of operation.
I'm obviously out of the loop. All I know is I'm relieved to see that EM in 2015 isn't going to be the same EM I encountered in 2005. That place was pretty dilapidated, just another wasted opportunity.
I am also very happy to see that it is not being replaced by a Whole Foods [[err, Ikea? ;-). That would be like putting a bunch of chains on lower Woodward.
There is a PBS documentary that airs occasionally that provides a look at different large farm markets across the country. Produced by WQED it is titled “To Market To Market To Buy a Fat Pig".
Info on the documentary can be found at
http://www.wqed.org/tv/sebak/market/index.php
Interesting to see how varied the style and offerings of other farm markets are.
Are those developers are tear down the historic outdoor Eastern Marketplace building for a Supermarket like building? I like the old Eastern Market Area the way it is.
WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET
I wonder what happen to the Western Market?
Neda, I miss you so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Codfish
On that video, You see that some of the markets are entirely indoors ... some entirely outdoors. Some offer a broad selection of prepared or “restaurant” type food - some offer little. Some are set up to the “whole foods” side of things ... others have real, live farmers and livestock.
The video shows how each market has its own character ... and that is the challenge for Eastern Market.
The building blocks of Eastern Market’s character are there already ... real, live farmers selling produce ... some wholesale establishments ... a handful of retail shops and quirky boutiques with a great antique mall. Restaurants.
And significantly ... EM is an outdoor area - essentially an outdoor mall but with all the traffic jammed in.
As I noted in my previous long post, I think the best way to capitalize on what is already there is to improve the pedestrian experience. This should be the first order of business.
As listed in that post [[please read it); this entails improvements that manage the patterns of foot traffic throughout the district. And of critical importance is the appearance of safety ... drastic improvements in the appearance of blight viewable from the customer frequented areas, the management of street-sellers and other issues which cause people to question the safety of the area. Again, people will not shop where they are not comfortable.
The drawings that gthomas included in his initial post are quite similar to what many of the other “farmer’s markets” in that PBS video have. And yes, they will be a positive addition to Eastern Market however they do not capitalize on the existing character of EM ... but instead add a new dimension.
With consideration to the limited capital available for improvements, as I said in my other post, I think that *for the money*, the new developments in shed 4 are “putting the cart before the horse” [[as one might say in the farm market business).
For the money, the greatest synergy and improvement in business volume for the district will be to *first* embrace the character that has already been developed ... and to make those the pedestrian experience as safe, pleasant and customer friendly as possible.
Why continue to let what has already been established go fallow??
1) Develop and implement a comprehensive plan to improve the pedestrian customer experience and the appearance of safety. This would include *moving* the large parking [[lot) which is below shed 2 in front of J.R. Hirt and making that area into a customer friendly park-like setting with plantings, picnic areas and benches as well as a small stage or pavilion.
[[Though it’s not an elevated stage, here’s just one example from downtown Farmington that is a *huge* draw for the shops that surround it ... http://www.downtownfarmington.org/Po...certJune02.jpg )
2) Improve the parking in the district. Carefully coordinate parking into the overall district plan ... well maintained and lighted ... and more of it. Take into account the possibility of some form of public transportation eventually making it’s way into the EM district, and build-out with that in mind.
3) Re-connect Gratiot Market to Eastern Market. Issues of safety, and the appearance of blight and neglect need to be dealt with including the Gratiot frontage. Gratiot Market needs to be incorporated into both the district pedestrian plan and also parking planning.
4) Add the new dimension of a more modern type of interior shed space as posted in gthomas’ original post.
5) Hammer the City and any other government or private resources to connect the People Mover [[or Woodward Streetcar line etc) to the Eastern Market. Establishing a form of public transportation that is, or could be scaled up to, regional public transportation - even better.
Or have a shuttle bus that will take people from downtown or even from other parts of the city to the Eastern MarketQuote:
Originally Posted by Tony Codfish
The crowd would change once the new renovations are completed. The attitudes of some of the shop owners would change also.Quote:
Originally Posted by rjk
It may be comingQuote:
Originally Posted by stasu1213
http://www.detnews.com/article/20110411/BIZ/104110392
I think the existing renovations have been stellar, and the new ones look terrific. Nothing about them looks suburban...I just don't get that argument. Besides, it is one shed. Like it or not, if the Market grows and continues to be successful this will mean...gasp!!....more suburbanites will be going there, and the cynacism we love so much on this board will surely follow.
Keilson mentioned something about preserving the character of the old market while having another Eastern Market [[more local) next to it. That is a great idea, and one that could become totally viable. In my opinion the recent and upcoming changes keep the character of the old market. Lord knows there is plenty of room to grow the area towards Mack and towards Chene. [[Who knows, maybe one day that Chene Market will be a satellite for EM).
Theres is a need to expand, also Eastern market needs more residential between chene and russell. Theres alot of space east of russell and north of FD lofts. Too much land..nice townhomes or lofts can fit well in Eastern Market.
in fact there is. The Eastern Market Corporation is a company and like every company is looking for profit. They will impove the Eastern Market to make more profit and attract more people to come there.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1KielsonDrive
That is usually a good thing. But in Detroit people seem to be more interested in keeping things "the way they are". Which might be the whole problem right there.
It is sad that some people try to make things thrive and others just bash them because they are afraid of change. If there is a city that needs change then it is Detroit.
And if the Eastern Market gets people to come Downtown and leave money there instead of spending it in Royal Oak, then what is so bad about it?
Besides that - if you want people to move back into the city, these people need to get their groceries somewhere.
The important thing is to make shopping there fun and complex in a good way. People need to take the time to experience and merchants need folks to linger. I personally dont fancy the supermarkets who try to pass themselves off for a public market and charge exorbitant prices for polished apples etc... But I can dig public markets with fancy shops and cafes alongside simple stalls. It looks like a real magnet for suburban folks to come to the city. Perfect.
They show some residential plans for ..I believe Shed 7 & 8? pretty nice...look at all the pics under Eastern Market 360.
http://www.thekraemeredge.com/index....orporation_360
Would be pretty sweet if they had plans for the two entrance into Eastern Market from Mack & Russell, and Russell & 75/Gratiot pedestrian bridge entrance.Nice Historic Gateway Sign of some sort....? Also, have shuttle around the city to help citizens who want to come on weekends..? Not sure if they do that already?
I still say that the Gratiot facade of the Gratiot Central Market is due for a 21st Century facelift. Maybe a large picture plate window would do
yes i agree..stasu1213!!!! On both side of the Gratiot storefronts should be open up, kind of a "Gateway" to Eastern market. Across the street from Central market can be small shops/restaurant and retail.
That whole Gratoit corridor from Russell north to I375 could use a redevelopement. I know that those building that lined the corridor are lofts above the storefront but the storefronts could be used where places such as tea or coffeeshops, an herbal healthfood store, a bakeryshop such as the one on Gratoit and McClellan called On the Rise Bakery, and maybe another drygoods store. The storefront could still keep the vintage feel the Busybee Hardware has with the old fashioned neon lights. I had approached the owner of the candlestick store on the corner of Gratoit and Russel with the idea of selling different types of herbal teas and coffees. She had dismissed the idea saying that she had tried selling tea once but it didn't work. I had told her that Eastern Market is expanding and a tea shop on Gratiot would complement the market itself
I was going to say the same thing about having redevelopment plans along gratiot from russell to I-375...you beat me to it. Could increase foot traffic in a area with little to no foot traffic. That part of gratiot needs to be a key to the redevelopment of Eastern Market. Detroit has problems on creating " Gateways" to certain neighborhoods and connecting it others neighborhood. I think thats the problem..? More pedestrian friendly...connectivity is key...more infills.
A 24-hour tea/coffee house with an old Eastern market feel...on gratiot? Can really create change that area in that dark, dead, stretch of gratiot? Just saying...
Instead of just the pedestrian bridge that crosses over I-75, maybe a plaza could be built from the point of where the pedestrian bridge is to Russell St. That would open up the area for the flea market activity that currently goes on on the bridge now. People typically crossing at Russell would have more of a reason to check out what's going on at the flea market.
Also, it would be nice to see a restaurant or bar/nightclub go on the ground floor of the Atlas Furniture Bldg. It would add some nighttime traffic to the area. In addition, some residences at the corner of Gratiot and Russell would increase pedestrian traffic in the area as well.
Finally, there was talk of opening up Russell Street at Antietam to make travel by car from Lafayette Park to Eastern Market easier, but I haven't heard anything in years but I think it would be a good idea. The car traffic would probably increase the pedestrian traffic because the area would feel less isolated and therefore feel safer to walk.
Eastern Market could stand to expand. Would be a decent spot for an actual grocery store. If Detroit stands a chance it needs to provide basic needs. As it stands... to live and work downtown without a 7 day a week supermarket is probably a deal breaker for some people. You need to drive to 10 miles both ways to buy milk and eggs. That really would be a step in the right direction. Make the city more livable. Attract young professionals. As soon as they decide to have kids all bets are off but atleast you get tax revenue from them before that happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by royce
I like that idea about the plaza...also i was thinking the same thing about opening up to lafayette park. More friendly accessibility and Night life..I agree.
I was thinking about the layout for shed 4 in the first post in this thread when I was at EM on Saturday.
The layout looks nice with a dozen people there, the reality is that there will be 100's of people in that area which was the case when I was at EM. EM was ass packed on Saturday [[9:00 am) and it'll be that way until mid August. As far as getting more people to go to EM I'm not sure where you fit them in.
I'm hoping the sketches of Shed 4 are just prelimary ones because the isles are way too small to accomodate the crowds that will be there.
I was there too!! It was sooo cool! nice crowd, everyone was having a good time. Beautiful day...
The best thing about the market, in my opinion, is its ability to bring different kinds of people together. Somehow, these drawings make me feel that the shoppers will be much less diverse.
shed 2 and 3 are finish and are a great addition to the market..They kept it basic as far the design...just made it more accessible friendly. Whats wrong with that...just a little upgrade. It looks nice...WOW...makes me wonder what people really want to Detroit to be. In order to CONTINUE to be successful in this industry you have to be current with what work..With its upgrade the market will last another 100 yrs. Without it..?..I dont know, might be a wrecking ball. How can this region move foward, or do most of you all want Detroit to NOT be progressive or current with the world. Eastern Market will be fine or not better..with the new renovation...whats wrong people?