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"N.Y. church's move to Georgia: 'Preservation by relocation'?"
They're moving this one from NY to GA! I've always thought this was so much better than building new churches, many of which look like glorified cracker boxes, let's face it. :D
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...churches_N.htm
Can we? Heck we've done it! Mariner's Church was moved twice. Why would we want to move a church to GA anyways?
Wow - what a concept!! Well, the buildings at Greenfield Village were all moved there from all over the country, and the world I believe. I can't see why a church can't be moved the same way. I like the idea - but it does leave holes in the landscape to be sure. But what's worse - a hole or a bombed out building that looks like Sarayavo after an attack? :confused:
Don't forget about moving the Gem, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
I would like to see significant architectural structures and usable homes moved out of decommissioned neighborhoods in Detroit and brought closer to downtown, midtown, and woodbridge, corktown, and other vibrant but "gap-filled" neighborhoods in the core. Also bring the homes to Old Redford, University Heights, the villages & elsewhere there is activity. It would retain our city's character while at the same time ridding the city of blighted neighborhoods and turn them over to farms. Realistically, probably a lot of long-time residents would oppose this plan. But I can see it working better than other cities coming in and taking our building.
First Methodist was sawed out in the middle and the steeple moved east for a widening of Woodward. "...all things are possible to him that believeth."
I was only aware of one move. What was the second?Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
Might be a solution for that church in Delray that's surrounded on three sides by the sewage treatment plant. Can't see it being reused any other way. It's pretty hard to market a building with open pools of shit on three sides of it.
A number of structures were "defaced" when Woodward was widened. But at least they weren't moved 1500 miles away.
Then again....
If Detroit does it, it can also end in desaster. Old Slumpy comes to mind....
One of my favorite Detroit photos shows how Central Methodist Church dealt with the widening of Woodward. In 1936 a section of the nave was cut out and the entire Woodward Ave. facade including its 200' spire was moved back 30' to rejoin the remainder of the nave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick
It was as if the church were a loaf of Wonder Bread and slices 5-9 were removed and slices 1-4 were pushed back to join the remainder of the loaf.
The picture is from This Is Detroit, 250 years in pictures, [[M.M. Quaife, 1951)
Hey why not. And there's tons of hopeless abandoned apartment buildings scattered around Detroit neighborhoods. Have someone in a different city buy up all the bricks and limestone, and just demo the rest of the building and reassemble it on a new structure elsewhere. Otherwise the valuable materials just end up being destroyed by fire, the elements, and obviously demolition.
With all this talk of the city "downsizing", I could see how moving structures could become a lucrative business, even "green" business. You'd think the government would give tax breaks to people in that sort of business [[ also architectural salvage, vintage building materials dealers, renovation specialists, etc.), with all this talk of "green" industries. It's expensive to have a business in Detroit, so I'm sure every little bit would help.
Central Methodist was truncated by the project to widen Woodward as the office building to the east prohibited the building being move in total. St. John's Episcopal was fortunate enough to be moved intact, the chapel behind the building being taken down and rebuilt after the main church was moved. In the case of St. John's Writ Rowland of Guardian Bldg. fame, supervised the plans for the move and the renovations of the interior and also designed a new altar and reredos along with woodwork for the chapel. At the time of the move St. John's was the heaviest building ever to be moved. The tower, however was dismantled and rebuilt to the original design. When the freeway bridge over I75 and Woodward was being rebuilt several years ago, the workers uncovered the original foundations and water mains leading to the church. The church was able to obtain a number of foundation stones and the workers presented the rector with a piece of the tar covered hollow wooden water main. The stones used in the original construction came from a quarry at Kelly island in the Detroit river channel
I recall an episode of "Megamovers" or something similar to that and there was a rather large building, not a church, moved on it. .Can't remember what it was. I think it was for Comerica though
I remember as a young child when they built Finney High School. Some of the houses in the way of the construction were moved rather than razed. I remember a few large houses being moved down our street... Marseilles St. Since Marseilles was wider than the other streets near Finney [[Marseilles had the widest easement of any street in the area)... the houses were sent down our street.... not sure where they ended up though?
Wow now that is interesting. Being younger, I never knew the area "Pre-Finney." [[I do, however, remember when they added on to the front of Finney, I guess toward the end of the '70s if I remember correctly, and I remember what the front of Finney that looked like from Cadieux before that add-on was added).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
EMG,
Although I remember the houses going down our street... I don't remember what Finney looked like when it was still just an Elementary School, before they expanded it with the first set of additions. I don't know if [[for example) Oldtown, Bluehill or Guilford streets continued south of Southampton [[sidestreet that is the northern perimeter of Finney), and don't remember where these moved houses were originally located.
Hey, they even moved the Ford mansion in Windmill Pointe from along the river. Yep, they carted it off by boat lol. JK. It was taken down bit by bit and rebuilt along with several other homes on the former Gold Coast. One is a Kahn design on Provencal.
I don't remember when it was an elementary school [[may have been before my time) but what I am talking about remembering is when [[boy I wish I could easily Google up an old picture - maybe somebody here has one?!) you looked at the front of Finney from Cadieux, there used to be a couple of long curved metal pieces going out and downward from the clock on the front of the building. Mentally I used to associate the whole effect with Sally Field in The Flying Nun - with the clock being the face and the jutting out metal things the ends of the nun's hat! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
This was all when I was in the low-single-digit ages in the mid-60's and riding past Finney in my mom's car as we headed to and from shopping in the Grosse Pointe Village.
John B kings book store was also moved
Here's something peculiar: The R.L. Polk City Directory for 1928-29 lists Finney as "Finney annex to Hanstein 5281 Guilford av". Hanstein Elementary is listed as being at 4290 Marseilles!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
Attachment 5489
And I found this link from the John K. King web site: http://www.rarebooklink.com/cgi-bin/kingbooks/about.html?id=L8zyCNxM. Yes, it was moved in 1949 to spare it from demolition by the freeway going in...some 16 years before King started his store.
The idea of moving buildings within the city of Detroit to specific clusters is pretty interesting. If neighborhoods are rehabbed into town centers such as the AIA envisages, then a number of buildings could be moved to sites of lower density to accomodate these areas. One architecture student from Paris built his thesis on Detroit disubanization where he proposes moving residences to restore higher density around wide expanses. His thesis can be seen on issuu.com, a portfolio site. You can find it if you enter "Detroit". You can dowload the documents [[french).
Here is Montreal church The Erskine and American church on Sherbrooke street that no longer serves and will be integrated via a tunnel to the Montreal museum of Fine Arts. They are restoring the stained glass windows. The largest ensemble of such work by Tiffany in the world.
Here are pics of the American and Erskine; front and back rehab. And The Christ church cathedral which needed to have a new foundation beacuse of the clay soil. Then an underground shopping plaza was built underneath it and a 34 story tower behind it in 1987-8.
Here are the pics, sorry!
Moving a building is one thing and obviously doable to an extent. But the news article indicates that the issue is whether the abandoned Buffalo, NY church could be disassembled and shipped in pieces to northern Georgia and re-constructed? I would have to think the cost of such a project would be astronomical. But maybe not? Are there any architects/engineers on Detroit Yes that have an opinion?
Do a search in WSU's Virtual Motor City; there are two pictures of old Finney, one from 1929, and an expanded Finney in 1957. You can still see the original building on the backside, at the end of Guilford.Quote:
Originally Posted by kathy2trips
http://dlxs.lib.wayne.edu/cgi/i/imag...view=thumbnail
When Woodward Ave. was developing into a four lane superstreet with two DSR light rail lines in 1910 a couple of churches were moved just a tiny bit away.
Moving Indiana Bell HQ:
http://www.paul-f.com/ibmove.html
I remember a lot of homes being moved out of the path of 696 in Southfield and Oak Park. It was a frequent enough site that it was no longer a big deal to see a house crawling along on wheels. I always thought it would be cool to be one of the guys who gets to ride on the roof and move the traffic lights out of the way.
An organized plan of grabbing significant architectural homes and dropping them in certain areas either doing well or needing infill could work. There are a number of very large helicopters with huge payloads that could do the job rather quickly. I think most of the homes would have to be debricked at least partially.
I'm there with ya. But choppers? Really? I'd love to see those photos! I'm a big fan of relocating architecturally and/or historically significant, but geographically isolated [[read: endangered) structures. My dad was a bricklayer, and sometimes, I'd sit with him getting dried mortar and/or paint off old bricks he'd use to fix old houses. Farm kids husked corn, and I did that. Good times.Quote:
Originally Posted by szla
A few urgent relocation/restoration candidates off the top of my head:
The Lee Burt House
http://www.detroit1701.org/MosesWField.html
Alexander Chapton House
http://www.detroit1701.org/Chapton%20House.html
Get them out of where they are! There are a few places they could go, but my choice is along E. Jefferson near the other similarly aged houses there. I'd like to see that stretch "beefed" up a bit.
As for commercial buildings, we have all those great firehouses left that would make great homes, professional buildings or community centers. There are some great churches and schools that could be re-used, though that can get pretty hefty! There's an old Victorian storefront/office building at the corner of Henry and Grand River that has a terrible facade in front. I'd like to see the warehouse at the corner of W. Fort and 18th put to some good re-use as well, but not as a warehouse.
This is NOT to say that new historically compatible, era-sensitive new construction couldn't be worked in when needed. In a neighborhood, you shouldn't be able to tell the difference between new and old construction, ideally. Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the house where Little Harry's was rebuilt [[but with WiFi, A/C and "green" tech).
It would be so great to restore a pre-auto industry neighborhood to the way it looked when cars were first invented. What a tourist attraction THAT would be!
Miscellaneous Sources:
Relocation vs. Demolition Policy [[the statistics of demolition wastefulness OMG!)
[[Green House Gas, Energy, Economics, and Land Use)
http://texashousemovers.com/blog/201...olition-policy
Davis Construction Building Movers
http://www.davisbuildingmovers.com/id85.html
Expert House Movers [[See light house at bottom of page)
http://www.experthousemovers.com/testimonials.html
I'm there with ya. But choppers? Really? I'd love to see those photos! I'm a big fan of relocating architecturally and/or historically significant, but geographically isolated [[read: endangered) structures. My dad was a bricklayer, and sometimes, I'd sit with him getting dried mortar and/or paint off old bricks he'd use to fix old houses. Farm kids husked corn, and I did that. Good times.Quote:
Originally Posted by szla
A few urgent relocation/restoration candidates off the top of my head:
The Lee Burt House
http://www.detroit1701.org/MosesWField.html
Alexander Chapton House
http://www.detroit1701.org/Chapton%20House.html
Get them out of where they are! There are a few places they could go, but my choice is along E. Jefferson near the other similarly aged houses there. I'd like to see that stretch "beefed" up a bit.
As for commercial buildings, we have all those great firehouses left that would make great homes, professional buildings or community centers. There are some great churches and schools that could be re-used, though that can get pretty hefty! There's an old Victorian storefront/office building at the corner of Henry and Grand River that has a terrible facade in front. I'd like to see the warehouse at the corner of W. Fort and 18th put to some good re-use as well, but not as a warehouse.
This is NOT to say that new historically compatible, era-sensitive new construction couldn't be worked in when needed. In a neighborhood, you shouldn't be able to tell the difference between new and old construction, ideally. Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the house where Little Harry's was rebuilt [[but with WiFi, A/C and "green" tech).
It would be so great to restore a pre-auto industry neighborhood to the way it looked when cars were first invented. What a tourist attraction THAT would be!
Miscellaneous Sources:
Relocation vs. Demolition Policy [[the statistics of demolition wastefulness OMG!)
[[Green House Gas, Energy, Economics, and Land Use)
http://texashousemovers.com/blog/201...olition-policy
Davis Construction Building Movers
http://www.davisbuildingmovers.com/id85.html
Expert House Movers [[See light house at bottom of page)
http://www.experthousemovers.com/testimonials.html
I am kind of surprised this excellent thread has gone so far without mention of one of the biggest Detroit church moves of all -- The Church of the Messiah -- which was moved, brick by brick fashion, from downtown out to the then edge of town, E. Grand Blvd. and Lafayette - minus the steeple.
http://detroityes.com/webisodes/2010...siah-53409.jpg
This is from Ren Farley's 1701Detroit.org"By the early 1850s, the Episcopalians needed a new and larger church, so they asked Calvin Otis to design a church to be located at the corner of Congress and Shelby. He built an early English Gothic study building with lancet windows. He added a steeple to make the church highly visible in Detroit and paid that steeple with a much smaller turret. The interior of the church was completed in a very simple manner reminiscent of a New England meetinghouse. This church became St. Paul's Protestant Episcopal Cathedral.BTW, while driving by last week I notice that the crucifix that was stolen in 2010, then found in the weeds a couple of blocks away, has been restored. I will get a picture next time I go to Belle Isle for handball.
At the end of the Nineteenth Century, People's State Bank desired to build a large and impressive building. This is the extremely impressive bank building designed by McKim, Mead and White located at Fort and Shelby and completed in 1901. Calvin Otis' beautiful church was moved, stone by stone, to the corner of East Grand Boulevard and East Lafayette where it has stood for more than a century. Shortly thereafter the Episcopalians became constructing their cathedral at the intersection of Woodward and East Warren. The relocated church became the Church of the Messiah.
Detroit architect William Stratton supervised the move and redesign of the original church. The tall windows with their stained glass were retained but the original steeple and turret disappeared. William Stratton, as you might anticipate, augmented the renovated church with much Pewabic Tile. This church is an excellent example of how a prosperous Episcopalian congregation in a medium sized Midwestern city conceived of an English Gothic church a decade before the Civil War.
Date of Construction: 1852
Architect: Calvin N. Otis
Architectural Style: English Gothic with a New England meeting house interior
Architect for the move and renovation of the church: William Stratton
Date of removal: 1901
State of Michigan Historical Register: Listed
Photo: Ren Farley, February, 2003"
http://detroityes.com/webisodes/2010...siah-53412.jpg
Another interesting long-distance move with a Michigan connection:
http://longyearatfisherhill.com/history.htm
C. Fred Rydholm gave a different reason for this mansion being shipped from Marquette to Boston: A railroad duped Mrs. Longyear into dedicating a right-of-way across their front yard, along the shoreline, telling her that they would never use it. They did, of course, and Rydholm wrote that was part of why this stunning mansion was boxed up and shipped 1300 miles by rail.
By the way, if you want to read about the U.P. from a master storyteller, check out Rydholm's book, 'Superior Heartland'. All of his writing is great stuff.
Detroit [[& area) churches FOR SALE.
Your thinking of the Gem Theatre, and maybe the Elwood GrillQuote:
Originally Posted by mcsdetroitfriend
Looks like that one's already been relocated once, but upwards to accommodate a basement. Before ~ AfterQuote:
Originally Posted by kathy2trips
Though bigger and fancier, it reminds me of the farmhouse on Gratiot near Bringard which I suspect was built about the same time period.
Whoops we almost forgot the late great 'Slumpy'. The William Livingstone was moved one block and oops...
http://www.detroityes.com/news/07092...FORE-50511.jpg
I'm excited at seeing so many fine examples of successful moves. Does anybody know the accurate, modern cost of moving various structures? It really could be a very positive way to reassemble the city.
The Moses Field House on Field, and the Lee Burt House on Concord are two distinct structures. Must have got my links crossed between the two, sorry about that. :o The Field House is slightly older but both are inspired by Italian architecture, both are east side treasures and both are preservation and protection-worthy.
And yes, I see the raising of the Field House. That's a really interesting contrast. .
Thank you! Yes, it does! Think of the possibilities. For example: There are three or four gorgeous apartment buildings off Woodward on Merton, I think, that are screaming for relocation. There is such a need for housing of substance and integrity closer to town...and these would be far preferable to the conventional knee-jerk alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph C. Krause
That idea of picking up homes from abandonned neigbourhoods and ploping them down in the core is excellent! I don't even mean just the really amazing ones either. Any and all homes in great to good shape, should be pulled into the core. The rest can be salvaged for items and then photographed, documented and destroyed. Litterally fill up all of those empty blocks so you don't have powerlines to nowhere coming down everytime a bird farts knocking out entire sections of the city.
That would open up the rest of the city for new development.
Surely, moving houses would qualify for all sorts of "green" incentives. Also, gov't grants for moving a house into a historic district, or potentially historic district, preserving the character, integrity and livability of the area.Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnatomicflux
BTW: It's time Detroit start putting lines underground where ever possible, particularly in areas planned for re-development. Obviously, they're a big safety hazard.
From my work over here in Windsor's west end, at night when there's a good storm or heavy snow, more often then not I'll periodically see those familiar blue/green flashes of SW Detroit all over the place. Then I just feel horrible for the people living in these one home per block areas, with no siding on their homes or holes in the roof...now without power or heat.
Have you guys heard about this town called Adaminaby in New South Wales, Australia? They moved practically the entire town in the 1950s. To quote the article, "Entire houses, and even the Commercial Bank Building were transported on the back of trucks and over 100 buildings were re-erected at the new town site." :D
fyi/fye adaptive reuse for one of Chicago's monumental churches [[actually 2 buildings) and the reuse of the historic Austin organ from the Medinah Temple [[now Bloomingdales Home Store)
link to article with slide show http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2677204,CST-NWS-church05.article
like to video tour through the Medinah Austin c2000---including inside one of the universal windchests http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-3tYSxN8LQ
Kathy2 trips - which firehouses would make a great house? I think you're right but if you know some that would be worth a new thread in itself.
Of particular interest is that Church of the Messiah also contains all of the original stained glass windows from Old St. Paul's, some of the oldest imported English stained glass in the midwest if not the country. The Eaton family, the Vernors and Governor Baldwin were all members of St. Paul's and donated liberally---windows, pipe organs, church plate and vestments. St Paul's Cathedral retains all the plate and archive's from the era including many items purchased in England from the 1850's on. The glass at Messiah is well worth viewing---last time I visited it appeared to be in decent condition. The windows in [[and) the sanctuary as exists today are newer -- the product of several remodels with much Pewabic tile circa the 1920's. The nave windows contains the original glass.
I love this photo [[Ann Arbor house move)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrewbrix/289712052/
I wouldn't mind seeing the Moose Lodge [[on Cass Ave.) moved over a few blocks as infill on an empty lot located on the west side of Park Ave.
Another move I wouldn't mind is a few of the nicer historic homes in forlorn areas moved over as infill onto E. Ferry Ave. [[along its' farther eastern part).
Hell, they could even tear down the Merrill-Palmer-Skillman Institute at E. Ferry & John R [[when it was built 1/2 century ago they tore down 2 mansions to build it)... and replace it with infill historic homes. That M-P-S Institute building looks sooooo out of place along E. Ferry Ave.
^ I'd love to see some well-preserved historic homes placed in Brush Park. No need to raze Merrill-Palmer -- Ferry Street's doing pretty well as CoD streets go.
Ocean2026 and Kathy2trips--
Here is a link to all of the abandoned firehouses in the City as of 2009. The one at Davidson and Goddard has been demolished since this set of photos was taken. By my count, 8 of them are vacant at present.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4124702...7621986174095/
Love it, Gistok~! You're a visionary. The Moose Lodge would almost have to be moved, as it is sinking into its own basement. I always thought that the Moose Lodge and the GAR [[if moved) would make a great veteran's outreach center. Homelessness is bad enough, but the notion of homeless veterans makes me nuts. The GAR building in the mix would be so inspiring to returning vets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
I also applaud the idea of in-fill housing to complement the ambiance and era of the existing hood. I'd like to see the lot sizes reconfigured [[widened) to accommodate driveways and future enlargement [[if desired) of the housing. Also, elimination of alleys, which can be dangerous, hidden places, let's face it.
I think they could ALL be converted successfully. Anything built before, say, 1955 was built solid and could take major work. Go for it if you want to start a new thread; there are a lot of examples of firehouse conversions. Here's one in NYC...Anderson Cooper bought an 1906 firehouse to convert into a house. I'm so Jealous! LOL http://www.shelterpop.com/2010/02/05/anderson-cooper-buys-a-firehouse/Quote:
Originally Posted by Ocean2026
Thank you, cosine! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by cosine
They're moving a the historic Birdcage Bar in New Zealand.....very slowly.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10670186
Here's the moving of an old four-square duplex to make way for a worthy cause [[a new jail) in Greensboro, NC:
"Historic House Crosses Safe Line, Jail Can Move Forward": http://preservationgreensboro.typepad.com/weblog/2009/10/index.html
BTW: Preservation Greensboro has a very nice website.