The Detroit Riverfront

Driving from Belle Isle today, I detoured on Riopelle and starting traveling along that area and had to shake my head. How did the Young, Archer and Kilpatrick administrations allowed this area to rot and die? The area represents old Detroit. Just drive on Atwater and check out the bricks on the road. That's old Detroit for you.

I remembered going to the bars in the area: The Rhino, the Soup Kitchen, Bastilles, the Key Club and Detroit could have pushed this area like San Diego did with the Gaslamp Quarter. What do you think?

Anyone know when the nightclubs BCs and Feathers were torn down? The area has changed so much I forgot where they were located.

I heard along time ago that most of those businesses were forced to close as property owners sold their properties for some Rivertown casino that never materialized.

Yep. They destroyed a vibrant entertainment community that was also ripe for retail and residential development, featuring the ambiance of the river.
Instead, they left behind pheasants, rodents, and desolation. Then, they ruined Greektown. This is Detroitspeak for "progress".
I still sorely miss the music, food and vibe of the Soup Kitchen!

Wow. Just realized that I have accumulated 116 posts, in little more than a month. I will now pause, and limit future posts to positive, happy posts where appropriate!

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Originally Posted by Russix

I heard along time ago that most of those businesses were forced to close as property owners sold their properties for some Rivertown casino that never materialized.

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Oh I remember that disaster. I liked Archer as mayor but that was his biggest screw-up. Having the three hotel/casinos on the riverfront looked good on paper but greedy landowners killed the thought.

I would like to go back to the Young administration when the businesses were creeping out of the riverfront and the buildings sat and crumbled. Had he pushed for redevelopment and Archer had contiuned it it could have rival the Gaslamp in San Diego. Archer saw a dead zone and said "ok let's put the casinos here" and he put a red X on the riverfront area.

Kilpatrick was the man during the construction of the RiverWalk which is good, but that covers only the river. The area beyond the river looks like trash and it will sit and continue to die.

It's been nice knowing you, Bobl. lol

I'd say the biggest problem with the last 3 mayors [[and probably at least a few before them) is that they were more concerned with "projects" than they were with "policy". They spent too much time promoting downtown and focusing on certain developments than on providing a favorable business climate city-wide. And that's not to mention their virtual disregard for the residential areas.

In 2003, I visited San Diego and my friend took me to the Gaslamp Quarter which was at one time a run-down section of downtown San Diego. Much like the riverfront today. The area was full of life. There were restaurants, Irish pubs, Oldies bars, Hip Hop clubs, tequilla bars and a TGIF. I was sad knowing that Detroit didn't have such an environment in a central location.

I'm not saying Detroit don't have any nightlife because it does, however, it is for people who live here. When attracting tourists from other states or countries you want to be able have them go to a central location like Fisherman's Wharf in San Francisco or Hollywood Blvd. in Hollywood. Hell, Detroit could have used downtown Windsor as a model to make it a place to be.

Maybe one of the problems is that only recently, with the development of the Riverwalk, have people come to think of the river as an attractive asset. For a long time, the river was lined with factories, steel mills, warehouses, and parking lots [[and still is). I think that when the Riverwalk, Tri-Centennial Park, and The Dequinder Cut are all completed and integrated, they will be a big attraction. Let's hope!

Those in the city responsible for redeveloping the Rivertown area [[what the area is officially called) don't have a clue as to what to do with this area. Case in point, after the casino debacle, the city seized a large portion of the land in Rivertown. This fact should have made it easy for the city to redevelop the area, but the casino debacle was over 10 years ago and not much has happened since.

The city gave land to Dave Bing and the Delmar Development for a dollar each and yet these developments couldn't be developed. Why? Because the developers wanted too much for the units in their developments, that's why. How many folks in Detroit can afford a million dollar penthouse? Developments need to be designed for middle incomers not only the rich.

A new street south of Atwater needs to be developed. Atwater is a football field away. Between the new street and Atwater there can be residential developments.

Chene Park needs to be closed and rebuilt on the Ford Auditorium site. Too much valuable land is being wasted for parking at Chene Park. Also, no one who wants to live near the river wants to hear loud concert music nearly every night for four months.

Parking along the river near Stroh River Place and Jos Campau needs to be condensed into a parking deck, leaving the area closest to the river available for residential development.

I worked at Feathers when it was the Tangerine Room. On slower nights during the week, we'd head across the street to the Rhino. Clubs come and go, but the Rhino? That was one of those places that you figured would stay around forever. Now, the whole area is a ghost town. Very sad, and it seems like nobody cares.

The parking lots between the River and Atwater will be built over when demand for condos, apartments, and retail along that stretch picks up. A circle drive/drop off it supposed to remain from Atwater to the Rivard Plaza, I'm told. Diamond Jack's River Tours is moving to a new dock at the Rivard Plaza from Hart Plaza so that may help increase foot traffic in this area, at least on weekends.

I inquired about purchasing an abandoned building in the East Riverfront area. It is a two-story building on a corner lot, not too big. I called the owners and left a message and never got any reply. I wanted to renovate the inside, make the upper residential and the lower retail space. I still love the building and would love to do it, but because I never got a response I don't even know the price or anything. I also doubt any bank would finance a sale in this area filled with abandoned buildings and empty lots. Someday....

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Originally Posted by mallory

I worked at Feathers when it was the Tangerine Room. On slower nights during the week, we'd head across the street to the Rhino. Clubs come and go, but the Rhino? That was one of those places that you figured would stay around forever. Now, the whole area is a ghost town. Very sad, and it seems like nobody cares.

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I remember the Rhino quite well. I drove pass it on Saturday and wow...a disaster. The term ghost town is chilling because it is so true. The area is a ghost town.

When Archer announced that he was going to lump the three casinos on the riverfront, I was like great. This would be the shot needed to make a area that was decaying, alive and a new go-to location. Greedy landowners killed that area and created the death blow for the remaining businesses in the area. I remember the story about a bar in the area that closed its doors waiting to be bought and when the prices when up and up the offers were pulled and the property was never bought. I believe this bar was a speakeasy back in the 20's. Anyone know the name of this bar?

aggressive redevelopment efforts must take place.. it can start by knocking down any and all crumbling dinosour structures in the area.. even reconverting for lofts isn't an automatic given for these neighborhoods..

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I remember the Rhino quite well. I drove pass it on Saturday and wow...a disaster. The term ghost town is chilling because it is so true. The area is a ghost town.

When Archer announced that he was going to lump the three casinos on the riverfront, I was like great. This would be the shot needed to make a area that was decaying, alive and a new go-to location. Greedy landowners killed that area and created the death blow for the remaining businesses in the area. I remember the story about a bar in the area that closed its doors waiting to be bought and when the prices when up and up the offers were pulled and the property was never bought. I believe this bar was a speakeasy back in the 20's. Anyone know the name of this bar?

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Would you be talking about the Woodbridge Tavern? It certainly was a speakeasy back in the dry days. I believe the Soup Kitchen was as well.

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Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Would you be talking about the Woodbridge Tavern? It certainly was a speakeasy back in the dry days. I believe the Soup Kitchen was as well.

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Yes, that was it. Thank you, the name slipped my mind. The owner of Woodbridge closed the bar like the others did thinking they were going to get a big payday for their property. After the deal fell through, all those bars never opened back up. I'm still sad driving down Jefferson and not seeing Bastille's on the corner of Riopelle. Is the bar about Steve's Soul Food still called the Key Club?

Not sure about the Key Club.

The Woodbridge was breifly reopened and called The Stinkey Rose, but had a fire in it about 2 years ago. That pretty much spelled the end of the road for the building. :mad:

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Originally Posted by Detroitej72

Not sure about the Key Club.

The Woodbridge was breifly reopened and called The Stinkey Rose, but had a fire in it about 2 years ago. That pretty much spelled the end of the road for the building. :mad:

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http://fadeddetroit.blogspot.com/200...ge-tavern.html

Mallory, how can you work at Feathers when it was at the Tangerine Room? Wouldn't it either be called Feathers where the Tangerine Room used to be?

Here's a general question about what happened in Rivertown. If greedy landowners were the cause of the debacle in Rivertown, why does the city get the blame? What other way was the city going to get property for the casinos? Could they have bought property in a timely manner without the greedy landowners finding out why the city wanted to buy their property? How was the city's desire to buy land in Rivertown for casinos different from say Mike Illitch wanting to buy land in Rivertown for a new baseball or hockey stadium?

Also, I remember the owner of the Soup Kitchen closing up due to lack of business simply because he said people thought he was closed due to the news about the city buying up property for the casinos. If he still had his property and restaurant, why didn't he run a few TV and/or radio spots announcing that the business was still open?

BTW, Woodbridge Street is an alley street.

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Originally Posted by royce

Mallory, how can you work at Feathers when it was at the Tangerine Room? Wouldn't it either be called Feathers where the Tangerine Room used to be?

Here's a general question about what happened in Rivertown. If greedy landowners were the cause of the debacle in Rivertown, why does the city get the blame? What other way was the city going to get property for the casinos? Could they have bought property in a timely manner without the greedy landowners finding out why the city wanted to buy their property? How was the city's desire to buy land in Rivertown for casinos different from say Mike Illitch wanting to buy land in Rivertown for a new baseball or hockey stadium?

Also, I remember the owner of the Soup Kitchen closing up due to lack of business simply because he said people thought he was closed due to the news about the city buying up property for the casinos. If he still had his property and restaurant, why didn't he run a few TV and/or radio spots announcing that the business was still open?

BTW, Woodbridge Street is an alley street.

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I will try to answer. I have to go back 10 years in my memory. Back in the late 90's, there was the issue of where to put the three casinos. They believe that the casinos should be in close proximity to each other. After looking at locations in downtown, Archer decided that the casinos should be on the riverfront. Great idea because it would completely transform the area but the city didn't do its homework. The city attempted to buy the property needed for the project but there was a oversight they didn't know about. They were trying to buy land at regular valve but the federal government have a law that say that land acquired for a casino must be purchased at a higher price. The landowners sued the city because the city was attempting eminent domain to acquire the land at their price.

The court ruled against the city and the walls started crashing down on the riverfront project. The bar owners like the Woodbridge, the Soup Kitchen, etc... saw the money before they got the money so they closed their businesses expecting a windfall. After the deall fell through, I guess these owners couldn't unring the bell and tell all the customers, "hey, my bad."

Um.... sorry but there is no law that land purchased for casinos has to cost more... it's just the nature of the beast.

Land and building owners saw $$$ in their eyes when it came to selling their land/buildings to the city for the 3 casino developments. The city could not use Eminent Domain, since it was for a private [[and not a public) use.

Landowners wanted more than the city was willing to pay [[the limit was $150 million, the maximum price the 3 casinos were willing to fork over).

So when only about 60% of the land was procured for the $150 million, the deal with Archer and the casinos fell thru. The sellers who already sold their land made out OK, but boy the holdouts were pissed. Some tried to sue, but they had no legal standing.

So that was the end of that... and Archer told the casinos to build where they wanted to, to avoid land speculators. Well 2 of the 3 casinos opted to expand in their temporary sites, while MGM built a new casino from the ground up.

In order for Archer allowing the casinos to build where ever they wanted to, the city got to keep the [[very expensive) land. Part of that land is being developed for Tri-Centennial State Park, and other parcels are planned for commercial developments [[which have yet to get started).

The sad thing about the current state of the automotive industry is that GM was going to develop part of the east riverfront, just as they had developed the area around their New Center former HQ [[that development was called New Center Commons).

But with the automaker nearly in bankruptcy, it is doubtful that much new development will be taking place by GM on the east riverfront.

gistok, thanx for bringing some clarity to the discussion.

Many folks never cared for the Archer Casino Riverfront plan. Detroit has historically built buildings on the riverfront which didn't need windows. Joe Louis, Cobo, Ford Auditorium, Free Press printing plant and the places that did have windows closed off the water from the city.

Archer fatal mistake was in annoucing his plan before he had the land, before city council was on board and in direct opposition to the Greektown [[read Sault St. Marie) objective of staying in GreeKtown.

IMHO the area to build a Casino district was around Grand Circus. Imagine a renovated Statler, United Artist/Tuller and Broderick all transformed into an entertainment zone tying together the theater district into an area where folks could walk from one venue to another.

But what the hell do I know.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Driving from Belle Isle today, I detoured on Riopelle and starting traveling along that area and had to shake my head. How did the Young, Archer and Kilpatrick administrations allowed this area to rot and die? The area represents old Detroit. Just drive on Atwater and check out the bricks on the road. That's old Detroit for you.

I remembered going to the bars in the area: The Rhino, the Soup Kitchen, Bastilles, the Key Club and Detroit could have pushed this area like San Diego did with the Gaslamp Quarter. What do you think?

Anyone know when the nightclubs BCs and Feathers were torn down? The area has changed so much I forgot where they were located.

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They got an offer they couldn’t refuse.
Same goes for Greektown.
Let’s face it. Greektown no longer exists. We should rename it. I propose Trojantown or Tragictown.

^
You responded to an 11 year old Rivertown thread post about Riopelle St. just to complain about Greektown?

By the way Riopelle is doing much better these days...
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3344...7i16384!8i8192

Rivertown and Greektown were both defuncted for the same reason. That was my point. And to reiterate, Greektown is an absurd name for what exists on Monroe St. these days. Just as Midtown is a ridiculous name for the Cass Corridor. And yes, I responded to an old post rather than starting a new one on the same topic.

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Originally Posted by Henry Whalley

Rivertown and Greektown were both defuncted for the same reason. That was my point. And to reiterate, Greektown is an absurd name for what exists on Monroe St. these days. Just as Midtown is a ridiculous name for the Cass Corridor. And yes, I responded to an old post rather than starting a new one on the same topic.

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OK, I wasn't sure if you knew it was that old... I've seen people restart old forum arguments where not only were the original posts were so old, but the original posters were no longer on DYES to argue with. ;)

But I do disagree with you on Midtown and Cass Corridor. Midtown is a much larger segment of central Detroit than Cass Corridor ever was. Cass Corridor was always just the section along Cass Avenue. Whereas Midtown includes sections of the city that were never part of the Cass Corridor... such as the Cultural Center, Medical Center, WSU, and Brush Park.

Cass Corridor had a bad reputation, drugs, crime and decay... so I'm glad that it was rebranded, and today the area is broken up into Midtown Cass Park [[Ilitchville) and Midtown North Cass, although those names are not often referred to.

Yeah I don't understand when people get offended at the Midtown label. It's not replacing Cass Corridor. It's a larger area that happens to also encompass CC. I don't think it's even fair to say it's a rebranding.

What else are we supposed to call the large area between Downtown and New Center? It's literally the middle of town, Midtown.

OK, you and Gistok make good points and I see why Midtown is apropos.:)

But it is written that the former Greektown forever shall be dubbed Trojantown or Tragictown. [[It's a seldom-noted fact that Agamemnon, rather than a cuckold, was a real estate developer, don, or taikun. And The Trojan Women would be no less tragic had the true story been told.)

^ Ohhhhhhh-kay.... whatever name floats your boat... :confused: But I wouldn't count on either name to stick....

The city "relabeled" the Harmony Park area as the new Paradise Valley... but that name won't stick either.

Greentown was too small and too centrally located to stay a true ethnic neighborhood. It's tough to maintain a small, ethnic trick neighborhood when corporate interests want to demolish them for skyscrapers.

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Originally Posted by K-slice

Greentown was too small and too centrally located to stay a true ethnic neighborhood. It's tough to maintain a small, ethnic trick neighborhood when corporate interests want to demolish them for skyscrapers.

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Most of the older Greektown commercial buildings are Victorian, and are on the National Register of Historic Places. They're probably the last strip of 19th century buildings in Detroit, some going back to the 1850s. They're not going anywhere.

Merchants row on Woodward is actually lined with I think mostly 19th century buildings or very near 19th century.

I think Greektown needs more residential development again to feel more like an actual place and not just a gimmick tourist trap.

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Originally Posted by cleanmotorway

Merchants row on Woodward is actually lined with I think mostly 19th century buildings or very near 19th century.

I think Greektown needs more residential development again to feel more like an actual place and not just a gimmick tourist trap.

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Actually with the exception of the building housing the John Varvatos Store [[1895, originally Schwankovsky Temple of Music Building), all of the older buildings along Woodward [[with the exception of those between the Vinton and First National Buildings) are early 20th century.

I would like to see the old Police HQ, behind Greektown, turned into residential use. Also, would be nice if the Greektown buildings themselves had residential above the 1st floor... but that would mean only the north side of Monroe St. The South side old buildings are all part of Greektown Casino complex.

There's definitely a bit more than that. The Elliott building for example was built in 1894. I have not taken the time to look up every single building there though.

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Originally Posted by cleanmotorway

There's definitely a bit more than that. The Elliott building for example was built in 1894. I have not taken the time to look up every single building there though.

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Don't spend your time... we already know that there are a few surviving buildings along Woodward that date to the 19th century. None are going anywhere.

Just did some more quick searching. There's also the Frank & Seder Building built in 1881 and the The Pepper Building was built in 1898.

So there is a lot more than you originally thought.

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Originally Posted by K-slice

Greentown was too small and too centrally located to stay a true ethnic neighborhood. It's tough to maintain a small, ethnic trick neighborhood when corporate interests want to demolish them for skyscrapers.

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IMHO, it could and should have remained a true ethnic pocket. It was only a few blocks -- I wouldn't call it a neighborhood.

Archer's cluelessness might be forgiven because he wasn't a native Detroiter. But the other mayors were locals ranging from clowns at best to kleptocrats at worst.

As for myself, a walk through Trojantown leaves me in tears.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Cass Corridor had a bad reputation, drugs, crime and decay... so I'm glad that it was rebranded....

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Not to mention what has now come to light about Cass's slave-holding / pro slavery past. I still think Midtown is a boring choice however.

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Originally Posted by cleanmotorway

Just did some more quick searching. There's also the Frank & Seder Building built in 1881 and the The Pepper Building was built in 1898.

So there is a lot more than you originally thought.

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No I knew there were more... I've been a member of Preservation Detroit for 20+ years and do downtown tours... I was just too busy to look it up... ;)

The greatest loss in recent years to the Woodward Ave. streetscape [[besides the loss of the Monroe block) was the B. Siegel cast iron building of 1884... which was destroyed by fire in 1990...

Oh yeah, that was a beauty. Big shame.

Another good point. Cass was a scoundrel. I think Cass Avenue should be renamed Henry Whalley Way [[yust yoking) but seriously there are very few street names in Detroit that have been vetted for ethics. Rosa Parks Blvd., Martin Luther King, [[Augustus B.) Woodward, are bona fide.

P.S. Cassius Marcellus Clay was a hero larger than life and, though from Kentucky, a street in every city should bear his name. The story of his life is inspired and inspiring:

https://archive.org/details/lifeofcassiusmar00inclay

Well to stir up a very cold pot that's been sitting on the stove for awhile, let me ask a question about the residential development, Orleans Landing. How is it doing? I drive by it from time so time and see that a number of residential units are occupied. However, I was wondering what were they thinking when they added the ground floor retail? What kind of retail were they looking for because the space is so small? Also, there seems to be an over abundance of support beams in those spaces and low ceilings that very few businesses, in my opinion, could take advantage of that space. Any thoughts?

Wipe out ugly Hart Plaza and put in the three casinos there, along the river, either side of the Renaissance Center. It would be walking distance to Greektown along Jefferson and nearby to Cobo Hall or whatever it's called these days. The riverfront has really come along, but it could be better. Even Canadians will be attracted and can come through the tunnel onto Jefferson Avenue.

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Originally Posted by night-timer

Wipe out ugly Hart Plaza and put in the three casinos there, along the river, either side of the Renaissance Center. It would be walking distance to Greektown along Jefferson and nearby to Cobo Hall or whatever it's called these days. The riverfront has really come along, but it could be better. Even Canadians will be attracted and can come through the tunnel onto Jefferson Avenue.

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Lack of sleep?

It’s mind numbing to me that a major city with a major waterway, doesn’t use this resource to generate much revenue. What a waste.

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Originally Posted by jmcf1949

It’s mind numbing to me that a major city with a major waterway, doesn’t use this resource to generate much revenue. What a waste.

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The idea of using the Detroit river is a means of revenue was touted a few years back when the Port authority building was built but Detroit's ass backward politics had gotten in the way

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Originally Posted by stasu1213

The idea of using the Detroit river is a means of revenue was touted a few years back when the Port authority building was built but Detroit's ass backward politics had gotten in the way

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Should have built that ‘Freedom’ Gondola! Hahah

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Originally Posted by night-timer

Wipe out ugly Hart Plaza and put in the three casinos there, along the river, either side of the Renaissance Center. It would be walking distance to Greektown along Jefferson and nearby to Cobo Hall or whatever it's called these days. The riverfront has really come along, but it could be better. Even Canadians will be attracted and can come through the tunnel onto Jefferson Avenue.

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They'll be fine driving an extra 3 minutes to one of the existing casinos. The last things we need are a) more gawdy, neon-lit faux architecture, b) a greater reliance on casino revenue in the city, and c) more automobile-dependent entertainment.

Casinos do not encourage activity within a city; they are designed to keep people inside them as long as possible. I'd rather see these all built in some far-flung area of town.

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Originally Posted by night-timer

Wipe out ugly Hart Plaza and put in the three casinos there...

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Casinos? Huh, really? Who thinks this is the answer? They're part of the problem.

Whose money will they drain? You think Canadians'?? They have their own casinos-- without a wait at the border, no hassle from customs, no need for a passport.

What could they offer? Better chances at roulette? Pick a color and you still win if it's a prime number? Canada already offers recreational marijuana, full nudity, and a younger drinking age. Not at the same time, but easy to combine.

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Originally Posted by rbdetsport

Should have built that ‘Freedom’ Gondola! Hahah

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Wudda been much less money better wasted than tax incentives and eminent domain abuse for casinos, and the "giant sucking sound"* of local venues dying, the vitality and tax revenues they destroyed.

Not saying a gondola was a good idea. Saying gambling was much worse.

We know who were the casino investors but we don't know for sure the officials whose new wallets and purses they lined. Maybe one or two ~safe to assume.

*Ross Perot. Yo EDS! Hella maybe!

Let's not take for granted the natural beauty and the community / civic value of our riverfront -- especially not Hart Plaza.

Calculating the best use of a waterfront by its revenue is a superficial goal, like measuring the benefits of mass transit by fare receipts, or road and highway construction and maintenance by-- hmm, wait a minute.

Especially were Hart Plaza were sold to real estate developers, the beneficiaries.

I'm not even sure if anyone actually suggested it, but let's be careful not to sell such a prime assets for a one-time gain. Private interests would restrict access and keep future revenues mostly to themselves.

I took the revenue comment to mean tax dollars from redevelopment along the riverfront, not selling the public aspects of the riverwalk for financial gain.

I may be in the minority but I would love a gondola across the river and would definitely make use of it as someone who doesn't want to take their car everywhere.

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Originally Posted by southen

I took the revenue comment to mean tax dollars from redevelopment along the riverfront, not selling the public aspects of the riverwalk for financial gain.

I may be in the minority but I would love a gondola across the river and would definitely make use of it as someone who doesn't want to take their car everywhere.

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I know this idea would receive a ton of negative blowback, and maybe rightly so, but with another bridge over the river opening up, I'd love to see them incorporate non-car transit through the tunnel. Maybe a shuttle system, a tram, or even letting people walk and bike it. It would probably be unpopular, but it would be cool.

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Originally Posted by JonWylie

I know this idea would receive a ton of negative blowback, and maybe rightly so, but with another bridge over the river opening up, I'd love to see them incorporate non-car transit through the tunnel. Maybe a shuttle system, a tram, or even letting people walk and bike it. It would probably be unpopular, but it would be cool.

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A non-car transit is called the Tunnel Bus. It's mostly Windsorites heading over to Detroit for sports and entertainment. There will be a bike/pedestrian lane on the Gordie Howe bridge, which is ironic as it's the furthest from downtown and least appealing.

I would also take a water taxi across if that were an option. Although I plan on taking my bike across Gordie Howe when completed, something I should get in shape for starting now, I don't see myself doing that very often. With more residents and entertainment downtown than at any point in decades I think some sort of crossing near downtown that doesn't involve autos would have broad appeal.

Unless a casino is approved to be built on Belle Isle [[totally unlikely or impossible!) the Riverfront near the Ren Cen, Cobo Hall, Jefferson Avenue and Hart Plaza is the best bet for a major/new attraction to bring visitors to Detroit.

"Build it and they will come", as they say in Las Vegas.

You can also walk from Jefferson/Hart Plaza to Greektown with ease.

The MGM Casino near Michigan Avenue is Detroit's most ritzy casino IMHO, but it never even seems to rate a mention around here.

Three brand new casinos on the Riverfront, with all the ancillary businesses that would immediately pop up around it [[food places, bars, hotels with nice suites and river views, taxi/Uber services), would be a major drawcard.

Detroit needs this sort of stuff. The Hart Plaza part of town is overdue for a modern makeover anyway.

Detroit's casinos are some of the saddest places I've ever been. They are literally designed to keep people inside and take their money under the guise of "entertainment". Vegas is mostly a vacation destination for those with disposable income. Detroit casinos are where you'll find people who cannot afford to lose money, gambling away their money.

We need fewer casinos, not more.

^^ And definitely not near any waterfront areas... why put them there when they don't have windows to the outside.

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Originally Posted by night-timer

Unless a casino is approved to be built on Belle Isle [[totally unlikely or impossible!) the Riverfront near the Ren Cen, Cobo Hall, Jefferson Avenue and Hart Plaza is the best bet for a major/new attraction to bring visitors to Detroit.

"Build it and they will come", as they say in Las Vegas.

You can also walk from Jefferson/Hart Plaza to Greektown with ease.

The MGM Casino near Michigan Avenue is Detroit's most ritzy casino IMHO, but it never even seems to rate a mention around here.

Three brand new casinos on the Riverfront, with all the ancillary businesses that would immediately pop up around it [[food places, bars, hotels with nice suites and river views, taxi/Uber services), would be a major drawcard.

Detroit needs this sort of stuff. The Hart Plaza part of town is overdue for a modern makeover anyway.

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1. Casinos are designed to keep 100% of the business inside. Even in Las Vegas 99% of the restaurants and shops are inward facing. There is not a casino in this country that spins off substatial ancillary commercial growth. They are all designed for the money to stay inside and in vehicle dense areas like ours, for vehicles to go directly in and out which deters pedestrian activity.

2. Detroit is not a pass through town. Due to our geographical location, you have to go out of your way to come here from out of state. It's not like one drives from Pittsburgh to Chicago and says " I'm going to stop over in Detroit." Therefore the majority of the money spent in our casinos comes out of the pocket of local and regional residents. I do not see the benefit of taking more money from Michigan residents.

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Originally Posted by DetroitSoldier

1. Casinos are designed to keep 100% of the business inside.

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That's one area where Gilbert didn't quite live up to his promises. He stated when he bought Greektown he would open it up to Monroe. Whether he couldn't lease them I don't know, but he didn't open up the storefronts on the casino side of the street. He did offer comps to some of the restaurants but that was about it. The fact that Greektown, the casino with the worst driving/parking access, always finishes 3rd in revenues by a good margin also confirms what you're saying.

The Detroit casinos are an absolute disaster, and any elected official who participated in allowing these predatory "businesses" to open should is corrupt and utterly disrespectful of the interests of the residents.

The destruction of Rivertown for casinos that never materialised is downright criminal. It's shocking this district is still in ruins, even after major capital investments in the riverwalk. One can only image how it could have been different had it not been for these corrupt officials delusions.

I worked in Rivertown in the 1970s, and it was much too large and spread out to be walkable. If I had to go to lunch from my work location within the district I always had to drive my car. Maybe 100 years ago it was dense and full of buildings... but long before the stupid casino plans for there, half of the area was mostly commercial/industrial, or abandoned or parking. All the bars/restaurants were blocks away from each other.

Harbortown sucked when it was built... it was virtually a gated community with Jefferson retail. Stroh's Riverplace had the right idea... but there was never anything much in the way of retail/dining [[can't eat at the Rattlesnake Club all the time).

For all the complaints people have about Orleans Landing, at least it is new development that is dense and doesn't pretend to be 150 years old. If you look at the Globe Trading Company Building, that was a botched ugly rehab of a 150 year old building...

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3329...7i16384!8i8192

An lets not forget that GM had big plans for development next to the Renaissance Center that never happened.

So many missed opportunities along the riverfront... at least the 3 cement silos are gone and replaced by the Riverwalk, and the Dequindre Cut is being developed.

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Originally Posted by casscorridor

The destruction of Rivertown for casinos that never materialised is downright criminal

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The Rhinocerous Club alone was better than casinos, had they been built.
Those old buildings had so much potential.

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Originally Posted by Gistok

I worked in Rivertown in the 1970s, and it was much too large and spread out to be walkable. If I had to go to lunch from my work location within the district I always had to drive my car. Maybe 100 years ago it was dense and full of buildings... but long before the stupid casino plans for there, half of the area was mostly commercial/industrial, or abandoned or parking. All the bars/restaurants were blocks away from each other...

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You're right buildings there were mostly commercial/industrial and many were abandoned. But they were authentic, solid, eclectic, and charming. Each had many stories to tell. That's not possible from new construction, no matter how hard they try. It was a huge missed opportunity so many were torn down instead of renovated. It could have been like Old City in Philadelphia-- once largely abandoned commercial/industrial, now one of the most thriving and interesting places around.

Besides, not everyone has the same idea of what's walkable. It doesn't take more than 30 minutes to casually walk the entire length of Rivertown. It's about the same distance as from Orleans Landing to Campus Martius. About the same as from the North Quad to Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor. And about the same as from Union Sqaure to Bryant Park in NY. Speaking as someone who has only owned a car in Detroit, and who has lived in three other cities, a lot of us regularly walk farther than that.

^^ I agree Bust... sadly the nicest of the warehouse district was the higher density area that is the downtown riverfront today...

What's happening with the former Joe Louis/Red Wings ice arena near the river? Was this demolished to make way for a casino? I haven't been past the site for a year or more.

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Originally Posted by night-timer

What's happening with the former Joe Louis/Red Wings ice arena near the river? Was this demolished to make way for a casino? I haven't been past the site for a year or more.

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Definitely not a casino. I think the developer is now Sterling Group, and they have specific criteria for what can go there.

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Under a 2014 bankruptcy court agreement, creditor Financial Guaranty Insurance Corp. was to hire a developer to build a hotel with at least 300 rooms, plus office, retail and residential uses. The agreement gave the city 90 days to review a development agreement once submitted.Later, however, FGIC sued to get more time to submit a development agreement and the city and creditor ultimately reached a mediated agreement for an extension.
That lawsuit said said the city's planning department has, "consistent with [[FGIC's) view, questioned whether the Development Proposal should still include the contractually specified hotel or whether the Property would be better utilized in another form."

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https://www.crainsdetroit.com/voices...-any-time-soon