Can Vicki Barnett Beat LBP for Oakland County Executive?

I understand that as bigoted and backwards thinking LBP is, he certainly has an excellent reputation as a money guy. Oakland county is consistently under budget and making money under his watch...

but.. his ways of thinking of sprawl and suburbanization are severely outdated. I never knew much about his opponent until this article [[as I won't be voting for oakland county executive anyways).

She seems to be extremely progressive moving forward into this decade, understanding the importance of good public transportation, and walkable communities for young people. some of the quotes in this article are interesting..


"She said Oakland County has changed and Patterson hasn't.Patterson is trapped in an outdated mentality of freeways and sprawl when the growth market is in walkable downtowns and redevelopment of older communities to attract young, college-educated workers, Barnett said."

"Barnett said she supports the Regional Transportation Authority tax that voters are asked to approve in November will fund commuter rail, expanded regional bus service and a streetcar system in downtown Detroit.
Patterson agreed to have tax question on the ballot, but said he's remaining neutral, noting "there are enough issues in that document to give me concern.""

"The two candidates differ on the necessity of expanding I-75 through the county, a project that's expected to cost more than $1 billion and take more than a decade to complete."

"Barnett points to the rebirth of Downtown Detroit as proof that young workers prefer walkable communities with access to public transportation."

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loca...rson/92689116/

""I'm proposing redevelopment around transit hubs," Barnett said. "It would increase property values in our older communities, that really need to have redeveloped without being a drag on the county.""

so in summary, she supports the RTA, opposes the I-75 expansion, and wants to further develop the suburbs around transit hubs, understanding the importance... whereas LBP has remained neutral or gone against all her beliefs.

Unfortunately for her she has a STEEP hill to climb to beat LBP. He has raised 700,000 while she raised 10,000. and LBP track record of remaining on budget and with a surplus will surely likely win him the election..

what-say-you Oakland county dyes voters?

L. Brooks Patterson could die weeks before the election and still get elected.

I voted for LBP in the past, but I will be voting for Barnett because I'm having serious doubts about the Republican Party's inability to stop people like Trump from rising to the top to be their leader. There's probably only one republican I'll be voting for, and that's Bouchard for Sheriff.

I've gone from a nearly straight-ticket republican to a nearly straight-ticket democrat in just 14 years.

Here are the election results from 2012: http://results.enr.clarityelections....n/summary.html

Patterson 56.7%, Howley 42.99%


If Patterson loses, I would consider Trump to be a huge factor.

The media has a history of having candidates with huge leads and in the 2-4 days before an election making as many races "within the margin of error" as a means to try and lure people to go vote.

LBP, as crazy as some of his views are will roll to an easy victory.

People are voting for the perceived value of their homes [[i.e. solid county finances, budget surpluses) and that will trump any social views he may have. For 99% of people, county decisions/views don't affect them on any day to day basis.

^^ This, in a nutshell.

Oakland County as moved leftward politically in the past two decades. Kerry narrowly carried it in 2004, Obama easily by wide margin in the next two. County Attorney and Drain Commissioner are Dem and many more are commissioners.

But name recognition and an okay economy count hugely in a down ballot presidential year election where issues get buried. I agree with the above posts. Vicki Barnett, who in full disclosure I know, is 1. very smart and competent and 2. very unlikely to unseat LBP barring a huge Dem turnout.

LBP has a big friend-of-business and sprawl reputation that looks out for Oakland County first and, unfortunately, only. That has been tattered. Growth has slowed and many areas of the county have become depressed. He has lost the Lions and now, seemingly, the Pistons to Detroit. Other businesses are eyeing Detroit. Once a top ten wealthy county is now down somewhere in the 100's.

Unfair or not, he is viewed by many as quasi-racist, rising to fame by exploiting busing then trumpeting his full-of-code-speak public feud with Coleman Young. That secured his edge in the past but with the vastly changed demographics is increasingly a deficit. Regardless the outcome, I think this will be his last hurrah.

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"I think the public appreciates candor," Patterson said. "I've always told it like it is. I'm so tired of political correctness, I'm practically gagging on it. I'm never going to be politically correct."

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I say what I want and don't worry about political correctness. It's never an issue for me. That's probably because I simply just avoid being a POS.

I think it's safe to conclude that if you're "gagging" on political correctness, you're just a POS.

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Originally Posted by Lowell

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Unfair or not, he is viewed by many as quasi-racist, rising to fame by exploiting busing then trumpeting his full-of-code-speak public feud with Coleman Young. That secured his edge in the past but with the vastly changed demographics is increasingly a deficit. Regardless the outcome, I think this will be his last hurrah.

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Lowell -- I wonder if that was/is a fair view? Was LBP racist [[or were his words racist), or is it just that he didn't hew to the requirement to pay fealty to the right opinions?

I've lived through LBP and the CAY 'fights', and I don't really remember that they were racist. Contentious? Controversial? YES.

But what did I know back then. I was young and a Democrat. Curious to know what others who were there thought.

It would be a breath of fresh air to have a county executive who was not pro-sprawl and instead concentrated on revitalizing the older inner-ring suburbs.

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Originally Posted by noise

I say what I want and don't worry about political correctness. It's never an issue for me. That's probably because I simply just avoid being a POS.

I think it's safe to conclude that if you're "gagging" on political correctness, you're just a POS.[/FONT][/COLOR]

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Damn, I was reading that Freep article this morning thinking the same thing. Your post has crystallized my thoughts eloquently.

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Originally Posted by DetroiterOnTheWestCoast

It would be a breath of fresh air to have a county executive who was not pro-sprawl and instead concentrated on revitalizing the older inner-ring suburbs.

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Oakland County has, easily, the healthiest, most desirable older inner-ring suburbs in Michigan, so that makes zero sense.

Macomb and Wayne County tend to have far worse sprawl than Oakland, which tends to have lakes, state and county owned land, and wealthy NIMBY people, blocking development.

The reason so many on DYes dislike Oakland isn't due to sprawl, but due to the healthy older suburbs which people view as threats to Detroit and Wayne County. They view places like Royal Oak as impediments to fixing Detroit.

They wish Oakland were more like Wayne and Macomb, where aging inner ring suburbs are no threat to Detroit. No one really wants to live in Roseville or Westland.

Vicki Barnett may very well be an excellent choice to succeed L. Brooks Patterson, but LBP has my vote until he no longer wants it, or no longer needs it. While corruption and financial ineptitude have continuously tainted nearby Wayne and Macomb Counties, LBP has kept Oakland's management nearly scandal free and on a solid financial footing. Why risk drawing a card when you already have a winning hand?

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Originally Posted by Johnnny5

Vicki Barnett may very well be an excellent choice to succeed L. Brooks Patterson, but LBP has my vote until he no longer wants it, or no longer needs it. While corruption and financial ineptitude have continuously tainted nearby Wayne and Macomb Counties, LBP has kept Oakland's management nearly scandal free and on a solid financial footing. Why risk drawing a card when you already have a winning hand?

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I completely agree with the above. LBP definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea but you can't argue with success. Nothing is perfect but I think Oakland County is a great place to live. Give credit where credit is due.

Voters are tired of senile politicians. LBJ is 78 and in a wheelchair - time to say night night! Same with Dingell[[he finally stepped down only to hand it to wife) and Conyers[[88 and counting)....I'll vote for Barnett just because Patterson is too old to do the job. But name ID will probably keep him in office...

I think it's funny now LBJ is considered a moderate republican. When he first came on the scene in 80s he was right wing cause of his support for the death penalty and Bill Millikin was moderate republican cause he was pro choice...

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Originally Posted by softailrider

I completely agree with the above. LBP definitely isn't everyone's cup of tea but you can't argue with success. Nothing is perfect but I think Oakland County is a great place to live. Give credit where credit is due.

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tbh I think it's really easy to look successful when your county if rich. There's a much higher tax base so you can more easily pay for things with lower taxes.

When Oakland County is faced with a more comparable situation like Pontiac, despite all of the advantages from the rest of the county Pontiac is still in bad shape.

And during LBP's time Oakland County has declined a lot nationally. While most of that is because of the metro area's decline, his anti-regionalism has contributed to that regional decline.

4% is a lot, so he's going to win unless the quality of the poll was bad and it's way off.

Its time for LBP to go. I appreciate all that he has done over the years but its time for new blood and time for someone with a better approach to regionalism in Metro Detroit.

I can vote in the election and not voting for LBP. He's a dinosaur and frankly too I question is age to effectively govern and represent the county when he doesn't reflect the viewpoint of a vast majority.

I appreciate his fiscal conservatism but do not appreciate his quasi-bigotted, quasi-racist, and pro-sprawl comments that are about 20-30 years in the rear-view mirror.

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Originally Posted by DTWflyer

I appreciate his fiscal conservatism but do not appreciate his quasi-bigotted, quasi-racist, and pro-sprawl comments that are about 20-30 years in the rear-view mirror.

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I agree with all this.

LBP is also a Trump supporter, and I will not support any candidate who enabled that racist, quasi-fascist clown. It's great you can balance the books but if you're with the Trump loons you don't have a shred of decency and deserve to be voted out of the public realm.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

I agree with all this.

LBP is also a Trump supporter, and I will not support any candidate who enabled that racist, quasi-fascist clown. It's great you can balance the books but if you're with the Trump loons you don't have a shred of decency and deserve to be voted out of the public realm.

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I don't give a shit who he's supporting for president. That has nothing to do with my street getting plowed and my garbage picked up or EMS arriving 3 minutes after a call. I'd rather give the devil his do - he has done a first rate job at the helm of Oakland County. So what if he's not all warm and fuzzy and turned into a curmudgeon, nobody has to love him.

My biggest gripe about Patterson is how his us-vs-them mentality has contributed to depress metro Detroit as a whole. I wish more people in Oakland County realized how much regional macro economics affect them too. Finest cabin in a listing ship. I hope he's voted out.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

I don't give a shit who he's supporting for president. That has nothing to do with my street getting plowed and my garbage picked up or EMS arriving 3 minutes after a call.

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To me, there's nothing more important. I could give a crap about relative snowplowing effectiveness if he's enabling a fascist.

My family survived fascism two generations ago; we aren't going through this again. There are more important things in life than ensuring the trains run on time.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

I don't give a shit who he's supporting for president. That has nothing to do with my street getting plowed and my garbage picked up or EMS arriving 3 minutes after a call. I'd rather give the devil his do - he has done a first rate job at the helm of Oakland County. So what if he's not all warm and fuzzy and turned into a curmudgeon, nobody has to love him.

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All of this has nothing to do with LBP. Oakland County was already rolling in cash when he got there. If you want to credit anyone, then credit Dan Murphy. It wasn't exactly some great feat to balance a budget in the 90's in the OC. Pretty much the bare minimum expectation. It's like praising Tim Cook for pulling a profit at Apple.

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Originally Posted by bust

My biggest gripe about Patterson is how his us-vs-them mentality has contributed to depress metro Detroit as a whole. I wish more people in Oakland County realized how much regional macro economics affect them too. Finest cabin in a listing ship. I hope he's voted out.

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This is why I've never voted for him.

Oakland County was destined to be Metro Detroit's "wealthy" county [[ala Westchester or Lake). It was the original "up north", it had great natural beauty, and it made sense to build on the lakes and through the hills and move north. I don't think LBP made Oakland County wealthy, he was just at the right place at the right time. Is he good with numbers and business? Sure, I'll give him credit there but that doesn't mean he had to be the negative asshat he was to Detroit. He did not see the forest for the trees.

His mentality made the other boys club members who moved to Oakland County from Detroit be like him. White families who moved from Detroit because it was "changing" and taught their kids that Oakland County and nothing but Oakland County [[and maybe the cottage up north) was paradise on earth. That what we do here is correct. Sprawl and blandness. Transit? We have cars! AND ONLY CARS! Yes, that black family is nice but if they move into the neighborhood we're moving to Lake Orion or Clarkston or Oakland Township...Oh they did move in? FOR SALE sign is up!

He has also created the county so that the northern half and southern half/Pontiac are at constant odds over each other. The RTA millage is a great example! Transit services aren't being provided totally to the northern townships so why should they pay? [[In short, so we can live in a connected and mobilized region which means economic and social growth) They want to live in the country with the amenities of a city. Well it doesn't work that way.

And even if there is no corruption in Oakland County, he has ruled Oakland County with an iron fist. I've worked for two different county departments, and firstly you watch a propaganda video at orientation spouting the greatness of LBP and OC and then it seemed everything and everyone was being watched by the county.

If he does win this election, God forbid, this will be his last term as he said it would be. And for that I smile.

I'm with Bham1982. If you support Trump, you don't get my vote. It shows that for the sake of a political party you're willing to support a racist, sexist, egomaniac for president.

Once again thanks to his old order loyalist friends. L.B. Patterson [[ the Mayor of White Detroit) will win. He always does.

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Originally Posted by Danny

Once again thanks to his old order loyalist friends. L.B. Patterson [[ the Mayor of White Detroit) will win. He always does.

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No he won't, Vicki can win if enough people vote. There's a much larger pool of young forward thinking voters in Oakland.

Racism and egomania have been the foundation of Brooks' entire political career, the man was against desegregation of schools. He only keeps us in the past.

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Originally Posted by bust

My biggest gripe about Patterson is how his us-vs-them mentality has contributed to depress metro Detroit as a whole. I wish more people in Oakland County realized how much regional macro economics affect them too. Finest cabin in a listing ship. I hope he's voted out.

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That was the prevailing mentality in all of S.E. Michigan back then. C.A.Y. did his part to contribute to that view. LBP had money on his side at the time back then and could turn his back on the city. Now everybody is competing for a smaller pool of businesses and O.C. is suffering too.

Did you ever think that in spite of all his foibles and baggage, he keeps being re elected because he consistently does a good job for the county who pays his salary? I really don't think there's any other reason.

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Originally Posted by GMan

That was the prevailing mentality in all of S.E. Michigan back then. C.A.Y. did his part to contribute to that view. LBP had money on his side at the time back then and could turn his back on the city. Now everybody is competing for a smaller pool of businesses and O.C. is suffering too.

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CAY was treating LBP just as he was treating him. It goes both ways, Bud... LBP steered everything away from Detroit, to promote Oakland County. He was never about working together for the good of SE Michigan, he was all about Oakland County, and to a lesser degree, Macomb County. Anybody but Wayne County. Heard he about shit his pants when he found out, the Pistons are moving back downtown. It's all academic now anyway, he's back in the big chair for another term, hopefully his last...

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

CAY was treating LBP just as he was treating him. It goes both ways, Bud... LBP steered everything away from Detroit, to promote Oakland County. He was never about working together for the good of SE Michigan, he was all about Oakland County, and to a lesser degree, Macomb County. Anybody but Wayne County. Heard he about shit his pants when he found out, the Pistons are moving back downtown. It's all academic now anyway, he's back in the big chair for another term, hopefully his last...

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That's what I was saying, it went both ways. It's not like CAY or LBP would extend an olive branch to the other. LBP just had cheap land and taxes as a ace in the hole to lure those businesses, CAY didn't.

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Originally Posted by GMan

That's what I was saying, it went both ways. It's not like CAY or LBP would extend an olive branch to the other. LBP just had cheap land and taxes as a ace in the hole to lure those businesses, CAY didn't.

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Ok, I misunderstood you, thanks for clarifying.

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Originally Posted by GMan

That's what I was saying, it went both ways. It's not like CAY or LBP would extend an olive branch to the other. LBP just had cheap land and taxes as a ace in the hole to lure those businesses, CAY didn't.

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I don't think "cheap land and taxes" has anything to do with it. Most former downtown businesses that relocated from Detroit to Oakland chose some of the highest tax/highest land value jurisdictions in Michigan.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

I don't think "cheap land and taxes" has anything to do with it. Most former downtown businesses that relocated from Detroit to Oakland chose some of the highest tax/highest land value jurisdictions in Michigan.

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In the mid 70's land value was not as inflated as it is now. Couple that with tax breaks to move the business, it made more sense to re-locate than re-investing in the old facility. This increased Oakland counties tax base and resulted in the values we see today.

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Originally Posted by Calltoaction

No he won't, Vicki can win if enough people vote. There's a much larger pool of young forward thinking voters in Oakland.

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L.B. Patterson wins the election once again. Oakland County, get use to four more years of his racist cussing and anti-regional attitude. Deal with it.

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Originally Posted by Calltoaction

Racism and egomania have been the foundation of Brooks' entire political career, the man was against desegregation of schools. He only keeps us in the past.

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When I see black folks hit north of 8 Mile Rd. Southfield, Oak Park, Lathrup Village and Royal Oak TWP. and Pontiac. Desegregation of any services in the O.C. became the reality.

What L.B.P. is going to do? Blame Detroit! blame Coleman Young or blame the ethnic Jews who once lived in those areas, sell their properties to black folks and move on.

And gee whiz, baby boomers remember Orville Hubbard in Dearborn.

So Oakland County to the north, and Dearborn to the west.

At least the Detroit River never elected an anti-Detroit pol. :confused:

Brooks became OC Executive in 1992

Coleman retired in 1994 and for the last two years of his term he rarely left Manoogian and rarely got out of his pajamas.

You folks have imagined big fights between Brooks and Colemen. It is akin to having a serious discussion over who would win an egg rolling contest: Batman or Superman.

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Originally Posted by gnome

Brooks became OC Executive in 1992

Coleman retired in 1994 and for the last two years of his term he rarely left Manoogian and rarely got out of his pajamas.

You folks have imagined big fights between Brooks and Colemen. It is akin to having a serious discussion over who would win an egg rolling contest: Batman or Superman.

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The love fest started before he was OC exec. Here's an excerpt from a Newyorker article:

At one point, Young, who had already irritated Patterson by referring to Oakland County as “the cornfields,” called him a racist for having represented the anti-busing organization. Patterson fired back on the op-ed page: “If favoring the neighborhood school and opposing the attempt to make schoolchildren pawns of the federal court social experiment makes me a racist, then I plead guilty. If opposing Coleman Young’s $600 million Detroit subway, an extravagant and ineffective testament to his ego, makes me a racist, then I plead guilty. . . . If publicly stating . . . that future economic bailouts for Detroit are at an end until Detroit gets its own fiscal house in order makes me a racist, then I plead guilty.”

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Originally Posted by GMan

The love fest started before he was OC exec. Here's an excerpt from a Newyorker article:

At one point, Young, who had already irritated Patterson by referring to Oakland County as “the cornfields,” called him a racist for having represented the anti-busing organization. Patterson fired back on the op-ed page: “If favoring the neighborhood school and opposing the attempt to make schoolchildren pawns of the federal court social experiment makes me a racist, then I plead guilty. If opposing Coleman Young’s $600 million Detroit subway, an extravagant and ineffective testament to his ego, makes me a racist, then I plead guilty. . . . If publicly stating . . . that future economic bailouts for Detroit are at an end until Detroit gets its own fiscal house in order makes me a racist, then I plead guilty.”

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Funny. I just think of all the money and effort that went into these postwar missile defense systems both in Detroit and adjacent cornfields. How extravagan t! Coleman woulda put a subway in Detroit and he's still seen as a shill for promoting all that is bigoted and incendiary and counterproductive in metro Detroit. Mr Patterson continues as the undisputed king of Sprawl. Why should he change his recipe of countering the core city's effort at centering itself as the naturally occurring hub of the region? People keep voting him in...

Your post illustrates beyond question the dismal condition of Detroit's situation in the region when political forces refuse to acknowledge the preeminence of the central city. It has hurt the economic and social cohesion in many ways and undermines cultural destiny in a city that might have proved a model in diversity if the cards had been dealt fairly early on.

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Originally Posted by canuck

Funny. I just think of all the money and effort that went into these postwar missile defense systems both in Detroit and adjacent cornfields. How extravagan t! Coleman woulda put a subway in Detroit and he's still seen as a shill for promoting all that is bigoted and incendiary and counterproductive in metro Detroit. Mr Patterson continues as the undisputed king of Sprawl. Why should he change his recipe of countering the core city's effort at centering itself as the naturally occurring hub of the region? People keep voting him in...

Your post illustrates beyond question the dismal condition of Detroit's situation in the region when political forces refuse to acknowledge the preeminence of the central city. It has hurt the economic and social cohesion in many ways and undermines cultural destiny in a city that might have proved a model in diversity if the cards had been dealt fairly early on.

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No it doesn't illustrate beyond question that the condition of Detroit is because Coleman didn't get a subway.
Detroit had it's share of federal dollars for projects that went to friends of the mayor. Building that subway wouldn't have changed the fact that people were still moving out. Schools were in a decline. Crime was ramping up. Arson was Detroit's favorite pastime. If I had a dollar for every time I heard: if we just build this stadium, it will bring jobs and people back to Detroit.
Meanwhile we couldn't get a policeman to our neighborhood unless we threatened to take matters into our own hands. Street lights out, too bad.
Sewers plugged. Your on the list
Basically if the subway would have been built, Detroit would've had a hole in the ground. Maybe that could have been an attraction.

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Originally Posted by GMan

No it doesn't illustrate beyond question that the condition of Detroit is because Coleman didn't get a subway.
Detroit had it's share of federal dollars for projects that went to friends of the mayor. Building that subway wouldn't have changed the fact that people were still moving out. Schools were in a decline. Crime was ramping up. Arson was Detroit's favorite pastime. If I had a dollar for every time I heard: if we just build this stadium, it will bring jobs and people back to Detroit.
Meanwhile we couldn't get a policeman to our neighborhood unless we threatened to take matters into our own hands. Street lights out, too bad.
Sewers plugged. Your on the list
Basically if the subway would have been built, Detroit would've had a hole in the ground. Maybe that could have been an attraction.

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Only problem is if you meant to discount Patterson's avowed racism and substitute it with common sense arguments, it doesn't fly.

The truth is Young wasn't there long enough to have had a cultural economic decline caused by his leadership, and a black urban majority alone. The lack of gelling in the metro community at large is to blame. It had more to do with uncooperative behavior on all counts. You can of course make a point for the African American community's lacking in business and other skills for many social ailments. Historically, you would need to agree to a shared responsibility on the part of whites and blacks for racist and unprogressive agendas that plumbed Detroit. Why not recognize the faults amd move toward betterment? Why harken for a time of miserable conditions by voting for neanderthals like Trump and Patterson? Coleman Young was bitter, but he had more reason to be than any other mayor in the USofA at that time.

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Originally Posted by canuck

Only problem is if you meant to discount Patterson's avowed racism and substitute it with common sense arguments, it doesn't fly.

The truth is Young wasn't there long enough to have had a cultural economic decline caused by his leadership, and a black urban majority alone. The lack of gelling in the metro community at large is to blame. It had more to do with uncooperative behavior on all counts. You can of course make a point for the African American community's lacking in business and other skills for many social ailments. Historically, you would need to agree to a shared responsibility on the part of whites and blacks for racist and unprogressive agendas that plumbed Detroit. Why not recognize the faults amd move toward betterment? Why harken for a time of miserable conditions by voting for neanderthals like Trump and Patterson? Coleman Young was bitter, but he had more reason to be than any other mayor in the USofA at that time.

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Young inherited a declining city but instead of reaching out for a solution, used the caustic situation to further his power and attempt to line his pockets.
Brooks is guilty of using the same situation to build up his county. He was just in a better position to do it at the time. C.Y. had less money to play with and Brooks had a growing revenue base. Can you blame people for wanting to live where they get the services they paid for.
Couple that with other social ailments and you get a bankrupt Detroit.
Pump all the federal dollars you want into it but it was what it was.
I always believed the neighborhoods would save Detroit. But once drugs and other crime invaded those havens, people said ENOUGH is ENOUGH and out they moved. Who cared if a new sports arena was built or if the People mover was built or if Cobo was expanded. Detroit was just a nice place to visit. Not to live.