32 people murdered over 15 day period in Detroit

From article: David Nelson was one of the 32 people killed in Detroit over the last 15 days. It's the largest spike in homicides in as many days in the city's history.
To date, 277 people have been murdered in Detroit compared 259 at this same time last year.

"It's sad. It makes you scared to go outside. It makes you intimidated by everything," Nelson remarked.

The head of homicide, Lieutenant Dwayne Blackmon, said very few cases are random. Many of the murders are fueled by anger. The new, 12-hour police patrol shifts may help by providing more of a police presence to stop the violence from escalating, but he said nothing will really change until people in Detroit stop solving their problems with gun violence.

We're learned there were around 140 shootings during that same 15 day time period.

Nelson, who struggles every day knowing her children will grow up without a father, does feel grateful about one thing. Unlike so many out there, her husband's murder was solved.

"It does make you feel better that the guy's not out there, but it definitely doesn't make it any better," she said.

We're told out of the 32 homicides, twelve cases have been closed.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/19...iod-in-detroit

Unreal. Not much surprises me these days, particularly crime stats, but 32 homicides in 15 days blows my mind.

Per-capita, despite the population decline, Detroit is just as dangerous as, if not more dangerous than, the 1970s.

Wow. Maybe anger management should be a taught in the schools as mandatory class. What the heck can we do about this crazy violent culture going on?! What?!:mad:

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Per-capita, despite the population decline, Detroit is just as dangerous as, if not more dangerous than, the 1970s.

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I would agree. I think the current population estimates are, if anything, high, and I think a huge proportion of crimes are unreported compared to the 70's.

Detroit is probably more dangerous now than at any time in its history.

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Originally Posted by getmoore

Wow. Maybe anger management should be a taught in the schools as mandatory class. What the heck can we do about this crazy violent culture going on?! What?!:mad:

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What can we do? I asked myself that question for many years. Finally I decided that the quality of my life was more important than my loyalty to Detroit and I left 5 months ago.

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Originally Posted by getmoore

Wow. Maybe anger management should be a taught in the schools as mandatory class. What the heck can we do about this crazy violent culture going on?! What?!:mad:

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Agreed, that would at least be a start

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Originally Posted by MidTownMs

What can we do? I asked myself that question for many years. Finally I decided that the quality of my life was more important than my loyalty to Detroit and I left 5 months ago.

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Yes, what CAN we do about it?

The thing about it too is the elements won't disappear once they're finish destroying what's left of Detroit, they'll simply move north and west into the suburbs who are strained budget-wise themselves.

It was obvious the violent crime would not decrease with population loss and the per capita crime rate would jump. After all, it wasn't the violent thugs moving to the burbs for a better life, it was people with jobs and children.

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Originally Posted by 401don

It was obvious the violent crime would not decrease with population loss and the per capita crime rate would jump. After all, it wasn't the violent thugs moving to the burbs for a better life, it was people with jobs and children.

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Agreed.

I do think that this tragic situation can be improved with better, more effective policing. If people were caught for using guns, then they would be deterred from using them. Placing the blame solely on the community is not fair, as both the police and the community must work together to reduce violence.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

Per-capita, despite the population decline, Detroit is just as dangerous as, if not more dangerous than, the 1970s.

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Thinking back to those days, it seemed worse then, primarily because the spike back then was so dramatic. Detroit had cruised along with 1-200 murders a year then suddenly it rose dramatically topping 800 one year.

Detroit in the 1970's was far more economically and ethnically diverse than today. it still had a very large prosperous middle class with the resulting revenues, good schools and other services. Today it is a sea of poverty with islands of prosperity. So comparison needs to be handled with care.

I would bet a scatter chart would show the murders tightly linked to impoverished neighborhoods in both situations. Since there are far more of those now than then, only examination of the murders would reveal if it is truly worse now than back then.

Possibly the worst legacy of the 1967 riot was the proliferation of firearms that followed from the fears it engendered combined with cheap heroin from SE Asia and emergence of a drugs and guns era. Little has changed except the type of drugs and the efficiency of the weapons.

What to do? Maybe they should cut the cops pay another 10% and put them on 18 hour days.

No. This is a state problem, beyond bankrupt Detroit's reach, and emergency law enforcement resources need to be poured in, particularly investigative resources to protect the residents of Michigan. Letting murderers get away with it, as we see in the high rate of unsolved crimes, is fueling this situation. Every murder needs to be thoroughly investigate and the perps hunted down and prosecuted.

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Originally Posted by 401don

It was obvious the violent crime would not decrease with population loss and the per capita crime rate would jump. After all, it wasn't the violent thugs moving to the burbs for a better life, it was people with jobs and children.

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Excellent point. That's why I've always disagreed with anyone who said it makes sense to have a smaller police force since we have a smaller population.

Agreed. Detroit Police' inability to solve nearly half of all homicides has been troubling for at least a decade.

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Originally Posted by getmoore

Wow. Maybe anger management should be a taught in the schools as mandatory class. What the heck can we do about this crazy violent culture going on?! What?!:mad:

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I couldn't agree there is culture violence, the kids are not born violent, but they grow up learning to resolve conflicts in a violent manner. Much like sex education we can leave, conflict resolution to be learned in the streets or the classroom.

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Originally Posted by MSUguy

I couldn't agree there is culture violence, the kids are not born violent, but they grow up learning to resolve conflicts in a violent manner. Much like sex education we can leave, conflict resolution to be learned in the streets or the classroom.

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I never said kids were born violent. And when you say they grow up learning to resolve conflicts in a violent manner that is EXACTLY what I mean by violent culture. Violence is seen as normal within the culture. From little kids being made to fight so they will be "hard" to teaching them to stare people down and to never letting anyone get away with "disrespecting" them. I can go on and on. I've seen it.

help from multiple agencies is needed. but... if the state police were to be "deputized" to investigate detroit violent crime, how much of a turf-war would that create, balking from the detroit brass/commissioners and maybe even city council.. :[[

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

help from multiple agencies is needed. but... if the state police were to be "deputized" to investigate detroit violent crime, how much of a turf-war would that create, balking from the detroit brass/commissioners and maybe even city council.. :[[

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State Police have jurisdiction to investigate crime anywhere in the State of Michigan.

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Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

Agreed. Detroit Police' inability to solve nearly half of all homicides has been troubling for at least a decade.

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http://www.detroityes.com/mb/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Hypestyleshttp://www.detroityes.com/mb/images/...post-right.png
help from multiple agencies is needed. but... if the state police were to be "deputized" to investigate detroit violent crime, how much of a turf-war would that create, balking from the detroit brass/commissioners and maybe even city council.. :[[

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Originally Posted by Wheels

State Police have jurisdiction to investigate crime anywhere in the State of Michigan.

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Really... how much "investigating"/solving is really needed here? I mean, investigations lead to arrests which lead [[sometimes) to jail time. Anyone, anywhere think that any single one of the people whipping out a gun to rectify some "disrespect" or to kill someone over a pair of expensive glasses, or shoes, or cell phone..ect, gives a rats ass about going to jail?

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Originally Posted by MSUguy

I couldn't agree there is culture violence, the kids are not born violent, but they grow up learning to resolve conflicts in a violent manner.

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It's the people at the top that set the tone. When you have leaders who believe that we can bludgeon the world into obedience with a half-dozen wars and occupations, ...

Pick on the Homicide investigators all you want, but if people don't talk, not much gets done. It's very rare that they can make an arrest without witnesses.

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Originally Posted by Wheels

State Police have jurisdiction to investigate crime anywhere in the State of Michigan.

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...so when state troopers and/or wayne co. sheriff cars start becoming the norm in detroit neighborhoods, I'll await the drastic drops in crime stats.. ;)

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Originally Posted by Lowell

Thinking back to those days, it seemed worse then, primarily because the spike back then was so dramatic. Detroit had cruised along with 1-200 murders a year then suddenly it rose dramatically topping 800 one year.

Detroit in the 1970's was far more economically and ethnically diverse than today. it still had a very large prosperous middle class with the resulting revenues, good schools and other services. Today it is a sea of poverty with islands of prosperity. So comparison needs to be handled with care.

I would bet a scatter chart would show the murders tightly linked to impoverished neighborhoods in both situations. Since there are far more of those now than then, only examination of the murders would reveal if it is truly worse now than back then.

Possibly the worst legacy of the 1967 riot was the proliferation of firearms that followed from the fears it engendered combined with cheap heroin from SE Asia and emergence of a drugs and guns era. Little has changed except the type of drugs and the efficiency of the weapons.

What to do? Maybe they should cut the cops pay another 10% and put them on 18 hour days.

No. This is a state problem, beyond bankrupt Detroit's reach, and emergency law enforcement resources need to be poured in, particularly investigative resources to protect the residents of Michigan. Letting murderers get away with it, as we see in the high rate of unsolved crimes, is fueling this situation. Every murder needs to be thoroughly investigate and the perps hunted down and prosecuted.

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Well then maybe the city just needs more talented cops. Remember the fireworks evening shooting at Hart Plaza several years back? The Detroit Police had a lot of witnesses to that one [[hundreds of thousands) and they couldn't come up with anything.

Just think if they included the suburbs. There were several over the same time period.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It's the people at the top that set the tone. When you have leaders who believe that we can bludgeon the world into obedience with a half-dozen wars and occupations, ...

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Sure. Detroit's thugs are thuggish because they're such close followers of foreign affairs. You see them rolling through the ghetto on their 22" rims, blasting BBC World News and the Diane Rehm Show through their subwoofers.

Yeah the detail, politics and epistemological, existential reasoning or reasons why are not top of mind for that segment. Let the social intellectuals continue to 'study'... on it....

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Originally Posted by Det_ard

Sure. Detroit's thugs are thuggish because they're such close followers of foreign affairs. You see them rolling through the ghetto on their 22" rims, blasting BBC World News and the Diane Rehm Show through their subwoofers.

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Originally Posted by softailrider

Well then maybe the city just needs more talented cops. Remember the fireworks evening shooting at Hart Plaza several years back? The Detroit Police had a lot of witnesses to that one [[hundreds of thousands) and they couldn't come up with anything.

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You won't get them until you start paying people. No one wants to start a law enforcement career here. Too many issues, not enough pay.

Did you read Detroit Blogger's article in the Metro Times last week about the little retro candy store on the upper East Side ? The minister store-owner describes the neighborhood culture of sleeping most of the day, hungry kids not in school wandering in because she will feed them, how the kids have no life-skills as she observes them, how her best customers are drug users because, for some reason, they like candy, etc.
How in the world will better policing save our neighborhoods and city from that generation of unparented, unschooled, unprepared to work or be parents themselves?

You have to be extra careful nowadays. 15 years ago, a million residents and more money around. More potential victims. 2012 the victim pool has shrunk.

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Originally Posted by SWMAP

Did you read Detroit Blogger's article in the Metro Times last week about the little retro candy store on the upper East Side ? The minister store-owner describes the neighborhood culture of sleeping most of the day, hungry kids not in school wandering in because she will feed them, how the kids have no life-skills as she observes them, how her best customers are drug users because, for some reason, they like candy, etc.
How in the world will better policing save our neighborhoods and city from that generation of unparented, unschooled, unprepared to work or be parents themselves?

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Great point at the end there. How many cops do you really need when people are going to kill and live a criminal lifestyle no matter what? It's a lifestyle these people live, they just don't give a shit. Now I know there are more good than bad people in Detroit, at least I hope so, and that it's the good people that are crying out for help, but it's their own neighbors that are the problem. If these people can't respect their neighbors how are they going to respect cops?

"Great point at the end there. How many cops do you really need when people are going to kill and live a criminal lifestyle no matter what? It's a lifestyle these people live, they just don't give a shit. Now I know there are more good than bad people in Detroit, at least I hope so, and that it's the good people that are crying out for help, but it's their own neighbors that are the problem. If these people can't respect their neighbors how are they going to respect cops? "

Though I totally agree with your post and SWMAP's, the point of police is to secure the area. The kids that have been brought up with good values, or have figured it out for themselves, make it and move on. They don't want to deal with the "Hood" anymore. They want to be left alone to live the life they're carving out for themselves, in peace. That's why Detroit looks the way it does today. Some people refer to this as "abandoning Detroit", some people feel they've been driven out.

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Originally Posted by Detroitnerd

It's the people at the top that set the tone. When you have leaders who believe that we can bludgeon the world into obedience with a half-dozen wars and occupations, ...

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So when people in Detroit murder each other over personal beefs or drugs, it's because George Bush invaded Iraq?

Ok then.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

"Great point at the end there. How many cops do you really need when people are going to kill and live a criminal lifestyle no matter what? It's a lifestyle these people live, they just don't give a shit. Now I know there are more good than bad people in Detroit, at least I hope so, and that it's the good people that are crying out for help, but it's their own neighbors that are the problem. If these people can't respect their neighbors how are they going to respect cops? "

Though I totally agree with your post and SWMAP's, the point of police is to secure the area. The kids that have been brought up with good values, or have figured it out for themselves, make it and move on. They don't want to deal with the "Hood" anymore. They want to be left alone to live the life they're carving out for themselves, in peace. That's why Detroit looks the way it does today. Some people refer to this as "abandoning Detroit", some people feel they've been driven out.

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I shouldn't minimize police involvement so much because you are right, they would help if there were far more of them and it seems the forces that are in place have some impact. But it's almost like the awful part of the population needs to weed themselves out while hopefully not destroying too many others lives' in their path.

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Originally Posted by aj3647

So when people in Detroit murder each other over personal beefs or drugs, it's because George Bush invaded Iraq?

Ok then.

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No Nerd blames Richard Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and the Cambodian incursion. That is when it all started.

What? You mean the Detroit 300 hasn't solved all these problems??!!!!!??/

Make that 33

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Originally Posted by Hermod

No Nerd blames Richard Nixon, Henry Kissinger, and the Cambodian incursion. That is when it all started.

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Those readers less reflexively dismissive might want to read

• CIA and Contras cocaine trafficking in the US
• Dark Alliance

and form their own conclusions.

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Let me be frank about what we are finding. There are instances where CIA did not, in an expeditious or consistent fashion, cut off relationships with individuals supporting the Contra program who were alleged to have engaged in drug trafficking activity or take action to resolve the allegations.

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Hitz also testified that the CIA did not "expeditiously" cut off relations with alleged drug traffickers.

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Frederick Hitz was the CIA Inspector General and it's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that there was an elaborate attempt at a coverup.

Perhaps it due to the fact that the dems have over promised and under delivered?

Neither partisan rubric fully explain the lawlessness that is increasing. Both have had some impact at certain levels however.

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Originally Posted by aj3647

So when people in Detroit murder each other over personal beefs or drugs, it's because George Bush invaded Iraq?

Ok then.

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The state should invest in boarding schools instead of ghetto hoodrats raising another generation of hoodlums!

More police is not the answer. Its just not that simple. Many of you equate more police with reduction in violent crime and I don’t see that as being the case. About the only thing more police presence can do is stop crimes among crowds in public venues. What you want from police is a quick response during or after a crime and a speedy arrest after you been a victim. But its still after the fact the deed has already been done. The key is the quote from the The head of homicide, Lieutenant Dwayne Blackmon in the first post which he said very few cases are random
And that they are fueled by anger. I would venture a guess that the anger is either a domestic dispute or has something to do with drugs and I don’t know what affect more police would have.
What needs to happen to bring violent crime down are a number of things some of which people might find distasteful
1) Drugs need to be de-criminalized – In Detroit drugs are an industry as real as the auto industry with money to be made a whole lot of different ways. The profit must be taken out of it. Unlike legit industries killings are a way to handle disputes and competition.
2) We need full employment or something close to it in the city
3) Access to guns must be limited- You have many people with anger management issues and a gun is too easy to get and use. Plus they feel they have nothing to lose.
4) If you use the 80-20 rule target the 20% by enforcing the curfew and loitering laws in a big way
Generally when you have a spike in crimes like in the 80’s when Detroit had all the murders you can pretty guess that a drug war is going on. I don’t know what more police could have done to stop that.

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Originally Posted by Jimaz

Those readers less reflexively dismissive might want to read

• CIA and Contras cocaine trafficking in the US
• Dark Alliance

and form their own conclusions.

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Its been said that Freeway Ricky Ross the LA drug kingpin who had ties to the Contras did business with some of the Detroit drug gangs.

Why would de-crimilizing drugs be a solution. There is already a large demographic of people who don't get up in the morning for the kids, who don't go to school, who will never get a job, who will always be stealing utilities and water and selling their food stamps. Some drugs would get cheaper and fewer people will be arrested - but maybe the de-criminilation solution will just lead to a bigger democratic in Detroit who will still prey on kids in Grosse Pointe who have iPhones.

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Originally Posted by SWMAP

Why would de-crimilizing drugs be a solution. There is already a large demographic of people who don't get up in the morning for the kids, who don't go to school, who will never get a job, who will always be stealing utilities and water and selling their food stamps. Some drugs would get cheaper and fewer people will be arrested - but maybe the de-criminilation solution will just lead to a bigger democratic in Detroit who will still prey on kids in Grosse Pointe who have iPhones.

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Good point.

People also tend to underestimate how much of Detroit's economy is dependent on illegal drug money.

Although they may not pay taxes, their money still spends at businesses in the city.

I don't think that just putting more cops on the force is alone the fix for Detroit's crime problem, but it certainly is part of the solution. Right now there aren't even enough cops to respond to 911 calls in a timely matter.

While more police officers on patrol won't prevent the homicide that results from two women arguing over the same guy or one drug dealer trying to cheat another on the price of a few ounces, more officers on the force, properly deployed, certainly increases the effectiveness of police response to crime. More cops on patrol means a 911 call reporting shots fired might get a quicker response and lead to an arrest rather than the perpetrator being on the other side of town by the time the police arrive. More detectives on the force might mean fewer cases being juggled by one detective, allowing some actual investigation to be done.

One reason crime is so brazen these days is because there is so little fear of consequences among criminals. You kill someone in Detroit and you have a 50% chance of getting away with it. 911 response is so slow I imagine most criminals figure they can break in a house, set off the alarm, and still get a pretty good haul before the police show up.

Yes, issues of employment, community outreach, parental involvement, etc., all play a role in reducing crime. But don't overlook the role that enforcement and, yes, punishment, play in the equation.

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Originally Posted by SWMAP

Why would de-crimilizing drugs be a solution. There is already a large demographic of people who don't get up in the morning for the kids, who don't go to school, who will never get a job, who will always be stealing utilities and water and selling their food stamps. Some drugs would get cheaper and fewer people will be arrested - but maybe the de-criminilation solution will just lead to a bigger democratic in Detroit who will still prey on kids in Grosse Pointe who have iPhones.

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You make some good points. You can do one of two things with drugs, you either prosecute and jail your way out of the problem, or you take the profit out of it. We all know how the first option or the "war on drugs" is going.

However if you do that you must replace it with something thats why there needs to be something close to full employment, or everyone who wants a job can find a job. In some areas in Detroit if there wasn't welfare or drugs that area would have no economy to speak of. You need to understand that in some areas of Detroit drugs are not a hobby it is a full blown economic necessity bringing all the crap that comes along with it.

Now using the 80-20 rule you have that 20% [[actually less) that are part of the criminal class. No matter what you do these people aren't going to do right. The criminal justice system needs to come down on the worst of these people as hard as legally possible. If we could take the profits out of the drugs then we would have more room in the jails and prisons for the Iphone thieves

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Originally Posted by Motor City Sam

I don't think that just putting more cops on the force is alone the fix for Detroit's crime problem, but it certainly is part of the solution. Right now there aren't even enough cops to respond to 911 calls in a timely matter.

While more police officers on patrol won't prevent the homicide that results from two women arguing over the same guy or one drug dealer trying to cheat another on the price of a few ounces, more officers on the force, properly deployed, certainly increases the effectiveness of police response to crime. More cops on patrol means a 911 call reporting shots fired might get a quicker response and lead to an arrest rather than the perpetrator being on the other side of town by the time the police arrive. More detectives on the force might mean fewer cases being juggled by one detective, allowing some actual investigation to be done.

One reason crime is so brazen these days is because there is so little fear of consequences among criminals. You kill someone in Detroit and you have a 50% chance of getting away with it. 911 response is so slow I imagine most criminals figure they can break in a house, set off the alarm, and still get a pretty good haul before the police show up.

Yes, issues of employment, community outreach, parental involvement, etc., all play a role in reducing crime. But don't overlook the role that enforcement and, yes, punishment, play in the equation.

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You are right, you do need more police on patrol. I am questioning convention wisdom that more cops=less crime because I just don't think that is true. Much depends on how they are deployed and what departments they are put in [[homicide would seen to need more people but all police officiers aren't good in that particular area).

I would bet that the police brass would tell you their response time to major crimes is competitive with other major cities, and it probably is. So the question is how many police do you need to see in order to see a significant reduction in crime. I doubt if anyone knows that answer except the police union who of course wants to see their ranks swell.

You are again correct about criminals being brazen about their crimes. However that is as much about the criminal justice system as it is about law enforcement. These guys bond out because of lack of room in the jails and while out they continue to commit crimes, so yes they are brazen because the odds are in their favor. More police won't necessary help that. So while yes, we can use more police I'm not buying into the CW that more police automatically means less crime.

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Originally Posted by firstandten

You are right, you do need more police on patrol. I am questioning convention wisdom that more cops=less crime because I just don't think that is true. Much depends on how they are deployed and what departments they are put in [[homicide would seen to need more people but all police officiers aren't good in that particular area).

I would bet that the police brass would tell you their response time to major crimes is competitive with other major cities, and it probably is. So the question is how many police do you need to see in order to see a significant reduction in crime. I doubt if anyone knows that answer except the police union who of course wants to see their ranks swell.

You are again correct about criminals being brazen about their crimes. However that is as much about the criminal justice system as it is about law enforcement. These guys bond out because of lack of room in the jails and while out they continue to commit crimes, so yes they are brazen because the odds are in their favor. More police won't necessary help that. So while yes, we can use more police I'm not buying into the CW that more police automatically means less crime.

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Definitely the proper deployment of additional officers is key. Adding guys to the City council protection detail or the Mayor's security staff sure won't help. :-) I'd like to see more officers properly deployed to neighborhood patrol, narcotics, Violent Crimes Task Force, even the SWAT team, which I have heard is understaffed. I can remember when there were 5,000 cops on the DPD. I think it's less than half that now.

And it's true that not all police officers would make good homicide detectives, but given the lack of officers we have, the pool to draw from is that much smaller.

I also think there is such a lack of concern about getting arrested that most criminals aren't even worried about what might happen in front of a judge. But you are right about failure of the criminal justice system.

I think you and I are mostly in agreement on this topic, so I don't mean to come across as if I'm arguing with you.

By chance I just heard Kym Worthy say on the radio that the DPD does not even send officers out to breaking and entering complaints, meaning no evidence is taken and no investigation is taking place. Not sure how long that has been going on. Back in 2008 when someone broke into my home while I was at work, the cops came out. Then again, they were called by by my neighbor who is retired DPD, so that may have made a difference.

Motor City Sam we are mostly in agreement, I felt I needed to clarify some of the points I made in the earlier post.

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Originally Posted by firstandten

Motor City Sam we are mostly in agreement, I felt I needed to clarify some of the points I made in the earlier post.

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Understood. Thanks for the clarifications.

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Originally Posted by firstandten

More police is not the answer. Its just not that simple. Many of you equate more police with reduction in violent crime and I don’t see that as being the case. About the only thing more police presence can do is stop crimes among crowds in public venues. What you want from police is a quick response during or after a crime and a speedy arrest after you been a victim. But its still after the fact the deed has already been done. The key is the quote from the The head of homicide, Lieutenant Dwayne Blackmon in the first post which he said very few cases are random
And that they are fueled by anger. I would venture a guess that the anger is either a domestic dispute or has something to do with drugs and I don’t know what affect more police would have.
What needs to happen to bring violent crime down are a number of things some of which people might find distasteful
1) Drugs need to be de-criminalized – In Detroit drugs are an industry as real as the auto industry with money to be made a whole lot of different ways. The profit must be taken out of it. Unlike legit industries killings are a way to handle disputes and competition.
2) We need full employment or something close to it in the city
3) Access to guns must be limited- You have many people with anger management issues and a gun is too easy to get and use. Plus they feel they have nothing to lose.
4) If you use the 80-20 rule target the 20% by enforcing the curfew and loitering laws in a big way
Generally when you have a spike in crimes like in the 80’s when Detroit had all the murders you can pretty guess that a drug war is going on. I don’t know what more police could have done to stop that.

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The hardest thing will be #2...how do you bring new jobs to the area?

I hear you guys saying that more cops, vice, swat, etc. are needed, and I agree we need more beat cops, but I can't help but notice the amount of police that drive right by the open air drug market and pirate hooker collaborative in my boyfriends neighborhood without so much as a nod. The police presence has increased, but their willingness to do anything about the crime hasn't.

And if they do stop, its usually to harass someone who wasn't doing anything other than minding their own business.

There have been two murders and almost a dozen shootings in that hood since July. A guy was shot 10 times sitting on his couch in a driveby just 2 weeks ago. He lived. My boyfriend was caught in the line of fire of a shootout coming home from work last week, by some dumbass who was literally hanging out of the driverside window of his bright red car [[complete with chrome rims) swerving and hitting everything BUT the car he was gunnin for. He hit some good people's cars and a house with kids in it though. My guy is fine, albeit the tore up knees. When the cops showed up, they asked the neighbors what happened. They took no report, there was no attempt to collect evidence, and the next day the street was glittering with casings.

I feel for the DPD, and what they are going through. It's bullshit that they are forced to do so much with so little. I wouldn't blame them if they all walked away and left the city to self destruct. But I just. can't. handle. watching the NE precinct treat these good people in that God forsaken neighborhood the way they do.

I hate those cops. I can't help it.

That's why those who can leave.

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Originally Posted by Patrick

The hardest thing will be #2...how do you bring new jobs to the area?

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Short answer you have to incentivize companies to the extent that it would be dirt cheap for them to do business in Detroit. But in actuallity all four points are incredibly difficult and requires a political will not yet seen at the local,state or national level.

I don't mean to sound cruel, but the lumpen proletariat never sleeps. In 1974 when I was living on Delaware and Second in the New Center area there were, what, over 700 homicides.

I maintain that male lack of esteem fueled by periods of high self-esteem are one of the reasons for such mayhem. And a large part of that is because so many males are raised by mothers only. Where are the men? Ask those around you if they are fathering kids and not supporting them.

The church in Detroit and elsewhere needs to address the prevalence of homes with no fathers present.

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Originally Posted by Al Publican

I don't mean to sound cruel, but the lumpen proletariat never sleeps. In 1974 when I was living on Delaware and Second in the New Center area there were, what, over 700 homicides.

I maintain that male lack of esteem fueled by periods of high self-esteem are one of the reasons for such mayhem. And a large part of that is because so many males are raised by mothers only. Where are the men? Ask those around you if they are fathering kids and not supporting them.

The church in Detroit and elsewhere needs to address the prevalence of homes with no fathers present.

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What you say is true, I would go even further and maintain that much of the mayhem is related to the drug culture beginning to take hold in the city. After all it was only 7 years after the riots. Drugs, while always alround seen to become more plentiful after the riots. But you are correct, its related anger management issues are all related to a lack of self esteem, a self hatred from being at the bottom of the economic totem pole since slavery.

Yep, the LUMP never really seems to sleep!

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Originally Posted by Al Publican

I don't mean to sound cruel, but the lumpen proletariat never sleeps. In 1974 when I was living on Delaware and Second in the New Center area there were, what, over 700 homicides.

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This starts in the Home too many broken families were no one is raising the children . Drugs are out of control , kids are being left to raise themselves .
It doesn't help that the city and city council , are so inpet and nitpicking over who's going to run Belle isle , instead of figuring out how to put more police on the street .
With the money they saved by leasing Bell isle they can put to more police !

Someone needs to come right out and ask Godbee and Bing why the new Police recruits [[33) are only out there to "be a presence", to be "visible", downtown only. Ask him why his recruits are not getting the proper, prompt training from instructors to get these officers out on the streets. Ask him why the new recruits are told to "not get involved" unless absolutely necessary or just write parking tickets. Ask him why half the class is sitting at the practically empty training academy manning the phones and the other half is at the Atwater Precinct downtown. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been invested in these new recruits to give them the best possible start towards becoming a Detroit Police Officer and then for months they have been getting very little "on the job" training...nothing to get them up and running immediately. The new, lean, strong, gung ho recruits are getting fat because the City is not utilizing them as they should. There are a lot of unanswered questions that Godbee needs to answer.
These officers want to make a big difference in Detroit and should be properly trained to do the job to the best of their abilities...be out there to help get Detroit back on track.
Then....the next thing to do is for parents of kids running the streets at all hours need to rein them in, take the responsibility of raising them back. Why is a 14 year old running around with a gun? Where is my 14 year old? Was he in his bed last night? Did he do his homework? Was he even in school today?
I am getting sick and tired of watching the news every day and the murder rate is going up, this month is the beginning. Someone has to be responsible for this and it starts with Mom and Dad, not Auntie, not Grandma, not the church. There is NO ONE to blame but themselves for this out of control crime and murder going on in Detroit. Start turning people in that you know are out there to do others harm. Take a stand and stop this maddness!!!

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Originally Posted by detroitsgwenivere

I hear you guys saying that more cops, vice, swat, etc. are needed, and I agree we need more beat cops, but I can't help but notice the amount of police that drive right by the open air drug market and pirate hooker collaborative in my boyfriends neighborhood without so much as a nod. The police presence has increased, but their willingness to do anything about the crime hasn't.

And if they do stop, its usually to harass someone who wasn't doing anything other than minding their own business.

There have been two murders and almost a dozen shootings in that hood since July. A guy was shot 10 times sitting on his couch in a driveby just 2 weeks ago. He lived. My boyfriend was caught in the line of fire of a shootout coming home from work last week, by some dumbass who was literally hanging out of the driverside window of his bright red car [[complete with chrome rims) swerving and hitting everything BUT the car he was gunnin for. He hit some good people's cars and a house with kids in it though. My guy is fine, albeit the tore up knees. When the cops showed up, they asked the neighbors what happened. They took no report, there was no attempt to collect evidence, and the next day the street was glittering with casings.

I feel for the DPD, and what they are going through. It's bullshit that they are forced to do so much with so little. I wouldn't blame them if they all walked away and left the city to self destruct. But I just. can't. handle. watching the NE precinct treat these good people in that God forsaken neighborhood the way they do.

I hate those cops. I can't help it.

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DetroitsGwenivere, I certainly understand your frustration and I felt the same frustration when I would see guys openly selling drugs when I would visit my ex girlfriend in the North End. The sight of people openly breaking the law like that without fear of consequences drives me crazy.

The way the DPD operates these days frustrates me, but I save my hate for the actual criminals dealing dope and shooting up the neighborhood.

I'll bet the DPD leadership has decided that shootings without victims are in the same category as B&E's and get hardly any real attention. And that says a lot about the lack of effectiveness of the department. It's an unacceptable situation.

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Originally Posted by cla1945

Someone needs to come right out and ask Godbee and Bing why the new Police recruits [[33) are only out there to "be a presence", to be "visible", downtown only. Ask him why his recruits are not getting the proper, prompt training from instructors to get these officers out on the streets. Ask him why the new recruits are told to "not get involved" unless absolutely necessary or just write parking tickets. Ask him why half the class is sitting at the practically empty training academy manning the phones and the other half is at the Atwater Precinct downtown. Hundreds of thousands of dollars have been invested in these new recruits to give them the best possible start towards becoming a Detroit Police Officer and then for months they have been getting very little "on the job" training...nothing to get them up and running immediately. The new, lean, strong, gung ho recruits are getting fat because the City is not utilizing them as they should. There are a lot of unanswered questions that Godbee needs to answer.
These officers want to make a big difference in Detroit and should be properly trained to do the job to the best of their abilities...be out there to help get Detroit back on track.
Then....the next thing to do is for parents of kids running the streets at all hours need to rein them in, take the responsibility of raising them back. Why is a 14 year old running around with a gun? Where is my 14 year old? Was he in his bed last night? Did he do his homework? Was he even in school today?
I am getting sick and tired of watching the news every day and the murder rate is going up, this month is the beginning. Someone has to be responsible for this and it starts with Mom and Dad, not Auntie, not Grandma, not the church. There is NO ONE to blame but themselves for this out of control crime and murder going on in Detroit. Start turning people in that you know are out there to do others harm. Take a stand and stop this maddness!!!

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Or why is it, if you need a cop in Detroit, you have to go to a Tigers, Lions, or Red Wings, [[Oh My), game. There are half a dozen on each corner. Detroiters, [[that do), pay taxes, visitors get protection. I guess I just don't generate the revenue Illitch does.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Or why is it, if you need a cop in Detroit, you have to go to a Tigers, Lions, or Red Wings, [[Oh My), game. There are half a dozen on each corner. Detroiters, [[that do), pay taxes, visitors get protection. I guess I just don't generate the revenue Illitch does.

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I see what you did there. Well played Sir.

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Originally Posted by cla1945

Then....the next thing to do is for parents of kids running the streets at all hours need to rein them in, take the responsibility of raising them back. Why is a 14 year old running around with a gun? Where is my 14 year old? Was he in his bed last night? Did he do his homework? Was he even in school today?
I am getting sick and tired of watching the news every day and the murder rate is going up, this month is the beginning. Someone has to be responsible for this and it starts with Mom and Dad, not Auntie, not Grandma, not the church. There is NO ONE to blame but themselves for this out of control crime and murder going on in Detroit. Start turning people in that you know are out there to do others harm. Take a stand and stop this maddness!!!

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I have been maintaining in posts on various threads concerning this topic is that the loitering and curfew laws need to be enforced and strengthen. After 9 or 10 pm on the weekdays the city should be on lock down. teenagers or anybody that looks like a teenager needs to be stopped, questioned and possiblity ticketed if out after curfew. We need to extend this to a parental responsiblity ordinance no matter if the kid is raised by a parent, parents or relatives. There is too much hanging out in the streets at the party store, at the gas station at the coney island you name it after dark. I would include fines and jail time as well.

Once the folks start throwing in their hats to run for mayor next year that is an issue I will try and address at the meet the candidates night, and the person who will get my vote and I don't care if that person is white is the person who has the best[[workable) plan for a overall reduction of crime at least in the areas they can control and not the political spin we are use to hearing

I believe that an article stated over 75% of violent crime and murders is directly related to drugs. It's just so depressing to see these figures when there is so much positive news in downtown and midtown. Every city has problems, but for the amount of residents in Detroit, it's really hard to quantify those murder statistics. Detroit had over 700 in the early 70's, but the population was what, a little over 1 million?

It's gonna be cold soon, murders should go down.

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Originally Posted by mikeg19

Detroit had over 700 in the early 70's, but the population was what, a little over 1 million?

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Detroit had over 1.5 million residents per the 1970 Census. It had over 1.2 million residents per the 1980 Census.

So Detroit probably had 1.4 million residents, more or less, if looking at the early 70's. This probably means Detroit was safer then than now.

Bow and arrow season opens October 1 and rifle season November 15. God help us!

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Or why is it, if you need a cop in Detroit, you have to go to a Tigers, Lions, or Red Wings, [[Oh My), game. There are half a dozen on each corner. Detroiters, [[that do), pay taxes, visitors get protection. I guess I just don't generate the revenue Illitch does.

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Well if citizens started getting slaughtered going to Tiger and Lion's games that wouldn't be good.

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Originally Posted by Bham1982

Detroit had over 1.5 million residents per the 1970 Census. It had over 1.2 million residents per the 1980 Census.

So Detroit probably had 1.4 million residents, more or less, if looking at the early 70's. This probably means Detroit was safer then than now.

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Yes.

You always have to look at the per-capita numbers to get a real idea of how dangerous or safe a city is [[in addition to emergency response times)

Chicago and New York may have a higher absolute number of crimes, but their per-capita numbers are usually around 20 per 100,000 people. The police and ambulance will always show up in a reasonable time too.

Detroit's per-capita numbers, like in the 1970s, is well into the 40s now, which is ridiculous for a 1st world major city. Assuming there are any ambulances or police cruisers available to dispatch, expect to wait at least 30 minutes to them to arrive if you're the victim of a crime.

Its pretty disconcerting that crime is so high. It probably wont get much better anytime soon. Problems are too complex. Whats equally troubling is the police have made it clear that you cant expect them to show up for property crime, home invasion, things of that nature. Effectively residents are on their own... but dont take matters into your own hands and end up like that fella on the east side. House gets robbed a bunch and finally he catches someone red handed. Shoots and gets sent to prison. Prosecutors office is after him again. Dont expect fast response to major crime either. Unless you live downtown or near WSU.

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Originally Posted by rex

Its pretty disconcerting that crime is so high. It probably wont get much better anytime soon. Problems are too complex. Whats equally troubling is the police have made it clear that you cant expect them to show up for property crime, home invasion, things of that nature. Effectively residents are on their own... but dont take matters into your own hands and end up like that fella on the east side. House gets robbed a bunch and finally he catches someone red handed. Shoots and gets sent to prison. Prosecutors office is after him again. Dont expect fast response to major crime either. Unless you live downtown or near WSU.

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Yes, and folks wonder why people rather vote with there feet rather than with the ballot when it comes to Detroit

Seems like every day since that report there have been 2 or 3 homicides. Thats not normal. Not even by Detroit standards. 2 a day everyday and now were talking 1970s numbers. 3 a day is headed in the direction of Juarez

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Originally Posted by rex

Seems like every day since that report there have been 2 or 3 homicides. Thats not normal. Not even by Detroit standards. 2 a day everyday and now were talking 1970s numbers. 3 a day is headed in the direction of Juarez

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Saigon was safer during the Vietnam War.

All the crime, murders and Angel night around the corner, better role those tanks and call. The National Guard, dpd can't or won't handle it,