An Auto Epcot for Downtown Detroit?

Dan Gilbert keeps stirring the pot. The Freep's Tom Walsh now reports that he is behind an idea for creating an Automotive-Themed Park in Downtown Detroit. [Link to full article]

I am guessing one of the first thoughts that crossed your minds, it did mine, was Flint's disastrous AutoWorld upon which downtown Flint pinned its hopes in the 1980's declining auto years.

So what do you think? Could this work with Gilbert's money and drive behind it? I gottta figure out where this guy is buying his coffee. He is a juggernaut of energy.

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"Let's be frank and honest," Gilbert said in an interview, "Detroit blew it for decades and decades when it came to leveraging the sexiness of the automobile."

..."I would think it should be downtown. You could build something as big as an Epcot Center," the 300-acre theme park at Walt Disney World in Orlando.

"It could be something of that magnitude," Gilbert added, encompassing the past, present and future of the automobile, with opportunities to drive cool vehicles on paved tracks and off-road courses. "It's just endless what you could do."

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Looking for a job and know something about cars? Here is your dream job.

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On Jan. 5, under his Twitter username @cavsdan, Gilbert posted the following two-part Tweet: "I am looking for the most creative, knowledgeable and experienced 'Car Guy' in the world who knows & lives cutting edge car design ... who knows racing, custom cars, etc., & loves cars! He/She also loves technology but above all is a big time visionary. You know this guy?"

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Very cool - gotta love the creative thinking and I'd love to see something like this.

I've also really wanted to see a museum downtown showcasing our proud musical heritage in SE Michigan. I know we have the Motown Museum, but it'd be great to show off our favorite sons and daughters from a wide-range of music...Eminem, Madonna, Bob Seger, Iggy Pop, Techno, The White Stripes, Kid Rock...have a Motown section...etc...

I always wondered why they didn't have a statue of a giant piston instead of a fist downtown.

Other random out of the box thinking...

I was standing along the river this summer in Hart Plaza looking out towards Belle Isle. Made me think how could it would've been/would be to have a giant, iconic structure on the island. Something like the St. Louis Arch - showing the US/Canada "linked" together...great observation deck viewing downtown, into both countries, and out into Lake St. Clair. I know we have no money and I have no idea what this would look like [[obviously would want it to be unique), but thought I'd throw it out there...you could still maintain the beauty of the park with something iconic on there...

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Originally Posted by stinkytofu

I've also really wanted to see a museum downtown showcasing our proud musical heritage in SE Michigan. I know we have the Motown Museum, but it'd be great to show off our favorite sons and daughters from a wide-range of music...Eminem, Madonna, Bob Seger, Iggy Pop, Techno, The White Stripes, Kid Rock...have a Motown section...etc...

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Make sure you check out the new music wing of the Detroit Historical Museum if you haven't already. While I agree with you about wanting a standalone place, they did a pretty good job with this. And as a non-native to Michigan, it was mind-blowing to see how many well-known and influential musicians hailed from this region.

hopefully the investors will line up, but it may end up a political nightmare if it has to navigate through the city of Detroit's current ongoing financial problems, especially if there ends up being an emergency manager or bankruptcy. Also the challenge of assembling contiguous plots of land to build on-- especially if the concept involves a self-contained driving path-- already the Hantz farms project faced a series of stark challenges in its proposal, as does currently Michigan State University.. We'll see what happens-- if anything.

As mentioned in the article. Should something like this get developed, the owners should study autoworld in Flint. I made it there the year it opened. It was no Disneyland. http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com...k.aspx?id=1309

Possible locations for minimal disturbance of population could be
- Near East Side
- Fairgrounds
- Brightmoor

Heck just read DetroitWorks!

Well this is not to dump on Flint, but it was hardly the tourist destination that Detroit is, and can be. With the three casinos, and the cultural attractions that can anchor a project like this, I say Hell Yes!


I can even imagine a lot of car collectors in the metro would donate some of their vehicles for a major impulse, not to mention the corporate imput that could generate this sort of effort. I wonder why it isnt already there to be honest. Detroit's region has to become united behind this sort of thing and bring back the pride of being the center of the auto universe; because it is in everybody else's mind.

I like the fact that Gilbert tweeted his intention to find the best candidate for this, it's refreshing; he wants greatness for his city and he is doing the best he can to repair some of the damage done over 60 years. Detroit is the Motor City.

The fairgrounds would've made for a good area for this project. The Woodward cruise could start in Pontiac and then end at the park.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Possible locations for minimal disturbance of population could be
- Near East Side
- Fairgrounds
- Brightmoor

Heck just read DetroitWorks!

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I think near East Side or Fairgrounds makes most sense. Putting it downtown in the square mile doesn't seem like a great idea.

I agree with Canuck. Flint is too small and far too out of the way for anyone to go there for an auto museum. Detroit is Much closer to other mid-sized cities, and is already [[becoming) much more of a destination.

Personally I would like it to go on the largest of the potential hockey arena sites... the Midtown site... from Woodward westward... if Ilitch can do the Red Wing Arena behind the Fox. There's a lot of space behind the Fox that could potentially handle Ilitch's grand idea... especially if they were to [[as Gnome mentioned) included the Tuller Hotel site, and points westward to Grand River.

There is so much empty land in the Midtown area west of Woodward, that a large auto related theme area could extend as far as Masonic Temple and MotorCity Casino... if need be.

I would rather see the Ilitch plan as more high density behind the Fox... than as a spread out "mall type" area in west Midtown. Having both ideas work together would be a win-win for both Downtown and Midtown. Having JUST a Midtown arena et al... would leave too much emptiness in the NW downtown area.

And the location for an Auto type theme park area should be near a freeway anyway... especially if you want to coax out of towners to big bad Detroit...

But... the 800 lb. gorilla in all these ideas is that Eminent Domain cannot be used... therefore every one of these projects is at the mercy of land speculators... :eek:

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I think near East Side or Fairgrounds makes most sense. Putting it downtown in the square mile doesn't seem like a great idea.

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There's plenty of surface parking lots on the eastside of Downtown, not to mention Gilbert's acquiring of Greektown Casino & Hotel. There's plenty of land from Ford Field to Greektown, even down to the Monroe block. It's possible


http://realadvertising.cc/DesignDetr...ownParking.jpg

Red is all surface parking lots, orange is parking garages, blue is the new "Z" retail garage.


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2QJx-4duUw...ingOverlay.png

How about incorporating a Hot Wheels Interactive Museum, like the one in L.A.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6vjnrHuT41r8hpr6.png

This is so early in the conceptual phase that suggesting a site before we have any idea what may be built is unrealistic. Anything that includes a track where you drive vehicles would require several acres.

I think these are great ideas, and have been advocating for them myself for several years. When I was in college, students would design all types of amusement and driving parks, museums, creative dense living spaces with auto and music themes, high-tech sustainable living projects that could help our autocentric region keep it's car-crazy culture while helping to curb pollution and keep down public cost. Go to any gathering of average people where cars or music is the theme, and you will hear lots of grand ideas like these where our city's legacy could be celebrated, enjoyed by and preserved for future generations. Money, perception, and followthrough seem to be the biggest hinderances to their progression. And in the future, landhoarders will become a large problem as well.

Detroit folks surely know how many more suburban folks and tourists would visit our city if we had more interactive attractions for them, and how much more money and jobs would be pouring into the region as a result.

I vote for an auto museum, but am leary of a theme park per say.

Check out Dubai's attempt:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_World

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attractio...Abu_Dhabi.html

The rides were designed by a Cincinnati firm.

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Originally Posted by hybridy

I vote for an auto museum, but am leary of a theme park per say.

Check out Dubai's attempt:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrari_World

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g294013-d1940985-Reviews-Ferrari_World_Abu_Dhabi-Abu_Dhabi_Emirate_of_Abu_Dhabi.html

The rides were designed by a Cincinnati firm.

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I wouldn't mind a roller coaster downtown, deeping and diving through buildings downtown. Greektown district is perfect for something like that, connecting the ride to different buildings pertaining to the Automobile Musuem in the area. I'm not a fan of how big the Ferrari World is, super block. We can break up the building into different spots around Greektown, replacing surface parking lots with his plans. Just a idea..

http://image.shutterstock.com/displa...n-94829815.jpg

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Originally Posted by 401don

This is so early in the conceptual phase that suggesting a site before we have any idea what may be built is unrealistic. Anything that includes a track where you drive vehicles would require several acres.

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Something similar to what Mercedes set up in England on a former race course coupled with a world class Automobile Museum would seem to be in order. See link: http://www2.mercedes-benz.co.uk/cont...periences.html

It'll have to be more than a racecourse and an auto museum in order for it to be a family outting....

I think having a good automotive museum/park in Detroit is a good idea, but the thought of a roughly 1/2 square mile theme park [[if it was built close to the size of Epcot) downtown right next to football field, baseball stadium, hockey arena, convention center, and etc. just sounds like overkill. It takes the concept of an urban playground to a new extreme.

Maybe instead it could connect the gap between Hamtramck and Midtown? That neighborhood is pretty desolate. You could knock most of it down and build the theme park there. The Detroit Academy of Arts and Sciences and the church on Medbury by Chene and the nearby market shed on Ferry and Chene could be saved and turned into the anchors for a new urban development that would benefit from the improved environment. In conjunction with the proposed extensions to the Dequindre Cut in the area [[connecting Hamtramck and Midtown), you'd have the makings of something interesting there. Visitors of the new theme park could be given tours of the nearby Detroit-Hamtramck Plant, where the Chevy Volt is made. Imagine that!

I know, I'm a genius.

Disney has recently added a cars land to its California Park. Might be able to gleam some ideas from there. http://disneyland.disney.go.com/disn...ure/cars-land/

Detroit Works will want the park to be in an area that has little population. You could do things such as incorporate large retention ponds that would take a ton of the load off of the sewer system [[save the City $100's of millions of capital and operating cost of treatment). It would be best to put this as close to transportation [[highways, transit) as possible. Building it near downtown would be a mistake, all I hear about from this forum is increasing density and 'street curtain wall'. Well this would do nothing for either.

There are no successful theme parks in downtowns. These require huge areas of land. Disneyland is about as close as they get.

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

It would be best to put this as close to transportation [[highways, transit) as possible.

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That's why I'm such a genius. The Nain Rouge Plan for the theme park would situate it close to I-94, I-75, and Grand Boulevard, the latter of which would be an ideal street to offer better transit options, as it could connect Hamtramck to New Center and the M-1 light rail.

You know, if someone has the money to do it and they want to build an amusement park, more power to them. They aren't my thing or my speed, but that's okay.

That said, for someone of Dan's monetary stature and importance to the revitalization of downtown to be taking his eyes off all of the more important balls he's juggling is just ridiculous. His priorities are getting whack. The very last thing on his list should be lusting after some ridiculous amusement park in downtown Detroit like some common five-year-old.

I don't see the need. The Detroit Historical Museum has an auto section and so does the Henry Ford Museum.

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Originally Posted by Pam

I don't see the need. The Detroit Historical Museum has an auto section and so does the Henry Ford Museum.

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Maybe we could resurect the Don Bardon/Michael Jackson amusement park idea on the riverfront?

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

Maybe we could resurect the Don Bardon/Michael Jackson amusement park idea on the riverfront?

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No good. Who wants to drive with one racing glove?

The problem with Autoworld was it was BORING.
We can barely keep a Science Center open, I dont see this being needed or much of an attraction

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

Disney has recently added a cars land to its California Park. Might be able to gleam some ideas from there. http://disneyland.disney.go.com/disn...ure/cars-land/

Detroit Works will want the park to be in an area that has little population. You could do things such as incorporate large retention ponds that would take a ton of the load off of the sewer system [[save the City $100's of millions of capital and operating cost of treatment). It would be best to put this as close to transportation [[highways, transit) as possible. Building it near downtown would be a mistake, all I hear about from this forum is increasing density and 'street curtain wall'. Well this would do nothing for either.

There are no successful theme parks in downtowns. These require huge areas of land. Disneyland is about as close as they get.

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I dunno, there is an amusement park, not a theme park per se that is very close to downtown Montreal; La Ronde. The city operated it for many years since Expo 67, and then sold it to 6Flags. It is very successful, they keep adding on new rides every coupla years. It is on St Helen's island midway under a bridge. There is also a subway station that stops there on a path to the south shore. It is a lot like Belle Isle, just slightly east of downtown. The rest of the island is dedicated to a major city park and some remnants of the Expo site are still around. The most important one being the Buckminster Fuller designed US pavilion [[the biosphere) which is now an environment themed museum. There is a history museum also on the island inside an old british military arsenal, the Stewart museum. http://jmesenstoutepetite.files.word...ue-du-ciel.jpg

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Originally Posted by gthomas

There's plenty of surface parking lots on the eastside of Downtown, not to mention Gilbert's acquiring of Greektown Casino & Hotel. There's plenty of land from Ford Field to Greektown, even down to the Monroe block. It's possible


http://realadvertising.cc/DesignDetr...ownParking.jpg

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I know that I just don't think it's the best use of space for that area.

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Originally Posted by canuck

I dunno, there is an amusement park, not a theme park per se that is very close to downtown Montreal; La Ronde. The city operated it for many years since Expo 67, and then sold it to 6Flags. It is very successful, they keep adding on new rides every coupla years. It is on St Helen's island midway under a bridge. There is also a subway station that stops there on a path to the south shore. It is a lot like Belle Isle, just slightly east of downtown. The rest of the island is dedicated to a major city park and some remnants of the Expo site are still around. The most important one being the Buckminster Fuller designed US pavilion [[the biosphere) which is now an environment themed museum. There is a history museum also on the island inside an old british military arsenal, the Stewart museum. http://jmesenstoutepetite.files.word...ue-du-ciel.jpg

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Being on an island that has more in common with somewhere like Boblo, Ontario Place, or Centreville. It is interesting that it does have a couple of Metro Stops though!

Maybe we can build ours on Boblo? I agree with the person who mentioned that Autoworld's rides stunk. They had a couple of well done yet boring dark rides. What we would need would be something like Epcot's Test Track or what Disney's CA Adventure has with the racing cars.

If there was enough space, I think ideally some sort of test track/interactive driving experience should be added to the Henry Ford instead. Ideally a few attractions for different age groups that were educational [[powertrains, environment, etc.) as well as fun. As impressive as the museum is, it's still a little boring for the video game generation, especially if you want your family to make repeat visits. It would be great if there was something to make kids go home and brag to their friends so more families would visit.

Old thread but it is a bit amusing using automobile and Epcot in the same sentence.

Walt Disney who was a visionary,original version of Epcot was a car less domed city where you stepped out of your front door onto a tram to be whisked off to work,shop and play,little details like trash was deposited onto a conveyor and taken away to the dump ,no need for pick up.

The Epcot as we know it today only holds the dome compared to the original intent.