Metro Times: Detroiters Explain Their Reasons for Leaving

Steve Neavling's news article about former Detroit residents who have left the city in the modern day:

Black Detroiters are fleeing the city at an alarming rate |
Metro Detroit News | Detroit | Detroit Metro Times

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Jessyka Faison was tired of watching the displacement of Black artists.
As a DJ who relied on a thriving nightlife, she watched in frustration as the creative space that catered to Black artists continued to shrink.
“I love my city and everything that came with it but I must say it’s been heartbreaking to watch the Black creative community lose their spaces to gentrification,” the 29-year-old says. “It really sucked the air out of everything I know. It’s heartbreaking. I feel really small. What can you do? Every time you take two steps forward, you have to take three steps backward.”
In August 2021, Faison, also known as DJ Lauren Jay, moved to Washington, D.C. Within three months, she was booking her first gigs as a DJ. Since then, she’s had DJ residencies at a club and a restaurant.
While she struggled to get consistent gigs in Detroit, she says she’s thriving in Washington, D.C.
For Faison, it was demoralizing to see an influx of new people at the expense of longtime Detroiters. She pointed to the hundreds of millions of dollars in tax incentives to two white billionaire developers — Dan Gilbert and the Ilitch family — at a time when the city’s neighborhoods are struggling.
It was too much for her to watch.
“Detroiters are paying for themselves to be displaced,” Faison says. “It’s really unfair. A lot of people don’t even realize that their tax dollars are being used to push them out of the city that they know and love.”
In the meantime, Faison hopes to help Detroit’s creative scene by connecting artists to Washington, D.C. and vice-versa.
“Now it’s a goal of mine to return to the city to play, reconnect with those creatives, and build bridges to expand Detroit’s culture beyond the city limits,” she says.

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No subsidies, tax breaks, incentives, set-asides, etc. for the private sector. If a project does not pencil out without them, the project is not feasable and should not be pursued. Many neighborhoods in Detroit died because services and resources were directed away from them starting in the 1970's.

If she would have gone to Washington DC or any other city in the 1970s or 80s it would have been no different then Detroit of today,or worse.

Detroit is a late bloomer and is going through nothing that all of those cities already went through and in every single city it is always the same dilemma,there is not enough money to confront the downtown core and the neighborhoods at the same time,so they take the density of the core and rebuild that first.

It’s like looking at Detroit and saying it has issues that no other city in the world has had to face.

The only difference is the fed funds that were available that many cities used to help improve the neighborhoods,sense the late 70s and 80s and even into the 90s,hell even into the 2000s.

The city leaders in charge NEVER applied for those funds,so whose responsibility was it to vote in proper leadership that would make sure the people were taking care of in the first time place.

It’s easy to move somewhere else where people already went through what it took to make their city a better place to be and look back and say,see this is what Detroit should be like and it is a mess because it is not then it is to be active and remain while doing your part in helping to make it a better place to live.

You are climbing into a bed that somebody else already put in the work to make for you.

Instead of rebuilding my current house,it is easier to just go buy a new one all ready to go,but I do do get to say - look at me in my new house that old house is a piece of crap that needs to be torn down.

Sometimes it does the city more good for people to leave and get out of the way of those working hard everyday to make it a better place to live,because all they are doing it making it harder for everybody else.

Sometimes people reach a point in life and just need a change,you cannot confuse that and place blame on your surroundings,because you were there and in a position to make your surroundings a better place,you just chose change over involvement because it was easier.

Detroit is moving forward all of these preferred cities are actually moving backwards and reverting back to the 70s and 80s.

People are also fleeing those cities at an alarming rate,350,000 people fled those cities to Florida in 2021-2022 alone while bringing as a rule the same stupid mentality that screwed up the place they fled from.

Steve Neavling; the race hustler in chief.

Complaining about gentrification and new money out of one side of his mouth, while complaining about the lack of investment and good jobs out of the other.

No one should waste their time reading Steve's drivel.

I find the quoted artist's complaint to be an odd way to illustrate whatever problem there is, given that displacement in DC has been much greater than it has been in Detroit.

The status quo in Detroit 20-25 years ago was quite bad. I have a hard time seeing that things are worse now. Part of what has changed that is subsidized developments. It's perfectly reasonable for people not to like that. I don't love it, but I feel you have to consider the alternative, which almost certainly would be a city with fewer people and an even smaller tax base.

Consider a specific recent example that is close to my heart, the Book Tower. 25 years ago it was deteriorating rapidly, and of course it closed down about ten years later in a spiral of lost tenants and deferred maintenance. The only thing that allowed that building to be revived and reopening now as one of the gems of downtown is tax incentives. Frankly, it was such a massive undertaking that I doubt the tax incentives would even have been sufficient if Dan Gilbert hadn't wanted to do it as a signature building, but it could never have been done without them. Now there will be a bunch of people living there, not displacing anyone because no one lived there before.

Anyway, clearly people can be of different minds on this, but I really don't think tax incentives for redevelopment are causing a lot of people to leave the city, this article not withstanding. The reasons people leave the city are a lot more direct than that--crime, taxes, insurance rates, schools--all working together to offset the other attractions of city life. Not for everybody, but for a lot of people.

Reasons for leaving Detroit for southern Nevada [[Henderson. Look it up.): #1: Weather. Winters usually snowless and low temps only hit freezing a few times in January. #2: Taxes. No state or local income taxes, and my property tax on my 400k home are $1200 and change a year. #3: Scenery. The view from my front door.

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

.... The view from my front door.

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On really tall stilts. ;)

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

Reasons for leaving Detroit for southern Nevada [[Henderson. Look it up.): #1: Weather. Winters usually snowless and low temps only hit freezing a few times in January. #2: Taxes. No state or local income taxes, and my property tax on my 400k home are $1200 and change a year. #3: Scenery. The view from my front door.

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The ones that bought into the development that has to truck their water in must be thinking a bit different about now.

If one wants to live in the desert with no water,it’s better just to buy 2000 acres in Texas or New Mexico for like $1500 and if you send a drone high enough you can have quite the view,but for the 99% of the rest of the time,when one is not sputtering about in a drone,it looks just like every other cookie cutter subdivisions plopped down in the middle of no where.

The only good thing is Arizona is closer to Cali so they are more apt to move there first.

I paid 6k for my house,property taxes are $450 a year,blocks from the ocean and all it has to offer,1 mile from city center,so the best of all worlds without having to drop $400k on a house,which at that price will get you a fixer upper in the ghetto,not including ammunition for safety.

The trendy parts are $500-$600k for a 80 yo house and they are plagued with crime,voilence and random shootings,can actually live in Detroit for 1/2 the cost.

Everybody has a different view on what is ideal,I think in Detroit if one puts a little effort in they are a part of something bigger and even the simplest things play an important role in the bigger picture.

Where elsewhere people just exist and they moved to a place where somebody else already laid out the table for them and did the hard work,people living in the Detroit of today are the ones building the city for the future,they do not have the luxury of just resting back on their laurels and enjoying the view,they have to create it before they can enjoy it.

That’s the difference.

The ritual of moving to warmer climes as a part of retirement is a different ball game and really unless you are moving to the Bahamas or Panama where you can really enjoy your retirement to the fullest extent,everywhere else is just a warmer place to live to while waiting to die,they do not call places like Florida,gods waiting room,for nothing.

Complains about "gentrification" in Detroit but moves to the rapidly gentrifying Washington, DC. Why not just admit that DC offers vastly more opportunities than Detroit?

Consider the scale and vastness of abandonment of Detroit's urban core, the extraordinarily high crime rate and limited economic opportunities and it's no surprise why so many Detroiters are packing up and moving out.

The reasons I left Michigan [[besides the obvious problems that have been facing Detroit proper) are:

*Fledgling local economy

*Stagnant population

*Excessively gloomy weather

*Desire for long warm seasons

^Interestingly enough... this was almost the warmest winter on record. The Great Lakes had only 6% ice cover at the max. The coldest 3 days of the year were Dec. 24, 25, 26, with temps near zero. Much of Jan. and Feb. had above freezing in the daytime. And next week we're going to have 5 daytime highs into the 70s.

If Climate Change does accelerate into the future... then Michigan with ample fresh water, and a [relatively] milder climate, will be a nice place to live year round. And with the lowest point in Michigan being 570 ft. above sea level... rising sea levels won't affect us. :)

Can't beat Michigan in June, July and August - nothing like Michigan summers anywhere. Actually April through Oct is all pretty good.

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

Reasons for leaving Detroit for southern Nevada [[Henderson. Look it up.): #1: Weather. Winters usually snowless and low temps only hit freezing a few times in January. #2: Taxes. No state or local income taxes, and my property tax on my 400k home are $1200 and change a year. #3: Scenery. The view from my front door.

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But I don't see your Eiffel tower, Ray, where is it?

Yes the curse of 67 is the reason why people are leaving Detroit.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3739...7i13312!8i6656

Look at the bright side. More young professionals [[Millennials) are coming back.

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3437...7i16384!8i8192

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Originally Posted by softailrider

Can't beat Michigan in June, July and August - nothing like Michigan summers anywhere. Actually April through Oct is all pretty good.

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I am actually seriously looking at a reverse snowbird thing,we are already having 90 degree days,the heat and humidity of the summer literally drains you while doing anything outside.

The last 4 months the wind does not lay down enough to take the boat out and 5’ seas are not very fun.

There are actually 4 months out of the year Florida is actually bearable,next our rainy season is coming up.

But every state has its pluses and negatives,I am not sure about the whole lack of opportunity thing though,it’s always out there and most of us older folks have gone through recessions and tough times,but yet here we still are.

Just about every project announced in Detroit has affordable housing involved and real estate to purchase is pennies on the dollar compared to elsewhere if one is willing to put a little sweat equity in.

So I am not seeing how gentrification is impacting Detroit in a negative way,but there are some who will always expect things to be laid out in a nice neat little package.

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Originally Posted by canuck

But I don't see your Eiffel tower, Ray, where is it?

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It's on the strip. off the photo to the right by pretty much. I thought it was kind of tacky. But, then, I think the one in Paris is kinda tacky, too.

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

It's on the strip. off the photo to the right by pretty much. I thought it was kind of tacky. But, then, I think the one in Paris is kinda tacky, too.

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Lol, I know. An overgrown version of the Las Vegas one, IMO.

Yeah we've heard about those GIANT bugs too.... https://bonesmart.org/forum/jofox_images/2h3asdh.gif....

I guess the winter season here keeps ours down in size!

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Originally Posted by Richard

...There are actually 4 months out of the year Florida is actually bearable, next our rainy season is coming up.

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I haven't noticed developers kicking people out of existing housing or apartments downtown. At least, not in any meaningful numbers. I think a few small apartment buildings were torn down for Little Caesars arena. Mostly, they are refurbishing empty buildings or building new ones, almost all in the downtown area.

There are hundreds of house listings on Realtor all over Detroit at all price points.

"While she struggled to get consistent gigs in Detroit, she says she’s thriving in Washington, D.C."

I'd say that has a lot more to do with why she left Detroit.

^ she was an African American DJ in a city that is 78% African American,if she cannot make it there ….

In her case specifically is Detroit a nightclub city like some others are ?

The thing about opportunity is it is not sitting there waiting for you,you have to create it and work at it,many do for years before they become successful at it,but then there are others that expect it to fall in their lap overnight.

She is self employed,you do not just hang your shingle and the money just rolls in,you have to work long and hard for it while sacrificing many things along the way that many are not willing to do.

She also said that the African American clubs are being forced out due to increased rent costs,I have African American club owners that are customers.

They are a group of doctors that pooled the money to open them,but along with that comes the shootings and violence that follows certain kinds of clubs,so they are not very welcomed in any city it has little to do with rising rents.

Jazz,blues etc all do well

Many more people have left Detroit because black Detroiters have a deep misconception that Detroit is a black city and always must be a black city then for the reasons Metro Times would have us believe, such as a black girl not being able to find a DJ gig. Literally a million more. Detroit was never intended to be a majority black city and has only been so for a small amount of time. Black overrepresentation in Detroit compared to their national population frankly is the result of the dysfunction that is common among black Americans, such as fatherless homes and a laissez faire attitude toward crime, and just a general unpleasantness. Don't believe me? Politely ask the black guy, or girl, on the Q or the bus to turn down the volume on their cell phone speakers and see what happens.

The area in Washington D.C. east of the Capitol out towards the old RFK stadium is an area of massive gentrification. Run down row houses that you couldn't give away have been the subject of major rehab and are now selling for over $1M.

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Originally Posted by Zozo

Many more people have left Detroit because black Detroiters have a deep misconception that Detroit is a black city and always must be a black city then for the reasons Metro Times would have us believe, such as a black girl not being able to find a DJ gig. Literally a million more. Detroit was never intended to be a majority black city and has only been so for a small amount of time. Black overrepresentation in Detroit compared to their national population frankly is the result of the dysfunction that is common among black Americans, such as fatherless homes and a laissez faire attitude toward crime, and just a general unpleasantness. Don't believe me? Politely ask the black guy, or girl, on the Q or the bus to turn down the volume on their cell phone speakers and see what happens.

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At least you don't hide it...

I read the entire article. It's the same old stuff that's been reported for years, families leaving for safety reasons or older folks leaving because they can't take the cold winters here in Michigan/Midwest. I get that. For the others interviewed in the article, some of the reasons for leaving have a lot to do with their level of education and the careers they chose.

One of the expatriates worked in big pharma, left to start their own health food store but said the rent increased, causing her to close shop. She couldn't find another area in Detroit to run her shop? Then she says she goes to Atlanta and finds another job in big pharma. Couldn't she just have gone back to big pharma here?

Another expatriate talks about not being able to find the funding for some unproven AI powered software to make home buying easier. He goes to Baltimore and he finds investors. However, the article says he found the money he needed and tested his software in Macomb and Oakland counties and the company is going to launch the software here in Michigan. Then what's the problem?

A third expatriate said they couldn't find work after getting a secondary degree in education. There are many school districts here in Michigan to find a job. Then she leaves here but finds jobs in everything else but education. Did she have a desirable teaching degree, such as one in science, math, or special education?

Finally, one expatriate is an actor. He says that the loss of the Michigan Film Incentive made it hard for him to find work here. Well, Detroit had nothing to do with that. Besides, if you want to be an actor with consistent work, then you go to LA or NYC. Everybody knows that, right?

A lot of Detroiters who get college degrees often get degrees in subjects that aren't in high demand. An arts degree, a degree in social work, or a degree in social justice is not going to pave your way to big salaries. Again, because of educational choices, the people interviewed couldn't find work here in Detroit. I don't think Detroit had anything to do with this, at least not this time.

BTW, how do you measure middle income neighborhoods? The article says that Detroit had 22 middle class neighborhoods but now only has 11. I would like to see those numbers.

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Originally Posted by royce

I read the entire article. It's the same old stuff that's been reported for years, families leaving for safety reasons or older folks leaving because they can't take the cold winters here in Michigan/Midwest. I get that. For the others interviewed in the article, some of the reasons for leaving have a lot to do with their level of education and the careers they chose.

One of the expatriates worked in big pharma, left to start their own health food store but said the rent increased, causing her to close shop. She couldn't find another area in Detroit to run her shop? Then she says she goes to Atlanta and finds another job in big pharma. Couldn't she just have gone back to big pharma here?

Another expatriate talks about not being able to find the funding for some unproven AI powered software to make home buying easier. He goes to Baltimore and he finds investors. However, the article says he found the money he needed and tested his software in Macomb and Oakland counties and the company is going to launch the software here in Michigan. Then what's the problem?

A third expatriate said they couldn't find work after getting a secondary degree in education. There are many school districts here in Michigan to find a job. Then she leaves here but finds jobs in everything else but education. Did she have a desirable teaching degree, such as one in science, math, or special education?

Finally, one expatriate is an actor. He says that the loss of the Michigan Film Incentive made it hard for him to find work here. Well, Detroit had nothing to do with that. Besides, if you want to be an actor with consistent work, then you go to LA or NYC. Everybody knows that, right?

A lot of Detroiters who get college degrees often get degrees in subjects that aren't in high demand. An arts degree, a degree in social work, or a degree in social justice is not going to pave your way to big salaries. Again, because of educational choices, the people interviewed couldn't find work here in Detroit. I don't think Detroit had anything to do with this, at least not this time.

BTW, how do you measure middle income neighborhoods? The article says that Detroit had 22 middle class neighborhoods but now only has 11. I would like to see those numbers.

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I would venture to say if most of these ex-pats had no problem securing funding for their ventures or establishing their careers in other states once they left, common denominator would imply the problem doesn't lie with them but the state they grew up in.

And that problem is a complete dearth of opportunities for young/ambitious people who are starting out and just want to catch a break. Said state has failed them in this regard.

It would stand to reason as the middle income is being wiped out across the country,a decline in the neighborhoods would follow suit.

There is also a thread going back a few months about the middle class African Americans moving to the suburbs,what you are seeing is not Detroit specific,as the younger generation moves back to the city they are filling up the apartments as they get further along in their careers and start families they will shift to houses,most likely because they already established roots with in the city they will prefer to stay there .

A lot of the thought patterns are the same across the country - insert city name here - so although this is a Detroit centric forum is not a Detroit specific issue.

There are specific locals that are seed money friendly and people move there no different then moving to California to become an actor,but for anything else,people with money are always looking for ways to make more if somebody has a solid plan to submit they can find funding in Detroit no different then anywhere else.

Its never been like you walk down to the corner and pick up a bag of cash and not everybody gets funded.

Ann Arbor seemed to be seed capital friendly before but Detroit also has been opening up lots of new avenues,when it comes to tech it is tough if not impossible to go door knocking on your own but there are groups that will take you by the hand and help.

Rivian did it,but not everybody with an idea is going to be a rivian.

Granted the region is slow on diversification as it has been auto centric for 100 + years and leadership is slow to adapt or maybe has pressure not to so losses related to that are par the course.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

I would venture to say if most of these ex-pats had no problem securing funding for their ventures or establishing their careers in other states once they left, common denominator would imply the problem doesn't lie with them but the state they grew up in.

And that problem is a complete dearth of opportunities for young/ambitious people who are starting out and just want to catch a break. Said state has failed them in this regard.

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Well, 313WX, the article specifically talks about Detroiters leaving due to the lack of opportunities in the city itself. And yes, there are state and regional issues that contribute to young folks leaving the state. Again, the article didn't focus on that specifically.

Specifically, it is tough for young black entrepreneurs to get seed money to start a business here in Detroit. There simply aren't organizations in Detroit, specifically black organizations, that can help these individuals. The city has a program that is awarding a number of Detroit based small businesses seed money, but it can't say it's designated for black Detroiters. It's not enough, but it's a start.

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Originally Posted by royce

Well, 313WX, the article specifically talks about Detroiters leaving due to the lack of opportunities in the city itself. And yes, there are state and regional issues that contribute to young folks leaving the state. Again, the article didn't focus on that specifically.

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The fact that all [[but one) of the folks interviewed had to leave the state entirely is enough to imply the problems they faced plague Michigan as a whole.This didn't have to be explicitly stated.

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Originally Posted by Ray1936

Reasons for leaving Detroit for southern Nevada [[Henderson. Look it up.): #1: Weather. Winters usually snowless and low temps only hit freezing a few times in January. #2: Taxes. No state or local income taxes, and my property tax on my 400k home are $1200 and change a year. #3: Scenery. The view from my front door.

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Looks like you prepared and left at the right time Ray, early 80's I presume? You went there before the prices on everything skyrocketed. A lot of people couldn't make that transition now.

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Originally Posted by royce

Well, 313WX, the article specifically talks about Detroiters leaving due to the lack of opportunities in the city itself. And yes, there are state and regional issues that contribute to young folks leaving the state. Again, the article didn't focus on that specifically.

Specifically, it is tough for young black entrepreneurs to get seed money to start a business here in Detroit. There simply aren't organizations in Detroit, specifically black organizations, that can help these individuals. The city has a program that is awarding a number of Detroit based small businesses seed money, but it can't say it's designated for black Detroiters. It's not enough, but it's a start.

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In a city that is 78% African American where are the African American groups supporting other African American groups with seed money?

Where I am at I know lots of African Americans with a lot of money,in the millions,but the last thing they do is help other African Americans as a community.

But will be the first to say,African Americans need to come together as a community and support each other,but as a rule the more wealth they acquire the further they distance themselves from the rest of the African American community.

I remember years ago the city of Orlando provided seed money for African Americans,exclusively,but as a majority they started small businesses that they could have started without help.

After allocating 10 million in funding,1 year later none of the businesses started were still in business.

It also depends on what one is looking for in seed money and what the intentions are for it use.

When it comes to tech,very few cities across the country are know for easily acquired tech seed money,there are probably about 3 at best and that’s where people move to.

If one is looking for seed money to start a business,taking somebody that has zero business experience and handing them $100k and saying have at it is setting them up for failure.

So you not only have to have the ability as a city to provide seed money,you have to have the funds to provide the training before even you allocate the funds.

I am not sure where the concept came about that just because somebody is not African American it rains money down on them and there are lines of people with bags of cash just handing them out.

If it was that easy everybody would be doing it.

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Originally Posted by Richard

In a city that is 78% African American where are the African American groups supporting other African American groups with seed money?

Where I am at I know lots of African Americans with a lot of money,in the millions,but the last thing they do is help other African Americans as a community.

But will be the first to say,African Americans need to come together as a community and support each other,but as a rule the more wealth they acquire the further they distance themselves from the rest of the African American community.

I remember years ago the city of Orlando provided seed money for African Americans,exclusively,but as a majority they started small businesses that they could have started without help.

After allocating 10 million in funding,1 year later none of the businesses started were still in business.

It also depends on what one is looking for in seed money and what the intentions are for it use.

When it comes to tech,very few cities across the country are know for easily acquired tech seed money,there are probably about 3 at best and that’s where people move to.

If one is looking for seed money to start a business,taking somebody that has zero business experience and handing them $100k and saying have at it is setting them up for failure.

So you not only have to have the ability as a city to provide seed money,you have to have the funds to provide the training before even you allocate the funds.

I am not sure where the concept came about that just because somebody is not African American it rains money down on them and there are lines of people with bags of cash just handing them out.

If it was that easy everybody would be doing it.

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A couple points:

1. You mentioned earlier that the region is auto-centric, and I think you were onto something.

Automotive is an very cyclical industry. When times are good, they're great and folks are making money hand over fist. However, the downturns are equally as brutal. So yes, for those who do have money in Michigan, this just breed a culture of extreme risk-aversion & penny-pinching for investment/spending compared to other cities/states with more diverse & stable economies.

2. The point isn't about "money raining down because someone is African-American."

More to the point, look at the Chaldean community in Metro Detroit as an example. Mike George, the founder of Melody Farms, could be argued is singularly responsible for helping Chaldeans grow such an massive business empire across the region. He would guarantee every single one of their loans from the SBA with the only caveat that his milk be sold in their stores *AND* he would base his decision only on his judgment of a family's character [[nothing else). So it can be [[and has successfully been) done.

Unfortunately, there isn't a similarly wealthy & powerful figure in the African-American community that has attempted to execute the same thing for the benefit of aspiring African-American business owners.

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Looks like you prepared and left at the right time Ray, early 80's I presume? You went there before the prices on everything skyrocketed. A lot of people couldn't make that transition now.

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That's a good point, and quite correct. My timing was 90% luck I'd have to say.

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Originally Posted by 313WX

More to the point, look at the Chaldean community in Metro Detroit as an example. Mike George, the founder of Melody Farms, could be argued is singularly responsible for helping Chaldeans grow such an massive business empire across the region.

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Chaldean's are excellent entrepreneurs.

I'd say the two biggest reasons for the flight is crime and schools. People want to feel safe taking a walk down the street. As it pertains to the schools, many people may not want to spend 1000 dollars per kid, per year for private schools. They may feel that should come part and parcel with their property taxes.

If you think that a DJ is an artist, you better GTF out of Detroit. Go to a hick town where they don't know about art.