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Hello All,
I am a long time reader and first time poster. Please forgive me if this has been covered in a previous thread, but what do you all think is the likelihood Detroit will ever get a MLS Team? Noting that Ross and Gilbert parted ways on the Detroit Center for Innovation for the University of Michigan at the failed jail site, might Gilbert consider another bid? Thank you all for your input!
Absolutely not, Soccer or [[Football) is not in city's interest right now.
Ever? Very likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandnu
When? Who knows.
The big three requirements for getting a new MLS franchise is to have:
1. An ownership group worth at least 1 billion dollars
2. A large and proven market
3. A downtown Soccer Specific Stadium
The bid put in by Gilbert and Gores basically had all three when they put in their fake bid to get Wayne County to sell them the Fail-Jail site. The second they got the land, they brought the Fords into the mix and said the new club could play at Ford Field. The head of the MLS, Dan Garber, was reportedly very disappointed by the move as he has seen Detroit as a prime location for a new club.
If the public has to provide so much as a penny for a soccer stadium then I never want it. These franchises can pay for their own shit.
Detroit city FC is so far pretty great as it is.
If he wants Detroit so bad then he can come here without fleecing us for a free stadium. Some of the most successful [[fan and following wise) MLS teams play in football stadiums, there's no reason a Detroit team shouldn't be allowed to at least start in Ford Field. They can always move on to a new stadium after a few years if it proves to be a successful venture.Quote:
Originally Posted by louis
We don't need an MLS team. We've got the champion Detroit City FC club!!
Getting bigger and better every year!! And what a community champion they are!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by louis
Slight correction:
The big three requirements for getting a new MLS franchise is to have:
1. An ownership group worth at least 1 billion dollars
2. A large and proven market
3. A downtown Soccer Specific Stadium*
*If you are not deemed a sexy market.
Basically, once Don Garber and MLS told Detroit that similar sized markets in Seattle and Atlanta could play by different rules than Detroit could, I was glad to see Gilbert and crew walk away. We don’t need to spend any money building a soccer stadium for a league that treats the Detroit market as a second class citizen. Forget them.
What you fail to mention is that those "football stadiums" were also built with the specs for MLS games in mind, such as Mercedes-Benz stadium in Atlanta.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWylie
Ford Field was not.
You're way off base. See post #9 above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus
You also have Nissan Stadium, Gillette, Soldier Field, and Yankee Stadium that all get used as MLS stadiums. Nashville gets to use Nissan for the first couple years before a stadium is built, it seems like that could work here. Vancouver is indoor and turf as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
As part of Gilbert’s Ford Field proposal, it included renovations to Ford Field to bring it up to MLS specifications. The plan was done by Rosetti and with the updates Ford Field would have been just as good a stadium fit soccer as Atlanta.Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
I get it that soccer specific and outdoors would have been better for an MLS experience. But if sharing an NFL stadium worked for ATL, it could work here.
Further, from a business standpoint, Gilbert was smart not buying in with the expansion franchise fees being what they are. Financially speaking, MLS is somewhat relying on a pyramid scheme with ever increasing expansion fees keeping the league financially viable. I.e. Add a new team and use that expansion fee to help cover the existing owners’ losses. Well, at some point the expansion money train model will collapse in on itself when the league decides it is too big to expand more. Add in Covid, and there will likely be some franchises diving deep into the red when expansion ends. Gilbert [[or someone else) can then buy an existing team and relocate it here much cheaper, if they still want to.
Ford Field would maximize revenues for MLS. Foolish of the league to require ‘soccer specific’ when they are looking to grow their base. Getting the maximum number of fans possible at the games ASAP is how to get a TV contract that pays what they are hoping for down the road.
I don't follow a sport where they don't have enough sense to just pick up the damn ball and run with it.:p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus
That's actually a very good point. Maybe we'll see a team relocate.
There is no truth to the rumor that truncated icosahedrons have cooties. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
If I remember correctly [[and please correct me if I'm wrong), Gilbert's "renovations" was nothing more than putting up a huge curtain in the middle of the stadium to block off sections of seating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Atticus
Conversely, Atlanta's stadium was built with a roof that can open, its turf gets replaced every 2 years [[which isn't cheap, BTW) and has retractable lower-bowl seats.
You already covered Nashville, but in the case of those other cities, they all have either no roof or [[with Vancouver) a retractable roof.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWylie
BTW, had Dan Gilbert actually committed to building a stadium like Nashvlle did, I agree it could work. But that's not what he committed to do.
Amen.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonWylie
There was a bit more to it then just a curtain, though yes an upper deck curtain was included should crowds not materialize enough. There were also other improvements include to add locker rooms and other field level improvements. The big sticking point is that soccer purists hate turf, and want a grass pitch, which Ford Field can’t provide.Quote:
Originally Posted by 313WX
That being said, Atlanta’s roof opening is not big enough to allow grass to grow there either, so they have turf. And so does Seattle, Vancouver, and several other clubs. So while not desirable, turf would be allowed elsewhere but again not in Detroit.
I admit an outdoor soccer stadium would be nicer, but someone has to pay for it. And again, Seattle, Atlanta, etc. we’re allowed to reap the cost savings of sharing their venue with the NFL… but Detroit was not. So in a way, I am glad Gilbert didn’t spend his money to placate a double standard. I’m actually glad he decided to spend that money on building the Hudson block and/or other projects instead .
What's MLS?
Major League SoccerQuote:
Originally Posted by Hamtragedy
I think Detroit will eventually get a team; the market is too lucrative, and billionaires love owning sports teams. At some point someone will step up, and hopefully it doesn't cost the taxpayers [[wishful thinking, I know).
I do wish we had a system in American soccer where DCFC could climb the ranks and join the MLS through promotion/relegation, but our current MLS franchise system would never allow for that. The only foreseeable path would be similar to Cincinnati, who played in USL until they became a franchise in the MLS a few years back.
Just assembling a parcel for a MLS stadium anywhere near downtown/midtown will be nearly impossible, due to speculators, and lack of available space [Ilitchville is out of the question].Quote:
Originally Posted by EGrant
Detroit is one of the biggest markets without an MLS team, so it only makes sense that it would host a franchise eventually.
There does appear to be a double standard about field turf for some…
https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/charl...merica-stadium
hmm.. I hope Detroit gets a team. share with Ford Field.
We should get a professional football team first, then worry about soccer.
I really like the idea of putting the stadium on the Uniroyal site with lots of mixed use development surrounding it. Maybe we could even use it as an excuse to build a light rail line down Jefferson :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
The main sticking point with Ford Field was not the turf/grass, but the roof.
And frankly, even if the MLS eventually gives the OK with Ford Field, I don't blame Don Garber for being petty and making Detroit wait after Gilbert pulled that massive bait & switch on him [[the whole taxpayer funding thing notwithstanding).
For long, I have envisioned a Navy Pier-type attraction at the Uniroyal Site, with the Uniroyal Tire Ferris Wheel as its headliner. A 25,000 outdoor stadium would be awesome there as well. [[Although I think the MLS has expanded too fast, the league is barely 25 years old and is already on pace to have 30 teams by 2023. I don't know how sustainable it is)Quote:
Originally Posted by louis
Myself, I would pass on another riverfront stadia. Been there done that. Uniroyal site needs something bigger that engages the waterfront directly with people 363 days a year… Like a Aquarium!
Ferris wheels and aquariums. Yeah let's copy what every other city has done for the last 20 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit
As far as aquariums go, I wouldn't want to see anything bigger than what we already have at Belle Isle. Anything bigger than that will create some Sea World-like conditions, and I just am not a big fan of that.
I did like how the original MLS proposal for the jail site included offices/residential, which helps keep the site from becoming dead for a majority of the year. If a new stadium is needed, I hope its a mixed use stadium that can get some life when there isn't a game going on.
Where ever the MLS team plays, please make the seating good for sleeping, because that what soccer does for me.
Do you have another idea for the Uniroyal site? Condos?Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
FANTASY LAND ALERT: In the past, on this forum, I had suggested a small municipal amusement park, a la Portland's Oak Amusement Park, Sand Diego's Belmont Park, and Green Bay's Bay Amusement Park.
It would include a roller coaster, bumper cars, a putt-putt golf course, permanent carnival rides, a large pool with a giant slide, a beer garden, a boardwalk overlooking the river with gift shops, ice cream shop, BeaverTails [[Oh Canada) shop, an outpost of Ryba's Mackinaw Island Fudge, etc. And of course, Uniroyal Tire restored to a ferris wheel.
Attachment 41640
Lastly, to provide an indoor space with year-round activities, dismantle the Albert Kahn-designed, Henry Ford-funded Dance Pavilion that is rotting on Boblo Island, and place it in this park.
Attachment 41639
With the Uniroyal site, Detroit has a golden opportunity to create a special cultural amenity that would be popular with locals and tourists alike, especially if they could make it affordable.
Now does this sound like something every city has done in the past 20 years? We have some wealthy benefactors around here who could help fund this - Penske, Ilitch, Gilbert, Ralph C. Wilson Foundation, etc.
No reason to get your old person “I wouldn’t use it!” going here.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
It’s not like there is a multi-billionaire philanthropist ready to bankroll an awesome aquarium on the Uniroyal site anytime soon… But if there were any old ladies around here who had already given her children everything like an NFL team, controlling interest in an auto company, plus gobs of wealth, that really wanted to leave something that had many permanent good paying jobs and was really enjoyed by children and families of all ages from diverse backgrounds… a modern Aquarium in Detroit would be an interesting idea!
Martha Firestone Ford!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ABetterDetroit
Ford Field could use a roof upgrade anyways, and the LAST thing Detroit needs is another underutilized stadium.
It's like broken record with the MLS stadium stuff...
With Don Garber in charge of the MLS, it's unlikely.
I find it odd that Detroit was a contender when it was a soccer specific stadium that was going to be built on the former jail site. When it changed to Ford Field, MLS just immediately said no.
1. A publicly funded field should not be something that anyone should consider. If an owner wants a stadium, they should fund it themselves.
2. We have Detroit City FC, of which I'm a huge fan of, full disclosure, because sometimes the fans get a bad rap. I would like world class soccer here, but the way MLS does business is not good for fans, the team or the community at large. What DCFC is doing is one-of-a-kind. Let's embrace that. They have built something from the ground up and the community has benefitted from that. Embrace DCFC that started as a summer league and is now a lower-level pro team.
We had one once, The Detroit Express, the star player was Trevor Francis.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochelle St.
Detroit actually has had several through the decades.
https://www.dbusiness.com/business-f...ry-in-detroit/
Lol, keeping the discussion groundedQuote:
Originally Posted by Hamtragedy
You mean every other big city that has not continued to bleed people like Detroit? Yeah, what a terrible idea that would be...Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
Seaworld isn't an aquarium, it's a waterpark that happens to have sealife do tricks for visitors. Have you never been to a place like the Shedd Aquarium in Seattle?Quote:
Originally Posted by EGrant
I don't want to derail this topic, but I've been to Shedd Aquarium in Chicago and I think it's really sad that there's beluga whales and dolphins in a tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnnNike
The dance pavilion on Boblo Island wasn't actually designed by Albert Kahn as is commonly thought, it was designed by John Scott. Also, considering that the island is located in Canadian waters, I don't think it'd be feasible to relocate the pavilion to Detroit.Quote:
Originally Posted by masterblaster
Ferris Wheels and carnival attractions have nothing to do with city populations. This is such a weird take.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnnNike
We already have an aquarium BTW and it's pretty nice.
About 20 years ago, I attended an event hosted by Dan Duggan, brother of the mayor and owner of a minor league soccer club then called the Mid-Michigan Bucks, now the Flint City Bucks. Way back then, and we're talking early 2000s, Duggan was working to drum up interest, publicity and investors in an effort to bring MLS to Detroit.
i hear this a lot, but hard to understand. Soccer is non stop action. No boring tv timeouts, no taking forever to change pitchers. How long does it take to play the last two minutes of an NBA game, like 30 mins with all the timeouts? NFL games are 60 mins but actual game play is about 5 mins.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
That would have been the time to do it. Now MLS pretty much extorts cities to get new stadiums and what not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bucket
Soccer is non-stop, but it's non-stop grind. 99% of the time in any match there is no chance that there will be a point awarded, and besides that there is no other objective the players are trying to achieve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
Every pass or run could turn into a TD, every at bat a HR, every drive down the court or rink could pay out in less than 30 seconds, so if the game is even somewhat meaningful to you enjoyment is easy.
American Football and baseball have the added benefits of achieving small wins that you can cheer for while building towards a run or TD. Just getting a hit, or stealing a base provides some instant suspense or reward. Same goes with each down in football. Every snap is a micro competition that has it's own conclusion in short order.
Soccer lacks the "anything could happen at any time" aspect of basketball and hockey, and also lacks the micro competitions of baseball or football.
Yeah but sometimes they get hit in the head with the ball on purpose.Quote:
Originally Posted by K-slice
Thank you everyone so much for your diverse inputs!! I personally and sincerely hope that Detroit gets an MLS Team sooner rather than later!! In this day and age it would be a welcomed change for a Billionaire to fund their own stadium.
For all those In The Know as well as those that would like to prognosticate, what do you believe Gilbert will fully do with The Failed Jail Site? Thank you all again for all of your input!!
DCFC is moving to the USL Championship which is the second tier of the USSF soccer pyramid. This is a great move for the club. USL Championship is the ceiling for DCFC in its current ownership form. It's a solid league with excellent quality of play. With some relatively minor improvements, Keyworth can remain the club's home. It compares well enough with facilities used by many of the league's clubs. It will be interesting to see how many of the core players of the past few years remain with the club as it moves up to the 2nd division level. https://www.uslchampionship.com/news...e/show/1193403
This development probably doesn't move the needle one way or the other when it comes to the question posed by the title of this thread.
Just want to revive this classic thread to mention that DCFC just beat the Columbus Crew, an MLS team, in the US Open Cup at home last night.
Even though it was freezing, the stands were packed and looked awesome on ESPN+. Easily the biggest win in club history. Really cool to watch; wish I was there in person.
Just incredible!
Honestly, with all that DCFC offers. For me there is no need for an MLS team. Great play, incredible fans, tremendous atmosphere at Keyworth, and socially positive company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EGrant
Couldn't pay me to watch soccer, but why would Columbus care to put much effort in a meaningless exhibition game on a freezing cold Tuesday night?Quote:
Originally Posted by DeLemur
Cool. It also wasn't a meaningless exhibition, it was part of a cup competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
That's what they usually do for exhibition series. We're playing for the [[nowadays you insert sponsor's name) ....Cup!Quote:
Originally Posted by southen
The US Open Cup is not an exhibition, nor does it have a corporate naming deal, but many teams don't play their starters in the early rounds because typically they can dispose of "lesser" teams from lower divisions pretty easily. Not the case last night with DCFC. Gyasi Zardes even played for the Crew, but it wasn't enough.
Couldn't pay you to watch soccer and you don't know anything about the sport nor the cup. Maybe refrain from commenting here.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
I thought that's what the internet was for.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zads07
The US Open Cup bears no resemblance to an exhibition. Unlike with many facts our country's red-hat wearing populace find inconvenient, there are no alternative facts regarding the importance of the US Open Cup. Just like with the FA Cup in England, the DFB-Pokal in Germany and dozens of other national cup competitions, the Open Cup title is the second most important championship in the U.S., behind only the MLS Cup. All clubs, including MLS clubs treat it as such. Tuesday's DCFC win was recognized by soccer media around the country as exceptional and reflected well the quality of the club's play and it's supporter culture. Now, if the liberals could just recognize the existence of all of those other alternative facts out there our country could become less divided, right.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
Ah yes, lets cram politics into every single discussion. How fun.
Anyway, DCFC moves on to the next round to play Louisville City [[another USL team) on May 10th at Keyworth. I dare say this is a winnable game. And if they win, there's a good chance they'll have another shot at an MLS team.
So it's like if baseball decided to have a tournament with the AAA and major league teams? Sounds pretty goofy Mr. Trump.Quote:
Originally Posted by swingline
Its actual true free market competition. You don't have leagues isolating terrible teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves or AZ Diamondbacks. Now we see that the Columbus Crew isn't as good as they think they are or the MLS is. What's goofy is a piss poor team like the Lions can be in the top tier of football for so long and still command high value tickets and branding.
In most soccer leagues its actually true competition. The bottom 3 teams fall to a lower division of soccer and the top 3 teams of that level move up a division. This keeps the focus of a team on WINNING not just profit. It also makes the terrible teams have to fight for their lives at the end of the season. Teams aren't granted by a league. They're given space to enter because they're good.
The U.S. cup continues that true competition format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
The U.S. Open Cup [aka Lamar Hunt Cup] ain't no fly-by-night shady competition. It's been around for more than 100 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
https://www.ussoccer.com/us-open-cup
We've been DCFC supporters since the early days of their existence [founded 2012]. It's been great to watch them succeed as a team and as a community supporter. Every year they are better as a team, even adding a women's team, and every year they do more around the metro Detroit area, promoting soccer to young players and raising money for various local charity partners. They are committed to the city! And their fan base is growing.
https://www.detcityfc.com/
We were at the Cup match on Tuesday and it was an awesome show by the team and their supporters! Proud to be a Le Rouge fan!!
Who won last year - and don't look it up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathleen
Gotta love it when people don't watch soccer, don't understand the structure of leagues or tournaments, but just gotta shit all over something other people enjoy. Thumbs up.
Such a boring attempt at trolling.
I admit it! I have no idea. I'm not a soccer across-the-board fan! But ask me who won the World Series last year. Only if my team had been in the playoffs or the championship am I likely to know. I follow and support my team[s] in their endeavors.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
Okay I'll stop but I have to admit even as a Canadian I miss the good old days when making fun of soccer was the American national past time.Quote:
Originally Posted by EGrant