New Railroad Tracks on Mt. Elliott

It looks like GM and/or some other business in the area is rerouting the railroad tracks that used to circle the north side of the Poletown plant. Mt. Elliott is now closed from I-94 to Conant to install new tracks across from the Poletown plant to the other steel/metal works businesses on the east side of the street. There are detours posted that loop you around the plant to E. Grand Blvd. to get around it. I don't know who's putting these in, but I wish I knew how long it might take. Anyone have any additional information? :confused:

Are they connecting those to the tracks that go across 94 by the Packard Plant? Looks like that could be a connection point across Mt. Elliot, although I think others on here have mentioned that those tracks are out of commission. Possibly a connection to the scrap steel yard over there?

Nah, these are for that secret underground government facility across the street from the Poletown plant. Who's going to have money to install rail lines? Not scrap yards...

This is a part of the trackwork that is necessary in order for the "MI train" to operate, the commuter rail that SEMCOG has been talking about for years and years. One of the two big things holding that project up is that the freight railways demanded improvements to the track setup in midtown so that more frequent passenger trains won't delay freight movements.

Note that "MI train" is a completely different animal than "M1 Rail".

Try this! I believe the CN[[Canadian National) is no longer interested in dealing with GM. The track work may be under way so CONRAIL can access the GM assembly plant. The plant probably can use rail access so this is what may be happening. CONRAIL had access to the Plymouth assembly plant and hauled many cars from the plant in the 60's and 70's.

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Originally Posted by Stinger4me

CONRAIL had access to the Plymouth assembly plant and hauled many cars from the plant in the 60's and 70's.

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Actually, Conrail was only created in 1976. So it might have been Penn Central or the New York Central that served the assembly plant in the 1960's.

I had posted previously that when GM announced they would spend about
45 million to establish a logistic center at Hamtramck Assembly, they also
announced they would spend about three million to reestablish rail connections
to the Hamtramck Assembly plant. They are now producing Volts, Ampuras,
and Malibus at Hamtramck. I presume that the construction on Mount
Elliott is to tie Hamtramck into the national rail network once again.

This is my usual entry point into Hamtown coming from points east, and yeah, it's kind of an unexpected headache.

It never struck me as being all that difficult to get from Milwaukee Junc to the Yard under the Mound / Mt. Elliot overpass, [[which is officially named????) as the tracks that run the south side of Veterans Park [[and both viaducts) link the two together. And what if CN owns the spur leading into the north side of the plant? They can't share? But what do I know about RR track rights?

Unless they need extra tracks [[one in and one out) to link to the east yard?

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Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

And what if CN owns the spur leading into the north side of the plant? They can't share?

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Yes, CN does own that spur and the reason why it's not used any more:

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Originally Posted by Stinger4me

Try this! I believe the CN[[Canadian National) is no longer interested in dealing with GM.

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I think this is also why the short spur from Pontiac north to the Orion plant [[this particular track passes to the east of Great Lakes Crossing) is no longer used.

Well, I guess it answers my question as I read before. But I should be inconvenienced why? Because two conglomerates don't want to get along? And who's paying for this? Because I don't know.

I mean, we can have a rail crossing installed on Mt. Elliot, but we can't have streetlights?

It's a new route for the Polar Express

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Originally Posted by Hamtragedy

Well, I guess it answers my question as I read before. But I should be inconvenienced why? Because two conglomerates don't want to get along? And who's paying for this? Because I don't know.

I mean, we can have a rail crossing installed on Mt. Elliot, but we can't have streetlights?

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Buy a flashlight.

Streetlights are a convenience, paid for by taxes.

Rail lines feed our industries that feed our people. That provide jobs.

New investment by industry in Detroit isn't something to complain about in any way. Celebration is called for.

Oh¸and if you encourage industry you will get taxes and you'll get your lights fixed and can sell your flashlight on ebay.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Buy a flashlight.

Streetlights are a convenience, paid for by taxes.

Rail lines feed our industries that feed our people. That provide jobs.

New investment by industry in Detroit isn't something to complain about in any way. Celebration is called for.

Oh¸and if you encourage industry you will get taxes and you'll get your lights fixed and can sell your flashlight on ebay.

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I agree that the rail is good, streetlights are not connected. However, Google "Poletown Plant Tax Breaks"... they got tax breaks to build it, the land for free, and got another $2Million + from Detroit and Hamtramck for the latest round of upgrades.

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Originally Posted by cramerro

I agree that the rail is good, streetlights are not connected. However, Google "Poletown Plant Tax Breaks"... they got tax breaks to build it, the land for free, and got another $2Million + from Detroit and Hamtramck for the latest round of upgrades.

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Google: "Economic viability of Hamtramack without the plant". You'll get no results.

Didn't GM buy the land where Hamtramck Assembly is located? To be sure,
the city and state used their authority to remove residents from the
area and helped to assemble the land. However, I thought that GM
paid for the land. Maybe I am mistaken about that. I think GM has
invested almost 300 million in that plant since their bankruptcy.

Selective tax breaks should be banned, along with political redistricting. But they are the lifeblood of politicians -- so don't expect to see that happen anytime soon.

Although tax breaks are evil and bad policy, I'm glad that our cities and state are playing the game. If we don't -- we become a less-desirable place to operate a business. Sad, but sometimes we do things that are distasteful.

Whether or not we paid GM $2m in tax credits doesn't matter. GM and their rail friends needed the line. It would have happened anyway. Withholding that $2m would not have stopped the rail investment. GM just takes the breaks because they can. And if they don't, they're fools because I'll bet Ford, Chrysler, and Tesla take any breaks they can. We are the fools for offering something and thinking that it really changes corporate action.

Bravo, GP for Life... most succinct post of the month. I strive to be succinct. I fail.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

If we don't -- we become a less-desirable place to operate a business.

Bravo, GP for Life... most succinct post of the month. I strive to be succinct. I fail.

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Thank you.

However, the fact that places have to make selective accommodations to producers illustrates to me one gleaming ray of sunshine that literally warms my soul and replenishes my diminished faith in society. The looters still need the producers and they haven't forgotten it.

"selective accommodations" = corporate welfare

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Originally Posted by Novine

"selective accommodations" = corporate welfare

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I share your distaste -- but I don't see how it is corporate welfare.

In general, Corporate Tax Exemptions aren't given to needy corporations. They benefit larger rich companies that should be making their decisions for other reasons -- like locating in States with strong RTW laws that protect employees from predatory unions.

I've never understood why some law like the Equal Protection clause in the constitution can't be used to stop cities and states from giving away tax favors.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

I've never understood why some law like the Equal Protection clause in the constitution can't be used to stop cities and states from giving away tax favors.

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Tenth Amendment.

You might be able to get away with it under the interstate commerce clause, if and only if, whatever law limited it to companies that didn't do business across state lines.

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Originally Posted by GP For Life

Google: "Economic viability of Hamtramack without the plant". You'll get no results.

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I [[honestly) wonder how the tax benefits of the affected properties [[1,400 homes and 140 businesses) compare to what the plant generates. Industrial taxes are high [[due to high value of the property and machinery), so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't even compare. On the other hand, it is difficult to place a value on a vibrant neighborhood, and the plant certainly isn't keeping city residents employed [[Ham or Det).

Sorry for trying to derail this tread, pun intended, but does anyone have any info on the West Detroit Connection. This project laid intended to put in a seperate rail line from the Dearborn terminal to the Detroit terminal to seperate the passanger traffic from the freight traffic. It was announced several times in the paper that this project was funded and it would start in early 2013. Consulted the semcog site but I found no updates. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

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Originally Posted by mtburb

I think this is also why the short spur from Pontiac north to the Orion plant [[this particular track passes to the east of Great Lakes Crossing) is no longer used.

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That spur from Pontiac to the Orion plant is what remains of the Pontiac, Oxford, and Northern RR which once ran from Pontiac, north through Oxford, through the "thumb", to a terminus at Caseville on Lake Huron. It came under Grand Trunk [[CN) control and was abandoned [[except for the part servicing the Orion plant) in the late 50s. I saw a photo spread on it once. It was a typical little rural rail line.

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Originally Posted by cramerro

I [[honestly) wonder how the tax benefits of the affected properties [[1,400 homes and 140 businesses) compare to what the plant generates. Industrial taxes are high [[due to high value of the property and machinery), so I'm pretty sure it wouldn't even compare. On the other hand, it is difficult to place a value on a vibrant neighborhood, and the plant certainly isn't keeping city residents employed [[Ham or Det).

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Let's put direct property tax aside, and look briefly at the payroll taxes generated.

How many jobs at Detroit-Hamtramck Assembly? Well, I don't know. Let's guess 800 to be safe. Average UAW hourly wage w/ benefits? About $50. Let's use $30. Hours worked per year, about 2,000. So 800x30x2000 = $48m paid annually to workers in our area without thinking about spinoff [[companies that mow the lawn, gas stations that fill trucks...)

So we can either have $48 million annually in our community, or we can ask for $2m less in tax exemptions that while repulsive, are nothing next to the cash directed at greater Detroit.

Yeah, UAW members mostly don't live in Detroit or Hamtramck. UAW are paid above average wages, thus they can afford above average homes. The plant may not be directly hiring immediate local residents. But they are contributing taxpaying residents of metro Detroit.

Word has it that when GM took the plunge as the economy tanked in 08/09 CN took a pretty big hit with it, and when the govt came in to help GM out, CN was put in a really bad position, creating much distaste between the two. CN still pulls GMs from some plants, but not as many as before. They removed their switch from Milwaukee Junction into the BOC [[Hamtramck Assembly) Yard [[which stands for Buick-Oldsmobile-Cadillac, since that's what they first built there). Conrail's Shared Assets mainline parallels the CN line at Milwaukee Jct. on the north side, but I could see CN being very unfriendly to Conrail jobs trying to cross their line to get into a plant they used to switch, so Conrail is building their own access line along an old right-of-way across Mt. Elliot just north of 94 to gain access to the east side of the plant. I believe the state is paying for this new rail spur to be built. Complain all you want about tax money - state money built the old CN spur into the plant decades ago, too.

If you read this thread [[link below) you can see some photos and get some interesting insights from railroaders and railfans about the Hamtramck plant and BOC Yard, construction, and operation. I for one am glad to see the BOC yard will be back in use again!

http://members4.boardhost.com/OtherM...387042908.html

There was an announcement by GM - I believe in September - about their
making a $45 million investment in a new logistics center to be located
on the campus of the Hamtramck plant. That announcement also suggested that GM would invest 3 to 4 million to reestablish a rail link to the plant.

"In general, Corporate Tax Exemptions aren't given to needy corporations. They benefit larger rich companies that should be making their decisions for other reasons"

OK, how about corporate giveaway? Taxpayer subsidy? Which term do you prefer? "GP for Life"'s description of it is the perfect example of the mentality of the so-called "makers" who are more than happy to fleece taxpayers to line their own pockets.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"In general, Corporate Tax Exemptions aren't given to needy corporations. They benefit larger rich companies that should be making their decisions for other reasons"

OK, how about corporate giveaway? Taxpayer subsidy? Which term do you prefer? "GP for Life"'s description of it is the perfect example of the mentality of the so-called "makers" who are more than happy to fleece taxpayers to line their own pockets.

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I prefer Corporate Giveaways much over Corporate a Welfare. Much more accurate. The blame is on the politicians left and right who give. No corporation is tasking money. No fleecing. It's a decision by the same people who awarded pensions at age 46 to my family member. She didn't fleece anyone. Or did she? No more than GM.