From federal court. Wowzers.
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From federal court. Wowzers.
He should have thrown Bobby under the bus,and told where the money was.Now they will give Fergie 24 hrs to think about it.If I were him,I'd cut a last minute deal.Though it sounds this judge isn't fooling around.It may be way too late.
Sweet justice, but I do feel bad for his kids. They didn't do this, yet they'll suffer. Plus both their parents are liars and hustlers, and as a further disservice to those kids, they may have learned that hustling is the way to live. Maybe this prison sentence will teach them otherwise.
I feel bad for the kids, and I wish them well. However, this justice needs to be served, even if it does have a negative impact on his kids.
Let this be a signal to others, don't use the office to your gain.
I'm sure Kilpatrick will get out earlier for good time or whatever, but a good 20+ years will make people think twice.
The hard rain is finally falling.
You only get 25 years for murder. This is over the top. Throw him to the lions while the people cheer and forget their problems for a while.
How much should you get when you murder the public trust of 800k people?Quote:
Originally Posted by George Cassidy
He seems to have lost some of his swagger....
He was at the center of institutional, widespread corruption. Yes, this is a harsh sentence. But he raped this city with no regard for its citizens.
Yes. A rather stunningly long sentence. Sentencing guidelines enhanced the total a few years because of Mr. Kilpatrick's prior convictions and absence of remorse. But it still seems excessive.
Hedge fund billionaire Raj Rajaratnam got only 11 years in 2011 for the longest insider trading sentence ever handed down. He had made untold tens of millions of dollars through his blatant criminality.
15 years for Mr. Kilpatrick would have been plenty and cost the taxpayers a lot less.
Exactly. The effects of this are a lot greater than a single murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner
[[Caveat: If one uses that sort of reasoning, would someone who violated the public trust at a smaller entity deserve a more lenient sentence?)
Was Raj Rajaratnam convicted of racketeering, extortion, and a host of other criminal charges as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by swingline
What never ceases to amaze me is how politicians, business people, etc. who commit fraud, bribery and every other type of corruption are no different than the common crook robbing a liquor store or carjacking. They figure they won't get caught no matter how many they see go to prison every day of the week. You could execute every crook in the public square and it still wouldn't be a deterrent to the next guy.
No, but it sure would lower the recidivism rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by 401don
I feel for his family, too. I even feel for Mr. Kilpatrick. Although fully deserved, I feel bad he ruined his life. There is justice here, but no pleasure. I hope, when all is said and done, he makes peace with himself and God; he will surely never have peace with City of Detroit.
At the end of the day, this nightmare of corruption I hope establishes transparency in government operations and vigilance by the citizenry.
He stole from the public. People's businesses went under because contracts were directed to Ferguson. A city of 700-900k sufferred. Cops aren't on the street because of financial mismanagement.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Cassidy
Kilpatrick has done such a huge disservice that his damage to the city has indirectly cost lives through crime and lack of fire and EMS response.
He stole from the city and used the office of Mayor to his own personal gain.
Screw him. Lock him up. He'll probably get out on parole and serve closer to 20 years, all of them well deserved.
I don't feel good about anyone going to prison, we all know it's well deserved in this case - greed and plain stupidity did him in. He was one of the darlings of the Democratic party. Some had him running for retiring senator Levin's seat - can you imagine that?
You get 25 years for a single charge of murder. Kwame committed many, many crimes, not just one.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Cassidy
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklynYou get 25 years for a single charge of murder. Kwame committed many, many crimes, not just one.Quote:
Originally Posted by George Cassidy
Kilpatrick was convicted of 24 charges, including racketeering, extortion, attempted extortion, bribery, mail fraud, wire fraud and filing false tax returns..
So, he's basically doing a year-ish for each count.
There are very minimal early releases for good behavior in federal prison; I believe 10% off the max sentence is tops. So he might get 2.8 years off of his stretch.
Like many politicians, he was an arrogant SOB. Arrogance is a very bad personality trait.
I believe it was Andrew Arenas that indicated federal prisoners can earn a reduction of up to 30 days per year so it would be a little over 2 years at most.
Of course Kwame will still feel entitled and break rules in prison since they obviously, in his mind, won't apply to him. He'll serve the full 28.
He clearly paid extra for his arrogance, smirking, showing up in court richly arrayed, scoffing at judicial requests and his probation to point of being thrown in jail and on an on. Worst of all, he essentially stole from the poor unlike Mr. Rajaratnam.
I didn't hear is last minute contrition speech, but it clearly fell on deaf ears.
The judge's words said it all.
The message is loud and clear to another wanabee political playas. Betray your pubic trust and you will pay dearly.Quote:
Edmunds said Kilpatrick lived the high life, hosting lavish parties, accepting cash tributes and loading the city’s payroll with friends and family.
Despite his speech in court today — in which Kilpatrick asked for a fair sentence and said he accepted responsibility — Edmunds said the former mayor has largely shown little remorse. Kilpatrick’s defense team wanted Edmunds to consider his accomplishments as mayor.
“He chose to waste his talents on personal aggrandizement and enrichment,” Edmunds said, noting Detroiters deserve more.
“We lost transparency. We lost accountability ... That way of business is over. We’re done. We’re moving forward,” Edmunds said.
What is so sad was that with the gifts and talents he was endowed and the silver spoon connections he inherited, he could have been a powerful force for the healing and salvation of the city. And, in the end, he would have ended up with lots of money, fame and the adoration or a grateful city.
I wonder what he'll do when he gets out. I know it's decades off, but he'll be old, unhirable, and still deeply in debt to ordered restitution payments. I am sure the missus will file for divorce. He will live in poverty in his post-prison years. And to think of the promise he once held...
thats pretty much life. No parole either.
This is not justice. It's a Sentence concocted by a system run by people that individually could never hope to rise to the level of his achievements [[some of them crooked - his achievements, and theirs) and revel in vindictively taking the rest of his life for their own puritanical beliefs of what is right [[they not having been caught yet). He could have been "destroyed" without incarceration and destroying his family. He should have been sentenced to a short prison term followed by a life relegated to menial work but at least be free. The length of the Sentence is disgusting. and does not fit the crime. I always feel dirty to be a part of this system.
...and add to his cost to society the amount of money spent over the last many years to convict him, not to mention the cost of incarceration...over $1 million for these 28 years.
Kwame was made an example of and rightfully so. I have no sympathy for him especially after his arrogance to the court and playing stupid that he couldn't pay $200 a month or whatever he owed and drove an Escalade and lived in a McMansion. I'd rather have my freedom than an Escalade.
I really hope that he gets transferred to Texas- where the summer is so hot. Maybe his trashy mother and father and his trashy sister Ayanna and her thug husband Daniel and trashy Marsha and Marvel and all the trashy, greedy cousins that lost their cushy City Hall jobs, and his greedy-boots wife that used her position to lord it over people to impress her "sorors" with her success in this poor, poor city- I hope they alll migrate southward and forget about how much they "loved" Detroit.
I have such a sense of disgust even to hear their names. Low. Low. Really the definition of scum. It is to be hoped that Michigan will never have to contribute another dime to that degenerate tribe.
You forget the pot of gold he has stashed that no one has been able to find so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
He'll be fine, living overseas somewhere
I can't believe there are people here saying the sentence was too long.
BINGO.... with all the money that was being laundered he has to have some major money [[likely precious metals) stashed away somewhere... especially as things were going south after the texting scandal was revealed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddle
It's funny how people were complaining that he would "get away with it"... and now that he's not... they're complaining that it's too harsh?? WTF?? Now granted 15 years would have sufficed... but when you violate the public trust... there are consequences... and should be!Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddle
Kwame messed up when he didn't work out a plea deal. Nobody in their right mind goes to trial with this many counts and this much evidence against him. He gambled that he would at least get a mistrial and then the pressure on the feds to make a deal more to his liking would be much greater.
This was an extremely expensive case to try; it tied up a lot of personnel and resources. The sheer volume of criminality and evidence is staggering. A re-trial with the possibility of yet another mistrial would have been daunting and demoralizing for the feds. To quote Claude Rains' mother in "Notorious", Kwame would have been "protected by the enormity of his stupidity" or in this case, criminality.
He created an all or nothing situation and then rolled the dice. And lost all.
I do feel badly for his sons. I hope that this will act as a deterrent for politicians in the future.
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Cassidy
Agreed. Unless conspiracy to murder or some serious roughing up of people are involved, this seems over the top.
I still think he had something to to with Tamara Greens death. Aka Strawberry
Mr. Mayor, I didn't realize you had internet access in there!Quote:
Originally Posted by coracle
Ya think?! And his wife still has blood on her hands...or their son's Louisville Slugger.Quote:
Originally Posted by pgn421
Good riddance.
I agree with MikeyinBrooklyn, though. He said it best.
Sincerely,Quote:
There is justice here, but no pleasure.
John
If anything, his sentence is too light.
IL Governor Ryan got 5 years on 22 counts. I'm sure he got a break because of his age and health.
IL Governor Blagojevich got 14 years.
Neither of their crimes were anywhere near the scale and scope of King Kwame' and his band of Merry Men, the Kwamiettes. He should have gotten 50 years.
He acted like child, brought our city down, he took what was not his but 28 years seems a bit excessive. Will 28 years bring back anything? I voted for him twice and regret it now that I see what he has done but putting him in hell for 28 years is too much. If our correctional institutions really cared about the well being of society they would be locking up violent criminals and giving counsel to be judged again, If they are non violent criminals they should be controlled and counseled. Prison is not a big of deterrent as you may think, the death penalty has proven time and time again it deters no one. Our prison system has become a tool for us to cheer on those that have fucked up and will sit in a cage for our own quick satisfaction but will done nothing to improve them once released but leave them broken. Our penal system is out of control with no real modern solutions or even ideas on how to make a better society.
Now the rich are making money by putting ppl behind bars with privatized prisons. Putting ppl behind bars is now a career option and Im not talking about being a cop.
With all due respect to Django and others who make similar points, I must make the point that honest analysis of our justice & prison systems is not relevant as to whether Kwame Kilpatrick has received a fair sentence. Privatization of prison services may or may not be a good idea [[I have opinions on that, but will spare them from this thread), but failings in our systems do not merit a longer or shorter sentence for the former mayor. I frankly feel, in light of his extensive and long-running crimes, and his attempts to cover them up, he merits a very long sentence. I would be willing to be somewhat lenient if there was a one-time, unplanned crime. That is absolutely not the situation here. I hope for his sake that the time goes by quickly, and I hope he emerges a changed man. Thus far, he has not demonstrated remorse, except slightly at sentencing.
I agree that prison isn't as effective as a deterrent as we would wish it to be. Certainly, impulsive adolescent males in particular seem quite resistant to restraining behavior based on the possibility of punishment.
But most white-collar or middle class adults dread the idea of prison. This is not viewed as a resume enhancement. It's part of the reason they readily plea or agree to cooperate. Twenty-eight years means being locked away for a generation. The world will have changed when Kwame gets out. This is a huge statement to politicians and will echo throughout the political class here for decades.
Are you listening Ficano?
24 felonies. Federal crimes.
On top of 5 State felonies.
I feel conflicted. Kwame seemed charming and engaging, but he really was a soulless manipulator with a borderline psychotic disorder of either organic or acculturated origins.
What could he have been IF ....
Insider trading is, basically, knowing too much while trading stocks. Raj got 11 years for knowing too much about companies while trading their stock. He probably cost some investment banks and hedge funds a percentage point or two of profit off of a few of their stock trades.Quote:
Originally Posted by swingline
Kilpatrick was found guilty of extortion, racketeering, tax evasion, fraud, etc... all directly at the public's expense.
The sentencing discrepancy is fully justified.
Didn't know that Carmen Slowski was in court today.
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
Will putting people in prison for murder bring back anything? No.
It's about justice. It's about knowing that if someone does a bad thing, they get punished. If someone does a really bad thing, the get punished severely. If someone does a large group of bad things at the expense of hundreds of thousands of people and exploits the democracy that our country depends on, then they get 28 years the penitentiary.
I knew he was in trouble today when he addressed the court and requested a lenient sentence because the 28 years requested by the US Atty would delay his "come back" for too long.
I dont agree. Punishment by putting ppl in prison has done nothing to deter.We have more ppl in prison here than any other country, 25% of the worlds prisoners yet we are only 5% of the worlds population. I would think that we have grown up enough to stop locking ppl up with these long sentences. Maybe Im wrong and KK deserves 28 yrs but it does no one any good by just throwing away the key except to make vengeful ppl feel better. KK could use a psychologist more than he could use a jail cell for all 28 years. I just think we need to look into different methods instead of just putting them in cages. Putting a bunch of sick ppl in a cage seems barbaric to me the American prison system has become a sort of hell. Most who have been to prison just come out a schooled criminal. I think its time to start looking for a change.Quote:
Originally Posted by 48307
What to expect in the federal court for Kwame's fate?
15 years, 360 days to life or a slap on the wrist! No just 28 years in Club Fed. Oh how is he falling from power and to be put into the pit for his pride. Kwame will be in Club Fed until 2041 long pass his retirement. In a matter of fact he did retire for politics very early. Kwame destroy his reputation, the people of the City of Detroit and his friends and family. His has all the time in prison to think about what he has done.
Kwame Kilpatrick, I will give this message. 'There is way out of Hell! GET SAVED AND BE BAPTISED fast. Then you will be free from prison of sin.'
May God have mercy on your soul.
As an elected offical Kilpatrick put himself on a different level than Raj. Kilpatrick has been found guilty on different charges and he betrayed the the people who voted him into office.Quote:
Originally Posted by JBMcB
besides, it isn't really over, there is always the appeals process, more of the taxpayers money.
lily
Oh well, that sucks for Kwame. I do feel sorry for the kids though, as they shouldn't have to deal with this drama.
You don't put the feds through a 10-year investigation, require 24 criminals turned state witness, deny the allegations the entire time, take it all the way through trial, and then complain that the sentence is too long.
For those of you who think his sentence should be less...or if you think Ferguson should be serving the same time as he is...then blame Kwame.
Had he come clean on all of this, he could have worked a plea deal out and cut his sentence to 10-15 years. But no, he had to arrogantly delude himself and try to delude others and roll the dice with a full out jury trial.
Well, he gambled, doubled down, gambled again, and lost. I'm actually very sad about the whole thing. I never want to see someone suffer like this. But his actions not only harmed the city from the money stolen. His actions harmed the city from the business who lost trust in bidding on contracts. And he set the tone in government that corruption was justifiable at the expense of the services to the citizens.
In the Water Department.
In the Library System.
In Detroit Public Schools.
In the Pension Trustees.
The culture has been poisoned, and I'd put the net effect of his criminal enterprise at way beyond $10MM. It's in the hundreds of millions and maybe even a billion.
And that's just with the stuff we saw. Who KNOWS how much we didn't see.
Kwame, I believed in you. I supported you in the first election. But now it's time to face some hard truths.
I do not understand why remorse mitigates the crime. Sure -- if you commit a crime and immediately realize it, confess, and express remorse then I understand some leniency.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
But if you only become remorseful because you realized you are going down for the crime -- I'm not impressed.
And to those who worry for his children -- this is the best lesson they will ever get. Be honorable. Do not be like your father. The court should be thanked for saving his children from being raised by a criminal.
Is 28 years too much? The only arguments I hear are those of comparison. Forget that other criminals may get off easy. The only question is whether a man who actively and maliciously broke the public trust on a massive scale and harmed thousands of lives should be incarcerated for 28 years. I'm OK with the length. If you think others get off easy, then change those laws too.
Kwame messed up when he didn't take the plea deal. He might have been able to negotiate the 15 years down to 12 or even 10. I know one of the posters said he thought he might get a mistrial to give him more leverage. I think that people like Kwame, don't respect the feds enough.. that they can out think them. I've seen that in a couple other people who had to do federal time. How could the man believe watching every one else go down around him that he wasn't going to go down as well. Well maybe Kwame's sons will get to enjoy the hidden money some day because Kwame definitely won't.
I think people that can't spell out the word 'people' should have to serve Kwame' breakfast in bed and do his daily pedicures for the next 28 years to help save the taxpayers some money.
I agree that KK was an arrogant fool who put himself in this position. Its the penal system that I think needs to be looked at and changed. There are 2.2 million prisoners in the U.S. today, mostly non violent offenders.
No way in hell is KK sitting in Club Fed btw. Hes going to spend most of his life in a federal prison possibly getting raped like any other fish. Just my belief but some ppl dont even give it a thought, just lock them up is their primal barbaric instinct without even a modern thought.
Today prison system is quickly becoming modern day slavery. Sorry to threadjack a little but it is true.
Django, assuming your numbers are accurate, should non-violent people not be eligible for prison? Most crimes committed [[thankfully?) are not directly violent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
I would also be curious for you to make of list of similarities between our justice system and slavery. I have to say I cannot imagine any way in which they are similar. I can wrap my brain around jail; I cannot wrap it around slavery. Please list how they are similar.
I am not a big fan of sentencing rules. I think various crimes should just have standard sentences. But, as our system currently is established, judges have some discretion on sentencing. That being the case, remorse is one of the criteria that is taken into account. If Kwame had been sorry and apologetic from the get go, I think the judge would have been within his rights to be a little lenient. Like I said though, if I were designing the system, I would only allow discretion in sentencing for those that assist further law enforcement [[i.e., testify against others).Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
I feel for his sons, but it could all been stopped. This syndicate of corruption was way over the top, the public trust violated, and it would have continued as long as moneys where there to be redistributed. Kilpatrick's second term in office was basically 'damage-control' mode where the cities fiscal audits were not timely and we continued to spiral downward fiscally with continued 'hook ups' for folks in the inner circle. We lost fundings due late audits and the TRUE financial situation of Detroit remained hidden for a later date of reckoning.
KK should have taken a plea deal early on, but that would have required a mindset and personality of someone else. And that stack of lawyers he went thru... what a mess.
I fully agree with your comments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
I felt like he would see 20 years. This essentially puts him away for the rest of the productive years in his life. I'm sure he will appeal, and I won't be surprised if this sentence is lowered. But if it's not, that's one hell of a message to send to everyone else.
I feel for his kids and wife. I never had to grow up in a single parent home, and have felt fortunate for that. Kwame was a fast rising, smart, educated, charismatic, well liked politician. There's no doubt he would have moved on to bigger and better things with a successful run as the mayor. Whether or not he was involved in these types of shady things previous to becoming mayor, we don't know, but presumably a smart person would think yes. What a waste of talent, but in the end, he's finally getting what he deserves.
[QUOTE=Zacha341;405882]KK should have taken a plea deal early onQUOTE]
If I were offered a chance to make restitution for 11% of what I was charged with taking, [[$9 mil bribe to hush text messages), knowing full well I was taking cookies, by the handful, from the jar, I would have sheepishly thanked my accusers, paid the restitution, and moved on. Mr. Kilpatrick became so brazen, jaded, and full of himself, that he honestly felt he was entitled, and no one was the wiser. That's when the ball of yarn started unravelling. I feel sorry for his boys, and take no joy in his sentencing. I met him @ "The Taste Fest" when he was first campaigning, and was so impressed with this "pistol", that I voted for him. I'm very disappointed in the outcome.
Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I've no problem as you describe it. I think I'm just tired of this idea that all can be forgiven if you just say you're sorry. It takes more. Being sorry is only the first step. Be truly sorry -- and then express it for a few years in real service to others. Talk's cheap. Just saying something nice when a gun's to your head proves nothing about your 'personal reformation'.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
Do you mean many of their problems that his actions created?Quote:
Originally Posted by George Cassidy
[QUOTE=Honky Tonk;405889]Look I'm not going to be hard on you, myself and the electorate that voted for Kwame at least the first time. In hindsight of course saying we shouldn't voted for him is easy but I still maintain voting for him over Gill Hill was the right thing to do. The electorate in the second election either made a mistake or the election was stolen. Looking back Freeman should have been elected. Who knows maybe he was and there was election fraud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
^^^ Just for the record. My referenced above post ends at the bold type ended by "QUOTE]"
Wesley wrote: I think I'm just tired of this idea that all can be forgiven if you just say you're sorry. It takes more. Being sorry is only the first step. Be truly sorry -- and then express it for a few years in real service to others. Talk's cheap." German theologian and pastor, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was executed for participating in a plot against Hitler, articulated the exact same idea in his book on The Cost of Discipleship. Bonhoeffer wrote:
“Cheap grace is the grace we bestow on ourselves. Cheap grace is the preaching of forgiveness without requiring repentance, baptism without church discipline, Communion without confession.... Cheap grace is grace without discipleship, grace without the cross…”
KK was depending on cheap grace, on “praise breaks” announced on Twitter and sentimental little assurances [[Only God can make a message from a mess) to get him out of all this. He rejected a plea deal because he would have to admit to all the world that he cheated and lied and stole.
Now he is paying the price. Maybe he will someday truly internalize something else Bonhoeffer said: “When Christ calls a man, he bids him come and die.”
Kwame's mental image of himself would not allow him to quit lying and denying. He could not change his natural habits. 28 years is very long. I don't think he will make it out. There will be plenty of law school type students that will examine this case. There will be some ambulance chasing type lawyers looking into this mess too, trying to get their name out there.
Nope. Won't change a thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
Bobby gets 21 years by the way.
I predict Bobby won't survive either. Prison fight would be my guess. These 2 thugs will try and start their own companies in the big house.
Barbara McQuade indicated on Mitch Albom that you may earn up to "54" days off for good behavior and that, if that is the case, he could possibly be released in "23ish" years.
These two will survive in prison baring any medical problems. Whatever compound these two land at they will be embraced by their criminal brothern that are from Detroit already there and held up as saviors. As far as rape goes, it won't happen because federal prison isn't harsh as people tend to believe. They will more than likely both get jobs in UNICOR and Kwame might even supplement his income by doing law work for those who are appealing their convictions. Bobby most likely will start a sports book, for him it wouldn't be about the money, just something else to do. There are advocacy groups who are trying to get federal prison time back down to 65% so who knows, they might be out in 15 years or so and it would be retroactive so who knows.......
I hope that the younger Mr. Kilpatrick and Mr. Ferguson don't become adopted as "political prisoners" by various activist types. I found Sam Riddle's comments on Fox 2's let it rip especially embarrassing and idiotic.
On another level, I wonder when the next federal indictment will be announced. I guess the pension corruption case is still ongoing?
Well, Mikey, if a felon does not "wriggle and turn" and fight the conviction, but says to the judge "I am guilty and throw myself at the mercy of the court", he does not force the state into a long trial and use up state resources. This should certainly be a factor in sentencing. Kwame didn't do this, but tried every subterfuge possible to avoid being found guilty. Throw the book at him.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
Nah, the only prison fights where someone might even die in federal prisons happen between mexican/spanish/latin factions. Its very rare for black gangs/groups in federal prison to be involved in riots and huge fights, if they do its usually region against region [[midwest vs eastcoast vs downsouth vs DC vs westcoast)Quote:
Originally Posted by fanniemae
Agreed, Hermod. Although this might be most effectively done upfront when determining what/how many charges to file.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermod
Looking at security levels if Kwame ends up as an minimum security inmate or low security inmate he could end up at a camp type environment with dormitory style housing. Anyway that's a long way from the "don't drop the soap" environment that folks think he might end up.Quote:
Originally Posted by ccal
Kwame will be in a medium for awhile because of the time he has, you have be done with a certain amount if your sentence before you're eligible for low security clearance and after his points drop. Kwame might be eligible for camp status somewhere around 2030.Quote:
Originally Posted by firstandten
Based on what the judge presiding over the case sentenced Bobby and Kwame to I'm almost certain had they taken a plea deal they would not have received more than 10 years. She choose not to go above and beyond, which she could have but didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
The numbers are well known, America has made itself known as the number one in imprisoning its citizens. Im not saying non violent offenders should not be punished but at the rate we are putting ppl behind bars I think it would be smart to look at alternatives.Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyinBrooklyn
Similarities with slavery would be making a gain off of putting someone in chains or bars as todays case is. We have approx 60% of inmates in for non violent drug offenses. If you remember back in the mid 80s we had only three quarters of a million prisoners until Reagan took office and planted a zero tolerance policy on drugs, mandatory minimums followed as well as long sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine [[crack contains baking soda powder does not) which has been inserted into every inner city. We never really had enough cells since then.
Along comes some genius who figures he can make a asston of cash by building prisons and contracting them out to the government and taxpayers. Mind you the companies that run and own these private prisons have a contract saying that WE have to pay for keeping that prison at 95% capacity no matter what. So now we have privatized prisons and the companies are thinking how they can make even more money off of locking ppl up. They start work programs that pay each prisoner $1 a day or so so he can buy a Snickers bar. Huge companies like Victorias Secret and big travel agents use the prisoners for their profit by putting them to work. Locking people up has become a business just like slavery is. The drug war is the main instigator no doubt as we now have 2.2 million people behind bars.
It is sick and wrong to make money off of locking ppl up. No doubt theres big stocks in California Governor Jerry Browns portfolio now that he is in the pocket of CCA and other companies running private prisons now. It costs over 1$ a minute for a prisoner to talk on the phone to their kids at home and a company is making millions off of those calls, Thats $15 for a 15 minute call. That is an incentive to keep locking people up.
KK isnt my argument really but the prison system. We pay about $55,000 a year to keep one prisoner behind bars and at 2.2 million prisoners you can do the math. If we are such a free country why do we have more prisoners than any other?
I really have mixed feelings about KK. I really do want to kick the dude in the face but I dont know where he's been and what hes been taught in life growing up. He fucked up and for some reason he cant admit it. Maybe his ego got so damn big hes goddamn delusional. Who knows.
The prison system is corrupt and the drug war put us there with their failure that could not be helped.
If you were a politician in the 80s, grabbing a get tough on drugs stance was a no brainer but now, today we can see its all BS. Today,everyday people are being locked up so some 1%er can get a paycheck and I feel that is wrong.
MikeyinBrookyln I hope I didnt offend. You were courteous in your response. I meant to do the same. I just feel that when people can start making money off of locking people up and even giving them jobs to make even more money, I feel like that is slavery. I really feel we will look back on on these days years from now and wonder what the hell we were thinking.
Except Carlita and the kids have to live on something, and she recently got fired from her job. Whatever Kwame has stashed away will likely be used to provide for his family while he's in prison. Not only is Carlita unemployed, but she is accustomed to a certain lifestyle, one that isn't cheap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gistok
There won't be any money left when Kwame gets out.
Don't forget Bobby has a history of being a hothead, has strong armed people. Pistol whipping, baseball bat incidents. Kwame hit a cop on his porch. These 2 will be paying for what they did, it is not that I want any more trouble for them. Just sayin...Quote:
Originally Posted by firstandten
so will they ever find that money they say he stashed away?
was kwame remorseful when he pushed that cop?
was he remorseful when he lied in court, on the witness stand about his mistress?
was he remorseful firing that other cop? or to the city for costing it $6mil+ ?
was kwame remorseful to his wife after doing the nasty with beatty?
i dont think showing remorse should get any time off your sentence, unless you help investigators and admit fault early on saving trial time. thats what a plea bargain is.
anyone talk to kwame's lawyer? didnt he want to fire his lawyer ?
28 years seems long. but thats what happens when you try to fight the feds.
the deck is stacked. they've seen it all before.
you think you're the first guy to run a town friends & family style?
carlita was fired for having cash in her desk?
if she knows where the millions are kept, the feds will find out soon.
why'd they all move to texas?
thought they loved detroit...
someone talking smack about gil hill in this thread ? really ?
kwame was better than gil hill? you have the nerve to say that now?
i guess even the facts cant get through to you. good luck.
Too Vuggin' long.
Twenty eight years is too much grief.
Too gulag-ey for my taste what has happened to them United States in the past twenty eight years, chief.
Why bother going to school and smile,
if they are going to kick in your teeth.
Ivan Denisovich lacked his vitamins C and D,
Your tattooed monsters are fed on meds and wreaths.
Twenty what?
OK, when can we start talking about too much?
The more guns, the more cars, the more everything; under pressure and
dense and loosely connected all at once, Dog help youse all.
Django has got it.
Twenty eight candies in my bag of goodies for Halloween
The scaredness and the spiteness, in spite of the justice.
What justice?
Some times the prosecutors think they have the case cold and will not plea bargain [[they do not have to do it). In those cases, you plead guilty and try not to cloud up the courtroom with too much "Oh my boy is such a sweet gentle boy". You just say "guilty" and tell the judge you are remorseful and are throwing yourself at his mercy.Quote:
Originally Posted by compn
The fact that he didnt see what he did was wrong makes me think the kid truly is sick in some way. Im hardly afraid hes gonna go on a killing spree if released. I just think there are better ways than just locking em up and forgetting about them. We are trying to become a better society right? Putting people in cages does nothing but hide the true problems.
Love it
It is too gulag-ey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
Da. Amen-ey.
I'm not taking a "position" here, but I need to ask what are those "better ways"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
It's a given that prisons don't "rehabilitate" and that "locking em up and forgetting about them" isn't the ideal...
At the same time some of those "better ways" resemble a slap on the wrist, get out of prison ASAP, stay with your family, and keep your freedom.
So, until we have actually become that "better society"... where is the middle ground between those two anyway?
Sinca about 60% of all prisoners are non violent drug offenders I would say yeah, slap them on the wrist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic01
And the 40% who murdered your spouse in a robbery?Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
Nice that you're against our absurd criminal justice system. Impossible to believe that you don't respect the need for criminal justice because its not done well.
Hold up, I do not think that rapists and murderers should not be locked up. I never said everyone should go free, WTF?
Lets stay on topic here and not turn this into a legalizing drugs thread...
I would be curious as to what kind of stuff federal prisoners in low security prisons have access too. I wonder if they can go on the internet etc...
No internet access thats for sure. They may get an hour a week in a gym and/or library, TV of course. Drugs are readily available too.
Kwhyme was able to get access to a phone and charger when he was housed in that state pen in the UP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
Being able to choose where he gets to serve his sentence seems to be a curious perk. How common is THAT?!
The have access to email[[Corrlinks) which they can use as long as an inmate has money[[$0.05 per minute) in their accounts to buy credits to send and recieve messages[[texts only,no pictures), they can use the email system as long as they aren't in their cells and it isn't dowte n for maintenance. As far as recreation goes as long as its open they can go which is pretty much all day every day, the library is open everyday as well. Drugs aren't as prevalent and if they are they are pretty expensive, weed cost 4 books of stamps[[the currency of BOP) which is equivalent to $20 and that gets you a chapstick cap full of weed. Television watching is done in several common areas and in order to hear whats on tv you listen through a radio with headphones that you have to purchase because the televisions have no speakers. If they were going to be at a camp they would have access to cellphones,mp3 players,psp video game systems and whatnot. There used to be problems with cellphones in low security BOP prisons but they now have K-9 units that can sniff out cellphones and have technology that can actually pinpoint exactly where a cellphone is being used on the compound.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
Not very,actually the judge doesn't make that determination,the BOP office in Grand Prairie,Texas makes that determination. Judges can make suggestions but it is up to the BOP ultimately because they have to take security levels and whether they even have room at that particular prison and even if they do you have other prisoners who are in the BOP that have made request to go to that prison get first picks for whatever slots are available. Kwame is more than likely going to be disappointed and they might ship his ass down to Florida or even out west to California just because they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannon