Demolition of Joe Louis Arena... the inside first...

The Joe is coming down... from the inside out...

360 view of the interior demo first... on Facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

This has sort of a Deja Vu of 1977 when they disemboweled the theatre sidewalls, the mezzinine and balcony of the inside of the former Michigan Theatre... [[watch slideshow)... but left the auditorium ceiling and theatre outer shell and many of the lobbies and staircases intact.

http://www.detroiturbex.com/content/...gan/index.html

Did anyone mirror the photos? Seems they've been removed from FB and IG and I missed seeing them.

Mr. Gorbechav tear down this butt ugly stadium! :o

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Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest

Mr. Gorbechav tear down this butt ugly stadium! :o

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https://cbsdetroit.files.wordpress.c...4&h=576&crop=1

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Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest

Mr. Gorbechav tear down this butt ugly stadium! :o

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Butt ugly indeed. Steel barn. Good memories for the Wings there and I went there a few times for games but I won't miss the Joe, personally. It was always dirty and old looking.

Tiger stadium is not ugly get your eyes checked.

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Originally Posted by Worldsgreatest

Tiger stadium is not ugly get your eyes checked.

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You are right... Tiger Stadium was fantastic, however, Comerica Park is butt ugly.

The best thing I can say about Comerica is that it is inoffensive. It is a watered down version of all of the retro ballparks and it really brought nothing new or exciting to the table. The only thing I would say that it really has going for it is the view of downtown. That will never get old.

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Originally Posted by Uncledave54

You are right... Tiger Stadium was fantastic, however, Comerica Park is butt ugly.

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you know what i meant

Well sorry.... if you haven't seen the demo work on the inside yet, it is likely you never will. All interior demo images have been removed from Social Media, and even Channel 2, 4,7 images are removed. Someone at the demo company doesn't want the interior demo work shown. :[[

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Well sorry.... if you haven't seen the demo work on the inside yet, it is likely you never will. All interior demo images have been removed from Social Media, and even Channel 2, 4,7 images are removed. Someone at the demo company doesn't want the interior demo work shown. :[[

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Google to the rescue. :)
I was able to track down two images that were posted earlier today.
One on Reddit and the other that was hiding out on a content server for Channel 7. [[I've mirrored that one on Imgur just in case it gets pulled)

Image #1

Image #2

It's too bad channels 2, 4, and 7 let themselves get pushed around by the demo company. News is news. The demolition is what everybody wanted, what's to hide or be ashamed of? It's not like these are autopsy or surgery photos, for crying out loud.

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Originally Posted by southen

The best thing I can say about Comerica is that it is inoffensive. It is a watered down version of all of the retro ballparks and it really brought nothing new or exciting to the table. The only thing I would say that it really has going for it is the view of downtown. That will never get old.

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The parking lot out front is really what grinds my gears. If it had Woodward frontage or a small setback that stretch could be truly vibrant. The parking lots - blocks away from acres of parking behind the Fox Theatre - are too small to be meaningful, yet just large enough to give the tiny urban core we do have that oh-so-magical 10-mile road and Hoover je-ne-sais-quoi charm. It's like Paris in the springtime. Only white-trash-with-money like the Illitches could bring you such grandeur. Fuck them and fuck Metro Detroit, frankly.

One more on Twitter.

It was especially infuriating to see the Wolverine Hotel imploded when it wasn't even in the stadium footprint. The media parroted the Illitch line that it was in the way of the stadium, but the only thing "built" there was a surface lot. Illitch just didn't want anything between the stadium and Woodward, and he damned sure wasn't going to fix up the building. It was also annoying when the Elwood Bar & Grill was moved to make room for part of the same stupid lot. Actually the site where it sat is now mainly, if not all, grass and bushes.

The parking spaces in Lots 1 & 2 could have been easily accommodated with another level to the Montcalm/Brush garage. That would have cost Illitch more money upfront, but I think the larger issue is that he wanted to maintain control of the Woodward lots so that nobody else's development would compete for attention with his "old fashioned" stadium. It's ironic that the truly old-style Tiger Stadium didn't have any of the fake "old timey" touches that Comerica has [[except for the later Tiger Plaza part).

I know all that crap went down over 20 years ago, but every time I drive by the "old fashioned" Comerica Park and the surface lots & ramps around it ringed by "classic" streetlights, I want to heave.

yes yes Ilitches are scum of the earth who deserve only suffering in their lives but what are we going to do about it?

One memory of JLA I had was what I called, The goon squad. It was the group of security that you rarely saw. They would only come out in case of a problem. Normally Toronto fans being assholes. There was about 6 of them, all huge, and had those tight gray polyester suits. When there was a problem they would slowly march down to the problem and immediately remove the problem. Always a thing of beauty.

I'm surprised as to why the demo company doesn't want images shown?

Anyone have any insight as to why?

You guys are aware that the taxpayers are also on the hook for the demolition of the Joe? It was part of the original agreement for the new coliseum to be built. I can't remember exactly, but it was something like $6 or $9 mil.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

You guys are aware that the taxpayers are also on the hook for the demolition of the Joe? It was part of the original agreement for the new coliseum to be built. I can't remember exactly, but it was something like $6 or $9 mil.

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Honky Tonk, was that so that no one else would get it and compete with LCA? Because that property was part of the settlement of creditors for the city Bankruptcy. I had thought that the city was required to raze it for use by the creditor. Or maybe it's a combination of the two? That the city had to raze it before it could be given to the creditors to make sure they didn't use it as a venue....

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Originally Posted by Gistok

Honky Tonk, was that so that no one else would get it and compete with LCA? Because that property was part of the settlement of creditors for the city Bankruptcy. I had thought that the city was required to raze it for use by the creditor. Or maybe it's a combination of the two? That the city had to raze it before it could be given to the creditors to make sure they didn't use it as a venue....

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I'm not exactly sure how the bankruptcy affected the incentive. @ the time there was talk about mixed sport use by maybe high school, college, teams like that, for the Joe. [[excessive, I know) The rumors were the Ilitches said no, and the Joe was to be torn down within a specified time frame after the new one opened. I believe it was the State that was footing the bill.

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Originally Posted by Honky Tonk

I'm not exactly sure how the bankruptcy affected the incentive. @ the time there was talk about mixed sport use by maybe high school, college, teams like that, for the Joe. [[excessive, I know) The rumors were the Ilitches said no, and the Joe was to be torn down within a specified time frame after the new one opened. I believe it was the State that was footing the bill.

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Here's a News article:

The arena and its adjacent parking garage were given to bond insurer Financial Guaranty Insurance Co. under an agreement struck during Detroit's Chapter 9 bankruptcy. The New York firm was a major creditor that lost $1.1 billion in the bankruptcy. Under the deal, Detroit is required to facilitate the demolition.

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Originally Posted by Zads07

I'm surprised as to why the demo company doesn't want images shown?

Anyone have any insight as to why?

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Possibility: Safety violations.

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Originally Posted by Zads07

I'm surprised as to why the demo company doesn't want images shown?

Anyone have any insight as to why?

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Originally Posted by ct_alum

Possibility: Safety violations.

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Possibility: POTENTIAL Safety CITATION

Its unfair to assume that any CITATION written really means there's a safety problem. It just means an inspector found something that wasn't 100% to the book. Inspectors often don't care so much about actual safety -- but are rewarded for finding something they can CITE as a violation of the rules. I always hear that this or that plant had a dozen safety violations as argument that they were an unsafe workplace. Violations don't mean that.

I've dealt with OSHA. Once they decide to inspect a job site, you will probably get a violation. There are so many rules, that complete compliance is an impossibility. So inspectors easily find something. Sometimes deserved, but often just technical violations -- such as signage not being in place, or some railing somewhere that isn't 100% in compliance.

There's no advantage in letting photos out. And a lot of potential disadvantages -- POTENTIAL safety citations are just one.

[[Nothing in this post is intended to say that safety isn't really important. We've done a great job in the first world to create a pretty safe workplace for everyone. But also realize that safety has its costs. Why is housing unaffordable to many? Partly because we require a lot of safety in how we design and construct homes. I think that's mostly good. But we shouldn't complain when our homes cost twice per s.f. as one in, say, Brazil.)

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Originally Posted by Uncledave54

You are right... Tiger Stadium was fantastic, however, Comerica Park is butt ugly.

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I'm now old [[72) & an expatriate living in Thailand. Memories are important when you're older. I left Detroit in 1970. One of my fondest memories occurred at Tiger Stadium in 1963. I was attending Redford High School & we won the Detroit City Championship against Pershing 2-1. I hit a triple off the left field wall, bunted for a hit & scored both runs. Redford won 3 of 4 championships in the mid-'60s. Briggs Stadium was a great hitter's ballpark. I think it's beautiful. Tim Cooper

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Possibility: POTENTIAL Safety CITATION

Its unfair to assume that any CITATION written really means there's a safety problem. It just means an inspector found something that wasn't 100% to the book. Inspectors often don't care so much about actual safety -- but are rewarded for finding something they can CITE as a violation of the rules. I always hear that this or that plant had a dozen safety violations as argument that they were an unsafe workplace. Violations don't mean that.

I've dealt with OSHA. Once they decide to inspect a job site, you will probably get a violation. There are so many rules, that complete compliance is an impossibility. So inspectors easily find something. Sometimes deserved, but often just technical violations -- such as signage not being in place, or some railing somewhere that isn't 100% in compliance.

There's no advantage in letting photos out. And a lot of potential disadvantages -- POTENTIAL safety citations are just one.

[[Nothing in this post is intended to say that safety isn't really important. We've done a great job in the first world to create a pretty safe workplace for everyone. But also realize that safety has its costs. Why is housing unaffordable to many? Partly because we require a lot of safety in how we design and construct homes. I think that's mostly good. But we shouldn't complain when our homes cost twice per s.f. as one in, say, Brazil.)

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Nice try. A CITATION is issued when a VIOLATION is observed. I've worked with OSHA also and have taken OSHA training [[10 & 30).
Poor baby: "My house costs too much because no one got hurt/killed building it". Sheesh.

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Possibility: POTENTIAL Safety CITATION

Its unfair to assume that any CITATION written really means there's a safety problem. It just means an inspector found something that wasn't 100% to the book. Inspectors often don't care so much about actual safety -- but are rewarded for finding something they can CITE as a violation of the rules. I always hear that this or that plant had a dozen safety violations as argument that they were an unsafe workplace. Violations don't mean that.

I've dealt with OSHA. Once they decide to inspect a job site, you will probably get a violation. There are so many rules, that complete compliance is an impossibility. So inspectors easily find something. Sometimes deserved, but often just technical violations -- such as signage not being in place, or some railing somewhere that isn't 100% in compliance.

There's no advantage in letting photos out. And a lot of potential disadvantages -- POTENTIAL safety citations are just one.

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Honestly WM, with a project of this magnitude and publicity, I find it hard to believe OSHA isn't aware of it and doing regular inspections to make sure things are on the up and up. This isn't someone taking down an old storage shed in their backyard. I don't think the Joe demolition is going on under the cover of darkness.

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Originally Posted by Zads07

I'm surprised as to why the demo company doesn't want images shown?

Anyone have any insight as to why?

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Looking at the twitter comments it seems to have stirred emotions,as demolitions do.

It was probably based more on complaints verses the demo companies wishes.

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Originally Posted by Richard

It was probably based more on complaints verses the demo companies wishes.

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What about the Detroit media sites, though? The newspapers and TV took the images down because they were too much for sensitive eyes?

The original poster probably didn't have permission to take and post the pictures. He/she was probably told they would lose their job if they didn't remove them. That would happen to many people if they posted pictures of their work products.

The news outlets probably removed the pictures due to copyright issues. They didn't own the copyright to the pictures.

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Originally Posted by ndavies

The original poster probably didn't have permission to take and post the pictures. He/she was probably told they would lose their job if they didn't remove them. That would happen to many people if they posted pictures of their work products.

The news outlets probably removed the pictures due to copyright issues. They didn't own the copyright to the pictures.

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I think you're wrong. I think there's an alien spacecraft buried in the center of JLA. It was about to be unearthed and moved to an undisclosed location. THAT'S why the photos were taken down, the government.

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Originally Posted by Burnsie

What about the Detroit media sites, though? The newspapers and TV took the images down because they were too much for sensitive eyes?

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You know how it is these days,all it takes is one to be offended and the world must change to suit.

I think Hoffa was moved there before the other place was demolished and they do not want anybody to know.

Then again, some folks don't get offended, and don't change.
They don't bow, or kowtow, or go spineless like jellyfish.

Only the Skeleton of the Joe Louis Arena remains. View from the TCF [fka Cobo] Arena roof last week.

Attachment 39082
Click image for larger view.

Sad.
Is that some kind of room/office on the center beam which would back been above center ice? Maybe utilities? Kind of a strange spot for a room in an arena even if it did house utilities.

Here is a shot I snapped from the People Mover on 10/10/19.

Attachment 39085

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Originally Posted by 1953

Here is a shot I snapped from the People Mover on 10/10/19.

Attachment 39085

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I am a bit surprised how fantastic JLA being gone looks aesthetically downtown. Clear view of the water now.

Has there been any movement on what will go there or will it just be a vacant lot for the foreseeable future?

I wonder what will happen immediately when all the debris is cleared. the JLA parking garage remains, yes? what about the walkways leading to it?

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Originally Posted by bartocktoo

I am a bit surprised how fantastic JLA being gone looks aesthetically downtown. Clear view of the water now.

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So...eliminate a barrier to the river, and then be surprised at how much more fantastic the river view is? Thanks Captain Obvious ;-)

I remember when the first time I went to the Joe in 1980. It was brand new. Now it will be long gone.

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Originally Posted by Danny

I remember when the first time I went to the Joe in 1980. It was brand new. Now it will be long gone.

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They built it so bare bones, I have to imagine it looked run down within a very short time, especially after the top-of-the-line Palace opened barely a decade later.

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Originally Posted by One Shot

Sad.
Is that some kind of room/office on the center beam which would back been above center ice? Maybe utilities? Kind of a strange spot for a room in an arena even if it did house utilities.

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I was walking around it last weekend and it looked like that square metal "tube" that ran the length of the arena held a hallway of offices inside it. There didn't appear to be any major wiring or plumbing up there so I assume they were some kind of admin offices for the arena itself.

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...it/4088383002/

Just shows what we all thought, that this site has very little value. What other city could you get that much downtown riverfront land for $14 million?

^ I would not call this downtown. it's an extremely isolated site that needs major work and significant infrastructure overhaul.

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Originally Posted by Metro25

^ I would not call this downtown. it's an extremely isolated site that needs major work and significant infrastructure overhaul.

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It's definitely downtown. That's the point though. As we've discussed many times, it's a terrible site despite being on the river. Maybe what they really wanted was to get their hands on a 3,000 space garage.

I think it may be a decent spot for that aquarium idea that was floating around a couple of years ago.