Without Cuts, Detroit out of Cash by April - Bing to Address Issue at 6PM Nov. 16

It cost the City of Detroit 1.7 Million dollars to find out from an independent agency that Detroit is broke. This is how the administration tightens its' belt? 1.7 million folks!!!
Bing expects City workers [[who have already given up plenty) to give up more and yet the Clownsil still has City cars to drive, still has a $500,000 office budget each, and money is flying out of the Coleman A. Young Building by thousands a day in foolish spending.
While thug KK lives the lavish life in Texas with no job and no source of income, the City of Detroit is going down the tubes. Why is Detroit paying his lawyers fees? Why is Detroit paying Conyers lawyers fees? Why is Detroit paying Yatooma's fees?
Bing is going to go before cameras again on Wednesday and tell the taxpayers that the wonderful public lighting that they now have may be shut off. He will tell them that the great police and fire protection that they are experiencing now will be barebone. Also, EMS workers will be laid off. [[I am being facetious here) I would certainly hope that the taxpayers don't buy his load of $hit and demand that cuts start at the top.
Cut the fat Bing, and cut the crap and quit being a talking head and make some sense out of Detroit's budget and show the people that you are truly looking out for them and not your very deep pockets.

Dictator like receivership, here we come! And KING BING will be Detroit's supreme leader. ALL HAIL KING BING, YOUR SUPREME LEADER! Kneel for his presence.

I posted this in the other thread, I will post it here.

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Detroit is on the brink of total insolvency. Bing wants to be EM, City Council say we don't need one. Bing says the unions need to come to the table to reduce pension and health benefits and City Council say we need more job cuts. Looks like it time for Detroit to play the only hand it can: contract all city services to Omni Comsumer Products. That's right we need OCP to come in and save the day. Our politicians no longer have the ability to save the city so we need a corporation to do the job. Fuck it, let the ED-209s roam through the streets.

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Detroit can stop paying into pensions and health benefits. They could institute massive job cuts and the city will still be broke. Why? Because the city is not getting enough money coming in to offset the city being spent to maintain the city.

Detroit need to do the following:
1) declare a financial emergency thus triggering the need for a EM
2) The future EM and city leader need to come up with a plan to bring revenue into the city coffers [[increase population to increase tax base) and plan on creating a new Detroit.
3) give Detroit the GM/Chrysler treatment. Declare bankruptcy and apply for a bailout. To build a new Detroit will require money to make it happen. The old Detroit is dead and broke so trying to save a dead and broke city is a waste of money.

All the citizens are getting is band-aid suggestions that we know is not going to work in the long run. Bing could get the unions to agree on reductions and the City Council can get its job cuts but next year, Bing will be doing the same thing, crying broke because the tax base will still be shrinking and the money well will be dry. He will be going to the citizens asking them to pay the city 10 dollars or there will be no police or fire. What next?

Elected and appointed officials should receive only a minimal stipend for each meeting they attend. For that matter, because of past abuse, any payment to elected and appointed officials could be suspended for a few years.

King Bing has a nice sound to it. I like that.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

I posted this in the other thread, I will post it here.



Detroit can stop paying into pensions and health benefits. They could institute massive job cuts and the city will still be broke. Why? Because the city is not getting enough money coming in to offset the city being spent to maintain the city.

Detroit need to do the following:
1) declare a financial emergency thus triggering the need for a EM
2) The future EM and city leader need to come up with a plan to bring revenue into the city coffers [[increase population to increase tax base) and plan on creating a new Detroit.
3) give Detroit the GM/Chrysler treatment. Declare bankruptcy and apply for a bailout. To build a new Detroit will require money to make it happen. The old Detroit is dead and broke so trying to save a dead and broke city is a waste of money.

All the citizens are getting is band-aid suggestions that we know is not going to work in the long run. Bing could get the unions to agree on reductions and the City Council can get its job cuts but next year, Bing will be doing the same thing, crying broke because the tax base will still be shrinking and the money well will be dry. He will be going to the citizens asking them to pay the city 10 dollars or there will be no police or fire. What next?

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Michigan will not allow Detroit to file bankruptcy.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Michigan will not allow Detroit to file bankruptcy.

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What Michigan will or will not allow is rapidly fading into irrelevance. When you have insufficient money to pay what you owe, you are insolvent. If a court agrees that you are insolvent, then you are bankrupt.

The state would greatly prefer that Detroit not file for bankruptcy, but so what? The City can't pay its bills and has no hope of paying its bills. The most drastic measures conceivable will only affect money owed going forward, which is not sufficient to fix the problem. For instance, even if you cut DDOT service 100% tomorrow, you still owe the drivers for the work they did so far this week.

Detroit is, let us say, de facto bankrupt, and the City and State can fiddle all they want while deciding whether to convert the status to de jure bankruptcy. It is what it is.

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Originally Posted by professorscott

What Michigan will or will not allow is rapidly fading into irrelevance. When you have insufficient money to pay what you owe, you are insolvent. If a court agrees that you are insolvent, then you are bankrupt.

The state would greatly prefer that Detroit not file for bankruptcy, but so what? The City can't pay its bills and has no hope of paying its bills. The most drastic measures conceivable will only affect money owed going forward, which is not sufficient to fix the problem. For instance, even if you cut DDOT service 100% tomorrow, you still owe the drivers for the work they did so far this week.

Detroit is, let us say, de facto bankrupt, and the City and State can fiddle all they want while deciding whether to convert the status to de jure bankruptcy. It is what it is.

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Well, it's against the law for a municipality in Michigan to file bankruptcy without the state's consent. If you thought the state was broke now then wait until they have to start servicing their debt and borrowing at much higher rates after Michigan's by far largest city files bankruptcy. They'll most likely opt to funnel state money into shoring up Detroit's books, as well as using EFM powers to renegotiate union contracts.

With any luck, the City of Detroit will manage to enter into an settlement agreement before a financial manager is appointed. Lacking that political will is what got them in this predicament in the first place, so I'm not holding my breath for that to happen, even though it would be the easiest and the least disruptive to city government.

What will probably end up happening would be an EFM appointment. If Detroit is REAL lucky, Bing won't be the manager. Nor anyone currently in city government for that matter.

Didnt they just pass the budget? so why is it expected to be 150+m in the hole by April. Didnt the city council want to cut more but Bing backed out??? I think Bing is trying to give the city away just like the whistleblower lawsuit CURRENTLY against him is saying. B4 a EFM comes to Detroit the State BETTER pay us what they owe. the State Owes Detroit $200m+ and yall worried about KK's 1m. SMH

Let's throw all the terms out the window, whether it's "bankruptcy" or "EFM" or whatever. The bottom line, as Professorscott put it, is that Detroit is on the verge of being unable to pay its bills.

Regardless of who's given the political authority to make the decisions, people are going to be unhappy with the decisions. Perhaps politics might dictate who will take the blame for these decisions, but it won't matter. Detroit will not be able to pay everyone it owes money. Many that get paid will receive less than they were expecting. This will happen whether or not there is an EFM. This will happen no matter who is in charge.

Also note, that whether we like it or not, the State of Michigan will have influence [[whether or not it actually holds the political office) to dictate our affairs. Either the state is going to step in and actually make the decisions. Or it will threaten a takeover in order to convince local leaders to make the decisions.

Since the State won't allow for a traditional bankruptcy, where the debts are just totally eliminated, it will likely give the city cash in order to prevent total insolvency. But this cash will come with strings attached, and it will push local politicians to do things which will make people unhappy.

Bottom line? It's not going to be pretty. I'm hopeful that whatever financial reckoning is coming toward us will be dealt with once and for all so that the city can focus on building in a sustainable way. If that happens, I truly don't care who is in the chair making the calls.

When you owe money to someone and you don't have it...guess what. No one is going to be happy. Let's just do it and get it over with.

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Originally Posted by corktownyuppie

Let's throw all the terms out the window, whether it's "bankruptcy" or "EFM" or whatever. The bottom line, as Professorscott put it, is that Detroit is on the verge of being unable to pay its bills.

Regardless of who's given the political authority to make the decisions, people are going to be unhappy with the decisions. Perhaps politics might dictate who will take the blame for these decisions, but it won't matter. Detroit will not be able to pay everyone it owes money. Many that get paid will receive less than they were expecting. This will happen whether or not there is an EFM. This will happen no matter who is in charge.

Also note, that whether we like it or not, the State of Michigan will have influence [[whether or not it actually holds the political office) to dictate our affairs. Either the state is going to step in and actually make the decisions. Or it will threaten a takeover in order to convince local leaders to make the decisions.

Since the State won't allow for a traditional bankruptcy, where the debts are just totally eliminated, it will likely give the city cash in order to prevent total insolvency. But this cash will come with strings attached, and it will push local politicians to do things which will make people unhappy.

Bottom line? It's not going to be pretty. I'm hopeful that whatever financial reckoning is coming toward us will be dealt with once and for all so that the city can focus on building in a sustainable way. If that happens, I truly don't care who is in the chair making the calls.

When you owe money to someone and you don't have it...guess what. No one is going to be happy. Let's just do it and get it over with.

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It's really not pretty now. I honestly don't know that an EFM could really do anything to make services in Detroit worse [[just today the TRU released a study saying that the average wait for a Detroit bus is 30 minutes... AVERAGE!). The most pain will be felt by municipal employees. Quality of life issues probably won't be affected that much.

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Originally Posted by 313hero

Didnt they just pass the budget? so why is it expected to be 150+m in the hole by April. Didnt the city council want to cut more but Bing backed out???

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Bing-O

Council said his budget was too optimistic and he said Council was wrong. He said a 10% salary cut was needed from the unions two years ago. He got that and it is still in place. He came back for benefits concessions, including increases in healthcare co-payments, healthcare premiums and healthcare deductibles. Still it's not enough.

In the meantime, the City gives tax breaks that it cannot afford and spends money on contractors without insisting on a return on investment.

Close down all the neighborhood city halls or whatever they are being called now. We cannot afford them for the type of service they provide. Rescind some of those tax breaks we cannot afford. Get Compuware out of Buildings and Safety and Income Tax where they have cost millions of dollars over the last year without anything tangible [[and profitable) to show for it.

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Originally Posted by professorscott

What Michigan will or will not allow is rapidly fading into irrelevance. When you have insufficient money to pay what you owe, you are insolvent. If a court agrees that you are insolvent, then you are bankrupt.

The state would greatly prefer that Detroit not file for bankruptcy, but so what? The City can't pay its bills and has no hope of paying its bills. The most drastic measures conceivable will only affect money owed going forward, which is not sufficient to fix the problem. For instance, even if you cut DDOT service 100% tomorrow, you still owe the drivers for the work they did so far this week.

Detroit is, let us say, de facto bankrupt, and the City and State can fiddle all they want while deciding whether to convert the status to de jure bankruptcy. It is what it is.

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Very well said. Detroit could look through every couch and they still won't find enough change to get Detroit over the hump. To be fair to Bing, this problem didn't start when Bing got the job, it has been decades in the making.

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Originally Posted by Locke09

In the meantime, the City gives tax breaks that it cannot afford and spends money on contractors without insisting on a return on investment.

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The city was so afraid of GM moving out of the Ren Cen that Bing proposed 0% taxes to stay in the city. Dan Gilbert moved his HQ from Livonia and he is gobbling up every piece of property that he can lay his hands on. Blue Cross moved their Southfield employees to the Ren Cen. Betcha they got something from the city to make that happen. These fabulous tax breaks may have the corporations willing to move to Detroit but what good is having the corporations in town when the people have to starve?

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Originally Posted by 313hero

Didnt they just pass the budget? so why is it expected to be 150+m in the hole by April. Didnt the city council want to cut more but Bing backed out??? I think Bing is trying to give the city away just like the whistleblower lawsuit CURRENTLY against him is saying.

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This.
THIS.
A thousand times this.

He just got done preaching all summer about how irresponsible the cuts would be.

So Goddamn sorry I fell for this clown's act. In the two and a half years he's been here he's shown himself to be dishonest, incompetent and contemptuous of the residents of this city.

Here's what we can expect to see:

1. A state appointed EFM or a negotiated agreement between the city and state that will give the city powers similar to what an EFM would wield.

2. Massive layoffs in city employees. Most will come from non-public safety departments and administrative levels in public safety. Expect to see big cuts in areas like parks and recreation.

3. Big cuts in health care benefits tied to big increases in employee contributions. Same with pensions. Those city employees who are left are going to feel it in the pocketbook.

4. Sell off of "assets" like CAY/City Airport, Department of Public Lighting, city's share of tunnel revenue, etc.

5. Short-term financing from the State to allow the city to continue to pay its bills while these cuts go into effect. Even with immediate cuts, it will take up to a year for the financial impact of these cuts to reach the bottom line. This will be tied to steps 1 - 4 being implemented. If that can't be negotiated with the city, it will be done by a EFM.

The bottom line will be big reductions in city services beyond what citizens are experiencing today, lots of city employees going on unemployment, those who are left losing pay and benefits and a radically downsized city government. Unfortunately, this likely will only work in the short-term and absent a significant upturn in the national economy, expect to see this process repeated in a few years as Detroit's revenue stream continues to dry up.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Michigan will not allow Detroit to file bankruptcy.

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Why wouldn't they? Pontiac is in receivership right now if I'm correct. I know Pontiac's importance to the state isn't the same, but still.

With all this noise of late why hasn't Snyder already taken the early steps toward appointing an EFM? Did the city try to hide the Ernst report because it might trigger the EFM process?

http://www.michigan.gov/treasury/0,1...8770--,00.html

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Originally Posted by lilpup

With all this noise of late why hasn't Snyder already taken the early steps toward appointing an EFM? Did the city try to hide the Ernst report because it might trigger the EFM process?

http://www.michigan.gov/treasury/0,1...8770--,00.html

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Detroit didn't have to hide anything. The state don't want to put an EM in Detroit. Dave Bing was practically begging Snyder to appoint him as EM when reports came out that the city was running out of money. I have been in Detroit for a long time and I know that Engler and Granholm did not want to discuss receivership because they did not want to manage the headache that is Detroit. I would expect Snyder to be of the same mind as his predecessors.

I wouldn't. Snyder isn't the same mindset at all as Granholm or Engler. I think the big business community would welcome and support Snyder in a way they wouldn't the other two [[Granholm = wrong party, Engler = idiot). If anything I think it might be that the state's powers-that-be need more time to get their hands around it and scope out possible solutions. I fully expect Snyder to drop the hammer at some point if city leaders can't come up with something soon.

Snyder will drop the hammer.

Bankruptcy, whether it's a managed, gradual re-structuring...or an all-at-once kick to the nuts...will be painful.

In the end, though, Detroit -- the city -- will emerge with far less financial constraints and a blank slate on which to build. In other words, this process will be rough for Detroiters [[the people) but good for Detroit [[the city).

Hold tight.

Snyder will appoint an EFM.

The big question is will the EFM contract with another jurisdiction for police services. If another police agency starts enforcing the law in the way it is done outside of Detroit, there will be some radical changes in the City.

Detroit is large enough to support its own police department. There's no reason to suspect it would be contracted out. There might be the introduction of the combo police/fire responders that some other jurisdictions have. There might be more management team outsourcing, like is being done with DDOT. Getting competent department management in place can make a world of difference in employee morale and productivity.

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Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Snyder will appoint an EFM.

The big question is will the EFM contract with another jurisdiction for police services. If another police agency starts enforcing the law in the way it is done outside of Detroit, there will be some radical changes in the City.

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Not to be snarky, well I apologize for being snarky in my upcoming comment but could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently? I believe your entire statement is full of hyperbole and bullshit but I invite you to prove me wrong.

"He's a businessman, he's a businessman. OMG, he's a businessman. That's what Detroit needs is a businessman. Government needs to be run like a business. It's about time we got a businessman running Detroit!!!!"

Meanwhile Detroit is run no different than it has been for the last 6 decades. I tried to tell people we would be better off with Cochran in the Manoogian, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO... I don't imagine the problems Detroit is facing at this point are reversable. We've long past that point. It's all downhill from here.

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Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid

Why wouldn't they? Pontiac is in receivership right now if I'm correct. I know Pontiac's importance to the state isn't the same, but still.

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Bankruptcy isn't the same as going into receivership.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Not to be snarky, well I apologize for being snarky in my upcoming comment but could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently? I believe your entire statement is full of hyperbole and bullshit but I invite you to prove me wrong.

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Look at what's acceptable driving down Jefferson in Detroit, then cross over into GP and drive the same way. You'll quickly learn that the law is enforced differently in those two communities.

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Originally Posted by Det_ard

Look at what's acceptable driving down Jefferson in Detroit, then cross over into GP and drive the same way. You'll quickly learn that the law is enforced differently in those two communities.

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That's your problem with DPD? Insufficiently stringent enforcement of traffic violations? How about the rights violations that led to the consent decrees? Or their tendency to kill innocent people by mistake a la Aiyana Stanley-Jones? DPD is a mess, but traffic enforcement is the least of their problems.

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Originally Posted by Det_ard

Look at what's acceptable driving down Jefferson in Detroit, then cross over into GP and drive the same way. You'll quickly learn that the law is enforced differently in those two communities.

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Typical suburban response. Shameful but typical. I think you are better than this. Try harder....wait my original response wasn't for you but since you responded, I say try harder and use something other than writing a moving violation ticket.

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Originally Posted by antongast

That's your problem with DPD? Insufficiently stringent enforcement of traffic violations? How about the rights violations that led to the consent decrees? Or their tendency to kill innocent people by mistake a la Aiyana Stanley-Jones? DPD is a mess, but traffic enforcement is the least of their problems.

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The problem with some suburbanites is that they have it too good. Because they don't have many murders or B&Es or carjackings they think policing is about writing speeding tickets and escorting city and county officials home. Someone foolishly posted that enforcement of the law outside the city of Detroit is so much tougher. I want real examples like how would stop the drug dealers from returning to a neighborhood after they were already busted since policing in Detroit is so inferior.

From the Free Press:

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Since 2008, health insurance costs for Detroit employees and retirees have jumped 62% to $186 million a year, city records show. During the same period, the city's contribution to pensions increased from $50 million to $120 million.

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http://www.freep.com/article/2011111...-cash-by-April

The skyrocketing costs of health care and pensions are the root causes of the budget crisis, and there are very few options on the table to manage them.

Even if the city had a growing tax base, the health care/pension problem would still bankrupt the city in a matter of years.

This is the same root problem that drove the big three to the brink of collapse, and it is now a major problem for the public sector.

The private sector has responded to this crisis with an elimination of pensions and retiree health care plans, and rapidly increasing copays and deductibles for existing employees. The public sector has no choice but to follow suit. Detroit will probably be one of the first major government entities to have to deal with this crisis, but it is just a matter of time before this situation hits even the most fiscally sound units of government.

At some point very soon, probably within a decade or so, pensions will be completely unheard of, and health insurance will become a luxury only affordable for the rich.

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Originally Posted by antongast

That's your problem with DPD? Insufficiently stringent enforcement of traffic violations? How about the rights violations that led to the consent decrees? Or their tendency to kill innocent people by mistake a la Aiyana Stanley-Jones? DPD is a mess, but traffic enforcement is the least of their problems.

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Excuse me antongast, the question asked by R8RBOB was "could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently?", which I clearly did.

It was not "what are your problems with DPD", as you seem to think, and while that is an interesting topic which you may wish to pursue further, it is a spurious response to my answer.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

Typical suburban response. Shameful but typical. I think you are better than this. Try harder....wait my original response wasn't for you but since you responded, I say try harder and use something other than writing a moving violation ticket.

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Huh? You posed a specific question -- "could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently?", which I clearly did. Apparently you were hoping for a different answer, one that wasn't "shameful", "typical" and "suburban". If you wanted an answer more tailored to your preconceptions you should have been more specific.

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The problem with some suburbanites is that they have it too good. Because they don't have many murders or B&Es or carjackings they think policing is about writing speeding tickets and escorting city and county officials home. Someone foolishly posted that enforcement of the law outside the city of Detroit is so much tougher. I want real examples like how would stop the drug dealers from returning to a neighborhood after they were already busted since policing in Detroit is so inferior.

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Everyone knows you can get away with shit in the city that would never fly outside the city. Wake the fuck up, cupcake. Take your lumps, you asked a basic question and received a simple answer, no need to get all testy with "some suburbanites" for no relevant reason.

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Originally Posted by erikd

From the Free Press:



http://www.freep.com/article/2011111...-cash-by-April

The skyrocketing costs of health care and pensions are the root causes of the budget crisis, and there are very few options on the table to manage them.

Even if the city had a growing tax base, the health care/pension problem would still bankrupt the city in a matter of years.

This is the same root problem that drove the big three to the brink of collapse, and it is now a major problem for the public sector.

The private sector has responded to this crisis with an elimination of pensions and retiree health care plans, and rapidly increasing copays and deductibles for existing employees. The public sector has no choice but to follow suit. Detroit will probably be one of the first major government entities to have to deal with this crisis, but it is just a matter of time before this situation hits even the most fiscally sound units of government.

At some point very soon, probably within a decade or so, pensions will be completely unheard of, and health insurance will become a luxury only affordable for the rich.

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Now this is what happens when you inspire human beings to eat healthy, to exercise, quit drinking, quit smoking and oh yeah say "no to drugs." You live longer and companies have to keep paying long after you suppose to be dead.

It is funny how paying into pensions and health care benefits are bankrupting municipalities and corporations. I suppose things like outsourcing of jobs, gambling on Wall Street and straight theft didn't have a role in these municipalities and corporations crying broke. I bet you believe that the 2008 financial meltdown was the result of poor people taking loans they could not pay back to buy homes.

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Originally Posted by Det_ard

Huh? You posed a specific question -- "could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently?", which I clearly did. Apparently you were hoping for a different answer, one that wasn't "shameful", "typical" and "suburban". If you wanted an answer more tailored to your preconceptions you should have been more specific.


Everyone knows you can get away with shit in the city that would never fly outside the city. Wake the fuck up, cupcake. Take your lumps, you asked a basic question and received a simple answer, no need to get all testy with "some suburbanites" for no relevant reason.

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All I can say is "the truth hurts."

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Originally Posted by Det_ard

Excuse me antongast, the question asked by R8RBOB was "could you provide an example of a police agency outside of Detroit that enforces the law differently?", which I clearly did.

It was not "what are your problems with DPD", as you seem to think, and while that is an interesting topic which you may wish to pursue further, it is a spurious response to my answer.

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Fair enough. Strictly speaking, you answered his question, and I jumped to a conclusion based on what you chose to focus on in your answer. Traffic enforcement still strikes me as a weird thing to latch onto, though, in terms of what sets DPD apart from other police departments in other cities.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Bankruptcy isn't the same as going into receivership.

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Thx for the correction, but technically neither one is good thing.

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Originally Posted by R8RBOB

It is funny how paying into pensions and health care benefits are bankrupting municipalities and corporations. I suppose things like outsourcing of jobs, gambling on Wall Street and straight theft didn't have a role in these municipalities and corporations crying broke. I bet you believe that the 2008 financial meltdown was the result of poor people taking loans they could not pay back to buy homes.

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Maybe I'm not familiar with erikd, but did he anywhere in that post say that the elimination of pensions and healthcare becoming a luxury for the rich was a good thing, 'cause I sure as hell didn't see it. Sounds to me he was painting out exactly what is happening all over this country. At the end of the day, making healthcare a tax that you pay out on the front end instead of continually dealing with this failed idea that we can do this through private insurance, is the only thing that's going to save local government, that is, unless we're content with eventually only the well-off being able to afford healthcare. Otherwise, there are going to be many more Detroits.

Fixing the health care and health insurance systems is as important a job as fixing local government.

My comment on replacing the DPD was based on what is happening in Pontiac, where the County took over policing from the City by EFM decree. Based on reports posted at this forum, apparently the Sheriff has more stringent enforcement standards than the City did.

Because of the size of the City of Detroit, there is probably no organization that could take on policing of the entire area other than DPD. But you might find an EFM contracting out to provide additional police services in high crime areas, or developing areas.

"The public sector has no choice but to follow suit. Detroit will probably be one of the first major government entities to have to deal with this crisis, but it is just a matter of time before this situation hits even the most fiscally sound units of government."

Huh? You would have a hard time finding any government that's not facing these same problems and struggling with how to deal with them. Health care costs have been going up for everyone in the public and private sectors. Pension systems, like your 401ks, were hammered by the Wall Street crash in 2008. Most are recovering nicely as the stock market has moved up. But the need for increased contributions at a time when revenues has plummeted has pushed them into crisis mode. Not everyone is going to be pulled down though. Some, like Oakland County, have restructured their benefits enough that they'll probably weather the storm in decent shape.

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Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Fixing the health care and health insurance systems is as important a job as fixing local government.

My comment on replacing the DPD was based on what is happening in Pontiac, where the County took over policing from the City by EFM decree. Based on reports posted at this forum, apparently the Sheriff has more stringent enforcement standards than the City did.

Because of the size of the City of Detroit, there is probably no organization that could take on policing of the entire area other than DPD. But you might find an EFM contracting out to provide additional police services in high crime areas, or developing areas.

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I think many in Detroit wouldn't mind if Wayne County had more than an active role in policing within the city limits. We have a crime problem in Detroit and though Detroit has decreased in population we still have the same 138 sq mi. which gives a lot of room for criminals to roam.

One of the things that pisses me off in regards to Detroit going broke is that no one is talking creating a new Detroit or come up with a plan to rebuild Detroit. Detroit needs a "Marshall Plan" because this city needs to increase the population. It needs home owners, not renters. That should be number 1 but the city needs to tackle the crime problem, the school problem, the services problem, the auto-insurance problem. the housing problem before people move to the city in mass.

So this is KING BING'S plan for Detroit after all!


1. Became a EFM Dictator.

2. Privatize all Detroit city services from D-DOT to Detroit Dept. of Waterworks.

3. Separate Detroit City Council from the people's vote to a evil ward like infrastucture: each district, each invidual with the peoples vote in each evil ward.

4 Invite corporations in. Give them a 20 year tax break and plan to gentrify the inner cities and expand to the black ghettohoods to Detroit.

5. Transform the inner city Detroit ghettoes into a yuppified culture community with higher rent lofts, supercondos and luxury apts. Also prevent section 8 housing from returning to the inner city areas.

WORD FROM THE STREET PROPHET

"It's time for all of y'all po-folks, mutants, crazies and black folks to hit 8 Mile Rd." sez... KING BING.

For the 99 Percenters and Guy Fawkes

I miss you so, Neda.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"The public sector has no choice but to follow suit. Detroit will probably be one of the first major government entities to have to deal with this crisis, but it is just a matter of time before this situation hits even the most fiscally sound units of government."

Huh? You would have a hard time finding any government that's not facing these same problems and struggling with how to deal with them. Health care costs have been going up for everyone in the public and private sectors. Pension systems, like your 401ks, were hammered by the Wall Street crash in 2008. Most are recovering nicely as the stock market has moved up. But the need for increased contributions at a time when revenues has plummeted has pushed them into crisis mode. Not everyone is going to be pulled down though. Some, like Oakland County, have restructured their benefits enough that they'll probably weather the storm in decent shape.

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It kills me that people are shocked this was coming. As you say, just about every governmental unit is dealing with this problem in one degree or another. Back in 2008 and 2009 when just all private sector financing, construction, and real estate development came to a halt, that didn't change municipal operations one bit. I had clients whose businesses were literally bringing in less than 20% of the sales that they do in an average year.

So what's going on Detroit is the same thing everyone else went through. Just 2-3 years delayed. I, for one, am looking forward to the restructuring of the city. And I recognize that my father's pension will unfortunately have to be affected. But once and for all we can deal with all our problems in one fell swoop, rather than spending 6-12 months in negotiations with 47 governmental departments and unions over the next 7 years. We don't have time for that.

What's good for Detroit won't necessarily be good for Detroiters. But it's what needs to happen.

Bing is ready to privatize.

http://www.freep.com/article/2011111...yssey=nav|head

OMG....where do I start,

1. City council has too many staff members, and other perks.

2. They have city owned cars, let them drive their own cars

3. Make all city workers pay a share of their health care, reduce how much the city puts into the pension fund and have the employees pay into it.

4. Turn over Belle Isle to the Metro Parks and charge a small fee to get on.

5. Turn over more of the city services to the private sector, garbage, lighting, etc.

6 Renegotiate all contracts with the unions....again!!

Anyone want to add to the list.....? Go for it!!

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Originally Posted by Searay215

4. Turn over Belle Isle to the Metro Parks and charge a small fee to get on.

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This has been discussed ad nauseum around here. Metro Parks does not want Belle Isle.

Pry property taxes out of homeowners. Get the State to allow more sanctions against deadbeats who don't pay their property taxes and stay around for years. I see in the Plante Moran study that most cities [[even poor cities) can depend on property tax collections for 60% of their general Fund. Detroit property taxes collections only fund 14% of our general fund. This is sick and a slap in the face to those residents who do pay their taxes. Where is Joann Watson on this topic???

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

"He's a businessman, he's a businessman. OMG, he's a businessman. That's what Detroit needs is a businessman. Government needs to be run like a business. It's about time we got a businessman running Detroit!!!!"

Meanwhile Detroit is run no different than it has been for the last 6 decades. I tried to tell people we would be better off with Cochran in the Manoogian, but NOOOOOOOOOOOOO... I don't imagine the problems Detroit is facing at this point are reversable. We've long past that point. It's all downhill from here.

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If Bing had decided he was a businessman instead of a politician we might be on our way to solving some of the problems. He should have rolled up his sleeves accepted the mayor's salary from the beginning, convinced himself that he would be the one-term mayor he campaigned on and begin to do the things that were necessary but wouldn't get him re-elected. Now people are so upset he won't get re-elected anyway.

Bing to Address Issue at 6PM Nov. 16


Bing expected to unveil plan to privatize Detroit bus, lighting

Detroit Mayor Dave Bing is expected to announce today an effort to privatize management of the city's beleaguered bus system and its troubled public lighting department...

Link

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Originally Posted by Novine

4. Sell off of "assets" like CAY/City Airport, Department of Public Lighting, city's share of tunnel revenue, etc.

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I thought Kwame sold the tunnel?

The tunnel deal was never consummated by Kwame.

Bing's nuts if he thinks he's going to get $200 million out of the State. Detroit wasn't the only community screwed by the state on revenue sharing. The state promised all communities more than was delivered and has been whittling away at the money it sends back to local communities every year. Sorry Bing, if that's your best effort, here comes the EFM.

I just hope no bond proposals come up.. how much in bonds in Detroit in the red for already? I will vote no for any bond proposals.

..several council members often rhetorically speak on supporting jobs for city workers, but now several are openly calling for layoffs.. curious..

I didn't see anything reported about privatizing the bus system or public lighting yet..

..what about the racial implications if an EFM is suggested? it will inevitably continue the narrative that "anonymous" power brokers want to usurp political power from residents/elected leadership, even if that leadership is that which many locals "can't stand"... Hmm..

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Originally Posted by Hypestyles

I just hope no bond proposals come up.. how much in bonds in Detroit in the red for already? I will vote no for any bond proposals.

..several council members often rhetorically speak on supporting jobs for city workers, but now several are openly calling for layoffs.. curious..

I didn't see anything reported about privatizing the bus system or public lighting yet..

..what about the racial implications if an EFM is suggested? it will inevitably continue the narrative that "anonymous" power brokers want to usurp political power from residents/elected leadership, even if that leadership is that which many locals "can't stand"... Hmm..

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Could it be that if an EFM comes in then the council members' gravy train comes to an end? Self-preservation is the highest priority for most pols.

Put this in another thread but fits better here.

Did anyone catch Channel 7's 2020 spot after the speech? One point of it went like this:

Charles Pugh: "Come on John [[AFSCME union leader) we need you to come to the table sooner than next year to discuss."

John: "We will come to the table when it is time next year."

Nolan Finley: "You guys aren't going to have jobs by then, you better go now!"

This John guy was not backing down for nothing! He looked like an idiot. I know you need to stand for something but damn I say at this rate in the City of Detroit you better stand for just having a job! I guess him and his union people are going to be the first ones flushed in the new year. I say take the pay cut and if the workers don't like it they can go elsewhere for work. The city's management is fuct. So there are going to be some fuct up ways to fix it. Get on board or get out!

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Originally Posted by adamjab19

Put this in another thread but fits better here.

Did anyone catch Channel 7's 2020 spot after the speech? One point of it went like this:

Charles Pugh: "Come on John [[AFSCME union leader) we need you to come to the table sooner than next year to discuss."

John: "We will come to the table when it is time next year."

Nolan Finley: "You guys aren't going to have jobs by then, you better go now!"

This John guy was not backing down for nothing! He looked like an idiot. I know you need to stand for something but damn I say at this rate in the City of Detroit you better stand for just having a job! I guess him and his union people are going to be the first ones flushed in the new year. I say take the pay cut and if the workers don't like it they can go elsewhere for work. The city's management is fuct. So there are going to be some fuct up ways to fix it. Get on board or get out!

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Can that guy be as stupid as he was letting on?
He has to show that he's fighting for his union members.

When/if Snyder comes out and says that the EFM is going to be appointed in weeks I would imagine they'll be accepting those cuts.

I said it in another thread, but if vast majority of Bing's fiscal plan hinges on prying $200 million in formerly promised revenue sharing from the state, and he might as well have handed over the keys to Snyder, last night. That is not going to happen, whether that reality is fair or not.

I'm honestly kind of shocked by his plan. It's an insult to all taxpaying Detroiters. It's not a serious fiscal plan, it's a half-baked Hail Mary pass. He is either that dumb, or this was a transparent call for the state to come in, because he can't be serious.

So, Detroit's going to get an EFM. That's going to instantly result in a flurry of lawsuits that'll probably take at least 5 years to work out. The city will win some and lose some. In the time in between, the EFM will raises income taxes, stop paying into pensions regardless of whether it is eventually ruled legal or not, contract out the bus service which I suspect will wildly reduce the number of routes rendering the system out of reach of most folks but probably improving services on the few main lines, etc...In the end, the situation is a mess either way, and the success or failure of the EFM won't be known for at least a decade.

Detroit is not going to get the old revenue sharing back. The State of Michigan sucked the revenue sharing capital out of the local governments' budgets to fund and protect its Bloatocracy®. The state legislature is still trying to shift the focus of the press and public away from the Bloatocracy® and shift it to the local governments, blaming them for inefficiency. In some cases, such as Detroit, they are correct.

Results from an EFM taking over will be seen fairly quickly, at least based on what happened in Benton Harbor. Better city services to the customers [[city residents) and a balanced budget in less than 2 years is my prediction.

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Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Results from an EFM taking over will be seen fairly quickly, at least based on what happened in Benton Harbor. Better city services to the customers [[city residents) and a balanced budget in less than 2 years is my prediction.

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Here's what I want. Either an EFM takes over and shreds everything and starts it from scratch. Or the political, union, community, and civic leaders all band together to do whatever the EFM would do.

Personally, I think yesterday's speech was Bing's political cover for requesting an EFM.

Moreover, I bet that while City Council is "up in arms" about how Bing isn't doing enough, I think that behind closed doors that even one or two of them think that an EFM is going to be necessary to push through the changes they need. Otherwise, why the emergency meeting in violation of the "open meeting" laws?

Lastly, even if you believe that Bing is actually trying to avoid an EFM, look at the reaction of AFSCME's union leader when asked to come to the negotiating table.

My take is that no one...mayor, city council, or union leadership...wants to be on the hook for pushing through the solutions that need to happen. And so they all fake like they're trying to make reforms. But at the end of the day they all know the EFM is coming.

I'm very, very rarely a conspiracy nut. But I think that an EFM is coming, everyone knows it, and that all the political leaders are trying to do now is to make half-hearted attempts not to take the blame for what inevitably has to happen.

Frankly, part of me is hopeful that having a one-man dictator will be able to cut through all the chaos of our municipal structure.

"Frankly, part of me is hopeful that having a one-man dictator will be able to cut through all the chaos of our municipal structure."

This seems like wishful thinking. The largest city that's had an EFM was Flint and they're facing EFM Round 2 only a handful of years after EFM Round 1. EFMs can work their magic in places like Ecorse or Benton Harbor because the size of the community and city government is small. They can go through the entire city government and get things where they need to be. Even if they screw it up, no one notices when it happens in a city that size. But Detroit isn't going to be like that. An EFM, even with a great team of people, isn't going to be able to revolutionize Detroit city government. At best, you'll get someone who can get the finances cleaned up a bit and downsize the city until revenues and expenditures are roughly in alignment. But it will be a brutal process for employees and services to residents are probably going to go down as city employees are laid off. The EFM is going to have their every action questioned and challenged. They won't leave behind a new city government, just a shrunken shell of what exists today that will be hard-pressed to deliver the services that it can on the revenues that the city takes after the EFMs work is done.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"Frankly, part of me is hopeful that having a one-man dictator will be able to cut through all the chaos of our municipal structure."

This seems like wishful thinking. The largest city that's had an EFM was Flint and they're facing EFM Round 2 only a handful of years after EFM Round 1. EFMs can work their magic in places like Ecorse or Benton Harbor because the size of the community and city government is small. They can go through the entire city government and get things where they need to be. Even if they screw it up, no one notices when it happens in a city that size. But Detroit isn't going to be like that. An EFM, even with a great team of people, isn't going to be able to revolutionize Detroit city government. At best, you'll get someone who can get the finances cleaned up a bit and downsize the city until revenues and expenditures are roughly in alignment. But it will be a brutal process for employees and services to residents are probably going to go down as city employees are laid off. The EFM is going to have their every action questioned and challenged. They won't leave behind a new city government, just a shrunken shell of what exists today that will be hard-pressed to deliver the services that it can on the revenues that the city takes after the EFMs work is done.

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Whatever dictator came to Detroit would face the same nightmares that Bing have each night and the biggest nightmare is "how do Detroit get more revenue?" People have to remember that Bing had no idea how to repopulate the city to get tax payers in the city limits so he proposed "shrinking the city." [[ha ha ha) Notice no one mentions that idea anymore?

I dealt with this AFSCME guy during the Kwame Protest time. He would bring a dozen or two union folks and would march around with the standard "No Justice, No Peace" chanting. Then after an hour or so they'd pack up their signs and boogie.

When I asked him where they were going, he said their shift was over.

huh?

What some people don't hear is the fact that all of the City unions, including police/fire have made concessions in the past and haven't received anything in return for the past 8 years or so. When you ask a firefighter, police personnel or someone in the office to give up 10% again, pay more in health premiums, you're asking him/her to give up quite a bit of salary per month. People live from payday to payday and count on their pay. I don't see Puke or any of the clownsil giving up anything. A $500,000 office budget yearly for each...a new car with driver...a "holiday" break from November 23 to January 4, with pay...what is Bing giving up? His high paid staff...his perks. All of the administration lives the lavish lifestyle while the lowly City worker is asked to give up more and more at every turn. 22,000 pensioners are now going to be asked to pay more for health care, take less in pensions. They are all on fixed incomes and can't afford to give up more. ...Gary Brown has no worries...Puke only has to worry because he can't handle his own expenses and needs all he can get.
Bing needs to start cutting the fat out of Detroit government and he needs to start on the 13th floor of the CAY building. Get rid of the Health Department...why is it necessary? Wayne County has a health department, let them take over. Sell City Airport, let someone else take over the PLD, let someone else take over DOT. You can't get blood out of a stone Bing, you can't keep asking the employees to give back more and more everytime there's a crisis. Show me more of what YOU are doing to cut YOUR expenses. Show me more of what clownsil is cutting from their expenses. Show me what your appointees are cutting out.
It's time for payback from thug KK and all of his cronies who raped and pillaged the City of Detroit until it is what it is today. Start calling in those debts.

[[Sorry, I'm venting right now...very po'd with a situation that didn't have to happen).

I agree that there is a lot of fat in the adminstration but I think the root of your issue is

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22,000 pensioners are now going to be asked to pay more for health care, take less in pensions. They are all on fixed incomes and can't afford to give up more. ...

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Sorry, but if administration, current employees and citizens have to sacrifice I would expect that pensioners would as well.

As for the situation not having to happen, even if KK wasn't in office it was bound to happen. The structural costs to maintain the city, pay pensions, etc are significantly higher than the city brings in. It was never a matter of if but a matter of when.

No, the root of my problem isn't because the pensions and retirees health care may be affected...it's because of the absolute waste of resources that has been going on in the City of Detroit for years and years. I have many friends who still are employeed with the City of Detroit and would be greatly affected by the cuts that Bing is asking for. Firefighters haven't had a raise in many years, they took cuts back in 2009 or 2008...that goes unmentioned and makes people think that the unions are heartless and greedy. Police salaries are very low and historically, office clerks and outside workers don't make a whole hell of a lot of money. So, when Bing, thug KK, Archer, or Young start asking for more from the employees, while they are filling their pockets with taxpayer money, extorting contractors, dipping their fingers into pots that are sacred, it makes my blood boil. I don't hear any outrage from anyone...from Henderson, Riley, or Finley...or from taxpayers in Detroit about what's happened to the City, and that apathy makes my blood boil. Many Detroiters have accepted the fact that from any Mayor on down to any Clownsil they will take what they want and deal with whatever is left...which at this point, is a bunch of nothing.

Firefighters haven't had a raise in many years?? Boo fucking hoo. A lot of people haven't had raises in many years, including those who weren't well-paid to start with. Join the club. There are plenty who would gladly train to be firefighters and fill those positions at lower wages. Some people need to wake up to the reality of today's economy.

Has anybody commented on how the foreclosure crisis is driving this financial apocalypse? In which case, much of the blame for the crunch with municipal governments could be laid at the feet of Wall Street's criminal class?

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Originally Posted by lilpup

Firefighters haven't had a raise in many years?? Boo fucking hoo. A lot of people haven't had raises in many years, including those who weren't well-paid to start with. Join the club. There are plenty who would gladly train to be firefighters and fill those positions at lower wages. Some people need to wake up to the reality of today's economy.

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Did I read this right? People willing to train to be firefighers, to go into burning buildings, surrounded by possible death by fire to work at lower wages. Well, I guess the world has gone belly-up. Wow!!!!

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Originally Posted by lilpup

There are plenty who would gladly train to be firefighters and fill those positions at lower wages.

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I have no evidence or particular knowledge about this one way or the other, but I'm curious why you say this. We keep hearing stories about firefighters in Detroit being run ragged with way more fires than they can possibly deal with, worn-out and malfunctioning equipment that puts firefighters in danger, etc. Given that the City of Detroit isn't most people's first choice of an employer to begin with, and that the city itself doesn't fit most people's idea of an ideal working environment, it might not be as easy to attract competent firefighters at rock-bottom wages as you might think. But again, I'm just speculating.

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Originally Posted by antongast

I have no evidence or particular knowledge about this one way or the other, but I'm curious why you say this. We keep hearing stories about firefighters in Detroit being run ragged with way more fires than they can possibly deal with, worn-out and malfunctioning equipment that puts firefighters in danger, etc. Given that the City of Detroit isn't most people's first choice of an employer to begin with, and that the city itself doesn't fit most people's idea of an ideal working environment, it might not be as easy to attract competent firefighters at rock-bottom wages as you might think. But again, I'm just speculating.

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My friend, some posters like to use hyperbole to produce an over the top statement they know is not true. Firemen and police officers are two job sets that requires "putting your life on the line" as part of the job. This is the reason why a firemen would get paid more than someone working at Home Depot. To think that people would train to be firemen at lower wages is nonsense seeing that you may have to put your life on the line.

"There are plenty who would gladly train to be firefighters and fill those positions at lower wages. Some people need to wake up to the reality of today's economy."

This makes no sense. If firefighters are being overcompensated, basic market economics would say that there should already be a surplus of people wanting to get into those highly paid jobs. Why would they wait for wages to go down and then pursue those jobs?

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Originally Posted by lilpup

Firefighters haven't had a raise in many years?? Boo fucking hoo. A lot of people haven't had raises in many years, including those who weren't well-paid to start with. Join the club. There are plenty who would gladly train to be firefighters and fill those positions at lower wages. Some people need to wake up to the reality of today's economy.

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God forbid you should ever need a firefighter or a policeman. Don't call 911, call a cab when you need help!

I have to wonder how those communities around the country with volunteer fire departments manage day by day without the paid, unionized department members? Those poor communities...

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Originally Posted by rjk

Can that guy be as stupid as he was letting on?
He has to show that he's fighting for his union members.

When/if Snyder comes out and says that the EFM is going to be appointed in weeks I would imagine they'll be accepting those cuts.

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I know, fight for your members, that's the point of a union, but come on! It was so ridiculous I want his members to lose their jobs for being led by such an idiot. He wouldn't even acknowledge that there is a problem just full steam ahead on the shit train!

Again, this city has been run so horribly for so long the cuts by Bing, more likely an EFM, are going to be brutal. I feel sorry for the people stuck in a city job right now.

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Originally Posted by townonenorth

I have to wonder how those communities around the country with volunteer fire departments manage day by day without the paid, unionized department members? Those poor communities...

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How stupid can you get? You just keep topping yourself, bless your heart. You know the approximate size communities that have volunteer firefighters, don't you? Troll, be gone.

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Originally Posted by Novine

"There are plenty who would gladly train to be firefighters and fill those positions at lower wages. Some people need to wake up to the reality of today's economy."

This makes no sense. If firefighters are being overcompensated, basic market economics would say that there should already be a surplus of people wanting to get into those highly paid jobs. Why would they wait for wages to go down and then pursue those jobs?

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Where does it say anything about waiting? There probably is already a surplus wanting to get into those jobs, even at potentially lower wages. That's true for almost any job opening in the market that pays a livable wage.

Your comment implied that their are not people trained today to take those positions but they would in the future. But the fact is that there are any number of jobs going unfilled or where people can continue to command a premium in salary because people are unable or unwilling to do those jobs.

No implication on my part - it's your inference. Firefighter isn't a job that is difficult to fill provided there are positions open, which is dependent upon the city, the union, and how fast an academy can move classes through training. The jobs going unfilled are typically tech jobs or apprenticed jobs that take a lot of very specialized schooling or on-the-job experience to satisfy the employers who are looking since none want to bother training their own anymore. Alternately, some of the unfilled jobs go unfilled because the employers have bs requirements specified just so they can justify get a visa granted. The visa-granted employee doesn't even have to meet the requirements that were specified when "looking" for a domestic hire.

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Originally Posted by skyl4rk

Detroit is not going to get the old revenue sharing back. The State of Michigan sucked the revenue sharing capital out of the local governments' budgets to fund and protect its Bloatocracy®. The state legislature is still trying to shift the focus of the press and public away from the Bloatocracy® and shift it to the local governments, blaming them for inefficiency. In some cases, such as Detroit, they are correct.

Results from an EFM taking over will be seen fairly quickly, at least based on what happened in Benton Harbor. Better city services to the customers [[city residents) and a balanced budget in less than 2 years is my prediction.

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Love your registered trademark.

And that's exactly what governments are doing. Paying themselves [[both union and non-union, btw) and then letter other services suffer.

Civic employees should be well-paid. And just that.

Does anyone ever bother looking at actual data and information, or is it just too easy to speculate, jump on the bandwagon and believe what people with ulterior motives tell you?

Look at the $1.7 million dollar "preliminary" report that the City has posted on its website. You should notice the following:

1. As I said on a previous thread, 1.7 million is a lot to pay for information already contained in the City's financial systems and in the minds of city employees. Read the disclaimer page and you will see that this is precisely where the information came from. E&Y did not "examine" or "analyze" anything or apply any special formulas and calculations that warranted paying 1.7 million dollars. They almost sound as if they are disowning the report itself.

2. This new report is merely an update of the cash forecasting the City already does. It just applies some increased "risks" that result in going from a projected 22 million cash balance at the end of the fiscal year to 44 million cash deficit at the end of the fiscal year.

3. What are the increased risks? An expected increase in subsidy to DDOT. Lower projected revenue from income tax initiatives [[more on that later) and lower projected revenue from booting vehicles. Absolutely none of this increased risk is from increasing employee or pension costs. Those are actually still lower than originally projected. And none of the increased risk appears to be from lower property tax revenues as that was already taken into consideration to get to the 22 million positive cash balance originally projected.

So, the problem now is on the revenue side [[and transportation subsidy) and you want to solve it on the backs of the employees. Maybe that can't be helped, to some extent. But, let's look at one of the increased risks - Income Tax initiatives.

The City has hired firms in the past that are experienced in finding income tax non-filers and collecting from them. This past year, the City has had Compuware in the Income Tax Department purporting that they know how to "improve" things so they can find non-filers. Well, that is not Compuware's expertise. So, instead of increasing revenue, they have paid Compuware millions without any return on investment. Continuing these kinds of bad expenditures is what makes employees mad when they are asked to sacrifice more. They have fought these kinds of expenditures and failed to get executive support. Then they are asked to make up for the failings of these expenditures.

Again, to summarize the report, if there was not an expected increase in subsidy to DDOT, a failure to collect income tax revenues already owed, and a failure to collect revenue from booting vehicles, there would be no report supporting a need for increased employee cuts.

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Originally Posted by Locke09

Does anyone ever bother looking at actual data and information, or is it just too easy to speculate, jump on the bandwagon and believe what people with ulterior motives tell you?
...
Again, to summarize the report, if there was not an expected increase in subsidy to DDOT, a failure to collect income tax revenues already owed, and a failure to collect revenue from booting vehicles, there would be no report supporting a need for increased employee cuts.

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Thanks for the summary. I didn't read, and bet few did.

My question to you...

How would you collect those revenues and avoid that subsidy that are driving the need for belt-tightening?

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Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch

Thanks for the summary. I didn't read, and bet few did.

My question to you...

How would you collect those revenues and avoid that subsidy that are driving the need for belt-tightening?

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The City has had some success in the past using firms that know how to find non-filers so that the City can collect what is owed. Perhaps go back to that model. I don't know how a technology vendor was able to convince Finance's department heads that they could do something better than firms that make this their business.

For DDOT, maybe there also needs to be a modest fare increase. It wouldn't eliminate the subsidy, but it would reduce it. If the department truly isn't running efficiently, then maybe some level of outsourcing management of transportation is needed.

At this point, the City does not need to continue any contracts with vendors that are not essential to service or essential to revenue generation [[or perhaps cost avoidance). Have the same philosophy towards vendor contracts that you are having with employee contracts. Sorry, but we have no money to waste - not a single penny.

Make good decisions from the top down, and across the board, and you reduce, if not eliminate, the need to keep coming back to employees as though you didn't have a clue what you actually needed from them in the first place.

In Ann Arbor the bus system has sponsored passes [[e.g. go!pass) available where the fare is paid, whole or in part, by a third party. I don't see any equivalent available from DDOT. It's a feature that downtown employers and organizations should push for if they really want to support mass transit use to get people into the city.

http://theride.org/fares.asp