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Our auto executives were chided for flying to Washington, yet Obumbo hops around the country in a jet and then gets picked up in a caddy, while the people are forced to buy and drive little gas saving clown cars. [[that's if you have a job). After this stop he flys off to the All Star baseball game and will sit in the announcers box with Joe Buck! Big Shot a##! Go back to Washington, I am tired of seeing you and hearing your lies! The same goes to Carl Levin and Debbie Stabenow!
He's the President. Show some respect for the office if not the man.
Hypocrisy from President B.O.
Say it isn't so!
Show respect for a president that is forcing his socialist agenda on us??? He took our jobs away and takes over auto companies and fires the CEO while he acts like a rock star and people are losing everything??? I respect the office of the President, but Obama is never in Washington. I am sick of his bypassing our system with 31 czars that we, the people did not elect. It is time to vote the Dems out of office.
This "socialist agenda" crap is so far off-target it's hilarious. He bails out the largest capitalist enterprises in the country - Wall St., banks, insurers, auto companies - pretty much in continuation of the policies of the previous [[Republican) president. Bail outs those giant companies were begging for, and he's a "socialist"? Ask any real socialist if Obama is one of them and he or she will just laugh in your face. Not even close.
As for his trip here and travels elsewhere, I don't see how he's travelling or doing things any differently than other recent presidents have.
I assure you that Obama is NOT the reason that our unemployment is so high. This all started before he was in office. He is cleaning up after that redneck, brush-clearing idiot Republican we had for a painful 8 years and was rarely in Washington.
detroitYES rises!
Wow! I'm not sure which part of that sentence is more stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by usa1
- If you think that President Obama is a socialist than you obviously don't know what socialism is.
- Everything that President Obama is doing are things that he specifically promised to do during the election. We elected him knowing what he would do. How is anything forced onto us?
I can hardly contain my rage. McDonald's is forcing me to order a Big Mac, fries and a Coke for lunch!
Quote:
He took our jobs away and takes over auto companies and fires the CEO while he acts like a rock star and people are losing everything???
- President Obama didn't take anyone's job away, except for a few executives. All of the other job losses can be attributed to the general economy, which was in a nose dive long before he took office.
- What exactly do you mean by President Obama acting "like a rock star"? The only things you've mention thus are that he flies on Air Force One [[like everyone other President of the United States) and that he is driven in Cadillac limousine [[like everyone other President of the United States).
Hey - I got a great idea. Why don't you stage another Tea Party? Like the one in April?Quote:
I am sick of his bypassing our system with 31 czars that we, the people did not elect. It is time to vote the Dems out of office.
That'll show 'em!!!
I was told that a section of a hospital emergency ward needs to be completely cleared when a president shows up. Basically it's a section that can easily be secured in case the pres needs to be taken to the hospital.
I knew someone who worked at RO Beaumont that said this happened when Clinton visited in the mid 90's. A secret service agent sat in a chair in a abandoned wing of the EW with a briefcase on his lap and waited for a call.
For people who want facts, not opinions:
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090...y-college-plan
Quote:
Obama is scheduled to arrive at Selfridge Air National Guard Base in Harrison Township at 2:45 p.m. and travel by motorcade to the college campus on 12 Mile. Road closure information will be made available later today, Warren Police Chief Bill Dwyer said.
Only those with tickets may attend the limited-access event. Tickets were given away to MCC students and faculty through a lottery.
You should see what they do to hotels. For I time I worked for the government. I had occasion to tag along on a couple of presidential trips. Clinton and Bush. Three floors of landmark hotels in world class cities would have all the furniture ripped out of every room to turn them into temporary offices. Whole floors above and below the Pres and Senior staff floor cleared of guests. the logistics are just amazing. It's not just the Presidential Suite and few rooms on the top floor.Quote:
I was told that a section of a hospital emergency ward needs to be completely cleared when a president shows up. Basically it's a section that can easily be secured in case the pres needs to be taken to the hospital.
Also keep in mind that every time you see Air Force One...there is another one shadowing it in case of mechanical problems. Also there are at least 3 C130 [[or larger) cargo craft bringing the vehicles and security along. When the President travels, it really is an amazing process... if you dont think about the cost.
Obama has a socialist agenda. Here is a clip regarding the Russian Communist News paper "PRAVDA" http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/
"Here is a very interesting and frightening article from Pravda describing how quickly Obama is taking the USA to socialism and Marxism. Yes, Pravda, the newspaper of the Soviet Communist party up until the late 80s. I'm tempted to just quote the entire article because everything in it is so true but I'll refrain and quote only a few passages."
"It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed, against the back drop of a passive, hapless sheeple, excuse me dear reader, I meant people. The proud American will go down into his slavery with out a fight, beating his chest and proclaiming to the world, how free he really is. The world will only snicker."
Well, this is the last thing I'm going to post on this subject. I'm not going to make this another tired old "Obama a socialist, yes or no" thread, except to say that it's going to take a bit more than a poorly written guest editorial screed by a Russian ultra-nationalist and right wing Christian blogger to convince me of it [[one not printed in the Russian editions of the paper or website, incidentally). Obama ran as a present-day centrist Democrat, and as far as I can see is governing like one. Not much different from Clinton, and to the left of where Richard Nixon was more than 35 years ago. Except that he's dealing with a recession/depression and huge job losses brought on in very large part by the lax regulation and extreme spending of the previous administration, which also stuck him with the largest deficit in history. But dealing with this by pumping money into some of the largest capitalist enterprises on earth, as Bush did too before he left office, comes nowhere near any rational definition of "socialism."
As for the travelling thing, how would you have the President travel? Perhaps come driving on over in a pickup with a camper top?
Oh, and to make this thread germane to the forum, and bring it back to the "Detroit" level, what will the president be doing while he's here?
See Detroit News link I posted above.Quote:
Oh, and to make this thread germane to the forum, and bring it back to the "Detroit" level, what will the president be doing while he's here
I was just making an observation really, not a critique. The elaborate and extensive security and travel operations does seem to be unique to the US though.Quote:
As for the travelling thing, how would you have the President travel? Perhaps come driving on over in a pickup with a camper top?
Since we're in the middle of two wars, a severe economic crisis and we've already borrowed $1 trillion from the Chinese this year, maybe he could dial back on the frivolous travel like going to the All-Star game and going golfing every weekend. Stay in the WH and send an aide out to Blockbuster for a DVD, Mr. Bigtime.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
You're right. Remaining visible to the American public is frivolous. If Obama were anywhere near as great as our Great Leader [[2001-2009), he would just go on vacation every weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Det_ard
usa1, where were you when President Bush attended the All Star games? True, he didn't travel much to visit citizens in places like Michigan in his last term, but that wasn't necessarily a good thing. He took all those accoutrements, planes, cars, Secret Service, White House staff and such, when he went on vacation, too. Be careful, it sounds like you are mad enough to have a stroke, just because you don't happen to like the current office holder, even though the procedures and appearances are no different than the last several officeholders.
Welcome back, CraigD! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by usa1
Would you have rather he flown Northwest Airlines and taken a Metro Car from the airport?
At least he's coming to Detroit. You all could really use the spotlight right now, in case you hadn't noticed the local economy disintegrating...
[QUOTE=Fnemecek;44229][*]The only things you've mention thus are that he is driven in Cadillac limousine [[like everyone other President of the United States).[/LIST]
Not true. Harry Truman was so outraged @ the dough General Motors donated to Owosso Homeboy Thomas Dewey's campaign he cancelled the Presidential Cadillac contract & brought in Ford, and he made it a point to drive a Chrysler as his post-Presidency car. Obama the Primary Candidate attacked the Big 3 to their faces citing his bad MPG data, so Obama the President's going to force unrealistic CAFE standards on them to make up for his f-up-it's like the drug commercials;, this is your Federal Gov't, this is your Federal Gov't on the Chicago Political Machine;
http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...ance-cars.html
Well, not sure how we compare to other countries in terms of this, but assassination attempts on the U.S. President isn't exactly a rare occurrence. Guns have been shot directly at 3 of the last 8 POTUSs, with two of them actually being wounded by the gunfire. The White House has been shot at several times. People have attempted to fly planes into the WH on multiple occasions. Even GWB had live grenades thrown at him during a speech as the sitting President. We also had a Presidential candidate be assassinated too, that is still a fairly recent historical event.Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey
Add to this that Obama is a "historic first", and that there are conspiracy theories running rampant about everything from his eligibility to be POTUS, to him possibly being the anti-Christ and well I'm surprised that he's even allowed to move about as much as he does.
[[On a related, I saw his motorcade when he and the First Lady were in NYC for that date night last month. The street that he was on when he passed me was so narrow that pedestrians on the street could easily see right into the limo. Other than the streets being blocked off, it was definitely not as elaborate as some of the other presidential motorcades I've seen.)
Yeah, Obama is so underexposed. He has to remain visible or we'll forget who's President. We need more coverage of Michael Jackson too, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto
We don't need a "spotlight", every knows we're fucked. We need action, not a drive-by PR event. What's Obama doing to specifically help the state that'll soon have a 20% unemployment rate?Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
What do you think he should do to stop the 20% unemployment rate in Mich within oh , a six month time frame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Det_ard
Target additional stimulus funds to the state based on our dire situation.
Also, he should have forced Congress to come up with a better stimulus bill, one that was more front loaded for immediate effect and one that was less pork-laden and ideologically driven.
I didn't say and don't think that he can stop Michigan's unemployment rate from rising rapidly in the next few months, but he's not doing what he ought to do.
And then if Obama does nothing but stay in DC [[or better yet, an "undisclosed location"), simple-minded folk like you accuse him of being "out-of-touch" and a "Washington insider".Quote:
Originally Posted by Det_ard
Which is it???
He can still travel, he just ought to cut back on the frivolities. We are at war, soldiers are in harm's way and this chickenhawk President is out living it up. And please shove your "simple-minded folks" name-calling up your ass. Thank you kindly.
Maybe you wouldn't appear to be simple minded if you actually put some thoughts into your posts. Witness:Quote:
Originally Posted by Det_ard
1. Name these "frivolities" of which you speak.
2. Why is our President expected to sacrifice his personal safety and security during a time of war, but the average American isn't expected to sacrifice jack shit?
3. Demonstrate how President Obama is "living it up"? Has he been hanging out at the family cottage in Kennebunkport or something?
1. Date-night in Chicago, Broadway show, All-Star game, 11 golf rounds already. That's just from memory, there's more. Any time he travels it costs big money, we're in an economic crisis, and fighting two wars, not that he or you apparently give a shit.
2. Non-sequiter, and non-sensible. The President is safer when he stays in DC. The average American has been sacrificing economically and some are serving in the military.
3. See #1. He ought to be more circumspect.
I have a feeling Obama could take a dump in your Cheerios and you'd think it was a special treat. Whatever, save your critical thinking skills for when the next guy gets elected.
What stupidity. I think American presidents have been known to travel around the U.S. before.
You're right. Obama should cut that shit out and just fly back home every weekend to cut switchgrass. That would be more American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Det_ard
1. When did Obama take his wife on a date to Chicago? You're aware that the President gets invited to functions like the All-Star Game, correct? It's not like he wakes up and says, "Oh boy--let's see where I feel like going today!" I bet you and your significant other go out on occasion to relieve stress. Now imagine what it's like when your job lasts 24/7. Geez, just because Bush was a homebody and hated being in DC [[he made no secret of that), Obama catches hell just because he wants to get a fucking cheeseburger and interact with "real 'mericans".
2. The President may be safer in DC, but you're aware that his job requires him to travel all around the world. This didn't seem to be such a problem for the President until 6 months ago. Now why could that be...? Did you give Bush II this much hell when the first weekend he spent in DC was the dedication of the World War II Memorial, on Memorial Day weekend, 2002???
3. Your use of the word "ought" tells me you're just making shit up. If everyone did what you think they "ought" to do, the world would be just perfect, wouldn't it?
[quote=FlyingJ;44318]Okay, you got me. One of the Presidents of the United States did not drive a Cadillac. However, that still does not mean that President Obama is acting inappropriately by using the same car that almost every other president in the modern era has used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnemecek
Quote:
Obama the Primary Candidate attacked the Big 3 to their faces citing his bad MPG data, so Obama the President's going to force unrealistic CAFE standards on them to make up for his f-up.
- Would you have preferred that he attacked their fuel economy behind their backs?
- Regarding the CAFE standards, we're talking about a 29% improvement over the course of 7 years - or 4.2% per year. If that is so "unrealistic" then why has every automotive company around - and the UAW - endorsed it?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/A-Cul...limate-Change/
Gotta love someone calling Obama a "chicken-hawk" over wars started by a deserter and a "I had better things to do" draft dodger."
Look, I don't like the imperial trappings of the present-day presidency very much at all, and I really dislike all the airport closures, street closures, really pushy law enforcement, and other gross inconveniences, some of which really seem unnecessary. But to pin this on Obama, who is not doing anything differently and more extravagantly than any of his recent predecessors, is just bizarre and ridiculous. And I do understand the extra need for protection for this particular president, since even a cursory examination of Google will bring you to sites that question his legitimacy as president [[despite winning the election by a wide margin), stir up virulent racial hate around him, and often come just short of openly inciting violence against him.
[QUOTE=Fnemecek;44359]Well, not to be nit-picky, but Cadillacs didn't come back into usage for the presidential limo until the Clinton administration. They'd all been Lincoln's before that since at least the Kennedy admin.Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingJ
Thanks, usa1, for starting this sensible, reasoned discussion. Nope, no prejudices on this thread!
Decline has been decades in the making, and it's going to take more than a few months to turn it around. And it won't be turned around unless folks come to their senses, make serious sacrifices and stop sqwaking about bogeymen like "socialism."
I don't agree with everything Obama is doing, but some people will find fault with everything he's doing, even as they said nothing while Bush was lying us into war. Even as they said nothing as Bush did next to nothing as we faced an economic collapse that was apparent at least two years ago.
Plain and simple, give the man a chance. Obama-haters, how about some reason instead of ridicule?
I also hate to be nitpicky....but Reagan had caddy's. Really though the brand is almost irrelevant since the recent iterations are hand build, one of a kind, and only barely resemble anything that comes of a Cadillac line.Quote:
Well, not to be nit-picky, but Cadillacs didn't come back into usage for the presidential limo until the Clinton administration. They'd all been Lincoln's before that since at least the Kennedy admin.
And this is constitutionally legal HOW?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnemecek
You may not like it but Obama had the opportunity to really wind things down in Iraq and Afghanistan but opted not to. Of course Bush started the war, that's on him exclusively. But only a syncophant would give Obama a free pass for continuing the war at the same level. He's just moving the pieces around.Quote:
Originally Posted by EastsideAl
But this is not 1999 under Clinton. Do we have a huge economic crisis or do we not? Are we fighting two wars or are we not? Ought Obama's actions reflect that or not?Quote:
Look, I don't like the imperial trappings of the present-day presidency very much at all, and I really dislike all the airport closures, street closures, really pushy law enforcement, and other gross inconveniences, some of which really seem unnecessary. But to pin this on Obama, who is not doing anything differently and more extravagantly than any of his recent predecessors, is just bizarre and ridiculous.
Remember Florida 2000? Ohio 2004? Diebold conspiracy theories? "Bush was selected, no elected"?Quote:
And I do understand the extra need for protection for this particular president, since even a cursory examination of Google will bring you to sites that question his legitimacy as president [[despite winning the election by a wide margin),
As opposed to the love and bonhomenie from the far left over the last eight years? The perception of a threat to Obama is way overblown, just like all the prognostications that predicted that white America would never vote for a black man as President.Quote:
stir up virulent racial hate around him, and often come just short of openly inciting violence against him.
Hey, you Obama haters. Be glad it's not Hillary.
Well, since you want a constitutional argument, here goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZRX Doug
First, the United States Congress used its powers pursuant to Article I, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution to pass Public Law 110-343 [[a/k/a the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008), which created the Troubled Asset Relief Program. President George W. Bush signed it into law on October 3, 2008, in accordance with Article I, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution.
Acting upon the statutory authority granted to him said law, U.S. Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson provided funds to a variety of troubled companies and received stock in the aforementioned companies as a result.
Additional stock was received under a series of separate transactions for the automotive industry that were authorized and empowered pursuant to Article I, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution.
The rights of the U.S. Government, as a shareholder in these various companies, are specified in the Articles of Incorporation of the said companies as well as by statues previously enacted in the home states of the aforementioned companies. In each instance, the shareholders [[a/k/a the U.S. Government) are specifically empowered elect and/or remove the management of the companies that they own.
The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 granted the authority to exercise such control to the Secretary of the Treasury, as an agent of the U.S. Government. Acting upon said statutory authority, the Secretary removed the management in instances where he deemed it be appropriate.
One can make public policy and economic argument as to whether or not removing the previous management teams was the best option. However, that argument is separate from the legal argument as to whether or not it was in accordance with the Constitution.
Sources for the above:
- The U.S. Constitution;
- The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008; and
- An article on shareholder rights @ http://www.enotes.com/everyday-law-e...eholder-rights
George W Bush set a record for most vacation days ever taken by a sitting U.S. President. And all you Obama critics didn't utter ONE WORD about all those golf trips Bush took or all the taxpayer dollars spent on his travel and security so he could go clear brush on his ranch in Texas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Det_ard
But then again, it's the typical Right Wing double standard. It's only "bad" if Obama does it. You guys had no problems with this stuff when Bush did it.
Fnemecek, thank you for the lesson in constitutional law.
Wolverine, show me the part where Bush quadrupled the budget deficit in his first two months in office and I'll be impressed with the "what about Bush?" diversions from Obama-related questions..in the meantime, the topic at hand is NOT the last president [[who started a war that was questionable at best), but the current one. [[who is burying the country in debt at an incredible pace)
How do you feel about the cap & trade bill that's going to sail thru the democrat-majority senate? Does it bother you in the slightest that an unread bill based on junk science is about to bury any chance of American manufacturers competing on a level playing field with the rest of the world?
Half that deficit was inherited from Bush, was it not? The $700 billion TARP plan was passed in October 2008 and signed by President George W Bush. You can't pin that on Obama. Nor is it fair to blame the recession [[and the resulting decline in federal revenue) on Obama. The recession started in early 2008. If you're handing out blame, then half of the deficit goes to Bush. So is it fair to criticize him now?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZRX Doug
The only thing you can really pin on Obama is the Stimulus. Fine. $780 billion, that's all Obama. The $700 billion TARP plan belongs to Bush. The $700 billion we spent on Iraq belongs to Bush. If you're parsing out credit, then give credit where credit is due.
And during which Presidency was NAFTA signed into law, and the "push" for easing up mortgage requirements? Such as 125% of sale price mortgages, 10 years interest only? There's more than enough blame to go around on past administrations.
You're welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZRX Doug
Cap & trade doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as the fact that some people still refer to climate change as "junk science".Quote:
How do you feel about the cap & trade bill that's going to sail thru the democrat-majority senate? Does it bother you in the slightest that an unread bill based on junk science is about to bury any chance of American manufacturers competing on a level playing field with the rest of the world?
Attachment 2298
Sour Grapes
You'd think people would be grateful for a president who cared enough about the region to go out of his way to pay a visit despite his other pressing problems. Remember how the previous president shunned meeting with automakers for so long? Why did he do that anyway?
Keep it up. The more you believe you're rowing your boat in the right direction the better. :D
Looks like this thread has been created and tag-teamed by a couple of Rethuglican fascists.
Enough with the "socialist" bullcrap. George Tush and Prick Cheney with a Rethuglican controlled congress got us here, now the adults have to bail out these criminals.
Obama came to speak at a community college, and he's going to the All-Star game to throw out the ball. Big deal.
What sort of idea was this thread about, anyway? "Obama is in town" yeah, and???
Sorry, but I'm not "grateful" that he graced the state with a visit. First time since he was elected, right? What has he done except to push GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy. Cap and Trade will be fantastic as a recovery program for the country. Not to mention the foreclosure crisis. So what he he done?
Sorry, Fne..but when there are just as many scientists who disagree as there are who agree, the theory deserves more proving before the world jumps on the expensive "Unpleasant Truth" bandwagon..Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnemecek
If I was your President, I too would take a plane to the All Star game and HELL any other sporting event I could weasel my way into with the title of President. But that would never happen anyway. And from the angle they showed the Presidents pitch It was hard to see what it did ?, where it went?etc. My Dad the old time Dem was furious at this.I tend to listen to him as he lived through the depression, FDR and the last 85 yrs. I think that Obama pitch might be his final straw.
lok ok lets see here. you complain this is his first visit to Michigan. If he wernt to all 50 states a couple of times already would you complain about to much traveling by the president?Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelhead
He pushed GM and Chrysler in bankruptcy. Like they wouldn't have gone in to it anyway?
The whole world is in an economic crisis created largley by guess who? The USA! Obama was not president when all these troubles were created.
unfortunetly the US created such an economic calamity, the whole world is in the gutter now, you want it to be solved already. How come most of the whole world is sinking? Obama should have put on his Superman Cape spun around in a telephone booth and poof solved the world's economic problems?
I don't understand why folks are upset about this ? Did you expect him to just keep giving money to the automakers while Rick Waggoner myopically chased a market share number that GM hadn't seen in years and weren't going to see probably ever again. When did doing the same things and hoping for a different result become any thing other than a sign of insanity. If your child made bad decisions which caused you to come out of your pocket constantly, I bet at some point you would insist on some fundamental changes before you would keep throwing money at the kid.Quote:
Originally Posted by shovelhead
Keeping a private enterprise capitalist as CEO would not allow the hostile takeover planned by Karl Obama.