Lower Wooward Concept Retail Plans

Im a local entreprenuer who works, live, and play downtown. I walk alot around central/lower woodward area with my dog :cool: and cant help but see potential. So Ive been doing some research and notice the wide sidewalks, huge open ground level retail to fit nice but not expensive establishments. I believe if you build, they will come.... so I came up with what will work Downtown as a nice shopping District. I envision a similiar Chicago Mag Mile...small version though. The infrastructure is there and ready for retail and with Light-rail on Woodward. Heres my concept:

• Anchor retail: Marshalls
• Footlocker
• Old Navy
• Walgreens
• Express Men/Women
• Star Theatre
• P.F Chang
• Cheesecake Factory
• T.G.I.Fridays
• Gap
• Apple Store
• other specialty or smaller stores/restaurant.

Woodward Av will become a thriving shopping district, Grand circus Park and Campus Martius Park will be anchor for hang out after shopping and out on the town. Creating a 24hr center....BUILD AND THEY WILL COME!:cool:

PLEASE tell me you are joking, right?

Oh my gosh.

1. Start thread on DetroitYes
2. ???
3. Profit.

I think you've pretty much nailed it, I'd reconsider the TGI Fridays, though. I'd rather see a Max & Ermas, as it's a little more upscale.

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Originally Posted by BrushStart

I think you've pretty much nailed it, I'd reconsider the TGI Fridays, though. I'd rather see a Max & Ermas, as it's a little more upscale.

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I think it should be an Applebee's, and it should be built inside a life-size replica of the Graf Zeppelin moored to the roof of the Guardian Building.

What makes this different from Northland, Fairlane, Somerset, Oakland, Fountainwalk, 12 Oaks, or any of the other big malls/chain store strip malls anywhere in the burbs? Or for that matter, anywhere in the US. I feel like everywhere I go I see nothing but Express outlet stores, WalMarts and Cheesecake Factories. Areas that are clones of one another. Total boring nothingness. Why do I always have to have the same ten retailers shoved in my face when I go shopping?

Corporations gave up on Detroit a long time ago and they're not gonna flock back en masse in the way you're proposing. We need to rebuild from the ground up, with home-grown entrepreneurs and locally-owned businesses. A chain anchor here or there is not bad. But I would hate to see Merchant's Row turn into an outdoor Great Lakes Crossing. Ugh...

They're gonna kick yo ass LOL

Where have you been Gthomas!?

I don't mean to seem rude here, but you've been walking around lower Woodward and coming up with ideas for at least eight years now. What are you doing to actually get anything done?

In the past five years you have seriously suggested:

• A multi level Detroit themed McDonalds
• Ritz Carlton in the Book Tower
• TGI Fridays
• Cheesecake Factory, on multiple occasions
• Hard Rock Hotel
• A gourmet grocer
• A cafe on Capitol Park
• A multi-million dollar loft development on Capitol Park
• Countless high end retail outlets
• Countless aesthetic upgrades

Quote:

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Posted by Gthomas on Sunday, July 01, 2007;

Link: http://atdetroit.net/forum/messages/...tml?1178142809

Im wondering if Donald Trump ever consider building here or will he ever consider soon. Im wondering why Detroit seems like the city that never builds up and having their limit of 15-story building to be build. They never tried to go taller or grand. Most major cities right now have at least 4 or more 40-story skyscrapers being build or proposed but we have 5 to 15-story being build and we praising those projects like it has a effect on the city. The tallest building in detroit is the Rencen and its only 70-story or something like that. We need more residential skyscrapers not office towers. Chicago's downtown consist of more residential skyscraper than office towers and they build 80-150 story high buildings..... DETROIT NEEDS TO BUILD UP and fill that skyline up. Im in school now, a Drafting & Urban design major in Architecture and i have about 2 years left and i will be the first to test the market and work on building detroit's first 90-100 story residential skyscraper with a few other 30-50 story building

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PS: Augustiner, Coin-O-Matic Laundromat mystery solved. Clearly those items were needed for the Detroit Trump Tower Cheesecake Factory.....

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Originally Posted by Augustiner

I think it should be an Applebee's, and it should be built inside a life-size replica of the Graf Zeppelin moored to the roof of the Guardian Building.

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Either that, or it could be a Ruby Tuesday built on the deck of a replica of the Whitestar Line's Titanic that we'll set sail down the river.

Hey,

Gthomas has one very important thing that is correct...Detroit WOULD become a shopping destination. It may be like somerset or someplace in Arizona but people will show.

However, I think most people are thinking "put your money where your mouth is."

gthomas, your enthusiasm is what Downtown Detroit needs but your vision is way off. If you travel down I-75 headed toward Downtown Detroit, you pass a Footlocker, Marshalls about 4 Walgreens, Express Men/Women, a Star Theatre, a T.G.I.Fridays, and a Gap. Why would suburbanites go downtown for all of these chains while driving past the same stores?

Establish an environment where independent local businesses can start and operate at low costs with no red tape and your business district will thrive.

The chain Subway Restaurant at Grand Circus Park does not keep Detroit on the map by attracting national news coverage like a Slow's restaurant does. Chain stores previously mentioned usually signal the decline of a cool desireable shopping district.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gthomas

Im a local entreprenuer who works, live, and play downtown. I walk alot around central/lower woodward area with my dog :cool: and cant help but see potential. So Ive been doing some research and notice the wide sidewalks, huge open ground level retail to fit nice but not expensive establishments. I believe if you build, they will come.... so I came up with what will work Downtown as a nice shopping District. I envision a similiar Chicago Mag Mile...small version though. The infrastructure is there and ready for retail and with Light-rail on Woodward. Heres my concept:

• Anchor retail: Marshalls
• Footlocker
• Old Navy
• Walgreens
• Express Men/Women
• Star Theatre
• P.F Chang
• Cheesecake Factory
• T.G.I.Fridays
• Gap
• Apple Store
• other specialty or smaller stores/restaurant.

Woodward Av will become a thriving shopping district, Grand circus Park and Campus Martius Park will be anchor for hang out after shopping and out on the town. Creating a 24hr center....BUILD AND THEY WILL COME!:cool:

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First off lol...to answer everyones question! If you give the money I will show you how to creat JOBS! thats my concern. Either that or empty storefronts...I dont get some of yalls method of thinking or comments sometimes. To Detroitdad...yes its been five years but im jus a regular citizens who is being under served and voicing my issues. closed mouths dont get fed....also, the difference between malls and downtown shopping is EXPERIENCE! I dont want to look at dywalls with fake plants and that lame mall music. I want to see stunning architecture, breath fresh air, get a breeze or two? ASk any Newyorker or Chicagians "Why they like Downtown shopping" see what answer you get...

First off...where do yall get that surban folks are the only ones that can SUPPORT retail here. Do your study, Detroiters spend hundreds of millions in the burbs every year. Umm ...1+1=2 ...right?

I live downtown right along with about 24 of my friends literally. We are tired of traveling far jus to get good products. Why residents down here are being under market...my two cents.

Most of my friends come in town either for pleasure or business and wants to shop downtown from there hotel or after eating out without getting in the car. *hint hint...70,000 employees downtown and rising, right along with new residentials projects. So all yall telling me if these retail decide to setup shop downtown you will rather go to mall? There a game goin on @ Comerica Park, a show at the Fox etc. nice weather outside guys, ....you want to go to the mall??? NNNNOOOO, I know i wouldnt want to. I will want to stay Downtown...my two cent personally?

oh and with M-1 rail project soon...thats a economic engine

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Originally Posted by gthomas

...closed mouths dont get fed....

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Neither do ones that are always talking.

Yes Gthomas, you said all that before. It sounds great. An entrepreneur is someone who has ideas AND is acting on them; a person willing to start a new venture and take full responsibility of the outcome. Simply having great ideas is hardly a step. Most of us have seen Chicago or New York, and understand their appeal.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

oh and with M-1 rail project soon...thats a economic engine

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Not unless you're able and ready to benefit from it.

We will not survive off jus local retail..there needs to be a mixture as I stated at the top. Those major retail, PLUS local specialty/small shops. Detroit theme restaurants etc..YOU NEED A ANCHOR to start..have you see downtown lately? Dead afta 5p...Where they do that @!!!??? oh detroit.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

I live downtown right along with about 24 of my friends literally.

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Sounds like an MTV reality show.

Downtown has been dead after 5 since it's inception because it has always been a business district and not a residential district. Downtown as a residential district is a fairly new concept in Detroit terms.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

We will not survive off jus local retail..there needs to be a mixture as I stated at the top. Those major retail, PLUS local specialty/small shops. Detroit theme restaurants etc..YOU NEED A ANCHOR to start..have you see downtown lately? Dead afta 5p...Where they do that @!!!??? oh detroit.

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I have to disagree Detroitdad. If you dont speak up, your issur might to be met..but oh it will heard and if we all stand and say enough is enough ..WE WIN. And i am puting money where my mouth is..Ive jus incorporated our entertainment/ design business and actually expanding into a building on Woodward soon. We are creating jobs and opportunities for many young detroiters now, even relocating some from chicago, dallas and atlanta. Im sayin to KEEP and RETAIN them this will have to be done.

sorry for alot of typos*..tired.

What about your degree in drafting and urban design?

You can certainly disagree. The ground, jail cells, and welfare lines are full of potential and good intentions. What you meant to do and what you did are two different things.

Gthomas, you and your 24 friends and others that live downtown have to pitch the argument to the businesses that you mentioned that you all deserve to be served in downtown. If you all write to these companies and say that you will support these businesses in Downtown Detroit, they might listen. As it stands right now, those of you that live downtown go somewhere to get toiletries, clothing, food, and other household items. The job of you and other downtown residents is to convince them to set up shop downtown.

Personally, I would love to see a Target store on the Hudson's site, with apartments built above. I can get 90% of all my basic needs at Target and so for me a Target store downtown would be ideal, since I work and play nearby. Without any serious competition in the area, it could actually do quite well, especially if apartment dwellers lived above the store. I believe this concept is currently being tried in Downtown Minneapolis. If it's doing well, then a pitch might be made to do it here. Well, I guess we all need to start writing.

I agree with others' comments about chain stores and the like, but Gthomas's overall vision of some kind of a grand boulevard running up Woodward is one I basically agree with. Which is not to say that I expect that to happen in the immediate future.

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Originally Posted by gthomas

ASk any Newyorker or Chicagians "Why they like Downtown shopping" see what answer you get...

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And I guarantee you that without exception, the answer will not involve "Express" or "P.F. Changs".

New Yorkers, in particular, are a little notorious for their disdain of national chains.

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Originally Posted by ghettopalmetto

And I guarantee you that without exception, the answer will not involve "Express" or "P.F. Changs".

New Yorkers, in particular, are a little notorious for their disdain of national chains.

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Yeah, the only reason those chains survive in NYC is because of tourists. It's no mistake that every single TGI Fridays in Manhattan is located between 30th and 59th Street, with the majority being clustered around Times Square or Penn Station.

We could start slowly with a Footlocker, Salad Creations, Borders, maybe a couple of restaurants and an upscale fashion boutique.

If you look at Downtown Shopping Districts in cities like Chicago and New York, typically, they offer stores, restaurants and experiences you won't find in a suburban mall. You mentioned the Magnificent Mile in Chicago as an example. There might be a few of the stores you mentioned on the Mile, but what draws the flocks of suburban and tourist shoppers [[like my wife) to the Mile are the boutiques and high end shops and department stores that even if you don't buy anything in them, they are fun to walk in and look. Stores like Tiffany & Co., Cartier, Saks 5th Avenue, Louis Vuitton, Coach, etc.

If Detroit could somehow attract stores like that to downtown, then they would be the true anchors of a popular shopping district that might also have some of the stores you mentioned. However, I think it would be better to have that type of shopping located just outside of the downtown area along one of the "spokes"

However, if I could wave my magic wand and bring retail downtown, I would create an "anchor" by bringing a Macy's Department Store to the site of the old Hudson's building and fill as much as i could of Woodward between Campus Martius and GCP and Washington between GCP and Michigan with either high end, boutique, or some other unique retail.

The final thing I would do is make the buildings around GCP the "Food Court" of what is essentially a high end outdoor mall. On the ground floor of the buildings facing GCP, I would try to develop more unique dining options both corporate [[yes, even a Cheesecake Factory) and local places too [[Slows Downtown perhaps?).

The bottom line of all of this is that You can't just try and throw the same things you would find at any mall in the surburbs in downtown Detroit and expect it to thrive. You have to create an experience and a destination that people are willing to fight traffic, pay for parking, and endure the elements [[wind, rain, snow, etc) to enjoy that is unique to what they can get out on 102 mile rd.

So you don't like malls, but you like outdoor malls with nice architecture? Somehow if the stores are the same I don't see the difference. They still suck as far as chain retailers go.

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Originally Posted by EL Jimbo

The bottom line of all of this is that You can't just try and throw the same things you would find at any mall in the surburbs in downtown Detroit and expect it to thrive. You have to create an experience and a destination that people are willing to fight traffic, pay for parking, and endure the elements [[wind, rain, snow, etc) to enjoy that is unique to what they can get out on 102 mile rd.

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"Experience." "Destination". = Marketing hoo-ha. Yawn.

How about this--build a fucking CITY!

Gthomas, I like your enthusiasm, and I think you should ignore the criticism. It beats the self-gratification disguised as social conciousness bullshit any day. At least your ideas are sans pretention.

Do people who live in Chicago really shop downtown? Not being snarky, but isn't Michigan Ave. basically tourists, and aren't a good number of those shops chain stores [[EDIT: OK I just read Jimbo's post...those high end shops are still chain stores, right? I think what the Mag Mile has is aesthetic, and chain stores with their own uniqueness like the NIKE store, etc.)

I agree with the suggestions of a Target and an Old Navy. Chain stores, yes, but one place affordable but not cheap clothing retail and, as mentioned, a place that can meet 90% of some consumers' needs is, in my opinion, the start of what downtown needs in order to keep the dollars there.

Retailers look at "income density" when choosing where to locate. That is to say, a certain number of persons within a particular range of income located within a given physical radius of the store. For any sort of high-end retailer, Detroit just doesn't have the income density. Before you can think about any kind of retail, you need to have people.

What I've witnessed, in several cities, is that the establishment of bars and restaurants usually precedes any type of retail resurgence. The reason for this is that bars, in particular, have higher profit margins. If you can charge $4 for a bottle of beer that costs you $1 to procure, that's a hell of a lot better than the couple percent profit that a clothing retailer might net.

I like gthomas's enthusiasm, but to address the problem, it needs to be tempered with a healthy dose of reality. Otherwise, you're just throwing a bunch of shit at the wall to see what will stick, and Detroit has done that for way too long as it is.

Start with *people*. If you want Chicago's Michigan Avenue, then you had better have a couple hundred thousand well-off folks living within a 2 mile radius.

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Originally Posted by EL Jimbo

If you look at Downtown Shopping Districts in cities like Chicago and New York, typically, they offer stores, restaurants and experiences you won't find in a suburban mall. You mentioned the Magnificent Mile in Chicago as an example. There might be a few of the stores you mentioned on the Mile, but what draws the flocks of suburban and tourist shoppers [[like my wife) to the Mile are the boutiques and high end shops and department stores that even if you don't buy anything in them, they are fun to walk in and look. Stores like Tiffany & Co., Cartier, Saks 5th Avenue, Louis Vuitton, Coach, etc.

If Detroit could somehow attract stores like that to downtown, then they would be the true anchors of a popular shopping district that might also have some of the stores you mentioned. However, I think it would be better to have that type of shopping located just outside of the downtown area along one of the "spokes"

However, if I could wave my magic wand and bring retail downtown, I would create an "anchor" by bringing a Macy's Department Store to the site of the old Hudson's building and fill as much as i could of Woodward between Campus Martius and GCP and Washington between GCP and Michigan with either high end, boutique, or some other unique retail.

The final thing I would do is make the buildings around GCP the "Food Court" of what is essentially a high end outdoor mall. On the ground floor of the buildings facing GCP, I would try to develop more unique dining options both corporate [[yes, even a Cheesecake Factory) and local places too [[Slows Downtown perhaps?).

The bottom line of all of this is that You can't just try and throw the same things you would find at any mall in the surburbs in downtown Detroit and expect it to thrive. You have to create an experience and a destination that people are willing to fight traffic, pay for parking, and endure the elements [[wind, rain, snow, etc) to enjoy that is unique to what they can get out on 102 mile rd.

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I don't think a Detroit shopping district needs an anchor. But it does need a large concentration of stores in a specific geographic area. Instead of tearing down every building they get their hands on maybe the city could turn them over to someone who will renovate and lease out retail space to local designers.

Soho in NYC was built by specialty retail shops. It wasn't until the notoriety and then tourists came that it started to attract the chains. And even today the only department store down there is a mini Bloomingdales that opened about 5 years ago. But 30 years ago it was only artists and dedicated designers working in spaces in old deserted factories that were practically free.

If I were playing God I would start such a project in the empty spaces along Woodward near the Grand Boulevard.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

Soho in NYC was built by specialty retail shops. It wasn't until the notoriety and then tourists came that it started to attract the chains. And even today the only department store down there is a mini Bloomingdales that opened about 5 years ago. But 30 years ago it was only artists and dedicated designers working in spaces in old deserted factories that were practically free.

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Let's bear in mind that SoHo was only able to "occur" due to the availability of cheap real estate. You know--the same kind of real estate that DEGC pays millions to bulldoze.

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Originally Posted by DetroitDad

Neither do ones that are always talking.

Yes Gthomas, you said all that before. It sounds great. An entrepreneur is someone who has ideas AND is acting on them; a person willing to start a new venture and take full responsibility of the outcome. Simply having great ideas is hardly a step. Most of us have seen Chicago or New York, and understand their appeal.

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In short, money talks and bullshit walks.

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I
If I were playing God I would start such a project in the empty spaces along Woodward near the Grand Boulevard.

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Fine, forget the anchor. If I were playing God I'd start by putting an affordable-but-not-cheap "urban" clothing retailer right here. I pass by it every day and want to scream at the Archdiocese to make use of half of this awesome space, with the hopes that the rest of the space would soon follow.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...0.62,,0,-18.56

Note: it isn't 1234 Washington Boulevard. It is further south and on the west side of the street, corner of Michigan Avenue.

May not seem like a great location at first glance, but it is right across from whatever they are calling the Holiday Inn Express these days, and kittie-corner from the Book Cadillac, down the street from the Wash Blvd. apartments [[forget what they are called). The Freep building is supposedly getting renovated, and the Fort Shelby is not far away [[neither is the bus terminal...perhaps not a good thing from the stories about that place).

EDIT: I would put a store in there if someone gave me $350,000. Pinky-promise I'd pay it back...

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Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't think a Detroit shopping district needs an anchor. But it does need a large concentration of stores in a specific geographic area. Instead of tearing down every building they get their hands on maybe the city could turn them over to someone who will renovate and lease out retail space to local designers.

Soho in NYC was built by specialty retail shops. It wasn't until the notoriety and then tourists came that it started to attract the chains. And even today the only department store down there is a mini Bloomingdales that opened about 5 years ago. But 30 years ago it was only artists and dedicated designers working in spaces in old deserted factories that were practically free.

If I were playing God I would start such a project in the empty spaces along Woodward near the Grand Boulevard.

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I'm not saying it necessarily needs an anchor either. My point was that If you want to add a department store to downtown, the perfect place to put it would be right where a department store used to be.

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Originally Posted by bartock

Fine, forget the anchor. If I were playing God I'd start by putting an affordable-but-not-cheap "urban" clothing retailer right here. I pass by it every day and want to scream at the Archdiocese to make use of half of this awesome space, with the hopes that the rest of the space would soon follow.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...0.62,,0,-18.56

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With the wide sidewalk is could make a great place to put a cafe.

In the past 15 years its been a Michcon office and a sporting goods store. Nothing has been there is quite sometime though.

Dense amount of unique stores is what downtown needs. Not a chain store except for maybe an urban target would be cool. The problem is, and people stated above that chain stores have a long sheet of requirements of where they put stores. I would not come downtown to shop at an old navy. I live three miles from an old navy and do not shop there. I would however and do drive downtown to get a cool T from a local shop like pure detroit etc.

Also I know people live downtown and that population has increased but really how many people are we talking about? 3-4 thousand?? Divide up the demographics and it becomes nearly impossible to justify to any established national chain to go ahead and open up a store/restaurant. It makes no sense. Even out of the kindness of their heart to "bring back a city" they would not do it. Downtown development in Detroit needs to be organic. Kind of like what's going on in the one building downtown, totally forgetting the name right now. Get 5-10 store ideas together and set up shop. Small stores with little overhead to get through the slim times. And honestly even in SoHo that's kind of how it is. A handful of chains [[ton more residents there though) with a lot of cool BOUTIQUE stores.

Edit: I see now that iheartheD made a point of SOHO before me so I agree with that post.

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Originally Posted by bartock

Fine, forget the anchor. If I were playing God I'd start by putting an affordable-but-not-cheap "urban" clothing retailer right here. I pass by it every day and want to scream at the Archdiocese to make use of half of this awesome space, with the hopes that the rest of the space would soon follow.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...0.62,,0,-18.56

Note: it isn't 1234 Washington Boulevard. It is further south and on the west side of the street, corner of Michigan Avenue.

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Isn't that currently St. Al's Community Center? Really is prime location, not to dis on my church but I would rather see business in there. Plus...the second floor looks sweet with big windows, etc.

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Originally Posted by Planner3357

Isn't that currently St. Al's Community Center? Really is prime location, not to dis on my church but I would rather see business in there. Plus...the second floor looks sweet with big windows, etc.

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No thats the Gabriel Richard Building. St. Al's used to be Niki's Pizza and before that Quickee Donuts.

I believe it will come, especially when Quicken Loans and its other entities build its headquarters in 2013. He also promise to include entertainment, shopping, and residential. So we will see how that works out, hopefully soon. I do agree with more Detroit theme/style retail..but we already have that downtown. We need other options, thats all Im saying. One or two anchors will not hurt to setup shop downtown.

Illitch also mention building some sort of entertainment/retail center with his new Redwings Arena? ...Potential. :cool:

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Originally Posted by EL Jimbo

I'm not saying it necessarily needs an anchor either. My point was that If you want to add a department store to downtown, the perfect place to put it would be right where a department store used to be.

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Like the Himmelochs building.

Stromberg2

Mockery aside, there is room in downtown Detroit for destination chain retail. An Apple Store or Ikea would most definitely attract suburban clientele. People will drive where ever is closest to look at the latest iPad or Swedish Modern Lamp.

Of course, one might expect stores to have diminished sales over alternative suburban sites, so it would be up to subsidy to entice such stores to land here.

The cost and benefit is up for debate, but you cannot deny that such stores would be profitable and draw considerable traffic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bartock

Fine, forget the anchor. If I were playing God I'd start by putting an affordable-but-not-cheap "urban" clothing retailer right here. I pass by it every day and want to scream at the Archdiocese to make use of half of this awesome space, with the hopes that the rest of the space would soon follow.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...0.62,,0,-18.56

Note: it isn't 1234 Washington Boulevard. It is further south and on the west side of the street, corner of Michigan Avenue.

May not seem like a great location at first glance, but it is right across from whatever they are calling the Holiday Inn Express these days, and kittie-corner from the Book Cadillac, down the street from the Wash Blvd. apartments [[forget what they are called). The Freep building is supposedly getting renovated, and the Fort Shelby is not far away [[neither is the bus terminal...perhaps not a good thing from the stories about that place).

EDIT: I would put a store in there if someone gave me $350,000. Pinky-promise I'd pay it back...

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• You mean like the woman's jean and urban apparel boutique right across the street?
  
  
  Attachment 9198
• It might be worth mentioning that chain stores have such requirements because that is the minimum requirements for running a profitable operation.
  
• As to anchors, we already have at least five. Comerica Park/Ford Field, MGM Grand/Motor City Casino, Cobo Hall/Joe Louis Arena, the Renaissance Center, and Campus Martius Park/Hart Plaza all anchor Downtown Detroit in some way. Despite those anchors, there is a minimum of spin-off retail. The problem isn't getting people into Downtown Detroit. The problem is keeping them here long enough to spend additional time and money.

gthomas, my fellow Detroiter,

Thank you for continuing to share your ideas. I regularly read the forum, and every once in a while, a thread jolts me out of my writing hiatus and posting dormancy.

I thought that Detroit had hit rock bottom in the early 2000s. I never imagined that our fair city would have spiraled to its current state. It is this present state of the city, which prompts cynicism and pessimism in this forum and from citizens, and understandably so. Nevertheless, it is these ideas, such as yours, which will contribute towards Detroit's transformation. Everything that IS was first an idea and vision.

I, too, have amassed numerous ideas and solutions for the city's revitalization, but I have been hampered by a lack of resources. I was on the Mayor's Youth Council [[under the Kilpatrick administration), and for years, I shared my ideas with politicians, journalists, and others. Now that I have completed my collegiate studies, I can effectively act on these ideas with a lack of financial resources being the main hindrance.

You mentioned that you are working with other entrepreneurs and have space available Downtown. I would like to learn more about what you're doing, right now, and how others might participate to help build the momentum.

Feel free to message [[or tweet) me @youngdetroiter

"Believe 'n the D!"
- [the slogan that I presented to the administration back in 2003. It looks oddly similar to the new "Believe in Detroit" campaign slogan. But as long as Detroit bounces back, I'll be happy...LOL.]

ok cool! thank you...tweet me @ geezy_83 or gtrip313@yahoo.com . Will give you more info.

What a crazy idea. Lose 25% of the potential customers in 10 years with all indications that the trend isn't over, and then open up a shopping center a to serve the diminishing customer base.

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Originally Posted by Gsgeorge

What makes this different from Northland, Fairlane, Somerset, Oakland, Fountainwalk, 12 Oaks, or any of the other big malls/chain store strip malls anywhere in the burbs? Or for that matter, anywhere in the US. I feel like everywhere I go I see nothing but Express outlet stores, WalMarts and Cheesecake Factories. Areas that are clones of one another. Total boring nothingness. Why do I always have to have the same ten retailers shoved in my face when I go shopping?

Corporations gave up on Detroit a long time ago and they're not gonna flock back en masse in the way you're proposing. We need to rebuild from the ground up, with home-grown entrepreneurs and locally-owned businesses. A chain anchor here or there is not bad. But I would hate to see Merchant's Row turn into an outdoor Great Lakes Crossing. Ugh...

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Eh, you get used to them being shoved in your face. Maybe I'd tend to agree with you personally, but for the rest of the population, the chain stores are exactly what they want, and tend to be the most desirable high rent neighborhoods. It's what attracts new residents to the city.

If you look at most cities, the chains exist within the downtown core, with a mixture of national chains and local businesses in the neighborhoods. That's what really makes neighborhoods so unique and destination locations. Downtown doesn't have to be "cool and trendy," it just needs to be a great place for companies to do business, supply office workers and residents with basic needs, and become a convenient location to shop at well recognized retail chains.

THANK YOU!!!!! WOLERINE! You get it..thats my whole point!!! CLARITY

This is actually a pretty good thread gthomas and it is your can-do spirit that defies a lot of the despondency Detroiters have experienced. Detroit's metro is rich and powerful, it has the wealth to spread and insteadof shopping for luxury in Chicago and New York, they should spend more in a revamped downtown. There has to be a way to push the owners of major properties in the CBD to create an inspiring city. gthomas has that fearless vision, and this is the kind of power that made Detroit a powerhouse in the early 1900's.

WOW!! thanx CANUCK!!! I really want to provide solution and hope to what we already have. SUPPORT DETROIT! Im living what most want to experience as a successful Detroiter. I am that and my vision is not allowing me to stop persuing a GREATER DETROIT. Detroiters deserve better...I will voice my opinion till it gets done.

I hate to be the curmudgeon that pisses on everyone's parade, but there's a reason there isn't chain retail downtown right now.

Back in the late 1970s, the Renaissance Center was filled with high-end retail shops. Washington Boulevard was filled with high-end retail before that. What happened? The residents and jobs necessary for those businesses to remain profitable moved to the suburbs. Now, you have Somerset in Troy.

You can open all the chain stores you want. It won't mean a damn if they can't make money in that location. And if they *could* make money in downtown Detroit, they'd have opened up shop already.

I'd rather see businesses succeed than to chase some magical cachet and *hope* that things turn out for the best. Present-day Detroit is the manifestation of redevelopment-through-hope. Hope and optimism are great things, but let's get some dollars flowing.

yeah g, you got it; the motto is Detroiters deserve better. They certainly dont deserve less. For better or for worse, Detroit has given the world individual car mobility. It has contributed a lot. It's easy to forget that, but it should be hailed as such, because at the end of the day, most of us drive our individual cars and like it. I dont know how long that lifestyle is meant to last but it is there now in no small part because pioneering Detroiters made it happen. If it was possible a hundred years a go, it is possible now.

I don't lose any sleep over whether Old Navy is coming to town. In my conception of things, they don't come to town until long after the Vicentes of the world have pulled Detroit up by their bootstraps. We're a long way off from Old Navy and Linens & Things displacing a used book store. Let them worry about that in New York. Detroit can worry about that 30 years from now.

So in my conception of things, you're barking up the wrong tree when bringing up chain stores. They would be here already if they had any interest.

You need to get Vicente to open up another place somewhere further up Woodward, or get the next Vicente to open up shop.

San Francisco seems to have a pretty good handle on the chain store issue, as I mentioned a while back. Might be worth referring to, 30 years from now.

Not everything needs to be about creating things for suburban dwellers to venture into the city for.
Detroit is a city that still has over 700,000 residents.

It is still the 18th most populous city in the nation.

Much smaller cities have plenty of options for shopping. I have never seen another as barren as Detroit, when it comes to what should be a simple task: spending money!

If a significant amount of Detroiters would keep their money in the city, spending it where they live, it would be an incentive for more investment in the city. As it is, there is far too much money leaving the city. Companies are profit driven. Why should they feel any need to invest in a community if that community spends its money to come to them? When a store comes to Detroit, Detroiters should spend their money there instead of traveling to the suburbs. This is the case even if the suburban location is closer, as money spent in a Home Depot in the suburbs does nothing to show that Detroit is a solid investment. Making the Detroit location the most popular in the area would raise a few eyebrows.

There are reasons that you see so much investment on the outskirts of Detroit, but a lack of it in the city itself. The suburbs these retail locations are in knew that by doing what they could to draw the retailer they would draw money from the city to itself. Northland proved this.
Detroit just has to turn the tables. Do it better. Beat them at their own game.

Why is it that when the Empowerment zones were implemented during the Clinton administration Detroit did nearly nothing with them? Sure, a few businesses took advantage of the tax breaks, but where was the visible business that Detroiters could take advantage of? Elizabeth, NJ did pretty well… why couldn’t Detroit?

It is time to reverse the trend that has been a part of Detroit seemingly forever. John Lodge noted that Detroiters do a great job of talking with their hands in their pockets. [[I paraphrased, as I can’t find the exact quote right now.)

I believe in the “If you build it, they will come” philosophy. We just need to figure out how to actually get past all the crap and build it.

To hell with the naysayers. If they gave a damn about Detroit in the first place they would do more than just bitch about it.

jtl 1972,

I spoke of the same issue in another thread a couple of weeks ago. In regards to Detroit not taking advantage of empowerment zone opportunities and lots of other government programs that so many other cities used to rebuild. I referred to it as "Detroit missing the economic boom". The years that Chicago and New York made the comebacks and other small and unknown cities gained national notoriety. Detroit missed the boom, didn't take the free money or whatever you want to call it. We missed the boat big time!



gthomas,

As a young business person myself, I believe in your vision. The most important factor is that you're not primarily seeking profit but also change and you're doing it out of the love for your city. You're one of the people that probably could have taken a job in another city after college, but you chose to stay in the city. I left the city long ago and I'll be returning back to Detroit pretty soon as a part time resident. However, I do recommend that people leave their hometowns when you're young and try living in other cities because you learn so much. I've learned so much by living in other places and now I can take these talents and re-create them in Detroit. I still ABSOLUTELY LOVE where i'm living today, although I'm only a small fish in a gigantic sea, but i'm addicted to the energy. However, I definitely want to spend most of my time pitching in to help rebuild Detroit.

OK, some people are making this an optimistic visioneer vs. Detroit downer argument and it is NOT.

It is a lack of critical thought problem. Everyone knows Woodward could be an amazing Magnificent Mile because it once was. Stating that is like saying Michigan needs better public transportation. Oh really, how interesting, thanks for the wonderful input.

Creating a shopping district downtown is not a plan or even an idea. Woodward was built for retail, it's obvious, that's why this post pisses me off. There's no framework for a plan or unique idea to discuss. There's not even a recognition of the issues involved.

On a positive note, as to not be labeled a Detro Downer, there is a massive plan moving forward to make Woodward pretty kick-ass. I'm sure those of you who actually follow downtown development are aware. I have been meeting with teams of people involved and I am very optimistic. There are significant amounts of time, research, and money being poured into this plan and it is picking up traction...I just really hope the name doesn't stick.

Worth reading;

Realistic lower Woodward retail ideas

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gthomas

THANK YOU!!!!! WOLERINE! You get it..thats my whole point!!! CLARITY

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Your idea is a good one. Check out Denver's 16th Street Mall. It's pretty much what you are talking about. Chain stores are the retail paradigm and mom & pop cannot compete with the supply chain beast. Your proposal might have to be heavily subsidized though. 80% of funding for Denver's mall came from Federal funds [[in the 70s). If they get it built for free...then they will come.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroitDad

• You mean like the woman's jean and urban apparel boutique right across the street?
  
  
  Attachment 9198

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Was it ever open? The signs are still there, but at least in the last year and a half I don't recall seeing anything open.

jyf1972 and illwill..thank you for understanding. I left for school in Oklahoma for 5yrs and return for change in my hometown. I traveled the world, performed in most NFL/NBA arenas. Been to most major cities and seen what Detroit can become or once was. It was frustrating to enjoy other vibrant cities and return home to go to a cookie cutter mall...BORING! Those others citites where an EXPERIENCE. As a tourist, i never left from the Downtown area for anything I wanted...Whats wrong with DETROIT right? I visit Denver and saw a Detroit version of where we trying to go...A good mixture of Big box retail with local spots next door. No competition..

My point is..Why do the suburbs have 5 malls within a few mile? WE HAVE 713,000 RESIDENTS WHO CAN SUPPORT "1" MAJOR RETAIL DOWNTOWN!! I gaurantee if you put Macy downtown every detroiter will rather keep the money here and not shop elsewhere. The real reason is...we dont have a choice but to spend our money out there, its our only option. Make Detroit a option...AGAIN AS I MENTION EARLIER IN THE THREAD..."DETROITERS" SPEND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS!!!! LET ME SAY DAT AGAIN! ..."MILLIONS" in our suburbs...WOW!! And we cant support 1 freakin major store..??? I dont understand your method of what works here or not. WE DESERVE BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OH and to mention...Through my journey and experience being away for awhile, I did my research. I convinced most of my friends to relocate here from vibrant cities such as Chicago, Newyork, and Dallas for opportunity. Its very hard to leave cities like that and get here and have to DRIVE 30 minutes to get a shirt..? ALL my friends talk about is where to shop DOWNTOWN, not somerset/eastland/northland malls...they hate going to malls. HINT *HINT.....to keep and retain youth here is to create that environment for vibrancy we thrive for in cities...I dont go to these other cities to go to there malls...who does that..OH METRO Detroiters......its really ashame to me. I dont think im barking up the wrong tree, some of you need to climb it and reach some goals...Im only one man.

gthomas, first off I want to say thank you for your enthusiasm and optimism. It is people like you that will help lead Detroit to a rebound. However, you have to be realistic with the challenges Detroit faces as well. All of the problems with Detroit not having retail are not simple in nature, some of it requires much more consideration.

At least seven reasons retail is a challenge in Detroit:
Crime:
Some people won't shop in the city because they are afraid of being victimized by a crime, whether it is a mugging or their car vandalized or stolen while they are shopping. Although these things can still happen in the suburbs, they are far less likely to happen. Also, the business owner has to worry about being robbed as well. Witness how many fast food restaurants in the city have bulletproof glass where suburban locations that even border the city don't.

The crime in the city can be addressed in a number of ways, but businesses really can't do much about it. The crime keeps both the business owners and customers out of the city.

Taxes:
I understand the complexity of this issue but it has to be addressed. The difference between taxes in the city and suburbs compared with the service means the business either has to settle for a lower profit margin or has to charge higher prices. I don't know what it would take to bring Detroit's taxes/services in line to be competitive with the suburbs, but there is not much a business can do about this. If Kroger feels they can make more money on the north side of 8 Mile in Royal Oak Twp. than they can on the south side of 8 Mile, guess where they are going to build their store?

Insurance:
If Detroit government dealt with the crime issue then maybe it could help lower the cost of insurance in the city. Insurance in a sense acts like a tax, the higher it is means the business owner has to either accept a lower profit margin or impose higher prices on the customer. Too many businesses in any area of Detroit face too many burglaries to be acceptable. Bing really needs to address this issue!

Red tape:
Many entrepreneurs have been willing to put up with the crime, high taxes, and high insurance to take a chance in the city only to be confronted with red tape. See all the scandals past City Council persons and former mayors have been involved in. Pay to play has driven a lot of potential from the city. Hopefully Bing can restore some honesty to the city government.

Location [[might be too expensive because of owner, clean-up, lack of size, etc.):
Michigan Central Station comes to mind. Many people would love to rehab this historic structure and fill it with shops and lodging and all kinds of other neat ideas. However, the building belongs to Matty Moroun and if he doesn't want to rent/sell it for the price some are willing to pay then the place stays vacant. There are lots of buildings in Detroit that fit this criteria. The owner is either holding out for top dollar, there is too much cleanup involved [[Packard Plant), there is no enough space at the location or accessibility, etc. This is another challenge that needs to be dealt with.

Panhandlers:
This one really infuriates me. I went to a gas station at Evergreen and 8 Mile in Southfield one evening and there was a bum out from begging for change. By the time I walked into the store to grab what I wanted the owner had already chased the bum off. I rarely ever see anyone begging at this gas station and this incident helped me understand why. Just one mile inside the city on 7 Mile it is like beggars paradise. They hang out at almost every gas station, Coney Island, party store, you name it. Who would want to shop in the city when they have to push their way through panhandlers all the time when they can simply go across the street from the city and be free of beggars? I do shop in the suburbs often and I rarely [[but it has happened) face panhandlers but in the city it's an everyday experience at just about any business. This seems like an easy fix that both businesses and the city could fix almost pronto. I have no idea why it hasn't been addressed.

Dirty:
Much like the panhandlers, the dirt and trash in some areas of the city is a turnoff. There are party stores, gas stations, and grocery stores inside the city that act as if they don't know what is to pick up a piece of trash. Unfortunately, if you're not from Detroit and you've never been here, you'll know when you've reached the city limits without even seeing a sign. The huge difference in how dirty and trashy the city is compared with all the inner ring suburbs cannot be missed. Again, this seems like a small issue that is easy to fix but continues to linger.

None of these problems are insurmountable, and none of them apply to every business, but these issues need to be addressed. Bing said it right, Detroit needs to hang a "open for business" sign in the city. The question is, is the government of Detroit ready to make the changes need to move in that direction. gthomas, I'd hate to lose you. If the city doesn't address these issues you might be one that gets tired of fighting the inevitable and take your talents to the suburbs or another metro area. Keep up the good fight, and hopefully many others are inspired to join you.

Ok I agree in someway...? Downtown has little to no crime, Basicilly no tax or in a renaissance tax credit zone, so no high taxes for businesses. Very well kept up by CleanDowntown and with lightrail running right through the area soon. LOCATION is PERFECT! I answer your statement about what really true. Do you really go through this when your downtown..no I dont think so. I can walk around downtown on a summer night and feel safe, night crew from CleanDowntown cleaning city streets. The infrastructure is there and waiting patiently. Hope the Broderick Tower Apartments and Whitney building attract some nice retail.... Whats your experience downtown...?

The wrong 7 reasons [[No facts of Downtown) that you have there...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gthomas

The wrong 7 reasons [[No facts of Downtown) that you have there...

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So what is your explanation? I admit I don't hang out downtown, but the last time I was there for the Monster Trucks at Comerica Park back in Feb[[??) I can't say it appeared any different to me than what I've always known it to be.

[QUOTE=Crumbled_pavement;235478]


"Location [[might be too expensive because of owner, clean-up, lack of size, etc.):
Michigan Central Station comes to mind. Many people would love to rehab this historic structure and fill it with shops and lodging and all kinds of other neat ideas. However, the building belongs to Matty Moroun and if he doesn't want to rent/sell it for the price some are willing to pay then the place stays vacant. There are lots of buildings in Detroit that fit this criteria. The owner is either holding out for top dollar, there is too much cleanup involved [[Packard Plant), there is no enough space at the location or accessibility, etc. This is another challenge that needs to be dealt with."

This is a very important compontent that many people don't realize. You'll hear it in their comments when they say things like, "The city ought to this concerning vacant buildings..." However, the city can do little with vacant buildings, especially commericial buildings, if the owner pays his/her taxes and keeps the building maintained [[which usually means just keeping it locked and boarded up so that trespassers can't go in and trash it), Owners holding out for big bucks chase away development. Matty Moroun is the classic example.

The reason for retail downtown is not just for shopping but for JOBS. Which in turn create a livingable city, with increase revenue, just wages ...money will start flowing in our REAL urban center. Also will dramatically increase foot traffic from downtown resident, worker and visitor alike. Thats why I picked reasonable retail that will work in our city WITHOUT depending on our suburbs, like theres not enough residents here in the city...crazy. All of this is to create a 24 hour city, which YOUNG, EDUCATED folks love and willing to invest in the long run. This is what we like, so why not support em..? This region is backward as for what works in a successful city or region. But siting here complaining what works and what dont works is pointless. If a truly had the money to do such thing I will show you how a downtown should be. BUILD THE SHIT AND THE SHIT WILL COME!!!!! GUARANTEED!!!!...I apologize for being aggressive but thats where my passion and love for this city expresses...

If this is what keeps them here do what you have to do..Give the citizens a reason to come downtown and shop on woodward, they will! Trust..! Just frustrating...trying not to give up. If a hear of more major retail shopping centers open in the suburbs im going to go CRAZY!! Now THAT dont makes sense in this economy. Oh and also entertainment...the young need places and things to do without leaving the city. I truly believe the region and retailers are scared that if downtown detroit was to become a vibrant urban retail center much of our surrounding suburb malls and centers, beside somserset; Will CLOSE...they know the citizens of Detroit need these things but wants it to be limited but not too limited...truthfully. L. Brooks Patterson will DEFINITELY not be happy. keep in mind AGAIN..DETROITERS spend hundreds of millions in the suburbs for basic needs.....HHHHEEEELLLLLLOOOOO! That dont sound good...

Wouldnt this be nice downtown beside heading to the mall...? Soon to be DETROIT! Attachment 9249Attachment 9248Attachment 9247Attachment 9246Attachment 9245Attachment 9244Attachment 9243Attachment 9242Attachment 9241Attachment 9240Attachment 9239

See how vibrant this cities are just in the picture, go there! It seems to work there. So all you guys from metro detroit rather go to the mall than to EXPERIENCE these photos...No disrespect to the elderly, but as being young I rather go to these palce before going to anybodys MALL..boring! THIS CAN AND WILL WORK DOWNTOWN...it wont hurt to try. What will hurt is not having a opportunity to support these retailer downtown.

I think that the pay to play element is still in the city government. May not be the Mayor this time but possibly someone on the council or other parts of city government that allow entities such as liquor stores and strip club to open for business within a couple of months but a good grocery store for the neighborhood takes up to a year or two. The same goes for downtown. It is probably the red tape more than any other barrier that keep potential retail from moving into downtown. Stores like Sermans or J L Stone had been downtown for a long time but I would not buy a suit or a shirt from them. The salespeople don't know how to fit you in clothing such as a suite or a coat. Local entreprenuers could bring downtown back. Young retailers could set up shop if they could cater to mainstream customers instead of the "funky hip hop crowd". More womens shops should be allowed to open downtown that caters to women or all sizes and styles not just the petite ones or the "Hochie Mamas". Macys would do good in the GM building downtown while local shops would do go along the lower woodward corridor. There was a shop named Moci clothing on the corner of Michigan and Washington Blvd that had cater to certain types of women. It had only opened for 7 years and closed two years ago or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crumbled_pavement

gthomas, first off I want to say thank you for your enthusiasm and optimism. It is people like you that will help lead Detroit to a rebound. However, you have to be realistic with the challenges Detroit faces as well. All of the problems with Detroit not having retail are not simple in nature, some of it requires much more consideration.

At least seven reasons retail is a challenge in Detroit:
Crime:
Some people won't shop in the city because they are afraid of being victimized by a crime, whether it is a mugging or their car vandalized or stolen while they are shopping. Although these things can still happen in the suburbs, they are far less likely to happen. Also, the business owner has to worry about being robbed as well. Witness how many fast food restaurants in the city have bulletproof glass where suburban locations that even border the city don't.

The crime in the city can be addressed in a number of ways, but businesses really can't do much about it. The crime keeps both the business owners and customers out of the city.

Taxes:
I understand the complexity of this issue but it has to be addressed. The difference between taxes in the city and suburbs compared with the service means the business either has to settle for a lower profit margin or has to charge higher prices. I don't know what it would take to bring Detroit's taxes/services in line to be competitive with the suburbs, but there is not much a business can do about this. If Kroger feels they can make more money on the north side of 8 Mile in Royal Oak Twp. than they can on the south side of 8 Mile, guess where they are going to build their store?

Insurance:
If Detroit government dealt with the crime issue then maybe it could help lower the cost of insurance in the city. Insurance in a sense acts like a tax, the higher it is means the business owner has to either accept a lower profit margin or impose higher prices on the customer. Too many businesses in any area of Detroit face too many burglaries to be acceptable. Bing really needs to address this issue!

Red tape:
Many entrepreneurs have been willing to put up with the crime, high taxes, and high insurance to take a chance in the city only to be confronted with red tape. See all the scandals past City Council persons and former mayors have been involved in. Pay to play has driven a lot of potential from the city. Hopefully Bing can restore some honesty to the city government.

Location [[might be too expensive because of owner, clean-up, lack of size, etc.):
Michigan Central Station comes to mind. Many people would love to rehab this historic structure and fill it with shops and lodging and all kinds of other neat ideas. However, the building belongs to Matty Moroun and if he doesn't want to rent/sell it for the price some are willing to pay then the place stays vacant. There are lots of buildings in Detroit that fit this criteria. The owner is either holding out for top dollar, there is too much cleanup involved [[Packard Plant), there is no enough space at the location or accessibility, etc. This is another challenge that needs to be dealt with.

Panhandlers:
This one really infuriates me. I went to a gas station at Evergreen and 8 Mile in Southfield one evening and there was a bum out from begging for change. By the time I walked into the store to grab what I wanted the owner had already chased the bum off. I rarely ever see anyone begging at this gas station and this incident helped me understand why. Just one mile inside the city on 7 Mile it is like beggars paradise. They hang out at almost every gas station, Coney Island, party store, you name it. Who would want to shop in the city when they have to push their way through panhandlers all the time when they can simply go across the street from the city and be free of beggars? I do shop in the suburbs often and I rarely [[but it has happened) face panhandlers but in the city it's an everyday experience at just about any business. This seems like an easy fix that both businesses and the city could fix almost pronto. I have no idea why it hasn't been addressed.

Dirty:
Much like the panhandlers, the dirt and trash in some areas of the city is a turnoff. There are party stores, gas stations, and grocery stores inside the city that act as if they don't know what is to pick up a piece of trash. Unfortunately, if you're not from Detroit and you've never been here, you'll know when you've reached the city limits without even seeing a sign. The huge difference in how dirty and trashy the city is compared with all the inner ring suburbs cannot be missed. Again, this seems like a small issue that is easy to fix but continues to linger.

None of these problems are insurmountable, and none of them apply to every business, but these issues need to be addressed. Bing said it right, Detroit needs to hang a "open for business" sign in the city. The question is, is the government of Detroit ready to make the changes need to move in that direction. gthomas, I'd hate to lose you. If the city doesn't address these issues you might be one that gets tired of fighting the inevitable and take your talents to the suburbs or another metro area. Keep up the good fight, and hopefully many others are inspired to join you.

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The owners of these buildings downtown are the biggest roadblocks

I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know if the issue of chain stores draining money out of their locations has been addressed.

http://www.nytimes-se.com/2009/07/04...neighborhoods/

Thats a one sided arguement...actually wrong. What Big box retail has done successfully is created JOBS for low-income residents and give the a opportunity to move up and become successful entreprenuer and actually venture off and START your own company. Get experience in the workplace..its about OPPORTUNITY. Thats why u see more local smaller shops SURROUNDING a couple of big box retail. Small businesses feed off their FOOT TRAFFIC but are doing succesful due to one of a kind merchandise.

Its better than not having nothing there...Its a lose-lose case. Having SOMETHING there will do ALOT..............CREATE JOBS, CREATE JOBS, CREATE JOBS, increase foot traffic ...oh and revenue. All in turn creates a liveable city which will increase services and requirements to make this CITY run like a CITY. TREAT IT AS SUCH...What do you have to lose, when theres no option in the first place.

Two or three Big box retail downtown will not HURT, but actually Help. Better than nothing...thats my whole debate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gthomas

Thats a one sided arguement...actually wrong. What Big box retail has done successfully is created JOBS for low-income residents and give the a opportunity to move up and become successful entreprenuer and actually venture off and START your own company. Get experience in the workplace..its about OPPORTUNITY. Thats why u see more local smaller shops SURROUNDING a couple of big box retail. Small businesses feed off their FOOT TRAFFIC but are doing succesful due to one of a kind merchandise.

Its better than not having nothing there...Its a lose-lose case. Having SOMETHING there will do ALOT..............CREATE JOBS, CREATE JOBS, CREATE JOBS, increase foot traffic ...oh and revenue. All in turn creates a liveable city which will increase services and requirements to make this CITY run like a CITY. TREAT IT AS SUCH...What do you have to lose, when theres no option in the first place.

Two or three Big box retail downtown will not HURT, but actually Help. Better than nothing...thats my whole debate.

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I doubt there is a soul on this thread that disagrees with you. However there is a gulf between what should be and what is. The question is how do we build a boat to sail that gulf? Some of your suggestions require changes at the city government level. You should suggest these things at the next City Council meeting.

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I'd love to see a movie theatre somewhere near lower Woodward. Toronto has an AMC on Yonge Street, I don't see why Detroit can't have one somewhere on Woodward. I think it would help keep more people in Detroit longer [[dinner and a movie as opposed to dinner and a car ride home).

I'd support expanded retail downtown, midtown, etc. Nobody's mentioned a big movieplex.. Yes.. with a cool restaurant inside..

I believe when Quicken loans build there headquarters in 2013, there will a AMC theatre of some sort within his plans. Theyre trying to build a "WEBward" distict between campus martius and grand circus park. Focusing on creating a Creative Tech hub, an Apple store will fit in great for there plans.

http://www.modeldmedia.com/galleries...lacCenter2.jpg
New Cadillac Center would have been all those things and more.

There is a complete lack of access to capital for entrepreneurs who want to open in Downtown Detroit. Large and flashy developments like the Cadillac Center proposal, pictured above, quickly were shelfed as we entered the late 2000's recession. Some of our local banks don't even have people on staff to evaluate business plans for loan consideration. That possibly stretches across much of the U.S., not just Michigan. Gthomas, I always loved your ideas, but having a plan going in front of venture capitalists, they're going to tear you and Detroit apart. In that, you are going to have to show why scarce investment capital should be funneled into Downtown, rather than other areas. The problem is, your great ideas might be too risky, or might not be as good of a return on investment as the new office park in Canton.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroitDad

Gthomas, I always loved your ideas, but having a plan going in front of venture capitalists, they're going to tear you and Detroit apart. In that, you are going to have to show why scarce investment capital should be funneled into Downtown, rather than other areas. The problem is, your great ideas might be too risky, or might not be as good of a return on investment as the new office park in Canton.

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These days even the new office park in Canton will get ripped into. Too much office space in this region as it is. When you lose half million jobs over the last half-decade we all hurt. Drive around the suburban office parks and you will see more for lease or for sale signs than you will in Detroit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroitDad

http://www.modeldmedia.com/galleries...lacCenter2.jpg

New Cadillac Center would have been all those things and more.

There is a complete lack of access to capital for entrepreneurs who want to open in Downtown Detroit. Large and flashy developments like the Cadillac Center proposal, pictured above, quickly were shelfed as we entered the late 2000's recession. Some of our local banks don't even have people on staff to evaluate business plans for loan consideration. That possibly stretches across much of the U.S., not just Michigan. Gthomas, I always loved your ideas, but having a plan going in front of venture capitalists, they're going to tear you and Detroit apart. In that, you are going to have to show why scarce investment capital should be funneled into Downtown, rather than other areas. The problem is, your great ideas might be too risky, or might not be as good of a return on investment as the new office park in Canton.

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Cadillac Center was Northern Groups and Demwitzers project. The economy didnt kill the project; it was Northern Groups fuck ups that killed the project. Northern Group had purchased Penobscott, First National, Alden Park, and the Lafayette Towers.All of this was during the Kilpatrick administration. The company had ran all of those building to the ground and owed contractors thousands of dollars due to them for repairs that was done to these buildings. Thank God the Dembitzers or Demwitzers weren't able to build a complex such as the Cadillac Centre for the place would had went into foreclosure soon after the first tenants would had moved in. Can't blame the economy for that

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DetroitPlanner

These days even the new office park in Canton will get ripped into. Too much office space in this region as it is. When you lose half million jobs over the last half-decade we all hurt. Drive around the suburban office parks and you will see more for lease or for sale signs than you will in Detroit.

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I need to make it out there soon to photograph the new office and residential projects which have resumed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stasu1213

Cadillac Center was Northern Groups and Demwitzers project. The economy didnt kill the project; it was Northern Groups fuck ups that killed the project. Northern Group had purchased Penobscott, First National, Alden Park, and the Lafayette Towers.All of this was during the Kilpatrick administration. The company had ran all of those building to the ground and owed contractors thousands of dollars due to them for repairs that was done to these buildings. Thank God the Dembitzers or Demwitzers weren't able to build a complex such as the Cadillac Centre for the place would had went into foreclosure soon after the first tenants would had moved in. Can't blame the economy for that

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The point there, mainly is that this was being marketed in Downtown Detroit. Generally, I have used this project to illustrate the trajectory of Downtown Detroit before the economic collapse.

Northern Group was running up debt that became immediately unserviceable, and had money pit real estate that would have been able to be flipped for a profit in the previous good economy. I agree that this did not reflect good fiscal responsibility in hindsight. However, it's worth noting that that was very common global practice.

Just thought I'd post this. There's a new coffee shop I stopped by in my friend's neighborhood, and thought....Detroit needs something like this. A very inexpensive place for small food items. A place to get coffee, sit around, and surf the internet.

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/ZXk6P...Q60oXjlIsLjNBg

Last time a similar concept was proposed on this board, the dam of ignorance broke with forumers saying "such things don't exist, internet for free!? Who does that." In all cities, in all places, everywhere....yes coffee shops exist where people can sit down and work for 4 hours....and still be profitable. There's obviously also other chains like Starbucks, Caribou, Inteligensia, and Argo providing somewhat of a similar experience, but not quite as homegrown is the example I posted.

The benefit for Detroit? Well the rents are cheap, and if these places can make it in high rent districts all across America, Detroit can pull it off.


While Detroit looks at adding more grocery stores and basic amenities, it's also important to think about places where people can relax and be social while getting a cup of coffee. They definitely add to the urban experience, which is so highly desired by a younger generation these days.

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Originally Posted by wolverine

Just thought I'd post this. There's a new coffee shop I stopped by in my friend's neighborhood, and thought....Detroit needs something like this. A very inexpensive place for small food items. A place to get coffee, sit around, and surf the internet.

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/ZXk6P...Q60oXjlIsLjNBg

Last time a similar concept was proposed on this board, the dam of ignorance broke with forumers saying "such things don't exist, internet for free!? Who does that." In all cities, in all places, everywhere....yes coffee shops exist where people can sit down and work for 4 hours....and still be profitable. There's obviously also other chains like Starbucks, Caribou, Inteligensia, and Argo providing somewhat of a similar experience, but not quite as homegrown is the example I posted.

The benefit for Detroit? Well the rents are cheap, and if these places can make it in high rent districts all across America, Detroit can pull it off.


While Detroit looks at adding more grocery stores and basic amenities, it's also important to think about places where people can relax and be social while getting a cup of coffee. They definitely add to the urban experience, which is so highly desired by a younger generation these days.

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Oh, you mean like this? Yeah, too bad there's nothing like that in Detroit.

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Originally Posted by wolverine

Just thought I'd post this. There's a new coffee shop I stopped by in my friend's neighborhood, and thought....Detroit needs something like this. A very inexpensive place for small food items. A place to get coffee, sit around, and surf the internet.

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/ZXk6P...Q60oXjlIsLjNBg

Last time a similar concept was proposed on this board, the dam of ignorance broke with forumers saying "such things don't exist, internet for free!? Who does that." In all cities, in all places, everywhere....yes coffee shops exist where people can sit down and work for 4 hours....and still be profitable. There's obviously also other chains like Starbucks, Caribou, Inteligensia, and Argo providing somewhat of a similar experience, but not quite as homegrown is the example I posted.

The benefit for Detroit? Well the rents are cheap, and if these places can make it in high rent districts all across America, Detroit can pull it off.


While Detroit looks at adding more grocery stores and basic amenities, it's also important to think about places where people can relax and be social while getting a cup of coffee. They definitely add to the urban experience, which is so highly desired by a younger generation these days.

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Four years ago I had emailed Caribou Coffee asking them had they had any thoughts of opening a coffee house in downtown Detroit. Greektown would be a nice area being that Caribou love to have that "rustic" cabin woodwork look. There are empty buildings in or near the Greektown/Bricktown area that would provide that look. I didn't get a reply. I am still concern about grocery stores opening on time in Detroit being that Lafayette Foods is pushing the date later than originally dated and YOBS hadn't stocked their shelves yet. I hope that the city is not giving them a hard time in opening. Detroit need more bagels and coffee shops. Especially in the downtown area along merchants row. The mayor and council are so busy cutting that minimal creative ideas come forth in opening specialty shops and middle end boutiques; coffee shops included. There was once a Europa coffee shop in greektown but the owner had decided to close it last year this time. Paris Cafe was once in the Lafayette Park strip mall but the owner had decided to close it or was forced to close.

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Originally Posted by Augustiner

Oh, you mean like this? Yeah, too bad there's nothing like that in Detroit.

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The link didn't work, so I'll have to check back later. But the google searches say It's in Hamtramck. That's the closet you can get to downtown in a city of 715,000+ people? I'm aware there's a couple places like this that already exist, but definitely not enough.

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Originally Posted by wolverine

The link didn't work, so I'll have to check back later. But the google searches say It's in Hamtramck. That's the closet you can get to downtown in a city of 715,000+ people? I'm aware there's a couple places like this that already exist, but definitely not enough.

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I never said there were enough of them, but we know what a coffee shop is. We don't need a link and a detailed explanation to understand the concept.

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Originally Posted by Augustiner

I never said there were enough of them, but we know what a coffee shop is. We don't need a link and a detailed explanation to understand the concept.

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I know most of you do, but if you would have seen the other thread on this [[which I couldn't find.) It got a lot of pushback from people who didn't understand what these places were like, nor fathom an establishment that would let people stick around, sip coffee slowly and use the free internet. Maybe you weren't around for that discussion.

It's nothing more than an idea or recommendation. If you think it's a good one, then that's great we both agree.

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Originally Posted by Augustiner

I never said there were enough of them, but we know what a coffee shop is. We don't need a link and a detailed explanation to understand the concept.

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I don't think Wolverine was calling Detroiters hillbillies. The coffee shop is reflective of Detroit being a desirable city. No coffee shops = not a desirable city, assuming that coffee shops don't exist in a vacuum. That's not to say that coffee shops are a silver bullet or that [[metro) Detroiters don't know what they are.

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Originally Posted by wolverine

I know most of you do, but if you would have seen the other thread on this [[which I couldn't find.) It got a lot of pushback from people who didn't understand what these places were like, nor fathom an establishment that would let people stick around, sip coffee slowly and use the free internet. Maybe you weren't around for that discussion.

It's nothing more than an idea or recommendation. If you think it's a good one, then that's great we both agree.

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I certainly wasn't. I'm surprised you got that reaction. Must have been a very different DY.