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Another nasty pileup/accident on I-75 in SE Michigan. Come on, people. SLOW DOWN and get winter tires. 4-wheel drive does not give you the right to speed in icy conditions.
http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/se_mich/freeways-closed-due-to-accidents
Craziness! I was on I-75 not too long ago.
It was absolutely nasty to drive today. One of the worst days I've ever experienced...nice conditions to blizzard in the matter of seconds. Counted eight bad accidents in just three miles on the Southfield Freeway. Everything was ice...scary.
^^^ Yeah it was fast out of no where white-out! I was on the Southfield at Oakwood southbound, Dearborn - Allen Pk border right as the white-out/ ice combo ended.
I saw the car hauler jack-knifed...cars piled all over west bound lane. I took the back way home once I left the Hill later [[what ever that mall is called)
I have Hakapaleda snow tires from Finland, the same tires the rally drivers use. Snow and ice, no problem. Other drivers, big problem.
^^^ Those sound like great tires! I have traction control with all year tires, but brain control to not drive so doggone fast as see so many folks in ice and snow. I also turn my over-drive off on some turns, exit points and extra icy patches for extra pull and less spin.
I was driving around today with the windows down and my sunglasses on....:cool:
I decided to buy the latest Blizzaks when it came time for tires a few months back...gambled, because it would only be a wise purchase IF we had a heavy winter. They are looking pretty smart now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
Drove my honey to work yesterday, she's got some uber-top-secret thing that is keeping a few in her office on overtime, and missed the beginnings of the storm...
...but hours later had SO much fun driving down to pick her up, rallying a very snowy and icy Charlevoix most of the way. I've got a Saturn Vue without ABS brakes, so I can still use the handbrake to check the rears if I ever snowplow into a corner. [[found out the hard way with my old Windstar that technique freaks out two-channel ABS systems)
I was so pumped up from the drive, just exhilirated with the fun of driving in this crap under relative control due the tires, that she was a little worried about me. Said something about it not being normal to LIKE driving in the winter.
I told her my only worries were everyone else...
Awwe... just rub it in MTMs! But this weather is why I RARELY COMPLAIN about the heat when we finally get some --;)--!
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidTownMs
Blizzaks are a total godsend. I have them on my car -- like golden rubber, I tell ya!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannon
I highly recommend snow tires. Like Gannon says they actually make winter driving fun and you'll look forward to driving in the snow. The cost is minimal because while you are driving with the snow tires your summer tires are not wearing. And speaking of summer tires, this will allow you to have a better performance summer tire instead of all season tires. How can there be a all season tire unless all of the seasons are the same? Its a bit of hassle to swap them out in the spring and fall, but well worth it. Best to get a cheap set of winter wheels to make it easier. Some places will even store your wheels and tires for you.
I agree snow tires are great. It's best if you're planning on keeping the car, but I have seen a few cars for sale with snow tires included. Also I think Belle Tire offers a storage service, but I don't know the details.
Many years ago, when I had the Audi wagon, I had a full set of winters with the original 15" rims, since I'd upped to sixteens for the spring/summers...and had to drive in January down to Vegas and LA for work. I put the summer tires in the back seat, drove straight south and a bit west to Texas, dropped into a Discount Tire store, and took advantage of their free 'Tire Rotation' service.
Those boys were so confused, they'd NEVER even conceived of a tire for snow...let alone had to handle 'em. When I was telling the manager what I was doing and why, it dawned on me that driving the round trip with all that weight would be wasteful, so I convinced him to hold my tires until I got back for the re-swap.
That must've been early 2002 or '03...because I bought the snows just before I left LA. I was absolutely sure I was the only car driving the LA basin in Blizzaks. VERY carefully, because in the heat those things are like pencil erasers, I'd bet you could scrub off many miles of tread spinning out on hot pavement.
Plus, the change from the OEM tires to the bias-ply winters made for some seriously squishy cornering. THAT is my only complaint about the Blizzaks, but it makes me drive more deliberately the rest of the season!
One problem I've noticed: We all should know that bridges ten to get icy, but we never seem to realize that the road UNDER an overpass is also likely to get icy because it isn't getting warmed by the sun. this is why you often see spun-out cars just after an overpass. We zoom down a highway, it's dry, not iced, then we hit an overpass at 70 and suddenly there is no traction.
SLOW DOWN under overpasses too - especially if they are on a curve
Center Differential Lock is fun. I can push that little button on my old Mazda 323 4WD and immediately I track as if on rails. Take it off the E-way and throw on the sidestreets and I can drive that thing sideways.
Crap.....crap. crap. crap. Next week I'm moving back to the D after being in Scottsdale, AZ for the past 4 years. It was 80 here yesterday. There's no place like home, though......right?
Its cold here...but don't worry, its a dry cold.Quote:
Originally Posted by Armin
Excellent, good schtick!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
Sometimes it's not a matter of people driving too fast. These lake effect snowsqualls can come out of nowhere and instantly reduce visibility to zero in a few seconds and there's no time to react.
Very true. The conditions on the Southfield Freeway down in Dearborn/AP on Saturday were impossible to overcome. Sudden blizzard resulting in mass ice on the highway. People were driving as slow as possible and still getting in bad accidents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Embee
Winter performance tires do indeed have MUCH greater traction on ice than anything this side of studded tires. Surely, studs work even BETTER...for ice-only conditions...but for every other situation, the very porous, softer rubber formed into aggressively-blocked but siped tread gives such control AND roadfeel that they make winter driving a joy.
Until we meet up with someone like you in traffic.
I've used them on three different cars over fifteen years, every one the same result. MUCH safer and more enjoyable winter driving, not merely 'riding'...which is what most people barely do.
Cheers!
That car hauler was scary as heck. I had to take people to the airport from Royal Oak and also took the back roads all the way back. Was a much more interesting day of driving than I had bargained for...when I was in college going back up to MSU one night in a snow storm I spun out on I96 and I've been very, very cautious in bad weather ever since. It's scary though when you are literally going 15 MPG and it seems like a struggle to stay on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
Here, read and learn.
http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/...jsp?techid=116
SE Michigan would be a safer place if everyone had to use winter performance tires between November and March.
Siping, FYI, is those fine cuts/striations across the rubberQuote:
Originally Posted by Gannon
I had my all weather Dunlops siped this summer. I do a lot of driving, some in snow, a lot in rain. They said it would help, hope it does.
These are the best imo:
http://www.nokiantires.com/tyre?id=11949
I've yet to see a car sliding out of control on an ice rink where the zamboni driver had to hit his brakes and swerve to avoid it. I could be wrong, but I don't imagine he'd do too well if that happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
Cars battling Zamboni's, lol. Might make for a good video game. However, if the scenario you describe did happen, the Zamboni driver would have a much better chance avoiding a collision on snow tires than regular tires. They don't make snow tires in winter mandatory in Quebec for no reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMRJim
Wasn't there an ad on the telly years ago with cars driving on a rink with the new winter performance tires? I don't think anyone who has taken Physics would want to challenge a Zamboni, though!
Might not have been Bridgestone Blizzak...might've been one of the followers, perhaps Dunlop or Yokohama.
My Livonia friend is a big fan of those Hankooks...but I just can't get past that name. Curious that Tire Rack doesn't show any of the far-Eastern brands' winter tires, I know some of 'em make winter models...
I'm surprised someone remembers that commercial, if it is the one I'm thinking of, it was for studded snow tires. The first part showed cars sliding around a hockey rink, crashing into the boards. The 2nd part, after they donned studded snow tires, showed them doing doughnuts around a Zamboni.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannon
Huh, you're right. Tire rack no longer lists any of those brand name winter tires. I would love to try a set of these magic winter tires on ice, because quite frankly, I have my doubts. Snow or a mix, yes, frozen ice? I don't know.....
I just remembered Michelin's Artic Alpin tires...forgot about them. That might've been what I had on the Audi, actually. Windstar, too. This might be my first time with Blizzaks, actually.
Here is the first ad I found on a seach of winter tires on a hockey rink.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK-npRlaSYI
Found this. Curious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_racing
I think Penske should start the first North American Ice Racing Series. On Belle Isle. Hell, they can run jetboats on the river when it's iced, too. Just put 'em on those blades the wind-jammers use when it's cold enough on Lake St. Clair.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
It's been a couple of years since the law was passed on mandatory winter tires and apparently there are fewer accidents. I remember how not long ago they used to sell all-season or four season tires here but car critics used to tell folks that was a no-no.
There is also the distinction of ice and snow tires. I picked ice because I do 99% city driving and the worst conditions are icy ones, the highways here are often elevated which increases the risks since they are much colder than pavement on grade.
This reminds me of the time, long ago, when I spun out a VW Beetle on ice, in first gear, traveling as slow as it could go, steering ever so slightly with fingertips only, yet still I spun out.
No damage. No other vehicles around. Smarter drivers stayed home in that storm.
Sometimes it gets so bad that there's just no amount of caution that works other than to stay off the road.
While sudden squalls can and do happen, a lot of the problem is people around here drive like idiots. You got some people who drive way too fast, and then some who drive way too slow. I don't know which is worse. Then you have some people who don't know how to keep their distance.
For me personally, I can't stand the people who linger either right next to me or directly behind. I don't mind driving in the snow so much is I don't trust other drivers.
Yeah, the only time I drive anywhere approaching dangerously in the snow and ice is when I have to get AWAY from those who linger and crowd. On the way back from Ypsi a few Sundays ago, more than a few times my partner noticed me do some aggressive defensive driving moves...questioned the first one, but as she saw it play out she understood.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Brains
I'd say the biggest danger in the snow are those who are unaware of their equipment's and their own limitations. They are easy to spot, unless they do something totally dorky in heavy fog or a whiteout. [[or especially so, like my hifi friend who came to a full stop in the middle of I-75 in the Smokeys on the way home from Atlanta one time, due some f'in' FOG! After I stopped screaming obscenities at him, I calmly asked him if he knew how chain-reaction accidents started...)
The only way to learn how to recover from a slip or spin is to practice, practice, practice in empty parking lots. That is the only way to learn your vehicle dynamics and ability to respond. When I am on the road during inclement weather, I'm testing the road conditions constantly.
Not a big believer in the term 'black ice', that is used by most people to excuse their ignorance and lack of awareness/perception. True black ice comes out of nowhere in conditions not usually encountered due the road and weather at the time...when most people mention the term, it is when EVERYONE should be expecting ice. Just because you didn't see it, doesn't make it black ice.
Rant over.
Cheers!
I got a phone call out of the blue one morning a few months ago, from the youngest brother of my favorite Detroit cop, because the conditions driving to work reminded him of a time I drove him to high school in my '66 Beetle. Over thirty years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimaz
We turned left in front of some traffic, and the back end broke away on glare white ice. Realizing it was too far to recover, I turned the wheels the other way and did a complete 180, without losing momentum. Didn't stop, apparently didn't blink, either. He was impressed enough to not forget.
The Beetle chassis was quite predictable in the snow and ice, and due that extra weight out back had a preciously small angle of skid recovery...lucky with all that traction it was almost never an issue!
I had American F-series radials on the back, down around 20psi, damn thing usually tracked like a tank. Usually. I drove across the islands of Oakman one year all the way from Tireman to Ford Road...in snow more than a foot deep...just to show we could! Miss that Beetle...
Cheers
It seems that when the weather people use the term "snow showers" we often get the snow squalls. Be prepared, expect the worst.
I've run on Yokohama and Hankooks all season tires on many of my cars without issue. Their a standard mid-range and Discount Tire. But then I drove stick shift cars for decades and now I gear down in my automatic and engage over-drive on and off to get the same traction and have had success on snow and ice when I see the ice. And not going too fast!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannon
I never watch or listen to the weather talking heads giving me "the BIG picture". If you really want to know what's going on with the weather, go to http://www.noaa.gov/, put in your zip code, and take a look @ the satellite images for yourself. TV weather, like TV news, is designed to sell commercials and generate revenue for said station.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam
I also run high performance all season tires, [[Pirelli P6, V rated), and have never had an issue. I've been in Northern MI in some of the worst conditions, and never felt out of control. Last Saturday I was out and about @ the height of the snowstorm and feared for my safety. I had several "close encounters of the worst kind". People coming @ me, wide-eyed, brakes locked up, steering to beat the band, and NOTHING'S working. Each encouter was due to taking corners too fast for the conditions @ hand. I also wonder how many people are out there riding around on "baldies".Quote:
Originally Posted by Zacha341
Bunch of baldies are out there due to the economy and other factors... I've noted in the city and 'burbs. You'll see some folk who've purchased cars with 16 - 17 and beyond size wheels - which look cool I suppose - then when those tires wear out and the butchers bill is $350+ each tire! Well per that surprise they drive 'em beyond tread.
I drive a Ford Focus and a Toyota Camry that take standard tires [[my Toy takes 165/15's I think so I can afford my tires, but they are not cheap for anyone! I see those already thin profile 17's bald to heck. Sorta steep when you're looking at $1200 to replace four tires. So they don't.
I drive a Focus SVT with Michelin Pilot Sport Alpin...235-45-17s. She's my own personal rally car in the bad weather! Gannon can confirm!