Long term planning for relocating to Detroit: please help.

Hello, Detroit.

I visited Detroit for a week in 2010 as part of a group presenting at the USSF. I grew up in Western Wisconsin, lived Minneapolis/St. Paul for 10 years, lived in Madison for three years and returned to the Twin Cities after living in Guatemala for six months. I'm 31 now and at the point in my life where I am looking for where I eventually want to put down roots and build community. I've had this in Madison and Minneapolis, but there is something about the flavor of Detroit that calls to me. I also was really inspired by the renewal and community building during my visit. I am interested in being able to purchase a home and perhaps adjacent lots [[for gardening, maybe an apiary, perhaps a carillon tower!) with my savings. I am going to be working and saving money in the Twin Cities for at least the next year and will have the potential to bring income streams with me based on my lines of work.

I want to visit Detroit again with my boyfriend and at least one other friend in the next few months because I know one week [[especially during the USSF) probably isn't enough to gather an accurate impression of the city and I want to get to know the city better as well. I imagine if that goes well, I'll return several times before I actually relocate.

Why I am posting here is because I would be extremely grateful for any advice or pointers in these early planning stages. I know there are houses for $1-$500, but I have pretty severe allergies, and I think all of those would have mold or fire damage. I would want a house that might need cosmetic improvements, but is livable and structurally sound. As for house type preferences, I really like bungalows and anything built before the 1950s.

Any guidance to areas and general pricing would be helpful. I liked Midtown and Woodbridge quite a bit, but didn't have the chance to explore all of Detroit, plus I think the housing is more there than other areas. I'm really curious about Hamtramck. I'm not super fazed by safety as I have lived in some rougher areas of Minneapolis with no problems, and Detroit doesn't seem very dangerous after living in Guatemala. But I would like to be smart and proactive about the neighborhood in regards to violence/property crime as well.

I am resigned to the fact that I will most likely need a car in Detroit, but really prefer to walk or bike whenever is possible. I like farmer's markets, hooping, hot yoga, libraries, eating out [[I'm vegetarian and especially like international food), going see live music, and art exhibits.

Bonus points: I am proficient in English and Spanish and have studied French, German, and Japanese. Is there another language that would be fun or helpful to know in Detroit?

Thanks in advance for any responses, and I can provide any other information that is needed. I have been doing my own research as well, but would like to learn from people who already live in Detroit as well. If you think I'm mistaken about something or see a flaw in my plan, please let me know...

One more thing I will need is access to high speed internet as I may be telecommuting if that changes anything.

In Hamtramck, there is some nice housing stock by St. Florian, the city limits are kinda ruff, Campau has some shopping, a few grocery markets, and restaurants, Hamtramck police have a good response time,very diverse.

I'm not 100% sure on the high speed internet of the areas, but Woodbridge & Corktown sound right up your alley!

I live on the other side of downtown & have no problem with the internet from AT&T Uverse [[the install was another story, but it's fine now!)

you won't be able to find $500 houses in woodbridge or midtown.

you won't be able to find many lots in those areas where you can assemble several lots with a home in move-in condition.

the languages you mentioned will help you with getting employment in automotive fields. if there are any that could be added I would suggest italian, korean, and arabic. Arabic populations are very large in Detroit.

what the heck is hooping??? basketball?

I recommend planning on spending about 50k for a house, to get a very nice place in a good block. It is cheaper to buy a house in good condition than to fix one up.

Thanks for the feedback thus far. I will add Corktown on my list.

I don't expect to find a $500 house, I am willing to pay more and am not tied to any particular area right now. I just know a few neighborhoods that interest me so far. I just am looking for ballparks to start saving towards. I live a relatively simple lifestyle and am good at resource management for goal setting.

I don't need employment in the automotive field. For money I have taught English and worked in healthcare data analysis and contracting and am working on my own consulting business for something else, so I am working to bring income stream[[s) with me.

I was thinking Arabic may be a good one. I had many international students from Saudi Arabia and know there is a large population of Arabic speakers in Michigan. I think Korean is above my threshold for languages, unfortunately. Italian would be super feasible after Spanish and French.

Hooping is hula hooping except with bigger hoops and I even have one that I set on fire.

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Originally Posted by skyl4rk

I recommend planning on spending about 50k for a house, to get a very nice place in a good block. It is cheaper to buy a house in good condition than to fix one up.

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I would rather buy one in good condition and improve it for sure. $50K was my initial ballpark for that after looking on some real estate sites. I was hoping to do it for less, but it is still reasonable. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by GUSHI

In Hamtramck, there is some nice housing stock by St. Florian, the city limits are kinda ruff, Campau has some shopping, a few grocery markets, and restaurants, Hamtramck police have a good response time,very diverse.

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What does "kinda ruff" mean? Violent crime, property crime, not safe to walk at night?

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Originally Posted by jtf1972

I'm not 100% sure on the high speed internet of the areas, but Woodbridge & Corktown sound right up your alley!

I live on the other side of downtown & have no problem with the internet from AT&T Uverse [[the install was another story, but it's fine now!)

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I feel so high maintenance, but it would be a necessity with the work I am planning to do. I didn't want to just assume that all of Detroit had high speed access as I know utilities are out in some places.

Try Rosedale Park [[my neighborhood) or Grandmont. Great houses at great prices, very walkable. We have one of the best walkscores in the city. Here is a link to the local CDC's website:

http://www.grandmontrosedale.com/

It is a very engaged and active community, with great people.

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Originally Posted by Parkguy

Try Rosedale Park [[my neighborhood) or Grandmont. Great houses at great prices, very walkable. We have one of the best walkscores in the city. Here is a link to the local CDC's website:

http://www.grandmontrosedale.com/

It is a very engaged and active community, with great people.

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I've been looking on Walkscore, but hadn't looked at Rosedale Park/Grandmont. I will add it to my list and that's so awesome you have a neighborhood farmer's market. I like the big city ones, but prefer the smaller neighborhood ones on a more frequent basis. Thanks for the recommendation.

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Originally Posted by sea

Thanks for the feedback thus far. I will add Corktown on my list.

I don't expect to find a $500 house, I am willing to pay more and am not tied to any particular area right now. I just know a few neighborhoods that interest me so far. I just am looking for ballparks to start saving towards. I live a relatively simple lifestyle and am good at resource management for goal setting.

I don't need employment in the automotive field. For money I have taught English and worked in healthcare data analysis and contracting and am working on my own consulting business for something else, so I am working to bring income stream[[s) with me.

I was thinking Arabic may be a good one. I had many international students from Saudi Arabia and know there is a large population of Arabic speakers in Michigan. I think Korean is above my threshold for languages, unfortunately. Italian would be super feasible after Spanish and French.

Hooping is hula hooping except with bigger hoops and I even have one that I set on fire.

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I'd like to see that hula hooping with the burning hoop. Sounds pretty cool.

https://vimeo.com/34882649

Well, I don't have any photos or videos of me hooping since my phone was stolen, but my sister was using my fire hoop and made this for me as a birthday present. You get the idea.

When purchasing your house, don't forget to include the property taxes, Detroit's 2.5% personal income tax, the extra utility taxes, and the incredibly high car and home owner insurance in the price of the home. This will help in deciding if you can afford to buy something.

Detroit has the highest property and city income taxes in the state. I believe it's also the only city in the state that can charge a utility tax. It has the highest car insurance prices in the country. Home owners insurance will also be relatively high. Michigan has the highest car insurance rates in the county and Detroit has the highest car insurance rates in the state. You can't drive a car in Michigan without insurance, You can't get a mortgage on a house without getting home owners insurance.

The taxes on a $50000 home in Hamtramk would be $1186 a year, It would cost $1684 in Detroit, and $902 in Royal Oak [[an inner ring suburb I added for comparison)

State of Micigan property tax estimator:

https://treas-secure.state.mi.us/pte...testimator.asp

I hope you understand what you are getting into. A lot of my family lives in Minneapolis and I go there once a year. The worst areas of Minneapolis are mild compared to Detroit. No matter where you are in the city, there will be property crime. The thieves are starting to target the better areas of the city. I read an article about Woodbridge on how there was this investor buying properties and fixing them up. In the same article, the neighbors were talking about how many break ins there are. Walking at night is also not a good idea. Minneapolis has a lot of parks and trails and has a lot more walkable areas than the city of Detroit. I highly suggest renting before buying. Selling a house in Detroit is no easy task.

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Originally Posted by sea

https://vimeo.com/34882649

Well, I don't have any photos or videos of me hooping since my phone was stolen, but my sister was using my fire hoop and made this for me as a birthday present. You get the idea.

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What an interesting hobby. Fun stuff.

I have to agree with Shollin. My girlfriend's brother lives in St. Paul, and when I stayed there for a week last year, he warned me that he lived near a bad part of town. Being the kind of guy I am, that meant that I had to explore the area on foot to see just how "bad" it gets.

Let me tell you, compared to a bad part of Detroit, well... there is no comparison. The worst part of St. Paul reminded me of Mt. Clemens or Hazel Park, which are cities outside of Detroit's borders that don't have nearly the same problems. I went on to develop a similar impression of the bad part of Minneapolis later that week.

For various reasons, the twin cities just don't have the sense of economic hopelessness and despair that you see in pockets of Detroit. That said, I'm actually in the process of planning a move to Hamtramck. While I don't think you'd have worry much about your physical safety in Hamtramck, Midtown, and etc., theft/burglary is a serious issue that requires real awareness to prevent.

I'd also highly vote to rent a house.....no shortage there.......for 3-6 months so you can get a real feel for what everything could entail. Nothing like seeing everything up close and personal before you make the step to purchase.

How about Lafayette Park, Mies VanderRohe townhouses. The era certainly should catch your fancy. No land to speak of though. Here is an example on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Mies-...34525909905148

Another kind of house that appeals to me is Craftsman bungalow. There are good examples in Highland Park, some neighborhoods in Detroit including Grandmont and Rosedale, some areas of Ferndale which is a nice walkable, bikeable community just north of Detroit along Woodward. http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/phot...574786,00.html Neighborhood for this one may raise the hair on your head, though.

Highland Park Craftsman bungalow neighborhoods: http://bbandm.wordpress.com/2010/04/...man-bungalows/

The Elmwood Park neighborhood is just across the Dequindre Cut from its better known [[and much pricier) neighbor, Lafayette Park. For the most part, it consists of a number of coop communities, Hyde Park being the most noted.

http://hydeparkcoop.org/html/gallery.html

I just came across this listing for a real fixer-upper at a true bargain price.

http://www.trulia.com/property/30550...troit-MI-48207

A nice [[to me, anyway) feature of a fixer-upper in a coop is that all the needed work will be on the interior - the coop will have kept up all the external aspects to the neighborhood standards.

Some of the other Elmwood Park coops are North Park, Town Park, and Town Square. Clearly these townhouse communities are not pre-1950 Craftsman bungalows, but they are all well maintained, quiet, within walking/biking range of Eastern Market, downtown, the Riverwalk and Dequindre Cut, multiple churches and a good grocery store. You might, if you care to expand your range of housing choices, consider Elmwood Park.

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Originally Posted by sea

Well, I don't have any photos or videos of me hooping since my phone was stolen, but my sister was using my fire hoop and made this for me as a birthday present. You get the idea.

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Wow your sister is really HOT!!!:cool:

I don't want to be negative but I hope you aren't going to consider Highland Park. If there's one city in Michigan I had to pick not to live in, it would be Highland Park. The city has lost 80% of it's population. It disappeared as quickly as it came. It's really a shame since it had a nice housing stock and was centrally located.

I 100% agree... rent first and see if the real day to day of city is something you really want to commit to.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

Selling a house in Detroit is no easy task.

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Add to that 'slow if any police response' in certain areas.

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Originally Posted by sea

What does "kinda ruff" mean? Violent crime, property crime, not safe to walk at night?

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Often a $500 house is that low for the worst of reasons! Not just a deal ala a steal. Price should not be a determining factor!

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Originally Posted by sea

I don't expect to find a $500 house, I am willing to pay more and am not tied to any particular area right now. I just know a few neighborhoods that interest me so far. I just am looking for ballparks to start saving towards. I live a relatively simple lifestyle and am good at resource management for goal setting.

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Originally Posted by ndavies

Detroit has the highest property and city income taxes in the state. It has the highest car insurance prices in the country.

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Nice tool. Actually Ann Arbor hould have the highest taxes because crap homes there go for 4 to 5 times the cost of crap homes in Detroit with roughly the same millage rates.

Doesn't Phoenix have higher insurance rates? I know they6 are more car dependant and have a much higher theft as well as numbers of people driving uninsured cars.

Ann Arbor's tax rates are 30% lower than Detroit's taxes are. Ann Arbors homestead rate is 45.88 mills. Detroits is 67.34 mills. The only thing you can compare is the tax rate. One of the things that drives down property values is High tax rates. Ann Arbor also has good city services for the taxes they pay and have reasonable hopes of their children going to college. These are also huge factors in the value of a home.

So yes, After you multiply in the value of the home, Ann Arbor resident pay higher taxes per home. The Ann Arbor residents are getting the value they expect out of the local government and are willing to pay much more for homes in those neighborhoods.

Detroit has the problem of absurdly high taxes for incredbly bad city services. It destroys Home values.

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Originally Posted by ndavies

When purchasing your house, don't forget to include the property taxes, Detroit's 2.5% personal income tax, the extra utility taxes, and the incredibly high car and home owner insurance in the price of the home. This will help in deciding if you can afford to buy something.

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I knew the taxes and insurance rates were high, but that you for the concrete information. This is really helpful.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

I hope you understand what you are getting into. A lot of my family lives in Minneapolis and I go there once a year. The worst areas of Minneapolis are mild compared to Detroit. No matter where you are in the city, there will be property crime. The thieves are starting to target the better areas of the city. I read an article about Woodbridge on how there was this investor buying properties and fixing them up. In the same article, the neighbors were talking about how many break ins there are. Walking at night is also not a good idea. Minneapolis has a lot of parks and trails and has a lot more walkable areas than the city of Detroit. I highly suggest renting before buying. Selling a house in Detroit is no easy task.

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I'm trying to understand what I may be getting into and definitely want to visit Detroit a few more times before making any concrete decisions. Minneapolis is super walkable and so is St Paul depending on what area you live in. There are lots of awesome things about the Twin Cities. I don't think I would expect to be able to sell a home I had purchased in Detroit. You are right, renting may be a more viable option initially.

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Originally Posted by nain rouge

I have to agree with Shollin. My girlfriend's brother lives in St. Paul, and when I stayed there for a week last year, he warned me that he lived near a bad part of town. Being the kind of guy I am, that meant that I had to explore the area on foot to see just how "bad" it gets.

Let me tell you, compared to a bad part of Detroit, well... there is no comparison. The worst part of St. Paul reminded me of Mt. Clemens or Hazel Park, which are cities outside of Detroit's borders that don't have nearly the same problems. I went on to develop a similar impression of the bad part of Minneapolis later that week.

For various reasons, the twin cities just don't have the sense of economic hopelessness and despair that you see in pockets of Detroit. That said, I'm actually in the process of planning a move to Hamtramck. While I don't think you'd have worry much about your physical safety in Hamtramck, Midtown, and etc., theft/burglary is a serious issue that requires real awareness to prevent.

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I don't think St. Paul has any truly "bad" areas. Minneapolis is/was a different story and I lived in a neighborhood with frequent drive-bys and carjackings with no problems. I did have my convertible top cut open with a knife for a handful of spare change one time. I don't think the Twin Cities are very dangerous and feel comfortable walking in a lot of areas by myself at night. However, I think Detroit is relatively less dangerous than Guatemala unless there are regular lynchings, dismemberments, kidnappings and the ability to put a hit out on someone for $30 that I am unaware of mixed with almost complete impunity. I would be concerned about my physical safety the most. Things can be replaced, but people can't.

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Originally Posted by mikefmich

I'd also highly vote to rent a house.....no shortage there.......for 3-6 months so you can get a real feel for what everything could entail. Nothing like seeing everything up close and personal before you make the step to purchase.

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Renting is definitely an option and completely reasonable.

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Originally Posted by p1acebo

What an interesting hobby. Fun stuff.

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it's pretty awesome and i have managed not to set myself on fire thus far. :D

People got shot in Detroit over Kool Aid and another guy fired into a crowd because his girlfriend was disrespected. They carjacked a priest, killed a church security guard, and fired into a home killing a baby over a cellphone. There was also the old woman who had her house fire bombed by mistake.

Thanks to everyone for their insight/comments. I'm gonna need more coffee before I can write anything coherent.

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Originally Posted by Shollin

People got shot in Detroit over Kool Aid and another guy fired into a crowd because his girlfriend was disrespected. They carjacked a priest, killed a church security guard, and fired into a home killing a baby over a cellphone. There was also the old woman who had her house fire bombed by mistake.

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I had heard about the Kool Aid one, but the rest are new. Are they gang related or just seemingly random violence?

Just robberies gone bad. The fire bombing I'm not sure. Haven't heard much follow up on that one. Car jackings happen frequently in Detroit. I just read a story about a 10 year old committing a car jacking.

There is a leading article in today's Detroit Free Press which might interest you.

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What kind of house can you buy in Detroit? Median prices below $10,000

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Originally Posted by Lowell

There is a leading article in today's Detroit Free Press which might interest you.

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Here is a GREAT quote from that article.

You can't willy-nilly buy a house in Detroit. You have to know about the neighborhood."