I was in kindergarten/1st grade at Lynch Annex when I first heard of this story.
Judging by comments under the article I truly live in a different world than most suburbanites around here. And I want no piece of it.
Printable View
I was in kindergarten/1st grade at Lynch Annex when I first heard of this story.
Judging by comments under the article I truly live in a different world than most suburbanites around here. And I want no piece of it.
RIP Larry Nevers, a good cop caught in a bad situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by brizee
I am so sick of the race bating in today's culture. Back in my troubled youth I had a strung out crackhead jump me in the Brightmoor neighborhood.. I only wish I would've had a Mag-Light to beat him with after all he had his superhuman crackhead strength and I had my two fist. I don't blame Nevers one bit.. I blame the most blame worthy people all the race baiters like Coleman Young, Jessie Jackson, The "Reverend" Al Sharpton, etc.. People who only see the world out of a prism of color. People like that are the biggest reason Nevers went down. He was White so he musta been "Raaaacissst" [[Rolling my eyes). Not that Green was a super charged Crackhead criminal that tried to disarm him. I wish Detroit would have more police willing to defend the City.. Maybe I would return from my self imposed exile in Lansing to the Motor City. As it is I'm staying where a cop will thankfully still respond to a call in under 24 hrs.
He killed a man for not opening his hand and a jury of his peers sent him to jail accordingly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamkir
He's not a hero he's a disgrace to his profession, and one of the many ugly stains this city has to wear on it's history.
I agree. Who in their right mind defends this guy? He killed Green and although it took a while, he finally got his.Quote:
Originally Posted by brizee
I think it should go without saying that all people should be judged as individuals and noone appreciates being lumped into a group.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid
But there is a segment of society [[white, male, usually older) that I just do not understand. They are usually the quickest to label other people irresponsible, state they need to denounce the wrongdoing of those that share their race or culture, and state racism only exists because black people haven't yet "got over it".
But in the same breath will bend over backwards to defend the indefensible when someone that looks like them does some blatant demonic bullshit.
Yeah, we should judge people on an individual basis [[Except white males of course, they're racists :cool:) .Quote:
Originally Posted by brizee
I can feel your angst. Your feeling that a certain demographic cannot see a reality other than their own. That is a burden. A heavy load that renders folk unable to reach across the gulf that separate young from old and black from white.Quote:
Originally Posted by brizee
but you have a vision. You are a leader.
So lead.
Write an obit for Nevers that can help cross the gulf that separates people from each other. Write a piece that shows you have the will and the ability to touch a side different from your own.
i don't think you will, because I don't think you can.
prove me wrong.
Who defends this guy? Anyone who truly believes in justice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnati_Kid
I don't know Nevers. And I wasn't in the situation he was in.
What I do know is that this was a highly politicized case where truth mattered less than the prejudices of all involved.
Its possible he was a rogue cop who was brutalizing innocents.
Its possible he was a good cop who chose to dive headstrong into a really dangerous world to serve and protect citizens who don't want crack in their hood.
Truth's probably somewhere inbetween.
I don't know the truth. And you likely don't either.
I grew up in that area, which was always a bit rough and it was a further stain to the neighborhood and decent folks trying to strive to stay there. You heard all kinds of things from both sides. From some there was even talk that the whole area was nothing but thieves and dope-heads worthy of a nuclear leveling etc.
Cheering commentary as my parents had property nearby, along with many friends and other family members.
For some this will in some part close a chapter to an event that went very political with many moving parts that seemed to satisfy several agendas.
I wonder why Malice didn't just give it up? You've got to be pretty jacked to loose your life over a gram of cheap coke.
I personally knew Larry Nevers and believe me he was an outstanding police officer. I will not get into the detail involving his case other then to say a lot of politics played into the case. There is much that the public will never know regarding the case. He truly believed in Detroit and served it proudly until that fateful day.
Why didn't they just stop beating him over the head with their flashlight?Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
You think THAT's why he didn't open his hand?Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUguy
Maybe it was rigamortis.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Often, a drugged up person doesn't respond to pain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Green apparently decided what was in his hand was more important to keep concealed than whatever pain was making it past his drug-filled veins.
It doesn't matter what he was holding. He's not the one who made the decision to bash him over the head repeatedly with a flashlight. That's the person who made the decision that ultimately led to Green's death. And that's why that person was charged with and convicted of murder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
Why does it matter why he didn't open his hand. He had a right to due process that was denied.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
Next time I resist arrest on a head full of coke, we'll see how far it gets me. I'll also totally ignore and refuse to cooperate with the police. Of course your results may differ.Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUguy
I never thought of Nevers as simply a racist renegade cop, just as I never thought Green as only a useless crack head. I said once that I'd probably rather have Nevers as a next door neighbor than Green. I don't think Never would attack me without provocation and beat my head in, but I would expect a crack head to break into my house if he lived next door.
Having said that, the case always seemed pretty simple to me. Budzyn and Nevers made an arrest, and overreacted during the arrest, beating a man to death. Green was not a big guy hyped up on PCP, with superhuman strength and pain resistance. He was a crack addict who happened to be a small guy that the two police officers appeared to have under control long before they stopped hitting him. They were tried and convicted and utilized the appeals process afforded them by law. They got new trials and were found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
As far as outside forces influencing the proceedings, there were plenty of outside forces in support of the police officers, as well. The County prosecutors of Oakland and Macomb joined efforts to support the officers, as did media members, such as Rich Fisher of Channel 2.
Overall, a sad chapter in the history of Detroit, with many losers and no winners.
Due process?Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUguy
Due process starts with compliance with the reasonable requests of police officers. When you are being detained by the police, they have a responsibility to treat you properly. And you have a responsibility to comply with reasonable requests. After that, you can take it up with the court. But when you're detained, you comply.
I found it odd that this case got all the attention back when crooked cops were beating, robbing and killing mofos across the city all the time. They were even involved in hits/murders and importing guns and drugs into Detroit. Chief Hart, Sgt James Harris, Bill Rice, etc... But those other cases by these high profiles city officials, cops and kin of the mayor were covered up. It was a joke to see coleman come out and criticize Nevers when coleman's close friends and family were out there importing coke, selling crack and dealing in guns on the streets.
In the OP I stated I was really too young to get all the specifics of the case at the time, but this is 99.99% my feelings on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor City Sam
Back in the day, I spoke with 2 police officers that were called to a building break in. The perp, jacked up on what later was identified as PCP, decided to run down a flight of stairs and attack the 2 police officers with a stick. After several shouts to the perp, they aimed and fired, no effect. 6 revolver shells, and a 9 round clip later, he finally landed @ their feet, after grabbing one of the officers. Malice Green was no saint. Budzyn and Nevers no sinners. It was a horrible tragedy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Motor City Sam
Are you serious? Police officers are not authorized to use deadly force just because you are not in compliance with their orders. That's ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
Yeah, PCP can make monsters out of ordinary people, but it's important to remember that Green wasn't on PCP. A crackhead is not the same as a PCP user.Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
I haven't heard anyone claim that Green was a saint, but saying Budzyn and Nevers were no sinners implies they did nothing wrong. I can't agree with that. I do agree that it was a horrible tragedy.
If the order is to protect themselves or others, they can.Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed
Drop that gun, or I'll shoot.
Their not issued service revolvers for decoration. About the only time they can use deadly force is when you don't comply.
Come out with your hands up, or I'll request a tribunal to discuss due process.
I liked Judge Dredd too but it wasn't a documentary.
So in your view, Malice Green not opening his hand warranted deadly force?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
So you're agreeing that what you said sounds fucking ridiculous, no?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
If I remember this case correctly, Nevers stated that Green tried to get his gun.Quote:
Originally Posted by ccal
So while his one had was closed around a piece of crack, the other was free to reach for the officers gun all while having his head caved in by a flashlight. I don't know about you but if my head is being cracked open, my natural reaction is to try and fend off the blows with my hand, that's just me of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
Not blasted on coke or crack or PCP or whatever. Natural reaction is to know you're outnumbered, overpowered, and surrender. Un-natural reaction is "I can take him".Quote:
Originally Posted by ccal
His head wasn't cracked open. Doctor's reports stated he had no skull fractures, brain swelling, or concussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by ccal
They killed a man they didn't need to kill. That's disgusting. Defending it is also disgusting.
I will qualify this by saying I was never raised to repeat, "thank you sir, may I have another?"
Frank Rizzo is alive and well ...
Whats disgusting is when crack dealers spray bullets into a house and a little girl sleeping on the couch takes one to the head.
Kill everyone, just to be safe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
i thought that was DPD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
Reading the comments [[yeah I know) today was so disappointing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Detroitnerd
It broke completely along race lines, with one or dissenting voices.
This place has not changed in a hundred effin years.
"Stop, or I'll say stop again"Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
What's sad about this is if, today, it was a guy who "looked like" a terrorist who wouldn't open his hand, a lot of people would laud the police for taking him out because "it could have been a bomb or biological weapon."Quote:
Originally Posted by ccal
Did Walter Budzyn die? For some reason I thought Larry Nevers was already dead.
How about when a member of a raid team [[ with TV cameras rolling ) shoots into a house and kills a young child sleeping in the Living room? Is that any less disgusting?Quote:
Originally Posted by Downriviera
As someone recently answered when questioned about the circumstances surrounding the death of her employee, "What difference at this point does it make?"
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by ccal
Deadly force requires more.
I wasn't there, so I don't know whether deadly force was required.
I'm quite sure I don't know what happened. And I'm quite sure that no one else does either.
I'm also quite sure that people have little idea of the risk to officers of the drug war.
What I find disgusting is that 5 qualified medical examiners determined Malice Green did not die from blows to the head, the mayor went on national television and called the cops murderers, the police chief said they would convict them, denied their request to have the case tried outside of Detroit, had a jury that was mostly black, used witnesses who convicted cocaine users and previously arrested by Nevers, and showed Malcom X movie to the jurors.
So the system was flawed because they were convicted but when others are sent away because of this same system? I don't understand the significance of the Malcolm movie, is that movie somehow racially charged to where it would make the jurors feel some type of way after watching it? The Malcom X movie I watched[[Spike Lee version) wouldn't make me feel some type of way towards people of another ethnicity, it would make me feel some type of way toward my own people because that who killed Malcolm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shollin
Well the system worked and they got what they had coming to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
You beat me to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by softailrider
Also, I believe the Spike Lee version of Malcom X came years after the Green murder.
The "it" Hillary was referring to were Susan Rice's remarks on the Sunday talk shows, not the deaths of the four Americans. Read or listen to the entire quote, not the out of context bits and pieces that you heard from Sean Hannity or Rush Limbaugh. And if Congress really wants to know why Susan Rice said what she said, why don't they call her in and ask her?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeg
But I digress...
Some years ago, I read an interesting take on the Malice Green case in a book called "Racial Situations" by John Hartigan. The book examined the lives of white people who lived in three different Detroit neighborhoods in the early 1990s. One of these neighborhoods was Briggs [[now called North Corktown), which is adjacent to the neighborhood where Malice Green was killed. Several of the poor Appalachian whites Hartigan interviewed had had run-ins with Budzyn and Nevers. They never doubted that the police officers were guilty of murdering Malice Green.
I just went and looked it up. The film was released in 1992, the same year Malice Green was killed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Django
I never heard anything about Malcolm X being showed and it sounds like one of those rumors that get repeated and repeated and eventually gets repeated as fact and here is why. Malcolm X was released in November of 1992, the same month the incident happened, the trial started in June 1993, back then I don't remember movies being available on video cassette in 7-8 months after a theatrical release date. I could be wrong though but I'm going try and find out.
That would be a nice sympathy ploy if these weren't grown men who had a career choice and weren't forced to do something horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Mouch
Here is the Appeal info. It recounts several reasons why both convictions were overturned.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/mi-suprem...t/1177921.html
yes, the film was shown, but only to the Budzyen jury. Remember, they were tried together, but had separate juries. It is an interesting read. The conflicting corner reports, the coroner who was fired for saying he was pressured into his results ...
by the way, the coroner sued, won $2.4 million for wrongful dismissal. The reason the City gave for firing him was that his work was shoddy and he was mentally unbalanced.
A lot of emotion in this thread, the same stuff repeated over and over.
We have to move forward. There were over 400 murders in Detroit last year, why dont we concentrate on that.
I think that attitudes towards those with different opinions can be improved by discussion. Beats beatings. This is part of moving forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by kenp
3 pages in and not ONE person has brought up this angle?
The "War on Drugs" has been a monumental failure. This is a perfect example on how the laws that make drugs illegal do more harm than the actual drugs themselves. Malice Green and the officers involved all had their lives destroyed one way or another because of this incident. Was a little rock of crack worth it?
While you don't want to blame the police for "doing their job", you can't help but think what a waste of all lives involved this was. With all the actual real crime like arson and murder in the city, why were the police so concerned over some crackhead walking down the street on a possession charge?
I know a lot of people with drug problems and I'm sure Malice Green wasn't a saint or a scholar. At the same time, when you criminalize things that aren't real crimes, you still create real criminals. Incidents like this are just unfortunate blow-back of dumb policies. I have zero respect for Malice Green, but if I had to choose, I'd take his side.
If I was on the jury I would have found those officers guilty as well, and I'm white.
RIP Larry.
I'm sure since Sunday you truly know exactly how guilty or not guilty you really were.
Was he Starsky or Hutch?
I haven't heard anyone claim that Green was a saint.[/QUOTE]
The folks who made a shrine to him might disagree.
http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
The Malice Green mural is gone.
Mourn/celebrate how you see fit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honky Tonk
A-fricken-men.Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUguy
Ding Dong the wicked cop is DEAD! Let God judge his soul.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brizee
love the statement from the artist to the effect of "i wish the green family had cared enough to preserve the mural"
sorry... they are off enjoying the bounty of their millions in lawsuit winnings and could care less about a mural....
The ghetto monument honoring a drug dealer is finally gone.
now he can paint a real monument to green.
no longer mere grafiti, a memorial of police brutality.
I would make Malice's likeness even more like Jesus. Maybe add a crown of thorns and a crucifix. With a tribute slogan. How about something like "Sell drugs to residents and kids, destroy the neighborhood , NO police reprecussions!" REALLY make him a hero for all to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by compn