Did the citizens vote for the pension funds leadership. Ya know, those people that have completely mismanaged the pension funds. Funny that they are absolved of all responsibility.
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Are the abandoned buildings, malfunctioning street lights, insufficient DFD to actually follow up on crime also bullshit? You just supported by concern perfectly. I'll paraphrase your post, "Fuck the residents, just don't touch my pension."
I certainly hope you don't understand why my sympathy with the pensioners dissipates with every post like yours.
Unsustainable pensions, along with corruption and gross mismanagement have been draining the city of the funds it needs to fight and prevent crime. Pensions are only a part of that puzzle, but a significant part. Pensions have had an impact on the services provided to Detroit residents, including crime fighting and prevention.
Keep in mind that many folks here don't want to see pensioners get screwed, but it's the reality of the situation. Detroit residents have been getting screwed for years so that pensioners can collect their benefits, so that the city can continue to operate inefficiently, and so that crooks like Kwame and the gang can fund their criminal enterprise.
It's amazing that some folks have the audacity to say that you're evil if you don't offer any sympathy to the Pensioners, yet the Pensioners haven't offered any type of sympathy to the 700,000 citizens of Detroit who are receiving an absolutely deplorable level of services. There was one particular person in a thread about streetlights who callously said something along the lines of "Why not just turn off all the streetlights!? The city's dead anyway!"
I think that we should bill former Detroiters for their share of the retiree benefits and pensions. If you lived in Detroit from 1960 to 1990, you shouldn't be off the hook for paying your fair share just because you moved to the suburbs.
Everybody wants to shit on Detroit for not "paying our bills", but what about the 800,000 people who moved out of the city over the last 30 years? Why don't they have to help pay for the retirees who provided services for them?
The retirees aren't getting shafted by Detroit, they are getting shafted by the hundreds of thousands of FORMER Detroiters who left the city and shirked their debts. The taxes are much lower and the services are better in a new suburb like Canton or Auburn Hills, because there are no retirees collecting benefits from a suburb that didn't exist 30 years ago.
Former Detroiters and city retirees like to accuse the city of screwing them out of benefits, but they don't realize that they have screwed themselves. When 60-70% of the residents and businesses flee the city, and are no longer paying into the system that supports their benefits, this is what happens.
The lure of lower taxes and better services is very attractive, but there is a price to be paid for that.
Don't blame the city or current Detroiters for your benefit reductions, because we pay more for retiree benefits than anybody else, blame the former Detroiters who left the city, and don't pay anything into the system.
Update to the story as of 10/30... comment section is pretty wild!
http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23...ealth-benefits
No.
Pensions are not sustainable. That's why many of the evil suburban communities have long left them in the dust.
Detroit cannot be a "Cash for Life" lottery ticket for everyone that works there. It's highly unfortunate that pensioners aren't going to get what they were promised and what they depend on. However, Detroiters aren't getting what they depend on; basic city services, police protection, fire protection, timely EMS responses.
Detroiters have been suffering for many years that have turned into decades.
Creditors are going to take a bath in a bankruptcy.
Active city workers have been laid off, have had pay reduced, and have reduced benefits. Active city workers are now getting paid much less, but working even harder. They are making tremendous sacrifices.
I strongly disagree with people who suggest that pension liabilities, one of the main drains on the city, should remain unscathed while everyone else suffers and doesn't get what they were promised.
If we don't reduce pension benefits, the accounts will run out, the checks will bounce, and pensioners would be left out to dry.
Keep in mind too that these unsustainable pension benefits were demanded by the unions that represented the pensioners. Any attempt to introduce sustainability is fought fiercely by the very people that would benefit from a stable, predictable retirement.
Pensions are a horrible idea that need to no longer be offered. When someone retires, a company should no longer have to pay them a dime. Retirements should get their strength from investments in 401k plans and savings. Healthcare should become a single-payer system. These things would enable more stable retirements.
They are going away... it was unsustainable on many levels, and the moneys collected over the years was often diverted. So it's best you put your future moneys into something more sustainable. This is but another bureaucratic disaster; a firestorm heading off to other cities as the remaining baby-boomers, and the tier below them [[who still may have received promises of a pension) retire. And if you're injured early in your career, as with the fire fighter, you're toast too.
However pensions work out for those currently or about to receive them in CoD, I hope we have learned our lesson that you can't attach obligations to an unknown future. All contributions to someone's compensation should be made in the present. Put money in a 401K & Medical Savings Acct for the employee to manage themselves. No debt to the city.
You, my friend, don't know what you're talking about. You don't know me, and you probably don't know Ray, so you presume too much with the above statement. You sound pretty selfish, maybe a bit jealous that between Ray and myself, we have given Detroit approximately 65 or 70 years of our lives...and, not behind a desk. We both were on the mean streets of Detroit protecting and serving those very residents that you say we don't give a shit about....what have you done for Detroit?
So, while I know you don't like me, why don't you shut up about things you know nothing about.
Uh, excuse me...I lived and worked for Detroit for 50 plus years and paid Detroit City income taxes every one of those years and I paid my property taxes every year, on time. I receive a pension from Detroit and pay Federal taxes on that....how much of a sacrifice do you want from those of us who gave more than our fair share? Maybe, instead of blaming retirees for being "greedy", look at the real cause for Detroit's demise. Thug KK raped and pillaged the city for years, his friends and family screwed you, the residents who are now blaming retirees for wanting what was a condition of our employment. The pension and healthcare was in our contract from the day I signed on..I didn't DEMAND anything.
CLA, you and Ray have been crystal clear about how you feel about the current residents and the indifference to the lack of services.
There's no jealousy on my end. I'm still well on track to retire in my 50s through savings in my 401k, Roth IRAs, IRAs and other investment.
I know plenty about Ray and yourself from your posts and your indifference to the current 700,000 residents so save your high road bullshit for those that will believe it.
But.....if you want to lump yourself in with Ray, bear in mind he is the same person that has made such wonderful comments such as "Michigan is magnificent! Too bad it has Detroit for a sewer" or "Surprise, surprise, Black folks in Detroit don't like white folks. And that's all okay. But let it be the other way around, and.............in response to articles in the news or freep.
I have a feeling that from your posting history you agree with those sentiments. But hey, those people are on the hook for your pension shortcomings.
You are way off base! I think I have read most of Ray's comments on a number orf different threads here on DetroitYes...I have never read anything from Ray stating what you accuse him of saying above. I have never made any disparaging remarks about Detroit residents or made any racial remarks. If you can find them, please feel free to share them.
I have a hard time believeing you about your "401k, Roth IRA'S, etc." but have at it jt1.
Your only defense is to play the race card. Up against a wall, with nothing else to say, play it. Unfortunately, it gets you nowhere.
This thread began about Dougie and the rotten way Detroit is treating him and others who are disabled because of their employment with Detroit. I am sick to my stomach and ashamed of those who have made that decision to cut him off at the knees...especially when, because of his dedication to Detroit, fighting fires and saving life, limb and property for Detroiters, he has already been cut in half physically and has no other options now. If you want to continue the argument about how us current and former workers in Detroit don't give two shits about the residents, do it somewhere else.
Reading comprehension my friend. I stated these were comments he made in response to articles in the local papers, not here. His comments there are certainly different than they are here.
Why is that, I invest about 30K a year. I live frugally and plan that SS will not exist when I am older. It will likely be later 50s but, even with the economic downturn I am ahead of my plan. I realize the concept of saving is hard for you to understand but I have grown up in a generation where the concept of being taken car of through SS or pensions is not a reality and I have planned and set my life style accordingly.Quote:
I have a hard time believeing you about your "401k, Roth IRA'S, etc." but have at it jt1.
You lost me on the race card. Where have I played that? Are you referencing the quote of Ray's? It is nothing more than a simple example of how he views current residents. Now, granted, I am white so Ray likely would see me differently.Quote:
Your only defense is to play the race card. Up against a wall, with nothing else to say, play it. Unfortunately, it gets you nowhere.
I agree he should be taken care of however the city simply can't afford it. This is where the state or federal gov't should be working with the city to ensure that those that truly need the help/support get it. No blood left in the Detroit turnipQuote:
This thread began about Dougie and the rotten way Detroit is treating him and others who are disabled because of their employment with Detroit. I am sick to my stomach and ashamed of those who have made that decision to cut him off at the knees...especially when, because of his dedication to Detroit, fighting fires and saving life, limb and property for Detroiters, he has already been cut in half physically and has no other options now.
I was unaware that you had the ability to dictate what discussions should be on this board and how they should go. We are two people with clearly different opinions however neither of us have the right to tell someone not to post due to a difference in opinion.Quote:
If you want to continue the argument about how us current and former workers in Detroit don't give two shits about the residents, do it somewhere else.