Maybe don't speak for them then, kthx.
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Nobody expects the forum police!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uprjmoSMJ-o
You know, there is one huge upshot for a curb-running streetcar. By placing the streetcar tracks along the curb, that means...[[wait for it)...a future light rail line from the suburbs could run downtown in the median.
That is, if Rick Snyder, the Legislature, and the leaders of the region ever get their heads out of their asses.
Lol, I hope I am catching your sarcasm here.
A way more unrealistic option would be keeping the streetcar, expanding it into a more comprehensive local system, and constructing a subway under Woodward, and making into the first leg of a regional mass transit system akin to BART, DC Metro or Marta. But as the popular slogan in May of 68 read: Be Realistic, Demand the Impossible.
lol.... alrighty then! ;)
Good point GP!
DN... I know it sounds petty to have the parade on Woodward... but Devin and Carmen are much more photogenic on Woodward... :p I know that the floats could probably go down one side of center median... but my niece was exiting I-75 onto Mack 2 years ago [[a month before the parade)... and she was struck by an unwieldy float who didn't yield the right of way.... lol... [[true story!).
Actually, I'm not being sarcastic at all. Perhaps a bit overly optimistic, but not sarcastic.
I think a streetcar system would work just fine as a local service, particularly within the Grand Boulevard loop. Kind of like Portland, or San Francisco Muni, or the new SLUT [[tee hee) in Seattle. Ultimately, I think a regional [[meaning city-and-inner-suburbs) light rail system is necessary, with regional rail service on existing freight tracks to the distant suburbs [[and Flint, Ann Arbor, etc).
The existence of a curb-running streetcar would also mean that a future light rail line along Woodward could have faster service between Midtown and Grand Circus. Think express/local service between light rail/streetcar.
I know I'm dreaming here. But what the hell?
Improving transit sounds great. Are you willing to pay for it? Portland implemented a regional sales tax. Lets get the Regional Transit Authority passed and then create some dedicated funding for transit. Our current system is grossly underfunded. Maybe we can all get our heads out of our asses, and tell our Senators and Reps to pass the RTA bills, and push for a funding ballot measure. Encourage your family members to call too!
A street car from New Center to Downtown in the current design probably can't be expanded on. I don't mind having the People Mover two but at least have it connect to a regional plan with dedicated funding.
Let's stop MDOT from wasting money with the expansion of I-94 and tell them we want transit instead.
http://www.detroityes.com/mb/showthr...it-s-Future%29
Some people on this blog had said that a train that runs from Jefferson to 8mile down Woodward was a train to nowhere. I totally disagree. The people mover is a train to nowhere for it didn't go to the New Center Area. Had the People Mover been built on the ground instead of elevated it would had been less expensive to construct and ran futher into New Center or beyond. Whoever were the planners, developers, and investors of this project didn't use common sense on this project. I feel that a small train or trolley LIKE car should be used for the 3 miles. In the middle and not over to the side. Penske and others probably wanted to build the tracks in the middle but was having trouble from the city to do it
Short answer? Because it's not part of anything resembling an overall regional solution to the massive lack of transit options here...other than it happens to be located on a major thoroughfare.
Its going to be the second downtown circulator mode of transit built in Detroit and [[if past is prologue) we still will have no way to actually feed it for another generation or two
I don't doubt your point that Trolley/downtown circulatory modes of transit pump up investment along the lines, however, that is only if people are riding the transit to begin with.
Look, very few people that aren't already riding the bus are going ride this because it goes from nowhere to nowhere. Yes that's generalizing...but c'mon, not one car is going to come off the Lodge or I75 or I94 or 696 after this is built. No one not immediately on the line will benefit from it's implementation and frankly, if it's going to be the curb running, in traffic, stop as often as a bus line that the Gilbertonians want... it's going to be indistinguishable from a bus.
The problem that isn't being solved...that could be solved if the Gilbertonians REALLY cared about transit and not a vanity project....would be to get the bus system to function and stop it from being an option of absolute last resort.
DDOT and SMART need to be combined. Detroit needs to give up it's "jewel" and the 'burbs need to understand black people are going to ride the bus north of 8 mile.
Here's what I want my region to be able to do- which it will be not one iota closer to being able to do after spending a few hundred million on this line: I want to be able to leave Metro Airport by bus, LRT, BRT...whatever... and get somewhere close to my east side, inner ring home [[a distance of 25 miles) in something approaching a reasonable amount of time. Not 4 hours, five changes, and three different modes of transportation...if they show up or are even running that day.
Further, I'm not asking for door to door service for everywhere I may conceivably need to go. I'm not demanding NYC or Chicago level of service out of the gate. I'm asking that if I use mass transit in this region, I can get reasonably close to my destination in Detroit and at the very least, the inner ring burbs in a reasonable amount of time and reliably. Again, I don't care if it's by bus, LRT or fucking rickshaw as long as IT WORKS.
My biggest problem with this boondoggle is that instead of fixing the problem of BASIC delivery of BASIC service, we look to solutions to problems we don't have. We don't need another downtown circulator, WE NEED A FUNCTIONING REGIONAL SYSTEM.
After we get a reliable and functioning network of buses, LRT or BRT [[or whatever) THEN we can worry about how to move people around downtown.
At the VERY LEAST, have a regional plan. A real one. Not a piecemeal, hodge podge of half way executed portions of plans all in the name of "doing something" or "not letting the perfect get in the way of the good".
Marchionne ponies up for light rail:
Quote:
Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne today pledged to support the privately-backed Woodward Avenue light-rail project, committing $3 million over five years for Chrysler to sponsor one of the stations on the 3.3-mile route from downtown Detroit to New Center.
Marchionne made the pledge in a private meeting with Quicken Loans chairman and M-1 Rail backer Dan Gilbert, following a morning event marking Chrysler’s deal to lease two floors of space and move 70 people into the former Dime Building downtown, now renamed Chrysler House.
http://www.freep.com/article/2012043...ort-United-Way
Here's my take. Bailey, you are right, this trolley is NOT for you. I think that the business backers pushing for this line are doing so because it will eventually help their bottom lines. I disagree that this is a downtown circulater simply because it leaves downtown and rather goes somewhere that someone who is already downtown wouldn't walk. While it is true that this short line will not reduce overall freeway commutes per day from the suburbs, anything short of the massively expensive and politically impossible [[in the current climate) system that you described will not satisfy those goals either.
A short line from downtown to new center will continue to increase interest and convenience for those who LIVE in downtown, midtown, new center, and everywhere in between. This is its purpose, to further incentivize and speed up the revitalization of Detroit's core.
See, here is where we disagree. IMHO every successful effort to revitalize Detroit, whether it be to improve transportation, retail, crime, schools, etc. helps the whole region, not just Detroit. Why you ask? Because the suburbs are Detroit too, despite what our arbitrary lines and the legal form of Home Rule tell the residents. To "outsiders" we are all Detroit. When a new tech or engineering firm considers Warren or Troy, its not because its in Southeast Michigan, its because its Detroit. I believe the saying is something like: "A rising tide lifts all boats."
These arguments against "regional" money being spent to revitalize things in the city are short-sighted, there are numerous secondary and tertiary benefits to the entire region whenever its core becomes more attractive.
The same argument could be used at the state level whenever someone in Traverse City pays their state income taxes and some of those funds are spent on expanding I-94...
I don't disagree with the sentiment. Well, I slightly disagree. No matter how logical you may think you're being, the average outstate yokel or exurban denizen will not object to road money being spent state wide as they view roads as part of the general state responsibility and something they may have a use for....however, a trolley for a tiny section of a road in Detroit will not be viewed the same. Money for this project will be viewed as good money after bad or just an outright theft of tax money to pour down the rat hole that is Detroit.
If you're going to sell something as a "regional" asset and ask it gets paid for regionally, it better be easily demonstrated to serve the region. Amorphous concepts about what a better Downtown Detroit could mean to a population that rarely, if ever, goes to the city will not sell this project to them.
Again, I AM NOT DISAGREEING that regional transit is long over due, that the lack of it is a huge problem, and that the best place to start a regional system is arterial roads like Woodward. I am frustrated that this is neither a regional solution nor one that even works to improve the transit in the CoD. I'm frustrated that it's impending failure will be used by exurban and outstate yokels [[who control the state's purse) as an example of why Transit doesn't work here.
Which one is longer. The M1 line, or the Boblo Island train line? :)
If the M-1 Rail and the Bus Rapid Transit plans for Metro Detroit are implemented at the same time, suburnanites' may likely accept the project. Everyone sees transit improvements.
The only other issue is a coherent RTA, [[Regional Transit Authority). Hope the Govenor gets going on this soon...
id hate for this to turn into just another people mover [[by that i mean it stays 3 miles long), if we are lucky enough to have this succeed then they might extend it out at least to 8 mile and maybe the suburbs will take it from there and extend it even more so